Dominic, I am going to ask the other Toffeeweb regulars to go easy on you as this is either a wind up or you are a seriously misguided Everton fan.

As I write I am watching Tim Howard help USA to a 2-0 lead against Brazil in a tournament where the US keeper has played a large part in helping his country to reach the final.

Over the years he has grown in confidence as a Premier League and International keeper and is regarded as one of the best in the world in his position.

I for one hope that he stays at Everton for many years to come.

As an ex-goalie myself, i would agree that Howard does have his faults namely failure to command te 6-yard box sometimes and a worrying tendency to be beaten from distance. However, in all my time following the Blues, I?ve probably only seen two or three better, namely Southall, West and (possibly) Martyn.

How you can say that a superb goalie might have earned us another 20 points is beyond me... although I would agree that he should have saved Lampard?s winner in the FA Cup Final.

The fact is that there aren?t too many spare Cechs, Reinas, Van de Saars available at the moment and the top Spanish / Italian keepers would be outside our price range.

So if your Kiev keeper is as good as you say he is, how come he hasn?t been snapped up by one of the Champions League elite?

It's only half time, but 2-0 up against Brazil having already beaten ?the best team in the world? 2-0 means that the USMNT must be getting something right.

Come to think of it, they look a lot like us ? except that their passing out of defence is truly world class.

Decent keeper though.

"A superb goalie will land us 20 extra points"

Are you serious, do you honestly think Howard cost us 20 points, 20, I mean 20 points, honestly.

So you think there were 7-10 games in which Howard resulted in us losing games instead of drawing, and surrendering victories? 20 points is ridiculous.

Besides, Howard is a very respectable goalkeeper. An excellant shot-stopper and makes only a couple of mistakes a season.

Cech has contributed a few howlers in his time, as has Reina and Van der Sar (the 3 top keepers in the country). Casillas and Buffon also make some terrible mistakes, as did Southall and Schmeichel. It happens, goalies make errors.

What makes this Kiev bloke so fantastic? If he is so fantastic why is he available for £5M? and why arent Arsenal, Barca, Man U etc (top clubs who need new keepers) after him? I've never seen or heard of him before. Can he cope with he pressure of Premier League football?

That's the key issue with keepers: if they make a mistake, do they lose their confidence or forget about it and move on? In Howard we have a keeper who can handle the pressure and who, if you ever hear the defenders in interviews, marshalls them very much, and is key in our defences organisation. On top of that, he has the key attributes of being an excellent shot stopper, someone who produces world class saves and while not being fantastic, is generally reliable on crosses (there is not one keeper in the world who?s weakness isn?t crosses, the development of the football is key to this).

We have our best keeper since big Nev (Martyn was fantastic, but was always short term due to age... if only we'd got him at 25). He ain't our best keeper ever, but Big Nev was the best in the world. It?d be like saying lets get rid of Arteta, he?s no way near as good as Alex Young.

All in all, I think spending money on a wide creative midfielder will earn us a few more points than Howard will lose us next season.

There are plenty of keepers in the premiership better than him, Tim looks good thanks, Jags, Lescott, and Yobo .

I do not like him, I felt Lampard’s goal was soft and I have a number of times voiced my concerns over his ability to perform consistently on this website. He does make some shockers that at times let the team down and then will make a couple of fine saves when the blow is dealt and it’s too late.

Over the weekend I went to a neighbours birthday party and while I was there I was chatting to an Oxford United fan!! He likes Everton (most people don’t seem to hate us) and said the problem with Everton is Howard - to quote "he is a bit too David James to warrant a place in a top 5 team." I had to agree.

BTW it is now BRAZIL 2 - usa 2 and I ask anyone to explain what Timmy was doing for that second goal!!!

Wow, an Oxford fan at your neighbour’s birthday party said so, must be true.

Howard is pretty much the opposite of David James, James had/has a huge presence, did spectacular things and made big saves, whereas Howard is a quietly solid, reliable goalkeeper who does little outstanding, but also little wrong. There are a lot of good American keepers around, and Howard is consistently selected as the best.

His one big weakness is the number of long range shots he lets in that look saveable, however, Lampard’s goal came round a defender, so was difficult to judge. It also is not down to Howard that we lost that game, they were a lot better than us.

Bravo, Fran. You put Dominic back in the kennel very thoroughly, and more politely than I would have.

As for you, Thomas, I?ve read your silly whimpers before about how Jags and Lescott should get all the credit for Everton?s defensive success. Now consider yourself challenged. You say Howard "makes some shockers" that "let the team down." Name them. Go ahead, tell us the games where he failed us and the goals that qualify as "shockers"... not just the ones like Lampard?s that he might have stopped, but the real howlers. Back what you say, if you can. And when you can?t, put the pacifier back in and go sit quietly in the corner while I come back at you with all the great saves he made this season with the game on the line.

By the way, every media report from all over the world about today?s Brazil game is saluting Howard?s brilliance. But you and your birthday party playmates know better, don?t you? Spare me.

Big Nev would not have saved Lampard?s shot. Most likely because he is out of the game about 10 years plus now, a bit out of shape and the wrong side of 45.

Listen, big Nev was one in a million, you have to do with what you have or what you can afford. Howard has his faults but he is not bad considering what's out there. If there is money to spend then a new goalkeeper is not a priority for a few years.

Hopefully Howard will find linesmen as generous next season as the one who agreed with him over Kaka's header which by no means crept over the line!'

Surely you cannot be serious. Nobody who has watched Howard playing in the Confederations could claim he was anything but excellent.

He is an excellent shotstopper, who is very experienced has played tons of big games, he is an unbelievable athlete (as a completely unrelated aside he has been selected for the Harlem Globetrotters- world famous USA basketball showboats, trust me that is NOT easy to achieve) yes he does make mistakes, but so do all keepers.

While I agree Howard should have saved that shot, surely that one half-mistake can’t be a reason to want him out. In addition, he is a very nice bloke and a very expressive and communicative goalkeeper on the pitch things which are much needed.

Shovkovskiy is 34 years old, has only ever played in Ukraine, and his 16 years at Dinamo Kiev hardly suggest that any big clubs are after him. He’s looked OK when I’ve seen him play, but doesn’t speak English and only has experience playing in or for Ukraine. And you want us to sell our established reliable goalkeeper and take a £5m punt on him.

Why?

Dominic, I could not disagree more. I think Howard is extremely solid and is spectacular especially in short range stops.
His line may be off occassionally and yes, he might attempt to control the 6-yard box more. The control of the box, or lack thereof, seems to occur when he?s sliding in confidence. But from what I?ve seen he regains that confidence after a relatively short time span. He bosses the defense. He?s solid. Plain and simple. I?m actually shocked someone would call for his removal. Stunned.

I wonder aloud if it?s due to his being American. We are definately viewed in many quarters as sub-par. And frankly rightfully so in many instances. But the US is producing a hell of a lot of talent these days, and Howard arguably leads the bunch.

This guy is such a tank ? so reliable. So athletic. I'm speechless...

Agree that, after Southall, Martyn and West (in that order), Howard comes next in terms of the best over, say, the past 40 years. Also agree with the sentiment that, whilst not in the top 5, Howard is in the top half of the keepers in the PL. I do think, however, that we would have been better served had we got Schwarzer at the start of last season - he is manifestly better in all aspects than Tim Howard and went to Fulham on a free FFS.

Must be the heat, driving the crazies into the open.

Maybe we should re-sign Tricky Dicky?

So I guess all those clean sheets last season were pure luck.

Apart from Martyn’s stint between the posts, Howard is by far the best keeper we have had since Big Nev.

I think we need to focus our transfer efforts on a Right Back, Some pace out wide and an enforcer to replace Neville in midfield.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1084539/Ton-Tim-Howard-honoured-follow-Everton-legend-Neville-Southalls-footsteps.html

I think this article helps sort this out... maybe not better than Nev overall, but not bad!

Ha ha ha ha. Nice on Dominic. You’ve got a few people going on here. Howard has a few faults but he is still one of the best goalies in the prem.

Silly boy.

The article was bollocks enough. But the inclusion of "Nietzschean bermesch" confirms it as pure enimata. Get a grip lad.

He stunk agianst Pompey at home

He was an embarressment at Stoke, both goals.

He conceded a ridiculous goal from an acute angle against City ? he only had to stand still.

Was beaten by Gerard's powder-puff effort at Anfield ? again near post.

Totally capitulated against the big men such as Carew and Crouch ?costing us points at Villa and Fratton park.

Not to mention other clangers which went unoticed because we actually won the game ? Stoke at home.

He cost us the Cup.

Was dropped by the yanks, but got back in again to cost them a Cup too...

And is beaten by seemingly every long-range effort that's fired at him.

But hey, What have the Romans ever done for us?

This guy's shortcomings have been masked by a superb defence, he will never be a top keeper ? just ask SAF.

It?s funny that Dave because I saw Jagielka heading into his own goal against Stoke.

I also saw Osman not bothering to close down his man to stop the cross allowing Chelsea?s first goal whilst Lescott didn?t bother jumping to stop Drogba heading in. Hardly Howrd?s fault. We never looked like scroing again after that.

All the best keepers do well because of the defence in front of them. Van der Saar?s record only came about this season because of Man U?s defence. It?s nonsense suggesting he?s not one of the best keepers in the league. For every mistake there?s about 10 games he?s kept us in or won for us.

I think Howard is good for the top 4 and easily top 5 in prem GKs.

Let?s be honest, he would walk into the Arsenal starting 11!

What about Mark Schwarzer?

The mind boggles at the total and utter bollocks that gets submitted here sometimes... Howard = Good Enough. End of.

HAHA, Dave, this HAS to stop.

My particular Howard moment was that 35-yarder against Drogba... poor positioning, as usual.

Howard is an average keeper ? a parsons egg again ? some good some bad. Certainly not in the top 5 keepers in the Premier League regardless.

Sorry Alan, can't have that.

I saw a backpedling stretching Jagielka head into his own goal too, but any goalie worth his salt would have cleaned out the attacker, Jakielka and the ball. Howard, just as when he played against Carew and Crouch, didn't stand up to be counted. When a throw is dropped under a keepers crossbar, he is the man responsible.

I also saw a 25-yard effort from Lampard that an alehouse goalkeeper would have saved, Most people will blame Hibbert, who was sitting in the stands but Howard cost us the cup alright.
If Moyes has to part with Lescott, he should insist Given comes here as part of the deal.

By the way, Alan, these games Howard won us, which ones were they?

Some people are so incredibly deluded. I presume you’ve been watching a different player to the one that kept the USA in the Confederations Cup then?

I think Howard has really improved over the seaons he has played for us, and is a really good keeper. Out of interest, we have been linked with Joe Lewis on Sky Sports...

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11764_5405892,00.html

I was at the West Ham game, the last home game of the season. My season ticket is in the Park End. I saw the shot for their goal all the way to the back of the net. While it was a well executed shot, it hardly wavered and I fully expected Howard to save it. He didn?t. Similarly, Lampard?s goal in the Final should have been saved.

Howard does make great saves occasionally but so do all goalkeepers. What really counts is overall competence in all aspects of a goalkeeper?s responsibilities which, if the overall level is high, lends confidence to the entire defence. Howard does not instill me with confidence, never mind the defence.

Howard has too many weaknesses for me. He doesn?t boss the area as he should (Big Nev used to ?foul? his own team-mates if he thought they were in the way!) and he has a definite weakness with shots from range. It is almost as if the longer he has to make his plans, the more likely it is it will go awry.

The clean sheets ?record? stuff is neither here nor there for me because that is not necessarily all down to the goalkeeper. I think we need a better goalkeeper. We may never find another Nev, but we do need a better minder than Howard. I have been saying that all season.

As for Howard?s achievements in the Cons Cup... anybody remember Tomaschevsky, the goalie who ensured Poland qualified for the ?74 World Cup at England?s expense? Cloughie was right... he was a clown... but he just had one of those games. It didn?t make him a good keeper, never mind a great one!

>>>The mind boggles at the total and utter bollocks that gets submitted here sometimes... Howard = Good Enough. End of. <<<

Well said David Gallant.

Hands up those on here who believe that with his undoubtedly meagre transfer budget, Moyes?s energies should be focused on finding a replacement keeper for Howard? I mean really, can you honestly say that is our area of greatest need?

Nope didn?t think so... NEXT!

I’m happy enough with Tim.

He undoubtedly works his nuts off looking to improve.

He’s passionate and professional and it’s hard to argue with his clean sheet record.

That said, if DM said "There’s a new keeper’s course called ’The coming off your line and using your height and weight to plough through everyone and grab anything in the box, goalkeepers course’ and I’m sending Tim" I’d think, that can’t hurt.

Perhaps you don’t go to many games then Dave or perhaps you don’t understand how a defensive unit works. You can’t say Howard’s clean sheet record is all down to the players in front of him. Any player who’s ever played the game even at "alehouse" level will tell you how well the defence plays depends very much on the confidence they have in the man between the sticks. Remember how dodgy our defence was with Dicky Wright in nets when Howard was out injured? Remember how shit they suddenly looked when Wessels went in last season? Remember the capitulation against Man U the year Manny scored a cracker after Turner dropped a clanger?

He does have his faults and long shots do catch him out on occasions. Can you please tell me who is better and within Everton’s price range? Dave, were you one of the people saying we should sell Cahill last year? Are there any other crucial members of the squad that don’t meet your expectations?

Bit Harsh...

Southall was for goalkeeping what Dixie was to goalscoring... one of the best ever!

How many keepers in the world can compete with that?

Howard is a top keeper who needs adequate competition. If he knew his place was genuinely in doubt his errors would cease.

Further with the threat of losing Lescott, the absence of Jagielka and selling Howard for a £5Million no-mark, Moyes would have to be an arse to decontruct one of the best defenses in the country!

Rest your head son.

I?ll go along with the consensus that Howard has his weaknesses but is generally good enough for what we can afford right now, with higher priorities elsewhere but I do have to take exception to two suggestions made:

Schwarzer? Yes again, a very good keeper, certainly better than Howard with crosses but also the dropper of the odd clanger or two!

And as for Dave Wilson?s suggestion of Given! Well again a decent keeper but lacks height and spring. Amd with all City?s millions, they surely should have done better! So for me, Schwarzer would be no better and Given would be a backward step.

I see the abominable Howard won the Golden Gloves award at the Confederation Cup.

Some interesting ignorances on here, especially the talk of ?good enough for the top 4 (or 5)? which I?m finding extremely odd mainly due to the fact that many of the best goalkeepers in the Prem don?t play for top 4 teams.

Howard certainly has his noticeable limits (as do all our players actually, and will do for the foreseeable future) but I?d rather have him than Van der Sar and Almunia. Someone accused Howard of being carried by his centre backs but that?s certainly been true of Van der Sar at times. Van der Sar has been James-esque this season, often brilliant and dominating, too often nervy and mistake-ridden. He might be a 9 or 10 out of ten but he might have a mare and be a 5 out of ten. Howard is pretty much a 7 every game, with the occasional 8 and the very rare occasional 6. I can think of only Gerrard?s goal that was a full on howler, although I accept there were other times when he should have done better.

Cech and Reina are probably the two best goalkeepers in the Prem (despite Cech being slightly shaky at times this season, he certainly isn?t what he was) and Schwarzer, Friedel and Jaskelainen all stand out. Given gets a lot of praise because he?s spent so long behind shite defences making amazing saves, I?m not so sure he?s any better at dominating/organising than Howard.

Among the English, James was woeful last season, Carson is permanently woeful and Rob Green is capable of some of the worst goalkeeping you?ll see in the top division (as well as occasionally some of the best). Robinson?s never recovered from the World Cup, and the others lost their places at times.

Gomes was a laughing stock for a while, Sorensen?s nowt spesh and Myhill lost his place to an actual alehouse goalkeeper for a while.

All of which leads me to the opinion that Howard is probably top 5 in the Prem, and definitely top 10. Another point in his favour is that a lot of defending is about communication and knowing each other ? our defensive record seems to suggest that whatever they?re doing is working; signing a new goalkeeper would mean starting all that again.

The ultimate clincher is the fact that we desperately need at least two starting XI players in other positions, a new goalkeeper would be way, way down my list of priorities.

And to finish off, Shovkovskiy is a ridiculous shout, for reasons explained well enough above.

Thank you Dave Wilson, you have highlighted what I've been thinking all season!!

Alan Clarke

Firstly, I have a season ticket and I?ve missed one home game in five seasons (a family wedding); I also attend 3 or 4 away games a season. I went to the Semi and the FA Cup Final. So you are wrong... I do attend a lot of games.

Secondly, I don?t know why you brought Tim Cahill into it because this thread is about Howard... but for the record I was not amongst those calling for his head last season or at any other time.

Finally, I do understand the effect that keepers can have on defences but I also understand that familiarity can mask and mitigate those overt effects. You know... ?better the devil you know? and all that.

If you attend many games or played in alehouse and workplace teams as I did for 20 years, you will know that a mere CHANGE of goalkeeper can negatively affect a defence, even if the new goalkeeper ultimately proves to be better! It?s that familiarity thing again.

I repeat, Howard makes too many mistakes for me with shots from distance the near post or otherwise but most pertinently he does not command his area like all competent or ?top? goalkeepers must. I am not sure he would even have been at Everton if Martyn?s career had not ended so abruptly.

Hello Blues of the ancien regime,

1) I did not say that Howard is a poor goalkeeper. However I did question is consitency. And yes: I do not understand some Evertonians’ enthusiasm for Tim.

2) When i suggest that a superb goalie will land us 20 extra points, it does not mean that I accuse Howard of costing us 20! Is logic dead?

3) I do not appreciate the defeatism voiced by some here, i.e. "he is the best we can afford, given our tight transfer budget." We are Everton; our aim must be to compete with the best. With a fair amount of shrewdness on the transfer market, we can get the players we want for the right price.

4) Some of you guys never look beyond the Channel do you? Did it ever occur to you that there might be plenty of decent goalies out there on the continent? I know of at least eight goalies in the Bundesliga, who would outperform Howard anyday-anytime.

Alan to answer your question, I do get to a lot of games and the reason I was able to make such an incredibly long list of Howard howlers ? I?ve thought of a couple more since my original post ? is because I witnessed them, albeit through my fingers. If I dont know how a defensive unit works, then neither does SAF, He knew Howard would cost him trophies, Moyes knows it too ? now

The guy is half-decent on his day, but what pro goalie isn't? Despite heroic defending, he nearly cost us the cup-tie at Anfield, he very nearly cost us the cup-tie against Boro and he eventually cost us the final.
If your happy with him, fair play to you... but I noticed when challenged to name the "many" games you say he won for us, you couldn't name any.

I tend to agree with Dominic. Ferguson clearly didn't think him good enough. He?s not a patch on Southall or Martyn. He does get beaten a lot from distance and any shot at over head height seems to see him flap at with hands together rather than push away at full stretch with one hand. Brazil?s winning goal for instance.

And now is the time to sell him. There will be plenty of know-nothing club chairmen out there willing to pay silly money for him after his performances in the Confederation Cup.

Whilst Howard may not be the best around, we have to be realistic. The facts are these:

1. We don?t have much money this summer.

2. There?s other areas of the team that need strengthening more than GK.

Therefore, unless someone makes a decent bid for Howard and adds to Moyes?s budget, he?ll be our number one for the foreseeable future.

If Moyes DID have money to buy a keeper, I?d love to see Jussi Jaaskelainen bought.

Which eight goalkeepers from the Bundesliga?

I notice you haven't addressed the question of why Shovkovskiy? A 34-year-old, who has only played in the Ukraine, and *doesn?t speak English* doesn?t seem an obvious choice to play in a position which involves a lot of communication. We?ve seen the problems Pavlyuchenko has had communicating at Spurs, imagine that from a keeper, and not one who would have time to settle and learn the language as a future first choice- an instant first choice as you would have sold his predecessor!

Hello Richard:

1) We are not hiring Mr Shovkovsky as a barrister. Which lengthy monologues is he to deliver on the pitch?

2) Pavluchenko is another player I would love to see in the Royal Blue. Redknapp is crazy enough to swap Pavlo for Yakubu. Didn?t Hiddink say he didn?t understand why Pavlo isn?t playing?

3) To name my top 5: Adler, Benaglio, Weidenfelder, Neuer, Enke.

So Dave according to what you’re saying, if I played in goals all season, eventually the defence would become familiar with me and we’d become a good defensive unit? It doesn’t matter how many times Wright played in nets for us, our defensive record was still shite. The only thing the defenders were familiar with were his absolute howlers every week.

I realise it’s petty of me to question you’re allegiance but if you went to all those games you say you’ve been to then surely you’ve seen Howard save our arses on many occasions? Everton’s style under Moyes means we’re always last ditch in our defending meaning Howard is called on to make a lot of saves in a game. We hardly ever win by more than 1 goal. The West Brom home game would have been a complete embarressment without Howard. You completely underestimate his contribution to the team.

I only mention Cahill because I’m as perplexed by your suggestion that Howard is as utter shite as you say he is, as I am with those theories last summer that Cahill should be sold.

And it was Yobo’s fault for the goal in the cup game against Boro, not Howard’s. But once you’ve got it in your head that someone’s shite, they’re pretty much at fault for everything. I know because I feel the same way about Osman.

If there were eight better keepers than Howard in the Bundesliga, at least a couple would be playing in the Premiership now!

Actually Alan, Everton's style under Moyes is to play at least one, usually two defensive midfielders; they as well as the wide men are instructed to graft like fuck to stop the opposition even getting at our back four., When they do get at our back four, we?re usually very solid; if they get past our back four... they usually score.

Ok I?m going too far, point taken about Osman, I?m probably being a little unkind to Howard here.