If Ya Know Yer History
It appears my last post on Sunday night has hit a few raw nerves and has been taken a little out of context. Let me explain please.I have been enjoying the mini-revival the team has gone through since the defeat at Old Trafford in December just as much as the next man. That's not to say I have been getting carried away with any of it. 6-1 defeats of SK Brann, although nice to watch, never really proved anything in the way of gauging our progress.The Florentina games did that job for us though.
We went out against the Italian side because they were technically more gifted and you can't argue any different. Forget a penalty shootout being a lottery because if it was then Florentina got 6 numbers up plus the bonus ball. Did any of thier players even remotley look like missing a spot kick? Did they shite.
The reason I dislike the Uefa Cup so much is the poxy fromat in which it's played. Apart from the 3 million teams that enter it, most of whom we have never heard of before (Kharkiv Mentalists, anyone?) we then have to go in to a league type play-off were no one plays the opponenets home and away.... Fucking joke. Imagine the outcry if they tried that bullshit in the Champions League.
After this pathetic mini-league or whatever it's called ends, all of the CL rejects then filter down in to Uefa Cup and then get seeded. Yet more nonesense.
Only half a million teams left by now so were still in with a shout; what a carry on... It's crap, end of story. The old knock-out format would be miles better than this fucked up competion.
I remember going to Nuremberg last year and, although it was a great trip the game meant nothing as we had already won twice . YAWN. A 2-0 away win in Europe should be an amazing event that is etched in the memory banks for ever. The train ride to the ground was better than the game... and that's the truth.
With 8 games still to go in the league, I have been accussed of throwing in the towel. I am also a quitter and a negative bellend who is a coward. Fair enough... but how about a man who doesn't live in dreamland and is realistic enough to believe we have blown what could be our last chance for donkey's years to make the CL.
How about a man who has watched over the years as the twats from across the park have efficently and ruthlessly destroyed Everton FC teams and thier fans dreams for as long as I can remember.
It started way back in the late 70s at Maine Road in the Clive Thomas FA Cup semi-final and carried on through out the 80s. I have yet to see us beat Liverpool in a final or a semi-final and we have had plenty of goes at it believe me. I have been at three cup finals against Liverpool and we have lost them all. Fucking devastating it is.
Add to that the 1986 League Championship race where they pipped us to the title on the last day of the season by winning 1-0 at Chelsea while we stuck 6 past Southampton at Goodison. I think they won the league by a poxy point, the spwany bastards. Some say we blew it at Oxford by losing 1-0 at thier place earlier in the month. I put it down to the red curse striking again..
They did the double over us that year and what a fucking miserable year that was. Gary Lineker scored 40 league goals that season and the opening goal in the FA Cup final and still we finished with fuck all.
Lineker left Everton after only one season as English clubs had been banned from Europe because of guess who fucking about at Heysel? The Championship-winning Everton side of 1985 being denied thier rightfull place in the European Cup beacuse of fucking Liverpool. It gets worse. We win the league again in 1987 and still we are banned from Europe. Thats 2 appearances in the European Cup pissed away by Gobshite Kopites. Surely this bollocks can't go on.
Fast forward to 2004 and Everton finish 4th in the league. YIPPPEEE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE HERE WE COME.... Oh no you don't. Liverpool win the final that year and being on of Europe's elite get the rules changed and guess what one way or the other an English team will give way for them. No prizes for guesssing who it was. Old muggins EFC are the fall guys yet again and once more the Anfield curse strikes.
I have been through it all with this club we support. The highs and the lows... so don't call me a quitter. One thing I have learned though from all these years of support is always fear the worst and expect very little when ever Liverpool come on to the radar. That way, the pain will be much easier to take when they do for us again.
At least that's what I tell myself.
All you younger fans wont know and can't know the suffering we old schoolers have been through over the years and I am so glad you are enjoying the club right now but please keep a sense of realsim about were we are and were we are going. Those twats from across the park are never far away when it comes to pissing on our parade and this is why I am very very wary to even contemplate beating them for the 4th place in the league.
I hope I am wrong but, like I say, I have been down this road many times before and I never like what's usually at the end of it. Negative quitter or a man whos footballing life has been ruined by one club... You make your minds up.
Reader Comments
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Whilst I disagree with a lot in your post, I can see why you are frustrated and where it comes from.
I have supported Everton for 22 years. Coming from a Rugby League background I didn?t care too much for soccer but I stayed up one night in 1986 and watched the FA Cup final against Liverpool. From that moment on I fell in love with Everton and have been an avid fan ever since.
The thing that attracted me most was the fact that everyone else I was watching the game with was going for Liverpool and I loved an underdog. I am currently reading the School of Science and I can appreciate where your coming from.
I don?t want to give you a hard time as I have in the past because I can see that you're hurting, but if you think that we are done and dusted for the season you must be mistaking the Everton I know for some other club.
I think you just like talking bolo and giving out
2. This season isn’t over yet. Pull yourself together.
3. This ’poxy’ UEFA cup run gave many people great pleasure and has brought our team on leaps and bounds.
4. I guarantee you will recognise the name of this year’s eventual winner. And it should have been Everton.
5. I bet even you sang ’city twice’ at some point.
6. Playing in and qualifying for the UEFA cup may just have stopped the likes of Piennar, Yakubu and maybe even Lescott/Moyes from ’doing a Lineker’
7. The AFCoN is the cup you should be rallying against as it is that one that has most affected our CL challenge this year.
8. And a few dodgy referees of course.
9. We don’t care what the RS say. Remember that.
What can I say?
I could pick hole in your article, which could out you as a writer of articles purely designed to get a reaction i.e. if the UEFA Cup is so abhorrent to you what were you doing in Nuremberg?
I’ve lived through all of the RS hate/cheating etc My first game was the Charity Shield at Goodison in 1966 and I’ve hated the RS ever since.
Did you know that Clive Thomas’ daughter was a RS., now look you’ve got me at it.
I think I might now be over my RS malaise (well temporarily anyway as I am sure there will be a relapse before the end of the season).
So what helped me get over it?
Articles about RS away at Inter Milan had RS players/fans harking back about the ONE refereeing decision that has EVER gone against them. 1965 in Europe - dodgy ref, RS cheated and knocked out. I don’t know why but it just made me laugh, I suppose it is the thought of the ONE that got away, poor sods, how have they coped for all these years with that event on their backs.
By the way Dave R you forgot to mention all the goals in derby matches that Mick Lyons scored but were all disallowed - except that beautifully floated back-pass over George Woods head at the Anfield Road end (I am sure I am about to exaggerate but a forty yard back pass own-goal - come on I ask you! there I go again).
So the RS have such a thin history, whereas ours is rich with hard luck stories. I think we are about to change! Come on Bill K and this is not a criticism, get some money behind the blues - our history in your hands!
We went to Anfield in the February and beat them 2-0 and Southall woz outstanding. We lost the best goalie on the planet at the wrong time and that is the only reason how them fuckin jam strangling bastards ended up with that double.
I dont think there’s a single blue who wont share your sentiments about RS, the older blues will also be aware that you could have pointed to countless other injustices / robberies whatever you want to call it when our paths have crossed, but your wrong here mate. We didnt accept our fate in 85 we held them at bay all season and did we really get robbed in 86, I too remember oxford, just as vividly as I remember G Stevens throwing a drowning RS a life line in the cup final, we werent robbed, we gave it away - btw, they didnt do the double over us that year, we won at Anfield
The year we blew the double will haunt us all forever.but we still didnt throw throw the towel in and within 12 months we were taunting them with chants of "hand it over" remember how sweet that was ?
My first derby - 66 charity shield - made me realise this was the neighbour from hell. These twats have enjoyed logic defying luck ever since, but the last thing you do is throw the towel in, give them fuck all, absolutely fuck all, fight them all the way, we might well come unstuck as you predict - I’m a realist too - remember the all too few really sweet times, you didnt get to sing "hand it over" at the top of your worst drunken voice by throwing the towel in
I sat watching on Sunday and after the events of Wednesday and said to my wife, "Why do I bother with being a football fan?" It is very rare you experience the highs as only one team can win a competition, which is what we all desire, and only too frequently that you experience the lows, the disappointment, the sleepless nights waking up and imagining Yobo?s header had gone in, or back to 96 with England and Gazza's foot just reaching that ball. With that in mind one section of your article was of particular interest:
"One thing I have learned though from all these years of support is always fear the worst and expect very little whenever Liverpool come on to the radar. That way, the pain will be much easier to take when they do for us again".
The answer my wife gave me is because we dare to dream. This is the life and misery of a football fan, we feel the pain of those defeats but we keep going because one day we will have that moment of sucess, and we need to ensure when it happens that we enjoy it to the max, which can?t happen if we never allows ourselves to believe it is possible.
My point being that it is still possible although the odds maybe a little against us, so don?t give up, we wouldn?t expect the players to give up at this stage so we should remain behind them until May at least and see what happens. If we don?t make it to 4th or win the Derby the pain will be there anyway and it will hurt whether you suspected it would happen of not. So enjoy while we can, unite behined the team and dare to dream.
Much more digestable that article, and one I can probably relate to deep down.
The difference between me and you mate is that I call myself a supporter. The definition of a supporter? Here is a couple:
One who promotes or advocates, a person who contributes to the fulfillment of a need or furtherance of an effort or purpose.
That is me. I understand fully your frustrations and you are too long in the tooth to suffer it any more, but the way I look at it is that we are on the cusp of something great here. We just need to keep this team growing in the right direction, and I fully beleive that under Moyes we will.
I know you have seen it, done it, and got the T- shirt, but many Blues haven't. To go around pissing on bonfires with your negativity smacks of defeatism to me, and I ain't no defeatist.
I have noticed in about a dozen of your articles whether it be ground share or other, you ALWAYS mention our neighbours, the shite. Why do you continually do this? Whatever goes on across the park means fuck all to me unless its the derby. Beyond that, whether they win or do it this way or that, it has no relevance.
We are building a new era, and I for one am going to keep my chin up rather than lay down and die after a defeat.
Something to ponder on.
As for not being a quitter, what else is saying we have blown our chances when there are still 8 games to go?
"Gary Lineker scored 40 league goals that season and the opening goal in the FA Cup final and still we finished with fuck all. "
Oh no he didn't!!! ... not league goals.. but then you never let the facts get in the way.
As far as I can tell, it was a long explanation for why Tony is so bitter and angry. The answer, it seems, is that he hates Liverpool. Stop the press!!
Anyway, what is this nonsense about last chance in donkey?s years to make the Champions League? We did it a couple of years ago and we are 3 points behind that all-important 4th spot as we speak. Your negativity is truly astounding, Tony. Let?s get behind the boys instead of writing them off and belittling their achievements in the Uefa Cup.
Seriously, though I disagree with almost everything you say (not including the above article) I draw the line at calling you a quitter/RS in disguise etc etc.
More pieces like this would be most welcome mate.
In fact if we’d had a fair ref at Goodison this season we’d still be above the RS.
And if you want to compare and contrast what he says about how things are going at Everton try some of the quotes from Joleon explaining why he had no hesitation signing that new contract.
Rant on and on, Tony, but don’t expect to be taken seriously.
I?m sorry, but I just don?t swallow this excuse which some of us always seem to wheel out.
There?s no doubting that the ref was a joke that day, but it?s a convenient excuse to blame him for all our woes. If I remember rightly, we barely had an atempt on goal that day, wasn?t our goal an own goal anyway? And who?s to say we?d have scored a penalty anway, given our recent record?
To say we should have won that game and be ahead of them is a poor excuse, IMO we where simply shite that day and deserved nothing. However, it did galvanise us and resulted in our great run since, and who?s to say that would have happened if we hadn?t felt like we?d been robbed?
Why do we always have to blame someone else? Can?t we just get on with it and stop making excuses?
We now realise your problems are not of your doing following your last post. It has revealed a side of you only hinted at by your previous articles - and something many of us can identify with. We recognise a cry for help when we hear it and we want to help you get through this.
You are clearly a broken man...emotionally and morally wrecked and suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder going all the way back to when Shankly started to turn the RS around in the 60s. Every high since those days have been diluted by subsequent RS success or resulting decisions.
You wander the streets at night, and all you can see is red. Every smiling young face is a RS fan smirking at you. Every jukebox has ’You’ll never walk alone’ and the Prozac you’ve been on since a young man has been shown to be a fake supply from India. With the cost of psycho-analysis now beyond you (as your ongoing depression has cost you job after job and several failed relationships), you find sanctuary and comfort on the TW site, where you post cathartic comments to ease your pain...but the red demons just won’t go away.
We can help you Tony!...the Samaritans are not the answer to your ills. I know a pub where the walls are blue and the music is pure 60s, where they serve a cracking pint of Cains, and the barmaid (and even some of us) will wrap a comforting arm around you and console you of these debilitating mental illnesses known as Evertonitus and Rafaphobia.
Even better, is a place many of us on the road to recovery go every other weekend. It’s an old, but friendly stadium, where a fairly new doctor by the name of Moyes, aided by a bunch of hard-working lads, are slowly bringing us out of our depression. We still have our good and bad days, but honestly, Tony - it’s slowly getting better and I reckon in another few years this Moyes guy might just find the cure for our ills (just don’t look into his eyes for too long!)
Hang in there Tony - the sun is coming out. If this current team can cure me of a rare condition stemming from the early 80s called Manurosis (which I contracted when I kicked in a wardrobe door when a certain Lou Macari came off the bench and scored a late cup goal), then anything is possible.
I can only leave you with a crumb of comfort in your mental struggle against the RS. They all suffer from a long-term condition against 3 other teams called League-cosis (also known by many psychotherapists as Premier-envy). It can be controlled in the short term (by a 20-minute period of rehabiliation in Istanbul), but it soon reasserts itself and leads to irrational behaviour and an uncontrollable urge to speak Norwegian. We are all thankful this ultimately fatal condition has never affected us.
In the meantime, keep reading the posts (especially the positive ones, Tony - which seem to be getting larger in number) and if you suffer a relapse in the 5-year recovery plan we hope we are all on, then repeat a mantra my parents taught me from any early age (give or take the odd modern improvement) and repeat it until you start to smile again..... It goes "We don’t care what the redshite say...", "We don’t care what redshite say..." - see, Tony, it’ working already, isn’t it! COYBs
Hallefuckin?jullah, a blue without his head up his ?eternally optimistic? arse!
I would like to say the usual thing like ?couldn?t have written it any better? about an Evertonian?s lot because of the shower of scum across the park (you know, the park they?ve been allowed to bulid on when we weren?t), but I have to say I could have written the exact same article as Tony has because it is real!
We are fucking cursed by those bastards. And all this sentiment about ?we don?t care what the RS say! Absolute bollocks. Fact is we have been shafted at every turn in our modern history by those twats and it ain?t going to get any better soon, short of an asteriod dropping on Anfield, preferably with the whole lot of them in it!
Yep, I?ll get slated, just like Tony, it wouldn?t be the first time (even accused of being RS once! Unbelievable!).
"but the way I look at it is that we are on the cusp of something great here" Danny, admirable optimism there, however, I wonder what you mean by ?great?.
What Man Utd have done in the last deacde and a half is great. What the Dark Side did for the two decades prior to that was great. Do you really believe this is around the corner? I actually think some of you lot really believe this! The only crime Tony is pilloried for is that he has no such expectations borne out of all of that furstration he has felt bar one glorious 3-year period in the mid-eighties. And as Tony said, guess who put paid to that with the Hysel tragedy!
Get real folks, accept that our history is inextricably linked to those twats, decidedly not for the better, and that's just the way it is.
Oh one final point Tony: if the Uefa Cup is crap to you then why go to Nurnberg to watch us take part in a worhtless cup competition?
Why are you so convinced we?ll loose at Anfield? We didn't last year, I?m not some gullible fucker who thinks we?re onto something great, but have you seen the RS, They?re utter shite!
While were at it, I?d like to remind all the doom predicting, omen quoting, curse fearing, stat quoting, black cat avoiding, superstitious miserable twats... we?re unbeaten at the Emirates.
Yes, history is against us but that kind of defeatest attitude means we are beaten already! I disagree with a lot of your views but I did think you had some fucking backbone.
At the end of the day, it is eleven vs eleven on the park, the ball is round and we have a TEAM that can do the business for 8 more games and get a top 4 spot.
Not only would that likely mean Moyes gets the cash to make a real difference to our quality and strength in depth, but it may just be the gust that begins to blow down the RS house of cards, even if to date Anfield has been protected by their pact with the devil. The red devils will likely do us a favour this weekend though and it is time for the blue boys to take advantage and press it home for 8 more games! Lets Fight, fight and fucking fight for the boys in the royal blue jerseys!
COYB!
Yep it simply (but unbelieveably) that,some people just don’t get it!
I can only echo every word you wrote I'm sick of the RS shafting us at every chance that comes along.
Anyone who doesn't agree with the post musn't be able to see the wood for the trees
The RS are a curse
We didn’t. We qualified for the Champions League and played Villareal. They just granted another place for Liverpool.
You should hear what we have to put up with over here in Belfast. Gobshites is the best and nicest thing I can call them. They?re awful, you?d love to chin every one of them they?re so arrogant and self righteous.
Tony I have to admit I thought your last effort was a bit over the top, uncalled for in parts, but this article is right on the money pal. Fair play, that was a quality read and I totally agreed with it.
That said, I wouldn?t agree with any of the insults aimed at you, as stated above, but we do a good team now that needs to learn to live with the Sky / Money 4.
Like the rest of the guys above, I don?t believe for one minute this season is over, far from it, we?re still there, still fighting. Fulham happened because the players were shattered, most of these players were in new territory in the Uefa Cup. We?ve got a good chance for 4th yet, surely everyone can see now petty, nasty, snide and vindictive the Gobshite kopites.
Yes we will get screwed at Anfield (will it be any other way), even my Man Utd and Arsenal supporting friends are rooting for us and noticing that the RS are luckier than everyone else when it comes to the crunch.
Don?t give up. Save the pessimism, moaning and griping for the summer when it?s all done and dusted, until then, keep fighting and supporting.
So...Everton usually finish up behind LFC. And your point is ?
If in those cup finals and semis LFC score more and concede less than the blues then they win...nothing too difficult to understand.
Since the mid 60’s Everton have usually been playing second fiddle but that’s the way it goes. Ask any Birmingham or City fan about always being behind their bigger richer neighbours.
The dark side at present are a far bigger and richer club with a huge international fan base. Like Man U, even kids kicking a ball around in Bagdhad can be seen wearing the tacky red Carlsberg strip.
The Newcastle style circus around ownership and the doubts about moody arse remaining boss are entertaining but at the end of the day, it makes no difference to where Everton play or how they perform.
Lets put our own house in order and keep the faith with the current regime who are driving us forward from down and outs to Euro regulars.
Your obsession and bitterness towards the dark side is futile and contributes nothing......as do your regular negative missives.
love hurts but I must be missing some thing on this conversation somebody please correct me if wrong but when was the last time lpool won the league I dont mean the prem lg I mean the old league trophy is it 18 18 18 years lets get real I can
remember when even manu where in the old second div look et them now its called money
its what we used to do when moores was at the club we out bid the competition.we have had to
struggle for 20yrs with no money the reds have,nt chin up
There you go. That’s the spirit. I’m sitting thousands of miles away, and you credit yourselves too little. I’m sitting on 100 years of agony with my Cubs, and our RS (Cardinals) blunder into a World Series every time you look up, and we lose out to teams that nobody at all cares about. What do we get since 1908 (1908!!) - fuck all, gentlemen - precisely fuck all. But remember - as with the RS, there is no beauty in their manner, nor in their game. Spend a day in our friendly confines with a foamy cup of Old Style and a Wrigley Dog, and you’ll know what happiness is.
So would you be them? Dammit, you’re better than that, and you know it. Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never give in. Be blue, but don’t be depressed - their day to wail will come, as surely as we love a cold beer on a hot day. And when you see the disbelief cross those fat, satisfied RS brows, stuffed with ill-gotten hardware and incapable of contemplating the day that they are "just a small side" the joy will be just that much sweeter.
Eamus Catuli, gents - keep hope alive.
Your obsession with the RS is worrying. For ages I was the same, until I realized I was wasting too much time hating them and not supporting my beloved Everton. I suggest you do the same and start being a true Evertonian, if you know how to...
Tony, a therapist won’t help you. They don’t know ya history and with your luck you’re gonna get a RS for sure. Get round the pub lad, the blue one a poster mentioned above.
Oh, I have a lad who’s 2yrs old. The picture of him smiling in our kit is the best in the world. COYBs mate.
Course you can! We had a bad night at the office for the away leg, we beasted them at home and the percentages didn’t go our way. More technically gifted my backside.
Alan Ball played in my first game at Goodison; a couple of weeks ago I had a great chat with Alan Whittle who also played in that game, so like yourself I?ve seen it all from then on. That shower from across the park made my life hell as a teenager. I was assaulted by RS thugs in my mid-20s for celebrating the 1985 1st division win. The difference being is that now I refuse to let them bother me.
I am made up watching this team play, obviously it?s nowhere near the standards set by the 1985 team or the 1970 team but as I?m getting older I?m more optimistic. I am hoping rather than expecting the current team can achieve something, and I?ve seen in flashes some of the best football I?ve seen from an Everton team for 23 years. (When I?m a bit down I watch Ossie?s Larrisa goal again!)
So I try to gloss over the obvious shortcomings. If I don?t.... well I don?t drink anymore, so I can?t escape!!!!
I know they?ve pissed on our parade more times than I care to remember, but it?s all history - it should have no bearing on the present or the future - the only way it can is if we allow it to!
We?ve got a great opportunity to stick one right up them this season - failure to make the CL would be a disaster for the debt ridden RS. Whereas, it could be the springboard for our future success. The next 8 games give us an opportunity to gatecrash the cosy SKY 4 party - & one that might actually take!
Tony, I share your pain, with a lot of those memories, but here?s hoping that this season ends with us giving them a taste of their own. Starting with the derby, oh how sweet would it be to turn them over at Anfield. Being a football fan is all about dreams & maybe this time ours will become a reality.
Look at you all, all competing to show who hates ?The Redshite? most, and all becuase we?re a much bigger, mcuh better, much more famous and much more successful club than you no-mark twats.
What horrible, bitter, pathetic little people you are.
This article goes a long way to clarifying you?re point of view from your previous peice which, let?s face it, was drivel.
Stick with the lads, TM. I think we?ve still got a couple of suprises left in us this season.
Oh, btw, great description of the Uefa Cup format. Eienstein couldn?t have figured this format out.
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1 Posted 19/03/2008 at 06:23:20
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Tony lad, I thought your original article was a load of unadulterated tosh, however.... this piece could have been written by me! It looks as if we are probably of a similar age, as I too have endured a lifetime of suffering at the hands of the red bastards. So, for the first (and most likely only) time, I would like to say ’WELL SAID TONY MARSH!!!!!!’
I belong to a little prediction league thing here in South Africa, and I’m always being pilloried for the, shall we say, extreme views I often post regarding the shite, but your article pretty much sums up my feelings.
Some other notable incidents not included on your list:
Hansen’s goal-line handball in the 1984 League Cup Final - Seen by everyone on the entire planet (including those without televisions) but not given by the ref.
Gerrard’s two footed stamp on Gary Naysmith.
The Pat Nevin penalty not given at Analfield.
The Dirk Kuyt kung-fu kick.
Emlyn Hughes, Tommy Smith, Shithouse Case, Graeme Souness.........
I’m sure there are many many other incidents which we could list if bothered.
And then there’s the media!!!!! Yet they have the gall to mount a campaign to remove Andy Gray from commentating on their matches for anti-RS bias!!!!!