The Mail Bag
The Entertainment Industry
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Tony Harsh's latest hit piece on David Moyes, entiltled The Peoples Snub, makes the dubious claim that football is part of the entertainment business. It's a statement he made following two successfully drab 1-0 wins on the bounce. Whilst his articles are always a must-read, and I for one find them entertaining, on this he is totally missing the point. That football is a tough, physical athletic challenge, which just happens to be entertaining to those who choose to watch it.
So bad was it that he considered spending his money elsewhere, rather that being bored at Goodison. Now, at the risk of stating the obvious, our football over recent weeks hasn't been pretty but, in terms of the contests, it has been effective. When a team is struggling, and confidence is low, other qualities are required; concentration, tenacity, bottle and fight. In short: pragmatism.
Sitting, as we were, in and around the relegation zone prior to the Bolton match, how Marsh can expect School Of Science wonderment is beyond me. There is no law that requires football to be entertaining.
Confidence leads to flair play, and you can't expect that until the side starts a useful winning streak, which has to be ground out in what were stressful circumstances. Maybe against Boro' at the weekend, an early goal might reinforce belief, and the confident swagger will return.
Kevin Hudson, Posted 10/11/2008 at 12:28:44
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If we were Man Utd right now Hanson (Doo-wap) would be creaming his pants and saying that this is the sign of a really great team, that they can win when playing badly and ugly. Now’s not the time for recriminations, now’s the time to reinforce the new-found confidence by getting behind the team.
COYB!
The point was that "effective" football wins matches. Secondly, quality play is not often forthcoming if the confidence isn?t there to begin with. At Bolton and Fulham, the players had to scrap hard to earn the points, and it wasn?t pretty, but it was job done.
The so called School of Science was as daft a catchphrase as The Peoples Club. We have always had one or two excellent flair type players, Alex Young, Roy Vernon, Alan Ball, Colin Harvey, Duncan Mackenzie to name but a few. The overwhelming number of players have been no-nonsense dogged team players. We have always ground out results. It?s always been our way from Catterick to Moyes.
I can recall every manager from Catterick to Moyes, including Kendall who has been slagged for grinding out boring results. Please don?t come on here and try and rewrite history. Yes the present group can improve dramatically. But remember maybe you were one of the 15,000 or so with me who was calling on Kendall to be sacked and Reid, Stevens, Gray etc etc to be booted out the team. Things change. Note history, don?t try and change it.
I doubt Arsenal were brimming with confidence on Saturday morning...
The fact is that you can?t expect to play good football with players who are limited.
Personally, I think we have the players to actually play reasonable football.... however, the manager seems to be the weak link in that chain at the moment.
I have watched us for most of my 35 years and last year for a spell was the best I?ve ever seen us play. I?m confident that those players will rediscover that form soon as in many ways with Saha and Fellaini we have better players.
The much-maligned Jagielka and Neville have been the mainstays of the defence when the going has got tough ? especially Jags, who has been heroic. But football is supposed to be a game of skill as well as effort... I played semi-pro and the standard in the past few weeks has not been any better. The difference is effort and fitness, that's all.
I'm a fervent BLUE who wants us to play on TV and ENTERTAIN every football fan and sometimes play sides off the park with ability. The fans have been very quiet at Goodison and all it needs is some real ability combined with spirit and effort to get them roaring again. Please don't wear those blue glasses, watch the games objectively without showing stupid bias!!
I beg to differ over your analysis of our footballing history. Yes the Catt, Kendall ground out results at times but it is our fundemental attitude that has changed. FFS John are you saying throughout the 60s 70s and 80s we simply launched the ball forward and played five in midfield at home. I have no problem with being dogged and determined but unless my memory fails me, Evertonians demanded that we actually attempted to attack the opposition. Too many people at this club are too easily pleased with mediocre football.
I think thats a slight on Gordon Lee his teams played with more adventure than Moyes do!
As for the ’School of Science’, that is a nickname we acquired circa 100 years ago when we applied a methodical approach to training (something last supported 40+ years ago when the indoor facilities at Bellfield were unveiled).
Old nicknames should be consigned to history when times move on - just as we have in the past with others, like ’the Black Watch’ (when all the players dyed their multifarious strips black so as to look the same) and ’Moonlight Dribblers’ (when we were the first to train in the evening under floodlights).
Before you slag off Lee. I suggest you go and check out his win % opposed to Moyes and the number of goals scored under Lee and compare it to man of the people Moyes. He did bring us third and fourth finishes and we were actually competing for the title not competing for fourth place. He bought Dave Thomas as well.
Can I suggest you read John Milligans post again. Its not as you claim "a load of bollocks" its actually an accurate account of the past 40- 50 years
Do you really think 4-5-1 has to be negative and that Moyes introduced it ?
Just so you know. The most entertaining Everton team ever, lined up 4-5-1, FORTY YEARS AGO
Catterick would play ;
Husband and Moggsy either side of Ball, Kendal and Harvey all five had license to get forward and support big Joe, as too did John Hurst, who regularly weighed in with a goal.
4-5-1 negative ?
See if you can focus on that. It’s not hard.
All you have to do is remind yourself how they played when you and I and plenty of other Evertonians were gushing about the football they produced between October and February last season.
Then answer this simple question: Where did it all go so wrong?
My post was relevant, Too many people have the idea that Moyes invented this "boring formation" I was trying to put to bed the idea that 4-5-1 has to be negative
The Article questions whether football is in the entertainment business, Entertainment can come in many forms and many would agree a good old blood and guts cup tie can be every bit as enjoyable as one for the purist.
You state that nobody gives a toss about the past, ok lets talk about the present. Saturdays match provided High drama and moments of delirium few present will forget.
I didnt want Moyes, to re-sign, nor will I forgive his fuckaroundary this summer, But he’s here so I’ll support him.
Now here’s a simple question for you to ask yourself.
What purpose do you think your habitual bellyaching is serving ?
See if you can focus on that. It?s not hard.
All you have to do is remind yourself that they are the same group of players playing under the same manager that you and I and plenty of other Evertonians were gushing about last season
Where did it all go wrong."
Lets wait and possibly ask that question at the end of the season question
No doubt, Spurs, Geordies, Man City, Pompey and most other supporters will be asking the same question
Patience is a virtue many do not have.
But there are plenty of us who watch and comment after every match as we see fit: always have, always will. At the end of the season, we’ll talk about how the season ended. Right now, we’ll talk about the last game, current form, how we’ve played since the start of the season, etc etc.
It’s not about patience ? what you are calling for is abstinence! I suggest you pull out a history book while you wait quietly until the season ends, and read up on what happened to the Temperance Movement.
As per your first paragraph, no problem. I shall comment no more. However it seems a great pity that people who have, or try to have a more balanced point of view. Even an opposite point of view to your own are asked by the Executive Editor to take no part in discussion on this site. A sad day I think sounds a bit like the board at the recent EGM. If you don?t like it change the rules.
Could you be any more patronising? When you say nobody cares, what you really mean to say is you don?t care. A fair amount of the people on here care about the history and the motto... they use it to lambaste the current incumbents at every opportunity.
In 6½ years, DM has continued with formations that are well known and pre-empted by opposition managers and players far too often; he needs to be able to evolve with the game and develop tactics that can change from game to game ? and even within a game ? rather than stubbornly sticking to a formation that simply isn?t working until far to late in a game to make a difference, that?s the rocket science of a great tactical manager.
Of course history matters, I think you are a little harsh on John even though I too disagree with him. To all those who think Moyes is a great Everton manager, just go and compare his record against others, the info is on this site!
No-one was more pleased than me when we had that 3-4 month spell last season, when we actually started to pass the ball on the ground. It's certainly history now as Moyes has regressed to his default style of playing the percentages. I don't care how many points we have picked up over the last three games, we have been shite and very lucky and we all know it.
A guy from Dumbarton for £185k.......
a certain Greame Sharp
I love this "balanced point of view" shit ? it?s only "balanced" because it?s yours... and like all of us, you are hardly likely to admit to being unbalanced in your views. We really don?t need such gratuitous jibes that demean the opinions of the rest of us, and twist my words to suggest I am excluding you (the truth is it was YOU who suggested abstinence for others, lest you have forgot already!).
I don?t have much time for anyone who wants to set their own particular limits to the discussion on these pages. This is a free forum for those who wish to debate a wide range of Everton-related issues... NOW! ? not store it all up until the end of the season. You can participate or not: it?s your choice.
Jay Wilson,
"A fair amount of the people on here care about the history and the motto... they use it to lambaste the current incumbents at every opportunity."
I don't think they do. Comparisons to teams of the past primarily come from people who claim that those of us requesting a higher playing standard are craving for the 80s or some such nonsense. They completely miss point that it's about the CURRENT players playing closer to the level of ability we KNOW they possess and that they have already demonstrated under the current manager. We're not asking for much... we're really not.
But my, how the tenor of our individual and collective voice has changed over the past nine or ten months. And three wins on the trot don?t seem to be having much of a positive effect on us. I actually wondered for a moment if Obama?s triumph would have an uplifting effect on the Toffee Nation. Apparently not. What a fool I am.
Personally, I?ve almost forgotten the near torturous first 80 minutes at Upton Park. For the moment, I?d rather savour the delicious and wholly unexpected surprise I experienced during the last ten minutes. That taste may turn sour in less than a week, so uninspiring is this team these days. But, without hope, what have we got besides memories of Sharpie at Anfield and Trebilcock, Temple and Eddie Cavanagh at Wembley?
COYB!!!
I would like "fuckaroundary" to be used in a complete sentence before we pass judgement on its inclusion in to the lexicon of Evertonians.
And 4-5-1 is a state of mind not a formation. It would be better with a right back and a left back of serious crossing ability, but we don?t exactly have that, yet somehow we are 7th and playing for Europe again.
....possibly because I just got my Canadian Fuckin? PASSPORT and am shaking too much to think.
For not only am I five or six months away from seeing my Gran and my aunts, uncles and cousins for the first time in twenty years... not to mention my birthplace (Billinge Hospital), childhood home and Paris!!!!, but sometime in April or May I will be standing on Goodison Road and crying uncontrollably.
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1 Posted 10/11/2008 at 14:27:22
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But, there?s also little doubt that good football wins more matches...so there?s the rubicon.
p.s ?Confidence leads to flair play?? Er... no it doesn?t... Quality players lead to flair play...