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What will it take to challenge for silverware?
The last piece of silverware we won was back in 1995 when Paul Rideout scored the winner in the FA Cup Final over Man Utd. Looking back, that seems like a really long time ago; 12 years... Even though we are no longer annual candidates for relegation, do we have what it takes to win any silverware?No doubt Moyes has done an excellent job and got us all excited again by giving us a taste of European football with the Champions League (albeit just the qualifying round) and Uefa Cup football. European qualification now seems imperative rather than the traditional avoidance of relegation but, deep inside me, I fear the gulf between us and the so-called Top 4 appear to be widening, unlike common belief that it is closing.
The reason why I say so is not because of a lack of confidence, but because of a lack of consistency for our side. Teams that win silverware are those that have the killer instinct, which ironically was displayed against us via a Vidic header last Saturday. It is simply not good enough to play well against the big clubs, and not being able to pull of the same performance against clubs like Reading and Blackburn, no disrespect to them of course. Moyes has certainly brought in some some very good players, but we still lack the cutting edge, the creativity, to pick teams apart. I'd wonder how many goals Yakubu or Johnson would score, if they were playing for another team like Arsenal?
The signing of Gravesen has lessened this a little, but an over reliance on the likes of him and Arteta has made us a one dimensional, hoof-it-into-the-air sort of team that ultimately results in creating very few chances. How many times did we see a series of five short passes being strung together on Saturday? I only remember Baines, Arteta, Ossie, and even Hibbert (yes Hibbert) trying to keep it on the ground, whilst the likes of Jagielka and Neville consistently pumped balls into the air as if we had Crouch as our target man.
The purpose of this article is to point out the style of play which we are currently employing which will surely decide whether we can lift a trophy. Some may argue George Graham's Spurs did win the League Cup with such a style, but do we want to follow in those footsteps? Granted Moyes has tried to turn this around through people like Van der Meyde, Krøldrup, and Fernandes, but the general idea I get when I watch my beloved team play is that the direction given is to play it into the box or down the channel for AJ to chase at every opportunity. I think it is no coincidence why AJ managed only 10 goals last season and none so far, while he managed to score more while playing for Palace. At this rate, does anyone dare to bet on Yakubu scoring 20 this season? I think he'd be lucky to grab 12 the way I see it.
Forgive me if I have touched some raw nerve here, but I believe I'm simply echoing some fellow Evertonians sentiments.
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When everyones fit and we?ve got a full squad to choose from, theres no reason why we can?t challenge for trophys this season, im not saying the league but we can definately challenge for both domestic cups, for us to be successful in europe we have to be getting europe every season something i think were more than capable of doing.
Andy - when was the last time we actually had a fully fit squad? It never happens, Gravesen has played 20 mins then he gets injured. Vaughan, Cahill etc... it never ends. Why can?t shite like Hibbert get injured!
joe to be honest i can?t remember the last time we had a full squad, maybe i should of said if we can get the whole squad fit then we can challenge and i honestly believe that, also once gravesen and cahill are fit i can see hibbert being dropped and hopefully see neville right back.
Fuckin ’ell Ian...that article is about our current style of play, yet you still manage to put a comment in response that is basically about Kirkby.
A new ground does not equal trophies, it doesn’t even guarantee there will be investment in the club...no matter where it is situated. I agree that having money to burn does help, as demonstrated by the fact that no team outside of the ’big 4’ has won the FA cup since we last did in ’95, however
that still doesn’t guarantee anything, look at all the other clubs that have had cash injenctions or have been ’taken over’ what silverware have they got to show for it? I still can’t get my head round the fact that so many people who read and contribute to this site think that by moving to a new ground we will attract investment and then all our problems will be solved, and we’ll finally be competing with the so called ’big boys’ wake up! it ain’t that easy...
A new ground does not equal trophies, it doesn’t even guarantee there will be investment in the club...no matter where it is situated. I agree that having money to burn does help, as demonstrated by the fact that no team outside of the ’big 4’ has won the FA cup since we last did in ’95, however
that still doesn’t guarantee anything, look at all the other clubs that have had cash injenctions or have been ’taken over’ what silverware have they got to show for it? I still can’t get my head round the fact that so many people who read and contribute to this site think that by moving to a new ground we will attract investment and then all our problems will be solved, and we’ll finally be competing with the so called ’big boys’ wake up! it ain’t that easy...
Ay! who moved Ian Edwards comment down! It looks like i’m talking to meself in my original comment now...
all these posts are in the wrong positions(ha ha) anyway ian as andy rannard said investment and new stadiums don’t necessarily mean your automatically going to be challenging for honours, it does’nt work like that, if you take out the so called top 4 we have as much a chance as anyone at winning something.
Hmmm... there does seem to be a problem with the non-sequential order of things. Something for the webmaster to ponder, methinks! Of course it might help if some people (yes, you, Andy McKenzie)!) would use their full names as requested. From this thread it appears there is more than one Andy in the world!
Michael if thats the reason why the posts are all jumbled then im sorry if its caused confusion, i will put my full name in future, so once again my apologies.
Vincent, I agree that we lack a cutting edge, and that quite a bit of the football is of a poor standard [although I do see signs of an attempted improvement in this [Spurs away was a start, both this, and particularly last, season]].
It’s pretty obvious to everyone that we need a quality creative central midfielder, who should be playing here with Jags. In the short term we just haven’t got one [with Cahill injured, and I don’t think he’s the long term solution to this problem either], so I think either Tommy [who I’m not a fan of], or Arteta, should play here, with wide midfielders taken from Pienaar, McFadden, Ossie, or, sobriety permitting, VdM. Hope that Fernandes money hasn’t disappeared by January...
By the way, I agree that both AJ and Yak would score a hatful of goals at the Arse, but to suggest that they currently have a ’killer instinct’ doesn’t really stack up. The way they have played played over the last five to ten years, with the chances created, they should have won far more than they have.
It’s pretty obvious to everyone that we need a quality creative central midfielder, who should be playing here with Jags. In the short term we just haven’t got one [with Cahill injured, and I don’t think he’s the long term solution to this problem either], so I think either Tommy [who I’m not a fan of], or Arteta, should play here, with wide midfielders taken from Pienaar, McFadden, Ossie, or, sobriety permitting, VdM. Hope that Fernandes money hasn’t disappeared by January...
By the way, I agree that both AJ and Yak would score a hatful of goals at the Arse, but to suggest that they currently have a ’killer instinct’ doesn’t really stack up. The way they have played played over the last five to ten years, with the chances created, they should have won far more than they have.
Good article but I do think that there is absolutely no reason why we can’t have a very good run in the cup competitions this year. I know that traditionally under Moyes we haven’t really done it in the cups and, who knows, it may be the same story this year. But with the squad improving year on year and with Tiny Tim, Vaughan et al waiting in the wings I think we should have enough to challenge for silverware (League cup is for the taking if we take it seriously enough). I also think that with other teams (West Ham, Man City, Villa) setting there sights on the Euro qualification (not to mention Spurs, Newcastle, Blackburn) qualifying for Europe via league position will be increasingly tough over the next couple of seasons - therefore, I think that Everton should consider the cups as a legitimate way of Euro qualification. I do believe that we have a good enough squad and management to achieve consistently - in my opinion Everton are the team that has shown the rest that the big 4 can be broken - and we should now kick on after a promising few years. Yes, perhaps there is a weak link in the midfield but lets see what happens come January. We got gazumped by Manny and thats put a bit of a spanner in the works but we can still do well without him.
Anyway, the point of this is to say that any of the cup competitions we are in this year aren’t beyond us and it is about time we took them very seriously. Lets hope come May we’ll have something in our trophy cabinet, a high league placing and another year of European football to look forward to - there is no reason why not!
Anyway, the point of this is to say that any of the cup competitions we are in this year aren’t beyond us and it is about time we took them very seriously. Lets hope come May we’ll have something in our trophy cabinet, a high league placing and another year of European football to look forward to - there is no reason why not!
It would be great to win a cup but to be honest I think we’ve got the same chance of winning as all the other premiership teams. It’s largely down to the luck of the draw. In the few years we’ve been knocked out of the carling cup twice by Arsenal (was it last year we outplayed arsenal and should have won but for some terrible refereeing?) and once by Chelsea and we’ve been knocked out the FA cup by Chelsea, Man Utd and Blackburn. Yes a cup run would be nice - but in answer to your question - a good draw in the early stages!
Hey Ed, thanks for your comments (and other people as well =))
Well I don’t think we have money to spend in Jan as probably we’ve spent more this summer than any of the summers Moyes has been involved in. Perhaps we could get some people on loan? Moyes has traditionally shown a shrewd ability to sign people on loan, so maybe he might pull a trick or two off.
One reason why Spurs,Boro and Blackburn have done well in Europe is because they can create chances, and in Europe, that is imperative especially if when away goals are so crucial.
The problem about us is that we do not create enough chances to have a comfortable cushion. I can’t really remember the last time we had an easy win other than 3-1 against Villa last year I think.
Well I don’t think we have money to spend in Jan as probably we’ve spent more this summer than any of the summers Moyes has been involved in. Perhaps we could get some people on loan? Moyes has traditionally shown a shrewd ability to sign people on loan, so maybe he might pull a trick or two off.
One reason why Spurs,Boro and Blackburn have done well in Europe is because they can create chances, and in Europe, that is imperative especially if when away goals are so crucial.
The problem about us is that we do not create enough chances to have a comfortable cushion. I can’t really remember the last time we had an easy win other than 3-1 against Villa last year I think.
moyes is a campaigner
for some reason he does not have a cup winners attitude
he’s the opposite to that fat spanish waiter across the road who is a trophy winner but can’t hack the campaigns
i can’t see us ever winning a cup with moyes
for some reason he does not have a cup winners attitude
he’s the opposite to that fat spanish waiter across the road who is a trophy winner but can’t hack the campaigns
i can’t see us ever winning a cup with moyes
Dave.T. as for winning cup competitions we will have some idea
what the oppositions strengths are
in the EUFA cup after Thurs, but my
worry is the game next week in the other cup, against a team that has no points, and we dont shine away in cup matches, but I have still
bought my ticket, and lets hope Moyes selects a side to WIN.
what the oppositions strengths are
in the EUFA cup after Thurs, but my
worry is the game next week in the other cup, against a team that has no points, and we dont shine away in cup matches, but I have still
bought my ticket, and lets hope Moyes selects a side to WIN.
i think we’ll beat sheff wed, we just can’t seem to beat prem opposition in cups
Dave T-really interesting point about Moyes as a ’campaigner’ rather than a cup tie winner. I think the reason is the basically defensive, ’play the percentages’ philosophy of Moyes. This means we are, over a whole campaign, good at defending marginal leads and getting draws. You win some, you draw some, you lose some.
Unfortunately when you lose some in a cup - you are out. In cups you basically, even at some point in two legged ties, need to take some risks and go out to win. Not Moyes’s philosophy.
I wonder if similar managers (Allardyce, Hughes) also have poor cup records? Don’t have the data, but I don’t recall them doing particularly well.
Unfortunately when you lose some in a cup - you are out. In cups you basically, even at some point in two legged ties, need to take some risks and go out to win. Not Moyes’s philosophy.
I wonder if similar managers (Allardyce, Hughes) also have poor cup records? Don’t have the data, but I don’t recall them doing particularly well.
Allardyce got the Carling cup final with Bolton didn’t he? Lost to Boro - who I think had also knocked us out, might be wrong.
Being relegated then getting in to the play off finals is our only chance of playing at Wembley again in my life time.I am 45 now so lets hope we we go down soon as I wouldnt mind a trip to the New Wembley.Theres no chance of doing it the conventional way like getting to a Semi and winning it is there?
A change of manager
If we can get one or two real class midfield players in january than i think we?ll have a good run in all competitions and if we can get rid off like players as osman hibbert neville in the next summer and we can keep the likes of baines yobo lescott arteta cahill vaughan yakubu etc and a new manager than we will go all the way for sure !!!.
All this talk of winning a cup, and how nice it would be...
makes me sick...
we aint newcastle boys...
it wasn?t that long ago that man u and chelsea would have given anything to be Everton Football club...
nil satis nisi optimum...
is it me, or have blues forgotten what this actually means...
give moyes another 2 years to get us cemented in the top 4... if we aint there then, well its time to dish out a P45 to the guy...!
makes me sick...
we aint newcastle boys...
it wasn?t that long ago that man u and chelsea would have given anything to be Everton Football club...
nil satis nisi optimum...
is it me, or have blues forgotten what this actually means...
give moyes another 2 years to get us cemented in the top 4... if we aint there then, well its time to dish out a P45 to the guy...!
OK Vincent....since you ask the question.
NEW OWNER
NEW MANAGER
15/20 NEW PLAYERS.
If you can?t stand a life without cups for Everton, look away until these three conditions are met. We don?t do Cup ties!
We no longer do shut-outs and for a manager who loves, beyond all else, to win games 1-0 - that is something of a big problem !
Sort that out and we can still finish in fifth place in the Premier League... with a bit of luck.
NEW OWNER
NEW MANAGER
15/20 NEW PLAYERS.
If you can?t stand a life without cups for Everton, look away until these three conditions are met. We don?t do Cup ties!
We no longer do shut-outs and for a manager who loves, beyond all else, to win games 1-0 - that is something of a big problem !
Sort that out and we can still finish in fifth place in the Premier League... with a bit of luck.
My answer was honest as I saw it. The only way we will win trophies is if we get investment and we will only be attractive to ivestors if we move regardless of whether it is Kirkby.
"give moyes another 2 years to get us cemented in the top 4... if we aint there then, well its time to dish out a P45 to the guy...! "
No manager could get us cemented in the top 4 in the next 2 years unless he was given a shit load of cash - and by a shit load of cash I mean enough to compete with Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea. Our motto is a motto - not a fucking magic wand. I think we need to be more realistic - the fact that we’re no longer the force we once were is not Moyes fault - and I think he’s done a fantastic job turning us round.
No manager could get us cemented in the top 4 in the next 2 years unless he was given a shit load of cash - and by a shit load of cash I mean enough to compete with Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea. Our motto is a motto - not a fucking magic wand. I think we need to be more realistic - the fact that we’re no longer the force we once were is not Moyes fault - and I think he’s done a fantastic job turning us round.
We should have no problems advancing past the group stages in the UEFA Cup. God you only need to finish 3rd out of 5. Then after Christmas, maybe a couple of squad additions and who knows. We should surely be able to rest several players and beat Sheffield Wednesday. Play people like Turner, Stubbs, Valente, Anichebe and McFadden, rest the others and still be far too strong
mark stone.....
you only get one life lad, its not a rehearsal...
dont settle for second best or average...
football is a sport, a class of entertainment... lets keep looking until we find a formula that gets us back to the top... stability and being realistic, is for team who lack ambition....
you gotta learn to want more lad!
you only get one life lad, its not a rehearsal...
dont settle for second best or average...
football is a sport, a class of entertainment... lets keep looking until we find a formula that gets us back to the top... stability and being realistic, is for team who lack ambition....
you gotta learn to want more lad!
mark stone.....
you only get one life lad, its not a rehearsal...
dont settle for second best or average...
football is a sport, a class of entertainment... lets keep looking until we find a formula that gets us back to the top... stability and being realistic, is for team who lack ambition....
you gotta learn to want more lad!
you only get one life lad, its not a rehearsal...
dont settle for second best or average...
football is a sport, a class of entertainment... lets keep looking until we find a formula that gets us back to the top... stability and being realistic, is for team who lack ambition....
you gotta learn to want more lad!
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1 Posted 18/09/2007 at 12:51:48
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