You forgot the perfect assessment/put-down: "jumped-up PE teacher". For anyone out there who had to suffer the trials and tribulations of "hard work", courtesy of "Jessie" James as Calday Grange... well, need I say more!

I agree Andy 100%, Moyes is an absolute clown and utterly clueless, but stand by Andy for the "Well who are we gonna get then brigade".

If David Moyes hasn’t lost the dressing room , than god help us when he does. This current team lacks everything , no passion , no skill , no idea and no leader.

Moyes’ gut reaction in the summer that he has been here too long is correct and he should do the honourable thing and resign immediately.

Was it only 12 months ago that we were basking in the afterglow of a 7-1 demolition of Sunderland.?

This season’s PL is turning out to be 5 teams fighting for Europe and the other 15 trying to avoid relegation.

We shall see at White Hart Lane on Sunday just how far we have fallen in 12 months , compare (regardless of the outcome of the match) the way the 2 sides play , one with width, pace and panache the other narrow laboured and predictable.

If they couldn’t motivate themselves last night , despite nearly every weekend result (we thought) going in their favour , then what hope is there when they look at the table in the new year and find themselves in the lower reaches?
David Moyes! seven years on the not so magic roundabout is long enough to realise you are going to leave us exactly where you found us.

I dont know how anyone can defend Smith.

I think anyone could have taken over that Rangers team after Souness left in the mid 90’s and led them to success.

When Smith took over here, he given a fair old wedge of cash for those days, and in his 1st 3 months he bought: 12 Oct 1998 Ibrahima Bakayoko Montpellier £4.5M
29 Sep 1998 Carl Tiler Charlton Athletic £700k
23 Sep 1998 Steve Simonsen Tranmere Rovers £1.5M
23 Sep 1998 Graham Allen Tranmere Rovers £300,000
31 Jul 1998 David Unsworth Aston Villa £3M
29 Jul 1998 Chris Woods Burnley Free
29 Jul 1998 John Collins AS Monaco £2.5M
27 Jul 1998 Olivier Dacourt RC Strasbourg £4M
15 Jul 1998 Marco Materazzi Perugia £2.5M


Make up your own mind on the quality vs money spent ratio.

Better get used to this fella’s, as thanks to Kenshite we can’t afford to sack Moyes for another 4 years, 10 months & 11 days.........

Can ToffeeWeb put up a count down?

It’s the only thing we have to look forward to.

I heard a rumour that Strachan’s on his way from Celtic when they don’t qualify for the next round of the Chamions League.

Celtic are our only hope to take this clueless prick off our hands.

Steve - Great idea we could have a COUNTDOWN TO FOOTBALL knowing that as the last day ticks away we can get a manager who knows what he’s doing & is paid a decent BUT reasonable salary based on acheivement.
I suggest a graphic of a prison yard wall with chalk marks crossing off the days/weeks & years, as at the moment I certainly feel like I’m serving a long punishing sentence !

Alan- I’m just going to check who Celtic have got next in Europe as for 90 min’s, I’ll be their biggest fan !

If you happen to speak to any Celtic fans please tell them how wonderful Moyes is and how he is always tactically spot on. His attacking football really is refreshing in these days of 4-5-1 stifling defensive tactics. He also has a great ability to spot when something is not going right and make the appropriate changes be it tactics or brave substiutions. He also likes to be honest and doesn’t hide behind excuses of poor refereeing decisions or the fact he’s had no money to spend (£11 million on a hard working striker and £15 million on a graceful midfielder prove this).

So I’m starting a Moyes to Celtic campaign, he really will blossom up there.

Leighton, Smith did initially have money to spend, but soon found out the money he was spending was in fact not there. The big dunc debacle, sold behind Smith’s back, and at the time he was a top player who kept us up along with Speed (while he was there) almost single handed the previous season. Dacourt was excellent in he debut season, Collins was a classy player who became captain and marco was a little rough round the edges but went on to win numerous medals. At the end of Smiths first seanson we really battered a few teams, then Smith was forced to sell. The season after I thought we played some decent stuff and should of finished higher, Then Smith had to sell Hutch, Barmby, Collins and Jeffers and wasn’t given adequate resources to replace them.
I’m with you on Bakayoko, though I’m not sure what point your making with us selling Graham Allen to Tranmere. I also think we got rid of Smith at the right time, but I also remember this is a man who could of walked away after being lied to, but stuck it out so as not to leave us in the lurch. He perhaps deserves more than the contempt he gets from evertonians. Anyone could do well at rangers? Tell that to Paul Le Guen, Smith turned them round straight away, as he did with Scotland. Makes you wonder.

Walter Smith?? Did anyone watch Rangers last season? It was some of the worst football I’ve ever seen.
Let’s just say Moyes did move North, who could we get in to replace him? Mourinho? O Neil? Nope don’t be silly, it would probably be between Curbishley and Fat Sam. I?d rather stick with Moyes .

I’ve always liked Moyes but i think its time for a change he can’t inspire them no more we haven’t played well since Fiorentina which is over 7 months ago the players don’t seem arsed yes he’s done a good job but so did Houllier across the park but he had to go when it started going stale there i’ve no idea who would come in maybe Martin Jol if he’d be interested.

Leighton,on your list I would suggest that there several decent players.Remember ,last season Walter Smith took a Rangers side ,that would,quite frankly,struggle in the championship,to the uefa cup final.Something that David Moyes,with a vastly superior squad ,failed to do.
My point,however was not to defend Walter Smith(though he deserves some defending),It was to state that praising David Moyes by damning Walter Smith is not only unfair but is a lame defence of our current coach.
Can anyone really argue that £millions later our football is any better.

Ian Kearney, you’re spot on with your views on Smith. If Smith had walked after the Ferguson affair, we’d be watching a Championship side at best now.

We?re shite.

Were stuck with Moyes for another 5 years its enough to make you weep, he had the fuckin? cheek to come out of the JJB and start signing autographs as though that pile of shite we had witnessed was nothing to do with him, he even looked shocked when some lads ripped into him. At least when Lescott came out and got stick he came over and apologised and looked close to tears, but that arrogant cunt Arteta just ran on the bus with Yobo and neither of them where arsed, Yakubu told everyone to fuck off and ran on the bus and the rest apart from Jagielka ran.

I think the players have no confidence in Moyes ability and too many are just going through the motions. Moyes and most of the squad are happy to just collect their wages, there's no will to win and no ambition, unless we get a buy out were destined for at least five more years of at best mediocrity. SAD init!

In full agreement Andy. To the apologists, Doddsie et al, explain why we should stick by Moyes? The 4th best paid coach in the division. Probably the worst standard of football on show in the whole league. Every game. Moyes and Everton do not fit together. Such negative, such unimaginative, such stuck to failing formula, Moyes is everything Everton is not.

"We are 7th" I hear Kenwright shout. Are we? Where will we be come May I ask? We have lost twice to Ince?s Blackburn (bottom 3), we have lost to Wigan (were bottom 3 till they played us) have won 1 game at home all season and its less than a month to Xmas. Pardon, but it all stinks badly of Mike Walker. And to be fair to Mike, he didn?t get to smash our transfer record year after year after year (dear God do I need to type this ? Beattie, Fat Lazy cant pass for shit Yakubu despised by all boro fans till we bought him; and lets not forget the world renown Fellaini who we had to wrestle with.. erm.. no one to sign? Per Krøldrup anyone? AvdM?). Yes there have been the Cahills and Lesoctts, but these were well known names not surprise signings.

I don?t attack Moyes because I'm negative, or because I want us to fail. I attack him cus he has had nearly 7 years to produce a side that looks like it couldn?t give a fuck and gets beaten by fucking wigan. That is treason in the Everton world. If we get beaten by a better side ok. If we get beaten week in week out by fodder, and we, but for a few men like Osman and Howard, look like we couldn?t give a shit, then exactly what is Moyes being paid to do?? It seems to me he has the best job in the world ? win and he gets the credit, lose and its someone else?s fault, get paid £17m over 5 years.

Being Everton manager is the best job in the world, but Moyes and Kenwright are taking the piss.

James Carlyle, it?s not negativity, it is people stating the obvious, we are fucking woeful to watch, and play some of the worst football, of all the teams in the prem.

Moyes is tactically inept, FFS 5 mins to go, chasing the game, and he takes off a defender, and puts on, err,another defender, just what goes through the mans head? Also James, if your happy with the crap the man dishes out, then you football knowledge must be meagre.

I guess the question to ask is if we didn’t support Everton would they be our next favourite team .... ?? The deafening silence means NO for the reasons Brian points out. Football should be a beautiful game in which pace, skill and passion are all interwoven. Would Moyes have given Limpar and Kanchelskis the licence to rip Liverpool apart at Anfield all those years ago ? No, because he creates soulless sides who play with fear.

We ve had a 7th ,6th,5th, and a 4th, finish so Moyes has something, but what he hasn't got is style. His teams are as a rule efficent but also boring. Nearly every player in the squad he has bought but, after 6 full seasons, the team is still not balanced, no real width, no dominant midfielder... now there is no money. SO SOMEONE IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOLD.

Moyes needs to see which player has to be sacrificed in order to get a midfielder, we are constantly out fought and outskilled. Fellaini Cahill Osman is not a midfield that works. We've been playing shite since the FIORENTINA game.

I?m as disappointed as everyone else with this season, probably made worse after the expectations being raised so much last season.

Yes, the performances have been nothing short of woeful this season, but surely Moyes deserves time to turn it around.

Last season was the best football I?ve seen at Goodison for 20 years, and I really believed we were on the verge of penetrating the top four on a regular basis. What amazes me is how the same squad of players can basically change so much?

I believe a combination of factors have contributed that include, the Moyes contract saga, constant knockbacks in the transfer market, injuries to Osman, Cahill and Pienaar in pre-season, Lescott and Arteta?s loss of form and Yobo?s brother getting kidnapped. The EFC squad does not have enough quality to cope with the loss of so many key players.

Moyes has shown he has proven ability. He turned round a side that finished fourth from bottom and with dressing room problems, to create a stable team that?s finished 11th at worst in four seasons, and shown progress ever since until this year.

Moyes?s record to date means we should stick by him for a while longer yet.

I also believe a combination of factors have contributed to the current shambles,the failure by DM year after year to address the central midfield role,the failure by DM to introduce any pace to the team, the failure of DM to get his team to play flowing attacking football, the failure of DM to apply coherent tactics, the failure of DM to use substitutes effectively, the failure of DM to drop players who are consistently under achieving and the failure of DM to come out after a game and openly say what the fans want to hear ? "that it's not good enough" and "that it's not acceptable" and that "it WON'T be tolerated". The EFC squad does not have enough quality period!

So Colin Potter ... who would we get? Who would replace Moyes?

You can’t answer can you?

Anyone know what Joe Royle?s up to these days? Surely we?re more attractive than Oldham (or maybe not).

Is this the same Walter Smith whose Rangers side were knocked out of Europe even before Everton this season, to a far worse side than Standard Liege?? And is this the same Walter Smith who was bemoaned by the press as a pathetically negative manager throughout last season?s European campaign, putting out a bunch of defenders to get 0-0?s and hoping for a single goal or a penalty shoot out to get through? And of course Smith wasn?t spending as much as back then as Moyes is today, PRICES HAVE WENT UP SINCE THEN!! Players didn?t cost as much back then, so the money will of course not add up. But Smith signed his fair share of terrible and over priced players, the same squad that Moyes inherited and saved from relegation. For fuck?s sake were you just born 5 years ago? Did you not watch Everton under Smith? Do you not realize why Moyes was hired in the first place, because Smith was a disaster.

And comparing the record of a manager in a two-bit league with only one team to really compete with against Moyes competing in the Premier League, that is just laughable. Moyes has his faults, I don?t disagree, but if you think Moyes is negative, wait until you get a load of Walter Smith. And might I remind you that his central defender is David Wier, a player who was past it in the Premier League years ago, but somehow can still compete in that "top class" Scottish Premier League. Sorry, I would never have Smith back here. How many times did we qualify for Europe under Smith, I just can?t remember......

Bren Connor, it?s no good asking Colin Potter (or anyone else for that matter) who we would get if we offloaded David Moyes ? if for no other reason than it?s not his job to carry out this task. The way you have posed the question also presumes that Colin has no ideas on that issue. I?m sure that many Evertonians, including those who have footballing experience ? and probably even coaching qualifications ? would have some ideas but it's not up to them ? it?s up to the club. But with £3 million pounds per season in salary on offer, you can bet we could get a quality coach who would be able to turn things around.

And you ? and any other David Moyes supporter ? can rationalise his performances and inappropriately compare him with Walter Smith or whoever else, but the one thing you cannot deny are the dreadful performances of the team, the increasingly depressed mood of large numbers of Everton faithful concerning the future status of our club and the falling attendances at home games. It?s all very well to support David Moyes, but at some stage you have to ask yourself the question "when is he going to turn things around?" or, more importantly, "where will we be next season at the current rate of descent into the clueless and chaotic football we are playing at the moment (and have been all year except for one half against Manyoo)?"

If David Moyes is as good as his supporters think, he would have addressed the situation by now, if not fully than at least partially. The fact that he hasn?t has to tell you something and in, my humble opinion, if things are not turned around and very quickly, we are in for one hell of a fight to save our position in the EPL. And given the atrocious performance against lowly Wigan, we cannot guarantee victories against any team at the moment. Doesn?t look good.

If not Moyes? then who? Well almost anybody who is coaching at a decent level any where in Europe.

I would even take Big Sam on a week-by-week deal, at least his Bolton teams never laid down.

Well said Laurie.

Derek, you?re right & with up to £3million a year on offer we could have found someone better. Slaven Bilic is only on £20,000 a Year FFS!

Why oh why Kenwright had to give Moyes such a long lucrative contract when it was clear his dithering was a ?come & get me? message to other clubs. Luckily for them (Newcastle/Spurs) their boards had more sense than the Moyes apologists on here! Yep, You know who you are and who sounded out your Mesiah? Bolton yes that?s right only bloody Bolton & instead of reviewing the offer in light of his attitude & lack of achievement we give him £17M!

I used to come on here & defend Moyes (despite his faults) but his attitude this summer was appalling and I now see him for the Charlatan he is!

Alan Clarke: There is no need to sell Moyes to the Celtic faithful. I investigated how he is rated on a few Celtic websites this very question (in the vain hope that Strachan was on the way out, and Moyes was on the way in). Every last poster that answered my question declared that should Strachan leave, Moyes would be most welcome as a replacement. Most gave me the usual stuff, that is, Moyes has dome wonders on a budget, is one of the best young managers in the game, is a great motivator, etc, etc. So the ground is prepared. Let?s just hope the powers that at Celtic are similarly impressed.

How the legends of the past would be shocked at the state of our club now. Our football is garbage and a insult to those who went before.

I firmly believe that the likes of Arteta, Lescott, Yakubu et al have not suddenly turned shite. Moyes has drained all the confidence and flair from their play and he needs to be replaced. I will not believe that we cannot find a better manager and this should not stop us from shouting for his removal.

Goodison never rises up though, does it? We?ll all just sit there as the song goes.... "The needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along like before"...

The love affair is going stale for a lot of Blues and we need a change.

As Derek Thomas said, Big Sam's Bolton never laid down and died. Moyes has got us going out there expecting defeat. No amount of last minute winners can hide how truly awful we are right now. Easily the worst side in the Premiership to watch. Someone come on here a few weeks back and said if we had beaten Blackburn and Portsmouth we would be looking at 3rd, well if we hadn't of fluked late winners at Bolton, West Ham, Fulham (NONE of which we deserved) we would be second bottom.

Our next 4 games are Spurs, Villa, City and Chelsea, I don't think we will get a point from all 3 and the way the prem is shaping up this season we will be in the bottom 3, no question whatsoever. I sit here and cant think any game we truly deserved 3 points from this season.

To all those saying, "who would we get" I say any fucker who would inject a bit of life into not only the players but into the fans because Moyes has done something I cant remember happening in my 15 years of going the game. He has turned what was once a passionate, loud 38,000 strong Goodison Park into a soulless 31,000 going through the motions. Lost the players, lost the fans, and probably about to lose our Premier League status.

Martin Jol would?ve been a great replacement for Moyes, he was available before Kenwright tied us into a disgraceful 5-year deal with this bluffer. Jol knows how to get teams playing real attractive football, he got a raw deal at Spurs, but I think he is doing well at his latest club, he could?ve been in at a third of what it's costing us to retain Moyes. A buy-out will be our only salvation from DM and Billy Bull. I can only see attendances dropping drastically from now on; if it goes pear shaped in the FA Cup, expect the kind of dire crowds we got in the early 80s. A mass clear out at board level down is the only way as far I can see. Viva la revolucion!

I have 60 years of supporting Everton. The last few seasons have been the dullest and most boring in my memory. Because of the disgusting way the Premier League operates for the money clubs, I honestly do not expect us to win the league. However, I do feel we are entitled to see an effort at good football with the chances of a decent cup run, we have had neither. We are currently probably the least attractive side for any neutral to watch.

Last season which I believe was overachievment gave us a chance to at least start to build & improve but we all know it has been wasted. Perhaps even more staying away will make the board take notice.... I realy do think there is a strong possibility that we could drop out this time because previously you could always say there are at least three teams a lot worse. This season "can you" honestly??? Moyes must go... Replaced by??? ? anyone with some flair & ambition.

The "Who do we get?" thing is a joke... offering £3 mil a year, you'd get plenty of interest in the job from coaches who have actually won something.

Anyone see him on 5 last night as a pundit? ? not answering questions on tactics with anymore insight than any armchair pundit.

I've said for ages that his football ethos sucks ass... regardless of form or results, we will never achieve anything or get the best out of the creative players we have as long as someone in charge who views football the way Moyes does.

Really this post most be a joke!

David Moyes is the best thing to happen to Everton in a long time! You're all sounding like bitter reds more and more every day! With the Kirkby debate too! Get behind your team! Remember, you're meant to be supporters...

Lee Jones,
Get yourself off the pot lad, it addles your brain. Anyone can tell that by that post of yours!

James, you have just proved me right on your footballing knowledge, non-existent! How the fuck can you say we were unlucky against Wigan?