Defensive Strength Underpins First Win of the Year

For me, the only thing that has changed over recent months is that we scored and hung on for the win. The overall performance was pathetic but the main thing is we got the points.

It was not a "pathetic" performance. It wasn’t particularly good overall but that didn’t matter – it got the job done.

Most Blues agree that we just needed to win and that there is clearly an issue of confidence that is gradually being eased with each positive result.

Please try and maintain some reasoned perspective or just refrain from commenting for now.

’Nuff said.

Dogged, determined, basic but a well-earned win against a confident team in top form playing at a noisy home ground. Palace created two clear chances in 90 minutes, we could have scored 3 in the last ten minutes. Job done and I’m delighted.

By the way, a trend I’ve noticed on the live forum is posters criticising the players and RM relentlessly but not commenting when we score a goal. Curious indeed...

Anyway, onwards to Liverpool and Chelsea and four more points in the bag.

The two pluses from this horrendous run have been the emergence of Besic and Robles. Besic looks like he’s got everything to develop into a top class central midfielder over the next few seasons. Robles is starting to play with more confidence and somewhat surprisingly is starting to dominate his box on crosses. He’s still got a way to go but I wouldn’t be putting Howard back in the team.

Early days but one of the pluses at the moment for me is Joel Robles. He doesn’t get much praise on here. I was worried when he came in based on previous performances but possibly having a run of games helps. It would be great to see him prove the doubters, including me, wrong.

From following the live forum it also seemed like some of us were 1-2 mins behind others feeds.

As Lyndon has alluded to, there’s a feeling from some fans that they were almost disappointed at the win as it meant Martinez remains in post. (Although I recall Mike Walker getting sacked after registering his first win, against WHU in November?)

I tried to watch how Besic played, and was really impressed. He seems able to play the defensive midfield role or a more forward role with equal comfort, and has a range of passing. Bear in mind he can also play at CB and we have a versatile player there, hopefully one who will blossom in years to come.

Yes it was a bit scrappy, but Palace had won four on the bounce, and a lot better teams than us have/will gone/go there this season and come away with nothing.

A team with little confidence playing a team that was full of it. Much more balanced, no signs of players not playing for the manager, and three vital points.

Keeper still makes me nervous, but hopefully the start of better things to come... "hopefully".

Tim has been a good keeper in the past and that shouldn’t be forgotten but Robles has been the better performer this year and sticking with him could save the club a fortune.

He has been wrongly judged on one nervy performance at Arsenal in the cup last year as no good but with game time has the physical attributes and agility to become a really good player for us.

Although you say we were more balanced I think we are far from being balanced. When we lost the ball going forward (which happened a lot), more often than not there would be Mirallas, Naismith and McGeady all ahead of the ball and out of position.

Palace are not a good side but a better side will exploit that space in quick counter attacks (RS?) and cause us problems. None of them are natural midfielders and for me that means we are unbalanced. But I’ll take the result and hope the penny might eventually drop with Martinez.

Box: Cardboard; desk clearing for the use of, still unused in the corner... for now.

Shame we can’t have different opinions but if we’re only allowed upbeat type posts then nothing I can do.

If you think the Palace game was good then that’s your opinion. As I’ve said the only thing that matters was the 3 points how we got them is obviously open to opinion.

The players looked happier with the tactics as we defended and attacked as a unit using two wingers backed up by their full backs; it also allowed more creativity from our midfielders. We fought hard for that victory... keep that up in the derby game and we will give a good account of ourselves.

I would suggest you keep posting. Difference of opinions are what makes this site interesting. I think it’s all about our own perceptions of how we would like to see our team perform. I also suspect there are differences in opinions amongst those supporters who go to the game and see the full picture and those who don’t..

I see about two games a season at Goodison so am not in best position to comment fully on performances and it’s even harder watching the game on TV from behind the sofa.

A win was more important than the performance. As someone else said, you can’t expect the boys’ form to drastically change, it’s going to take time for their confidence to return.

The derby next and if we apply the same dogged attitude and have a bit more composure in front of goal, then we can win. I want Martinez to prove me wrong, it’s his team, tactics and results that have turned me against him. But I’m always open-minded enough to admit I got it wrong and should have kept the faith.

These players showed li ast season what they can do, it would be nice to see a repeat of that and win more than we lose for the rest of the season.

The fact that Liverpool will come to attack and the game will open up is crucial.What a lot of our fans fail to recognise is that because of the stunning football we played last season virtually al of our opponents now park the bus they play us.We just cant find a way around it.

My worries about Saturday is the Stevie G factor,Sturridge coming back and the two or three passengers we carry every game.
McGeady,Naismith are shocking and now Mirallas doesnt want to know.We need Ross back and hopefully James McCarthy.

The last thing we need right now is our annual Derby beating by 3 or 4 goals.
Gerrard saying goodbye to Merseyside Derby games with his usual brace.

That I could not take.

I know that there are still a number of posters on here who have been so brain-washed into the cult of Roberto that they simply refuse to accept any criticism of him but I though that this site was about free and open debate.

Rather than being upset by John Keating’s ’hyperbole’, I’m far more worried about the hyperbole of Roberto Martinez. Let’s get one thing straight though, all of us are desperate for Everton to win every game. The fact that is that a lot of us are angry that the casual, disorganised, arrogant attitude of the manager has been allowed to permeate through this season from the pre-season debacle through to his increasingly bizarre utterings in the media.

His comments this week about the fact that January wasn’t the time to improve the squad (possibly a fair point in itself) was then swiftly followed in the next sentence about how he’d got those improvements done last summer when, the reality is that he added 2 players above last year’s squad in Besic and Eto’o, one of whom he has subsequently let go. Yes, he singed Barry and Lukaku on permanent deals too, but that simply allowed us to ’stand-still’ and Atsu for Gerard Deulofeu could also not be described as an improvement either.

His comments abut how satisfied he had been about our performances over the recent bad run and his other statements about ’proper Evertonians’ were also bizarre.

Anyway, I say "Well Done, Everton on finally winning" ... but let’s allow John the right to post on here.

That’s 5 unbeaten now, confidence is slowly coming back. Beat the shite next week and kick on our season.

I didn’t get the impression that you were being told you couldn’t have a different point of view but I feel that, perhaps inadvertently, your post mirrored a very worrying and dispiriting trend on TW.

It seems that with the exception of a handful of posters everything is geared to a constant diatribe and bilious criticism of certain players, the manager and BK and the board. Much of this is increasingly vicious, personal and borderline libellous.

I am admittedly fairly new to the site but the last 12 months has seen the forums become a very unpleasant place to visit. God knows what posts are kept off the site!

I believe in free speech and football and Everton would be a blander place without diverse views... but when does a point of view become a vendetta?

Much of the season has been incredibly frustrating and we have performed poorly often it seems whilst following a slow and turgid style of play bereft of confidence. It is this that causes people to vent their spleen and frustration becomes bile.

Yesterday was a much needed step forward... let’s enjoy it and look for positives before applying adjectives chosen to fit a specific mindset and a fixed view of the club.

This is not an overt criticism of any particular poster but a genuine and sincere observation of a growing malaise. Fair and balanced criticism definitely... but at what point do we stop being advocates of a solution but rather part of the problem?

To say he is worthy of keeping his place is an understatement and I hope his improvement continues which could turn him into the goalkeeper Evertonians appreciate.

Sorry, Tim, but I think it’s time for you to mosey on into the sunset.

Hmm, how would you describe that approach in a concise way... Keep it tight and nick one? ;-)

Let’s hear what everyone has to say – it’s about football for goodness sake.

OK, let’s go mad and have a full Yevtushenko Poem just to keep the cultural quality of TW up to scratch. Here we go:

Lying to the young is wrong.
Proving to them that lies are true is wrong.
Telling them
that God’s in his heaven
and all’s well with the world
is wrong.
They know what you mean.
They are people too.
Tell them the difficulties
can’t be counted,
and let them see
not only
what will be
but see
with clarity
these present times.
Say obstacles exist they must encounter,
sorrow comes,
hardship happens.
The hell with it.
Who never knew
the price of happiness
will not be happy.
Forgive no error
you recognise,
it will repeat itself,
a hundredfold
and afterward
our pupils
will not forgive in us
what we forgave.

Up the Blues.

But it was not a pathetic performance, particularly against a side on a good run. The defence does seem to be sorting itself out and we did create chances on the counter as the game progressed. That I suspect is how the rest of the season will play out. Keep it tight and play on the counter. A more confident Atsu on the back of his ACN adventures could make a difference in this respect.

Yesterday’s performance was EXACTLY what was required to get this side back on course. Martinez cannot blindly follow his mantra of defence being secondary to attacking football. Defence always comes first.

The buck always stops with the manager, but individual mistakes have killed us this season (the stats back that up) so first and foremost, we need to cut those out. Whether that’s due to a falling out in the dressing room, or poor tactics, it’s up to the manager to sort it out.

I feel a whole lot better without Distin and Howard near this team at present to be honest. Barkley needed a rest, no doubt about that – his game only suits being part of a winning side playing with confidence.

Let’s hope we can bring a decent winger in during the window, Mirallas looks like his head is elsewhere. We cannot afford any passengers at present, especially in the derby.

Really impressed with Besic and Stones and we should be grateful for the improvement in our back-up keeper who hasn’t exactly been well supported.

It’s frustrating that our full-backs don’t seem to get to the by-line and manage decent crosses anymore – partly due to form and perhaps partly due to an increased focus on defence.

At this point I’d be happy with a mid-table finish and a summer of refreshing some of the squad who are just simply too old.

It’s good to see that the balance of the team is looking better and that we no longer play with 3 № 10s.

Ken, you will be correct in your estimation of where the team will finish, I think somewhere between 9th and 12th.

There is still plenty to play for and hopefully with a good run between now and the end of the season we can crack the 50-point barrier. It did not appear at the start of the season that the team was one in the early stages of transition but, with Robles, Stones and Besic starting to become regulars and Howard, Distin, Pienaar and Osman having seen better days, that’s what seems to have transpired.

I’m with Kevin re the defensive backbone to an extent. I think you can get away with a poorer defense when spirits are high and the attacking football is free-flowing, but that, for almost any team in the world, disappears at points (for months or even seasons). With Martinez playing a style which does not suit the players, we will not get many positive results unless we start keeping clean sheets.

I think two of the teams we could have legitimately considered as our rivals for a top four place at the start of the season (legitimately if not necessarily realistically because of squad depth) Liverpool and Man Utd, started the season very poorly. Their attacking intention was not backed up by solid defensive play, and they were coming undone again and again. Recent success for both teams has come through scoring less goals, but importantly, conceding less. Southampton have similarly been so successful this season because their two holding midfielders have protected a very effective defensive unit, and they’ve taken their chances fantastically.

Now we have, when fit, a very good defensive unit. McCarthy is a superb defensive midfielder who has been sorely missed. Barry has been poor, and has contributed to our poor run, even if he has not been alone in that respect, whilst Besic is talented but rash. Nonetheless we can put out two good/very good DMs, and a back line of Baines, Jagielka, Stones and Coleman will keep clean sheets, even if the historically solid Distin has inevitably declined this season. This defensive unit should be a solid foundation, and we should concentrate on retaining that element of Moyes’s legacy, because it was a fantastic element.

Obviously there is more to our defensive unit than those six players, especially when the structure-less attack midfield trio have often been caught wanting, in part because of positional problems, and we have at times been overloaded (we cannot expect an aging Barry to cover these gaps in a way that McCarthy can). This is a by-product of the positional problems caused in part by Martinez I think, and the players at the club.

The win was an essential win yesterday, not just because of the three points, but because of the clean sheet. We need to build on it, and Martinez needs to acknowledge that is style of football will not work with these players, and that focusing on our defensive merits is the best way to steer our way out of trouble. I don’t have much in the way of expectations now, but I’d like to see us get out of trouble, hopefully into the top half because the placing money is important for us, and I’d like to see a small Europa run because then we can all dream for a little bit longer... and with this kind of season, we need to dream a little.

The derby is now the essential game of our season. If we lose it playing impotent football, all the bad feeling will be amplified. If we get a win, or even a draw, playing the kind of football we should be playing, then it can set us for the remaining few months. The fans want to see spirit, because we all know that this squad is underachieving. We have been almost unique in terms of the league in recent years, because we’ve either overachieved, or done what was expected. We did to find that consistency again, and we need to find the spirit.

Finally, yesterday, we’ve played a team on a good run of form and beat them, rather than being the team which gets beat by a team on a poor run. Now let’s go do the same to Liverpool, because the players and manager owe us a big result.

Yes, we all want to see quick counter-attacking football, and yes we should be playing better with the squad we’ve got; but we are where we are, and even if the team was playing at the top of its game, I would take a 1-0 away win all day long, no matter how spawny, tedious, straight to the last slot on MotD it was.

How many times have you seen the great Man Utd sides spawn an away win; not playing well and coming away with the points is a good habit to get. Onward and (hopefully) upwards and bring on the Redshite; not a good time to play them (but then again when is?) and on paper they should win, but I’ve seen worse Everton sides beat/draw with better Liverpool sides so who knows.

We are coming out of a terrible run and confidence is fragile and between now and march I’d take every 1-0 tedious load of old shite the game could throw up.

Maybe, just maybe, RM has realised that points on the board are what matters. Beat the Redshite next week and well who knows! Go for the jugular in a very winnable game. COYB!!

On a side note if you haven’t seen Benzema’s 2nd goal yesterday it’s worth a look. Probably the best goal I have seen this season for power and placement.

Very happy with the win. Even more happy that Robles is coming good and God bless Jon Stones what a difference maker. Even Jags is playing better now.

All we need now is a run of form. Our season was just about on track earlier in season then we threw away a good position at Spurs and went into freefall. This scrappy win may be just the catalyst we need to get motoring.

May not have been pretty, but I remember the darker days where relegation was a darker spectre than it is now, where a 1-0 away win against anyone in any circumstances was mere hope over reason. This is a great result regardless of the lack of style. It was an important win-at-all-costs victory.

I’m relieved we won because Everton won, not Roberto, I support Everton not Roberto, that comes first and foremost. I think (and hope) we will stay up, preferably avoiding the dogfight from the games after Chelsea, but cometh the summer I think Roberto should still go but that’s for another day, the plight of Everton FC to get to safety is first and foremost.

3:05pm to 4:55pm was a long time yesterday, very long indeed, but credit is due to the players, they stood up to be counted. The sense of relief was great more than anything.

Now for our friends across the park...

I try to mix a bit of art/culture with football and vice versa – for too many years you were put in a box: artists or football fan – now it’s trendy to be interested (or seemingly) in football.

Sometimes I read poetry out at The Dark House before and after the match. I once wrote an article for an arts magazine about theatre and the headline was Grotowski Artaud and Stanislavski – I said it sounded like a midfield that we should have at Everton.

Also at a talk at The Biennal, I said Van Gogh should have signed for Everton.

Great result yesterday – all that mattered then.

Now let’s push on.

As Curtis Mayfield said "move on up".

Cosmic grooves all the way.

Okay, still lots to iron out but they only lost one game in January which shows they are becoming harder to beat again.

With Macca back next week I am sure the fans will feel better about upcoming games.

I love Everton with all of me but somehow Roberto has transformed a solid top 7 side into a dithering train wreck of a side. I’m a big fan of Lukaku and Mirallas but they both did very little, they both worked hard but their quality on the ball was poor.

Our defence stood strong along with Joel who collected a lot of crosses but we massively miss McCarthy and an in-form Ross Barkley. Naisy has been in decent enough form at times this season but I’d like to see Ross put back in a central role sooner rather than later as he can help to control the big games for us. We’ve just gotta hope the warm winter training and a seat on the bench this week has revitalised him in the way Sterling’s trip to Jamaica rejuvenated him.

I can’t stand Brendan Rodgers but what he’s done recently is get back to his basics, get Sterling back firing and kicked on. It could be a blue print for us where Roberto goes back to having the best attacking full backs in the league and a young fearless attack of Lukaku and Barkley with the added creativity of Mirallas.

Back to yesterday’s performance though, it’s simple: If we play like that vs the Redshite and Chelsea, we will be destroyed.

Besic and Barry did very well yesterday so it will be interesting to see if he makes any changes if McCarthy is fit.

If things are tight or not going our way in the derby, I would like to see Kone on much sooner next week, thought he held the ball up really well during his brief spell yesterday.

A real plus point is the form of Robles. I must admit I had written him off after a few appearances, I am delighted to see he is proving me wrong and even if Howard was fit at the moment I think Joel deserves to keep his place.

A surprise addition on transfer deadline day would cap a good weekend all round!!!

The same goes for Howard. There’s no way I’d let him just walk back into the team if Robles continues to improve. People need to start fighting for their places that’s the only way to improve them.

In other words, I’d start the same team as yesterday against the RS.

All the back four played well, particularly Robles who caught the ball, commanded the box and looked for the first time like a half-decent keeper.

Teams on a bad run need a scrappy 1-0 victory. I’m glad we took this chance, now we need some consistency.

Imagine if Martinez had been sacked last week, been replaced by Big Joe, Big Dunc, or AN Other Mr Shouty-Sweary and we’d given that display. Think of all the posts we’d be reading about a ’proper’ Everton performance, the kind of gritty, hard-fought display you’d never see from a Martinez team. The ’real’ Everton being back.

Okay, it wasn’t pretty... but I welcome that after recent defeats and a free-scoring Palace. A sombre pre-match Martinez set out the side and ground out the result.

What pleased me most was that those in defensive roles were clearly told to just ’put your foot through it’ and clear the ball when necessary, no messing about.

Palace were largely restricted to speculative crosses into the box to find Jagielka and Stones in imperious form. Besic also impressed me. McGeady didn’t do himself any favours at all with that ballooned chance and I hope Barkley gets restored for the big one.
Always nice to see ’in a different league’ Pards have the smile wiped off his face!

Class that my friend, sheer class.

Recently I posted another poem which I felt was appropriate......can’t for the life of me find it, so please forgive my repetition....

"If —", Rudyard Kipling:

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream — and not make dreams your master;
If you can think — and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And — which is more — you’re an Evertonian, my son!

(BTW his poetry might be magic.......but his cakes are overpriced shite!)

So to sum up. IMO Everton are better balanced when Oviedo is playing. They went on a run of wins last season when he played in place of an injured Baines. Just a thought. Also I’d think about testing Coleman, defence wise , can Browning or Hibbert be any worse. I’m only talking for the odd game. And as seen yesterday, the team can manage with Barkley taken out of the firing line, for now. I prefer proper midfielders to actually be playing in midfield (not Naismith or Mirallas). I’d even play Barry(cause he is not getting dropped), Besic and McCarthy(when fit), in the same team. Shore up the midfield. Play for now 4-4-2, The wing-back system (for some reason , this season is not working). Coleman and Baines are being stifled. So adapt, just play an orthodox defensive game. This team cannot afford to plod on the same old way that we saw over Christmas. The passing game was slow and stale. I’m amazed that it has taken so long to actually try and change, cause to carry on would have been a disaster. Yesterday was not pretty but it was 3 points. That’s all that counts. Just a point on our midfield, we badly need a creative midfielder. A real general who controls that area, and who can provide good ball to the forward line. We don’t have that type of player at the club. Along with other positions, I hope that that is a priority for the summer. Barkley is not ready to do that job.

Bring on next week. Set up to not concede (that is half the battle). And lets hit them on the break, cause on their day ,Everton can be good playing that way. Practise corners and Freekicks (cause they could be the difference in this type of game). No slow passing anywhere on the pitch (especially defence). And no mistakes. And we just might get a result. Sorry for stating the bloody obvious, but its taken Martinez far to long to actually see the obvious. This poor run was a bit more than just a blip. Lets hope that a corner has been turned.

Last comment, as everybody has said, a win is a win, well done to all, that’s the players and the manager, credit were credit is due. Get by whatever means points on the board. Gain confidence. Build on that and I have faith that performances will follow. But any more downfalls like the winter of discontent, and the managers role must be questioned. As already stated, the ball is now firmly in Mr.Martinez’s court. Heres hoping that he is up to the challenge. And please Mr. Martinez, no more talking nonsense. Just manage.

At this stage of the season, I believe that it is a lower points tally than Walter Smith had when he was sacked. No crystal ball needed to see all that. But one win and you reckon Martinez deserves a round of applause. I reserve judgement on that. And for the record, I don’t hate Martinez, I hate the poor results this season. And it's not all down to a few injuries... is it?

Sorry folks, but people making comments, and directing them at others gets my goat (and this is the last from me in that vein). Make a comment and then let people make up their own minds. No stupid insults. We all know our own minds. Be civilised. COYBS.

Three of our back four are England internationals. We should be expecting to be tight and organised at the back. We should be hard to beat rather than nice to play against.

Focus on getting us right and steady at the back again as we were last season before trying the fancy stuff again.

It’s the blanket dismissal of a performance that earned a 1-0 win as "pathetic" and "absolute crap" and the labelling of the players as "these arseholes" that I don’t think helps either your case or the standard or discussion on these pages, particularly when you’ve already said the same thing on another thread.

1) the bits of my post where I suggested we'd turned a corner after one win.

2) The bits of my post where I said Joe Royce couldn't do a job?

Victor, I don't have a crystal ball, just my opinions and perceptions like everyone else.

The irony is that part of my post was about how some people twist words to suit their dislike of Martinez.

Point proved, methinks. ....

What we need to do is to add an attacking dimension to our game, for whatever reason we are reluctant to shoot from just outside the box, added to the fact that we very rarely play the ball into the box quickly. Instead everyone wants to dribble inside the box for heavens sake just put your foot through the ball when in and around the box.

Robles
Coleman Jagielka Stones Baines
Barry (45' McCarthy) Besic
Mirallas (60' Barkley) Naismith Oviedo (75' Kone)

Lukaku

1st sub: Get in McCarthy in second half, with that bundle of energy against some tiring RS midfielders.

2nd sub: Get in Kone and shift to a more traditional 4-4-2 formation. The RS will not be expecting it.

3rd sub: Get Barkley in, he will have a point or two to prove now.

Robles
Coleman Jagielka Stones Baines
Barry (45" McCarthy) Besic
Mirallas (60" Barkley) Naismith Oviedo (75" Kone)
Lukaku

1st sub: Get in McCarthy in second half, with that bundle of enerygy against some tiring RS midfielders.
2nd sub: Get in Kone and shift to a more traditional 4-4-2 formation. The RS will not be expecting it.
3rd sub: Get Barkley in, he will have a point or two to prove now.

There was never going to be the time or space for Martinez to try and play slow, possession football. And – finally – Bobby embraced this. The players often looked for the forward pass to the wingers or Lukaku three or four passes earlier than against West Brom. It worked. Even though they had less of the ball than Palace, the Everton players created by far the better chances in the game. I can only remember Robles having to make one save from a 25-yarder, and punch out a dangerous cross; everything else (bar Jagielka's excellent goalline clearance) was pretty easily dealt with. On the other hand, some better finishing from Lukaku, McGeady and Naismith should've seen a more comfortable winning margin.

Keeping a clean sheet away from home is always a fantastic achievement. And even better considering Palace's recent goalscoring record.

Time to get behind Martinez. The team was clearly together, they approached the game the right way and they deserved the three points. Goodison derby now – and the team will need everything from the fans. No negativity. No boos when we pass the ball across the back.

The biggest game of our season so far is up next. But after witnessing the fight and determination at Selhurst Park first hand, I think they'll be up for it, and I think we can win it.

Frankly, the goal was lucky and Lukaku put it away speedily.Then they came at us, lost a key player and by the middle of the second half were tiring. McGeady missed the best second goal chance by not passing the ball. I've heard him described as a headless chicken that runs all day.

I'm sure we'll be up for the Derby. Sturridge is back but then so is Jags.