Living in another country and never having been to Goodison yet I’m not influence as strongly as others when it comes to location and emotion. In saying that I’m still not pro kirby but thats more to do with the lies that have been told and the stadium design.

Elstone is waving the white flag because he really is desperate. Pretending everything will be ok isn’t going to help attract investors either as I’m sure they would take the time to look over our infrastructure and finances when considering a purchase.

As a planning consultant I can say that the proposal gaining approval from the local council is a major benefit to Everton and Tescoes plans. The community opposition to this proposal better have some very strong fact based arguments if they are going to stop it. While I can completely understand it emotion alone won’t stop it.

What would we expect Elstone to say? It really doesn;t matter what the outcome is? It really isn’t important if we move to Kirkby? Of course he’s going to phrase it as a life or death decision. The fact is that the Kirkby proposal is a shockingly bad idea on its face. It has never been properly explained why it is important to leave Liverpool for a declining and blighted suburb with a diminishing population. And the numbers - the once ’free’ stadium, the deal of the century, now costs 80 million pounds this time - have changed again. I am hoping the government does what the fans have been unable to do and put a stop to this obviously bad proposal in the worst interests of the club and the fans.

So we alienate half of whats left of our match going fanbase and go and play in a shed with 20-25,000 seat regularly empty . . .Hmm, good thinking, that’ll get us up with the big boys

This is what happens if your mug enough to give the go ahead to the most clueless board in football. Even when they told you they had no plan B

He?s basically come out and said that the approval of Desperation Kirkby will trigger the purchase of the Club by an investor. So firstly it?ll be an investor who has no clue about the history of the Club, the City, GP or any clue about the fans feelings or the feasibility of other options. And secondly, it?s been said all along that Desperation Kirkby is only a means to enable the board to sell up at a nice little earner for themselves, and Elstone is now admitting this.

I have always been passionately anti-Kirkby but am intelligent enough to realise that the Club has been run down to such an extent that, if a buyer is not attracted soon, we shall go into decline. The trouble is that, to an outsider, Everton at Goodison does not look much of a proposition. Other clubs are on offer who already have bright new grounds and what Arab sheik will give a fuck about what we won in the 1980s and before? It?s easy to talk, but I do think Elstone is telling it like it is for once. Talk about Evertonians being between a rock and a hard place!

I have to agree with you Connor. But you are overlooking our main selling points ? David Moyes signed to a long contract and the scintilating football the team dishes up week-in, week-out... What Arab sheik could possibly resist buying a team with the glamour and silky skills of Phil Neville and Jagielka?

CEO of Everton paints a stark picture of Everton?s future in support of highly flawed ground move shocker!

Pity he provides no reasoning to support his wild claims...

More of the same propaganda from our esteemed club leaders.

Shame on them.

I am opposed, totally, to DK. I have a gut feeling that the plan will move ahead though.

One of my fears is that, given that we don?t sell out Goodison anymore when we play the RS, in a 50k stadium we may end up being outnumbered by them in our home derby... Just how much humiliation do Kenwright et al want to heap on us?

I honestly don?t think the Board believe that Kirkby will get past the inquiry but because the useless idiots don?t have a Plan B they just have to go along with it. Elstone is only repeating the same guff that Wyness used to spout, what?s changed? It?s so boring now reading the same old shite coming out of the club.

Remember, as long as Kirkby looks like it?s in the offing, the Board don?t have to do anything about redevloping Goodison or finding another more suitable home within Liverpool?s city boundaries. Kenwright doesn?t even need to find investment because he keeps repeating his mantra: "investment will only come with Kirkby". Meanwhile, the club just keeps on becoming more rotten.

I am one of the many that voted "Yes" but would have considered the decisison more carefully had I known then what I know now.

I honestly believe that this is the real crime of the board. Of course they are going to overhype something they desparately want to sell to the fans, but to continue to use the result of the vote as a mandate when it is clear that so many of us have (potentially) changed our minds.

I do believe that Everton need a new stadium to move forward and to attract investors and I also believe that the permission will go through with the power and influence of Tesco and the support of the local council. I am certain that we will fill the ground when it comes as well because, when all is said and done, I am an Evertonian and I would travel to a shed in Lands End to watch them if I had to (although maybe not as regularly) and there are many many more like me.

The reality is that they now have their mandate and no amount of shouting and stamping of feet is going to change that. If anyone feels that strongly about it they should set up something like AFC Wimbledon or FC United.

I am an Evertonian and I will go to the Tescodome.

I have been reading your comments for weeks now, and I am so fed up with the KEIOC lot that I had to write in. Stop telling me, "there are other sites, redevelop Goodison," when you do not tell me were the hell EFC are going to get the money from to do it! It's so easy to say stay and do up GP, but we have no money to do it.

I only hope that, between the lines, we and RS are seriously examining the possibility of a joint stadium. It is the only way forward that ticks just about every box.

Before explaining why this is the best for all concerned, the musings of the anti-Kirkby brigade need to be shot down. If Everton was to consider staying at Goodison then we would have to make do with major disruption, greatly reduced capacity, more planning applications & battles, land purchase & re-settlement etc etc. And that’s all assuming that we had the money to fund such development, which, erm, we don’t.

I could live with Kirkby, if I really had to, because I can see the hole the club are in and I can appreciate (in the absence of a a trillionaire investor) the practical steps that are necesssary if we are to have ANY chance of staying competitive in the next decade. Kirkby would never be my first choice, but such is life. How many times in life do we get everything we want. For one last time, you Kirkby haters need to get real and try to understand the position the club is in.

To conclude on a positive note. If EFC and LFC are truly disregarding the option of a shared stadium, given the issues here of funding, capacity, future growth, prestige and our close proximity to each other, then they both need shafting.

IMHO a prestigious joint stadium would have investors falling over themselves. A stadium is solely a means to an end. It has to be filled with people to watch football matches & other events and to spend money on other things while they are there. The idea that a huge and prestigious arena, possibly the finest in the UK, would not encourage investors to look at either club is fatuous. Of course it would. It would, at a stroke, eradicate the single biggest obstacle to Everton’s development, i.e. the platform to support growth, in revenue and in prestige.

If, in their infinite myopic stupidity, both clubs spurn this opportunity then it would be shameful. It would also consign us lot to Kirkby and that lot still shedloads in debt and no man’s land.

Incidentally Elstone was simply doing his job. His brief is to deliver a platform for growth & stability. Goodison is not it. Kirkby, sadly, is the only game in town right now.

Alasdair
I think you?ll have plenty of room. I wonder if our children and granchildren will go there in future years

Paul Guy... and your point is?

Alan Kirwin

A joint stadium doesn't tick any box.

If you were told you had to leave your home, would you sooner have your own new place in Kirkby or share with someone you dont like in Anfield.

I think I would prefer my own place.

I wouldn't share a bag of chips with RS.

It is the only game in town because of this stupid exclusivity agreement and a complete reluctance to explore other options. I’ll be damned if we’re moving to Kirkby purely because our board are too lazy to look at other options.

On the groundshare issue, where do Everton find £200million to fund their half of it? If they could find that sort of money, why don’t they just do up Goodison? There’s no logic to the groundshare argument.

Simple truth is that, if we don't go to Kirkby, we shan?t go into a groundshare, we shan?t be going to build a ground somewhere else, we shan?t be going to re-develop Goodison... BUT we shall be going skint!

I don?t like it but no Kirkby means no new owner means administration for certain.

I will follow Everton no matter where they go.

Ian Edwards
I voted to move to Kirkby based on the information presented; if it had been an option, I would have to agree with Alan Kirwin and have voted for a ground share. This is a practical solution that I believe would move our club forward. If we were allowed another vote, based on current information I would vote against a move to Kirkby.

I have been a blue for going on 50 years and having worked with and have many friends who are reds. Beside the banter, I cannot understand the pure hatred that has built up between the minority of supporters.

Paul Gregory, I'm with you fella, if moving to Kirkby means Everton have the chance to carry on challenging the top teams year-in, year-out and also the possibility of a takeover, then I'm all for it because, as much as I love Goodison Park, in fairness the old lady is holding us back somewhat.

A genuine question: how long does Goodison Park have left? Long enough, say, for us to build an attractive side that will fill the ground each week, qualify for the Champions League and hence raise enough money to gradually redevelop the stadium? Not that long, eh?

I feel that we have been cynically manipulated towards Kirkby. The summer was a disgrace that moved the club backwards. On and off the pitch there is something seriously amiss. Is there really no other way?

The Kings Dock was ideal.

Scotland Road loop is nearly as good as the Kings Dock.

KEIOC.

Andy Crooks, you say "I feel we have been cynically manipulated towards Kirkby". Please tell me you wasn?t another Yes voter who would now vote No if they had another chance. If ever I felt the need to bang my head against a brick wall, it is when I hear this.

Although my heart says redevelop Goodison or build a ground closer to home, my head says we should seriously consider a ground share. Anything except Kirkby, a disaster waiting to happen.

I have to say that I wouldn’t want to groundshare with Liverpool.

As I implied earlier however, my opinion doesn’t really matter so long as the decisions being made are for the good of the club. If the board convinced me that a groundshare was the best option for the club’s long term future I would accept it (begrudgingly).

Phil Bellis - I honestly believe that future generations will go to Kirkby, because future generations won’t remember Goodison, just as we don’t remember Everton at Anfield or Stanley Park (and neither did my Grandad). In the meantime I will get a good choice of season ticket, an unobstructed view and hopefully a well financed, well run and successful team to support. I promise I’ll look out for the FC St Domingo results in the 18th tier as well!

Alasdair,
My concern is how few future youngsters in Liverpool will bother supporting an an out-of-town team stuck on a retail park when there is a local, in-your-face alternative. The club have already flown the white flag in terms of minimising our profile in the City ? now they are trying their damndest to physically remove us. You can see, as a match-goer, how apathy has broken out this season ? I know of many Blues who have stopped going to Goodison (and not because of obstructed views). Presumably, Kirkby won?t entice them and, more worryingly, any future support.

Alan Kirwin
I agree with you about a joint stadium but unfortunately as many more blues are coming round to the idea I think there are a number of blues and Reds who will never accept it and I dont believe the RS will want to dilute their potential with us competing with them in the same stadium.

On the subject of DK I have to totally disagree. The only reason we don't have other options is because we haven't looked for them and the board have rejected any approach from other parties.

Groundshare. State of the art stadium, same location, world clas stadium with evertn and liverpool villages either end of the stad.

Groundshare before Kirkby anyday.

Lewis, I didn?t have a vote on Kirby, as I don?t live in England and see only eight games a year. Had I had a vote, I would have been totally opposed. What I meant was that we appear to be being offered a rosy future at Kirby or disaster.

I believe that there is something sinister happening at our club. I don?t trust Bill Kenwright and feel that he hopes to make a few quid and remain as chairman. My question re, how long Goodison Park has left was actually genuine as I fear we are on a countdown to disaster.

I can’t wait to move to our new stadium. I think we will look back on all the moaning and unescessary worry we went through and laugh. Don’t get me wrong, I would love a billionaire to take us over and build us a 70’000 seater super stadium next to the Liver birds, but it aint going to happen and given a choice between an old stadium with poor income and DK then I choose DK.

If we move to Kirkby Everton FC will begin a slow decline into oblivion. Can?t you pro-Kirkby gang see this? I come from a large family of season ticket holders, and a large number of friends who are also season ticket holders. Out of 40 people, 2 said they will follow the Blues to Kirkby, 2 are unsure, while a staggering 36 will not be going anywhere near Kirkby. These are people who eat, sleep, and breathe Everton FC.

Finally, will one of you apologists for Kirkby explain to me how we are going to fill a 50,000-seater stadium miles away from our core fanbase, which is Merseyside, Wirral and North Wale swhen we can only muster just over 30,000 at our spiritual home?

Paul, the part time boys are dissapearing in their droves lately, so what do you think the extra journey and lack of transport and parking will do to our Wirral and North Wales contingent which adds to nearly half of our home support? I will tell you this, on a rainy Tuesday, Saturday morning kick off, a January Sunday, or a hungover Boxing Day, more and more will take the foreign channel in the pub and them 31,000 gates will drop even more before we even mention the staunch "I wont go there lads" and the lads who will give it a try but won't buy a season ticket. Where will they replace these lads from? The rugby areas close by?

This stadium will cripple our fan base and don't even get me on the corporate box shite, we have one of poorest fan bases in the country and the few hundred we have now are empty every home game and the corporate people want the vibrant city, not a retail park bordering Lancashire farms, gross mismanagement at the highest order mixed with a load of propaganda shite.

People have used the restricted view shit too, well guess what, the last two homes there were plenty of seats on offer, a good 8,000, if this goes tits up within weeks a plan B will appear, but at this moment too many people are still believing men who have done nothing but sell us lies for years.

Everton will not die, we have been here for 130 years, two world wars, Heysel and relegation, these are the words of losers who have shown the white flag in the city that was ours first, the City we have never shamed, our heritage is all we have these days to fight back with so don't destroy it, Kirkby will...

Paul Gladwell, spot on mate.

Paul Gladwell

You’re 100% right

Is footie success unquestionably about a clubs wealth ??

I know Chelsea?s example and to a lesser extent Blackburn in the 80s say yes, but I was thinking about Busby at ManU, Revie - Leeds, Nicholson-Spurs, Robson-Ipswich, Clough - Forest and Derby, Shankly - Liverpool and latterly Mourinho at Porto. Ordinary or indeed 2nd divison starting points.

I?m probably way out of touch now but it all seems so cosy. Present day pros, managers, pundits, journalists even some fans trot out the mantra; ?Can?t compete without the money.? So it?s acceptable to drift along, join the great consensus of playing one up front don?t seriously compete.

Looking at the names above I don?t believe it to be true. And as an Everton exile I raise the point because it breaks my heart to read some of the fans messages of despair. I hope that anyone of influence reading here notes the problems the continuance of this thread is causing.

It is an old adage but custodians and employees of EFC should know that reporting problems is not the same as solving them.

Sorry Andy, I just got the impression you were one of many who fell for the ?world class stadium virtually for nothing? crap only to realise that they had been conned.

Redeveloping Goodison is a non-starter

Can't wait for us to move to our new stadium.

Paul Guy you wrote
Stop telling me, "there are other sites, redevelop Goodison," when you do not tell me were the hell EFC are going to get the money from to do it! It?s so easy to say stay and do up GP, but we have no money to do it. I?ll tell you where the Club can get the money to start to redevelop GP. They can use the same money they need to raise to put into the Desperation Kirkby pot.

Problem solved.

Kenwright's killing this club in the most obvious way and I can't for the life of me understand why some of you believe and defend him. Fuck Off Kenwright, you're no fucking blue. All you're interested in is lining your own pockets.

Now, now, Mr Johnson... you can?t be coming on here and giving it down the banks to our True Blue leader. He may not be a lot of things but I think that crosses the line to insinuate in no uncertain terms that Bill is not a Blue. However, as far as the pocket lining goes... I couldn?t possibly comment.

Mike Homfray:

Q1) WHY !! ??

Q2) If they can find the money, even in installments for DK? why can’t they use it, again in installments to do up GP.

When you give me some answers, I will give you some more questions and thus we will proceed to true enlightenment and you will see the error of your ways

Future generations will have one team in the city of Liverpool to choose from. Those who are more adventurous can travel to Wirral or Knowsley to watch either Tranmere Rovers or Everton.
That's all I need to know. Hope the Public Inquiry blows this load of bollocks out of the water. Yes, I would like a shiny new stadium with no restricted views but not at any price. If the stadium gets the thumbs up from the Public Inquiry, we will have handed the city to Liverpool on a plate. Thanks very much, Mr Kenwright.

Dave Wilson,

Just because a few on TW and your mates down the pub and the cab driver and your milkman said ?they will never set foot in Kirkby? doesn?t mean half of all match goers will suddenly stop going or are you going to tell me that IT IS FACT, like so many people do. I disagree. I think most people aren?t that bitter, love the club and won?t have a tantrum, and go. I support our club whatever happens, that?s what I do, I?m an Everton Fan.

Derek, redeveloping GP would cost much more than our share for Kirkby so your point doesn?t hold much weight.

As for Kirkby residents moaning at the enquiry, you would have thought they would want that shithole done up. And I see the ever balanced view from our wonderful KEOIC coming through ?the ballot wasn?t legitimate... blah, blah, blah? I can?t believe they still go on about that, lol!

So, Mr Wilde, you want to move to a "shithole" do you? Who says it would cost more to redevelop Goodison? Would it be Mr Kenwright by any chance? I have no doubt you and me will carry on supporting the blues but what of the casual less-committed fan, not now but in 30 years time? Kenwright's argument is that we have to move to prosper. Can you see us prospering in Knowsley in 30 years time?

The big 4 would be nothing without the casual less-committed fan but being stuck in a sattelite town outside the city boundary will do nothing to encourage the casual fan, which is surley the whole point of the Kirkby move. The new stadium effect usually attracts up to 30% more bums on seats. I have no doubt that initialy this will be the case but in the long term the casual fan in Liverpool will have only one choice.

Some day Everton will be playing football in a run down stadium in a sattelite town. Make no mistake, Liverpool will get their new ground and make no mistake it will be the ONLY football stadium in the city of Liverpool. What sort of plan is that? Kirkby is very short-sighted and profitable to only a few in the short term. Liverpool must be laughing their bollocks off.

Damien Wilde

I don't get cabs, I don't have a milkman and niether did I say any fans would stop going, in fact your entire post is fabricated shite. Stop making things up you fool

Dave Wilson,

Stop getting your knickers in a twist you fool. Here?s what you posted:

"So we alienate half of what's left of our match going fanbase and go and play in a shed with 20-25,000 seat regularly empty... "

So you claim in your last post that you didn?t say fans would stop going, but in this post you?ve said half of all match goers will stop going and rather than have the usual 30-35 000 attendance, we?ll have 20-odd thousand.

So you clearly have said fans will stop going. So, no shite in there at all. You are either a liar or have some cognitive decline going on, probably a bit of both. Who?s the fool now?

Damien Wilde

Take 50,000... then take away 31,000 ? our current attendance (and falling) ? then even if no-one stays away, you are left with about 20,000 seats, simple maths, fool.

Alienating fans doesn't necessarily mean they will not go ? if that was the case, GP would be struggling big time now... Here?s the trick: try to figure out the difference between alienate and non-attendance, think you could manage that?

You?ll still be a fool of course.

I have always been against Kirkby because it is not right. The club only allow us access to any thing pro-Kirkby but more important is the future fans. I have had a good run and if my last few seasons are at Kirkby, I will go... but what about the children now coming up? Will they, not having been institutionalised into going to games, have the same pull to go to Kirkby? I doubt it. Kenwright keeps insisting he's a blue and it's the only option but what about him biting the bullet like jack Hayward and taking a loss to ensure the club is in safe hands in the city where we brought football too. The Shite want the liver bird to belong to them, if they can hang, on Billy Liar will give them the city.

Dave Wilson,

You are one of the biggest moaners on ToffeeWeb.

Changing what you meant now. You bang on about alienating fans and that less will attend (50 000 - 25 000 = 25 000), stop being afraid to sticking to what you meant lad.

Over recent years average attendances have varied. I haven?t checked out the figures, but I guess they're normally 35 000 or so, maybe a few years back 37 000 or so. It?s only been lately we?ve had such low gates as 31 000, so you can?t take that as a decent estimate of ?match goers?.

Even if we take your figures, 50 000 - 31 000 does not equal 20 000, it?s 19 000 Wilson, you're struggling with simple maths, you vacuous numpty. First it was 20-25 000, now it?s ?about 20 000?, what is it next ?about 19 000?. Keep posting Dave, I need a kip.

Damien Wilde

Keep making up what you want, but I said alienate and I meant alienate. Not my fault your limited vocabulary can't distinguish between what I said and what you think I said.

In anyone's book 19,000 is about 20,000... I havent laughed so much at anyone since you took the piss out of someone who said we?d miss Lee Carsley.

Keep the half witted post coming. You have your kip son, I'm off to the game