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Hibbert haters, anyone?
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Just a quick point after Sunday's match, where are all the Hibbert Haters now? Yeah sure we can all talk about Mikky's set piece deliveries and Pip's passing but surely Hibbo has now shown that he's a player who, in my opinion, given the fans' backup and encouragement, is a good everton player.
There's a guy in front of me who fuckin hates him, even if he scored 30 goals this season he'd still be shite.
Matt Kay, Posted 29/12/2008 at 14:14:15
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I may be nearly alone in thinking this, but Hibbert has been a different entity ever since the day he put the brakes on the then white-hot Martin Petrov at Goodison last season.
The problem we’re gonna have at the back is what to do when Yobo comes back. Who the hell do you leave out? You can’t take Lescott out and Baines adds too much in attack to be planted back on the pine.
Perhaps we can switch to 5-5-0, leaving Hibbert and Baines with the freedom to get forward as much as possible.
Maybe the answer is to alternate Osman and Gosling in midfield. Let’s hope that DG is as good as he looks on the early evidence.
It’s beginning to feel a lot like last winter.
The problem we’re gonna have at the back is what to do when Yobo comes back. Who the hell do you leave out? You can’t take Lescott out and Baines adds too much in attack to be planted back on the pine.
Perhaps we can switch to 5-5-0, leaving Hibbert and Baines with the freedom to get forward as much as possible.
Maybe the answer is to alternate Osman and Gosling in midfield. Let’s hope that DG is as good as he looks on the early evidence.
It’s beginning to feel a lot like last winter.
Ive felt sorry for Baines since he arrived, he’s a great player who has been affected by Jagielka’s form, I think our best back 4 is the current one, with Lescott in the middle, he made it known he didnt want to play left back and perhaps made a few sub-standard performances to try and get moved into his preferred position ?? hehe..
Fair play to Hibbert though, nothing like seeing a player knocked down to come back stronger..
Fair play to Hibbert though, nothing like seeing a player knocked down to come back stronger..
Matt... credit where credit?s due; Tony had a decent game on Sunday. Decent anticipation/position, getting-to before the bounce, heads-up to play out or punt out of defence based on what was in front of him. All aspects of his game which have, IMO, been dreadful in the past. Surprised by Pip?s performance also which was above his average but by no means Premier League midfield rated. Hopefully more of this to come from those two so I can keep my trap shut. Our next 4 are make-or-break... keep it up and on the ground lads. COYB.
All credit to Hibbert. He may never be the perfect fullback in many people’s eyes, but he is a tough, fast and effective defender. Yes, he has had some poor games, but by and large, he has always given his heart and soul for the club. Regarding Yobo, he should not have an automatic return to the back 4. He should wait his turn until one of the current back 4 either loses their form or gets injured. This is the right philosophy to adopt. No one should be an automatic choice. Players should be in the team on merit, not because of their name.
A few seasons ago, DM was touting Sven to pick Hibbo for the England squad. Then Tony caught that illness when on holiday which kept him out for 3/4 of a season. It?s took until now for him to regain his strength, form and confidence ? not helped by the "fans". Tony Hibbo is highly rated at the club by his fellow players and the manager and is in fact as good a man-to-man marker as most Premier League RBs. Now that his distribution is back to its best, he?s currently one of the names that has to be in the starting line-up, and long may it continue!
I like Hibs and would pick him in my team if we had to go to war. No nonsense, no frills, dogged defending. With Arteta in the middle supporting Pienaar and Baines down the left, maybe we would not miss an attacking right-fullback on the opposite flank as much. But Hibs is surprising us with some decents crosses too. If we could sign a right winger we should be set. How’s VDM’s fitness holding up?
Weakest link in the team, end of story.
I don’t think we should get ahead of ourselves. Yes he’s playing better than he has been, but it doesn’t mean he’s the answer.
A couple of times Hibbert got his positioning all wrong in the 1st half but was covered by that man Jagielka. It was only due to Jagielka’s pace we got out of it so he still has his failings.
A couple of times Hibbert got his positioning all wrong in the 1st half but was covered by that man Jagielka. It was only due to Jagielka’s pace we got out of it so he still has his failings.
I would still like to see Castillo given more games and play Pip at right back.
The boys are in form now though, and long may it continue!
The boys are in form now though, and long may it continue!
It’s called the law of averages Matt. Hibbo was due a good game one day, and he’s just had them back to back that’s all. Prepare for a few more years of dross now.
Hibbo can’t win with goats like Joeynkoo. He has had a number of injuries and only just regained full fitness. I am fed up with stupid negative comments from fools like Joeynkoo.
I?m no Hibbert hater. How can one dislike the guy who always puts in 100%? He never bitches about the club and just goes about his business in a quiet manner.
That said, he is in my opinion the weakest link in the team. Surely a few very good performances cannot mask his basic deficiencies ? lack of control, poor distribution and getting caught out of position, ballwatching? He quite often gets baled out by the covering player.
Just as Carsley had to be replaced, so too does Hibbert if we want to progress. Meanwhile he gets my support if he plays ? but he wouldn?t be my first choice.
That said, he is in my opinion the weakest link in the team. Surely a few very good performances cannot mask his basic deficiencies ? lack of control, poor distribution and getting caught out of position, ballwatching? He quite often gets baled out by the covering player.
Just as Carsley had to be replaced, so too does Hibbert if we want to progress. Meanwhile he gets my support if he plays ? but he wouldn?t be my first choice.
I think you need to temper your post across the season and not just the odd game. Hibbert is a better right back than Phil Neville but worse going forward so a quandry there. Phil Neville, among the currently playing players, looks half decent in central midfield alongside Arteta who has been chasing and winning most things he has gone after. Baines does look good charging down the wing, wingback style, but is awful tracking back to defend and has been caught out of position in the past.
Unfortunately, at some point the bubble will burst again. It?s not who has looked decent in previous games, it?s the ability to have players suitable and available to beat whatever opposition you are playing against here and now and the team that can hold Chelski and beat Boro and Sunderland may not be able to do the same against other teams.
One game at a time.
Unfortunately, at some point the bubble will burst again. It?s not who has looked decent in previous games, it?s the ability to have players suitable and available to beat whatever opposition you are playing against here and now and the team that can hold Chelski and beat Boro and Sunderland may not be able to do the same against other teams.
One game at a time.
Hibbert has been shite for the past 5 years ? I don?t think there are many who would argue with that. 100% effort is okay if you are happy for Premier League survival to be the measure of your success ? but not if you wish to progress.
Sounds to me, Matt, that you are one of those (very very few) people who have been arguing against the groundswell of opinion that he ain't good enough. If half a dozen decent games this season makes you feel your defence of him was/is justfied then fair enough, but it will take a lot more than that to convince me that he ain't one of the weakest links in our team.
If he does go on to become England?s right full back (Wooooaaaa! A flying pig!), Happy days ?- I will happily hold my hand up and say I was wrong, but don?t hold your breath.
Sounds to me, Matt, that you are one of those (very very few) people who have been arguing against the groundswell of opinion that he ain't good enough. If half a dozen decent games this season makes you feel your defence of him was/is justfied then fair enough, but it will take a lot more than that to convince me that he ain't one of the weakest links in our team.
If he does go on to become England?s right full back (Wooooaaaa! A flying pig!), Happy days ?- I will happily hold my hand up and say I was wrong, but don?t hold your breath.
Chris ? Hibbert has made over 150 appearences for us and you can count the number of good performances on one hand... that has had 2 fingers amputated. My comment may be negative, but that doesn?t mean it?s not true. I?m made up that Hibbo is playing well, and long may it continue. I just doubt it will. That?s us goats for you, I guess, but we are the most cynical of any of the numerous agile, hollow-horned ruminants of the genus Capra, of the family Bovidae.
Have to agree with the majority here. I think in the last three games Hibbert has played well, but that could be a reflection of our opponents rather than his ability. The three games after Hull will put him up against a better standard of opponent, and I fear we will see him being exploited as our weak link continuously.
Like everyone else, I will be ecstatic to be proved wrong by him, but the way Richardson strolled past him a couple of times on Sunday didn?t fill me with confidence.
Like everyone else, I will be ecstatic to be proved wrong by him, but the way Richardson strolled past him a couple of times on Sunday didn?t fill me with confidence.
If Sunday was a good game for Hibbert, then I’d hate to see him have a shocker! Admittedly Osman was hardly helping him out but the only joy Sunderland had at all was against him. He looked terribly slow and was constantly being skinned for pace by opposition who hardly looked too sprightly themselves. Plus he dived in to tackles unnecesarily.
I think its a measure of how poor his standards are that people can come on here singing his praises just because he managed to hit some team mates with a few passes for a change.
I think its a measure of how poor his standards are that people can come on here singing his praises just because he managed to hit some team mates with a few passes for a change.
Hibbo is the best right back we?ve had since Gary Stevens (when he?s fit, that is).
Dave, what planet are you on!? How can you say Hibbert has been shite for the past five years? He?s been a top defender and has helped us get a countless number of clean sheets and very rarely gets beaten by an attacker.
Don?t you remember the year we finished fourth? There was no Neville about then! Admittedly his distribution is too often not good enough, but as a defender over he past five years he?s been one of the best.
Don?t you remember the year we finished fourth? There was no Neville about then! Admittedly his distribution is too often not good enough, but as a defender over he past five years he?s been one of the best.
I would love to see Hibbo do well and retain his place because having an Evertonian in the team will pretty much guarantee 100% given every game but for anyone who saw the 1st leg of the Fiorentina game and saw Christian Vieri stroll past him on every attack will know that he may not be up to the big match standard. However, I hope I?m wrong and our all-English back-four succeeds ? Cappello might get them all in the England shirt if they can do well as a unit.
Hibbert is all right when he is defending in our half, but in this day and age you need more than that. You have to be able to get up and down that line with pace and put in a decent cross which Hibbert doesn't do. He's a honest and decent pro but not good enough for us ? I think we could do better.
To be fair, you always get 100% out of him; he might not be the greatest, but uses his limited ability to the maximum. It's only his distribution that lets him down but he had a good game and he gets the local lad syndrome from certain fans ? "He cost nothing so he must be crap" ? which is utter bollocks. Happy to have him in the squad.
Chris I would let is go mate. A lot of posters here simply go to their default hatred when the name Hibbert is mentioned, it is like a gut reaction. Especially people likr Dave Randals, "shite for 5 years". A great comment by someone famous is "Never argue with a fool, as passerbys will be unable to tell the difference" or something like that.
Hibbert has always been one of our better defenders; however, everyone here seems to judge him on his inability to put in inch perfect crosses, which no-one else in the team can do yet either.
I have often debated Hibbo?s attitude, like Jags if there is nothing in front/to the side of him, he will hoof it, usually out of play but as like on Sunday, if Arteta is there, he will always look to pass it to him and then move down the line. Simple football which he does well. Posters moan about him due to his forward play but never mention his great man-on-man defending abilities, such is life when you have a scapegoat to hate.
Hibbert has always been one of our better defenders; however, everyone here seems to judge him on his inability to put in inch perfect crosses, which no-one else in the team can do yet either.
I have often debated Hibbo?s attitude, like Jags if there is nothing in front/to the side of him, he will hoof it, usually out of play but as like on Sunday, if Arteta is there, he will always look to pass it to him and then move down the line. Simple football which he does well. Posters moan about him due to his forward play but never mention his great man-on-man defending abilities, such is life when you have a scapegoat to hate.
Tony I totally agree with your comments, the problem is I am fed up with goats like Joeynkoo Ludden constantly criticising paticular players.
Very harsh Joey/ Dave
Hibbert isn't the world's best passer of the ball, but over the next few games count how many times crosses come in from his side; it won't be many.
Hibbert isn't the world's best passer of the ball, but over the next few games count how many times crosses come in from his side; it won't be many.
Surely the real yardstick is whether he is any better now than when he made his debut? Now if he was nigh-on perfect then, well maybe you?d have an argument. But surely for a modern day footballer to be still so lacking in control and distribution, it says something?
Hibbert is best when defending against a team that is chucking the kitchen sink at us. However, we need better than that now if we?re to move on.
A better crosser of the ball? Look no further than Neville by the way.
Hibbert is best when defending against a team that is chucking the kitchen sink at us. However, we need better than that now if we?re to move on.
A better crosser of the ball? Look no further than Neville by the way.
Tony/Chris - its not a default argument, its an opinion formed from having watched him for the last 5 years. I don't think anyone actually hates the lad and it's nothing personal against him but he is simply too mistake-prone and regularly gets caught ball-watching and out of position. I'm as delighted (relieved!?) as anyone else to see him have a good game but do you not think it's a bit knee-jerk to come on here after he?s had a couple of good games to have a go at anyone who doesn't rate him?
One swallow doesn't make a summer and a season is 38 games so let's not claim he?s something he?s not after 2 or 3.
I’ve always rated Hibbert.
Yes, always. He’s not spectacular, no, and his getting forward isn’t the strongest in the league by a country mile.
But he’s a right back. A defender, and that’s a job he always goes about efficiently. He’s very rarely beaten (The list of players that’ve disappeared into his pocket...) and is one of the few players I’ve seen who are still able to put opposition players into the stands when necessary.
I think he’s berated so often because the fans have to have some sort of "boo-boy" and he’s an easy target because he’s a local lad.
Yes, always. He’s not spectacular, no, and his getting forward isn’t the strongest in the league by a country mile.
But he’s a right back. A defender, and that’s a job he always goes about efficiently. He’s very rarely beaten (The list of players that’ve disappeared into his pocket...) and is one of the few players I’ve seen who are still able to put opposition players into the stands when necessary.
I think he’s berated so often because the fans have to have some sort of "boo-boy" and he’s an easy target because he’s a local lad.
Chris ? I really think you have a thing about goats and I infer from your posts you view them (and me) in a negative light. It may be worth noting the following quotes sourced in a matter of seconds on the subject: ?Goats are extremely curious and intelligent? and ?A goat is useful to humans both alive and dead? also ?those born in a year of the goat are predicted to be shy, introverted, creative, and perfectionist? and more ?A goat is considered a?honored guest?.
I?m no goat expert Chris, and I know if I stray too far from the thread?s subject area my post may be removed, but what I do know is a little about football and having watched Hibbert prove, week... neigh month... neigh year after year that he is not a Premier League standard footballer, I?m not about to readdress that standpoint after 2 or 3 half-decent games. If he keeps it up for the next 3 years then you may be the first to post a story about what a fool Joeynkoo is ? though clearly you need to research appropriate animals to refer me to as you chose a bit of a celebrity when you went for the humble and undervalued goat.
One last thing, the giving 100% thing ? that's a pre-requiste and not a positive. Anyone giving less shouldn't get a game. Giving 100% doesn't mean you are a good footballer though. I would give 100% every week too, but you don't see me as right back ? and I dont think you?d see Hibbo there if Jacobssen wasn't injured either.
I?m no goat expert Chris, and I know if I stray too far from the thread?s subject area my post may be removed, but what I do know is a little about football and having watched Hibbert prove, week... neigh month... neigh year after year that he is not a Premier League standard footballer, I?m not about to readdress that standpoint after 2 or 3 half-decent games. If he keeps it up for the next 3 years then you may be the first to post a story about what a fool Joeynkoo is ? though clearly you need to research appropriate animals to refer me to as you chose a bit of a celebrity when you went for the humble and undervalued goat.
One last thing, the giving 100% thing ? that's a pre-requiste and not a positive. Anyone giving less shouldn't get a game. Giving 100% doesn't mean you are a good footballer though. I would give 100% every week too, but you don't see me as right back ? and I dont think you?d see Hibbo there if Jacobssen wasn't injured either.
Joeynkoo, Chris was only kidding.
Ray ? what about? Hibbo being a footballer?
My post is meant in jest Ray, Happy new year. And let's all lay off goats in ?09... It?s the year of the Ox after all.
My post is meant in jest Ray, Happy new year. And let's all lay off goats in ?09... It?s the year of the Ox after all.
Hibbert is fucking useless, end of. Div 1 standard at best!
Well said, Seamus. Tony & Chris: we encourage critical analysis of players and discourage name-calling. If you can?t handle it without being abusive, you know the drill.
Joeynkoo... "neigh" ??? I think you mean "nay" but I left it in for the interesting horsey juxtaposition with the whole goat thing. Nice research, by the way!
Oh and, er... "kidding"! I think you missed something of Ray's goat-humour.
Joeynkoo... "neigh" ??? I think you mean "nay" but I left it in for the interesting horsey juxtaposition with the whole goat thing. Nice research, by the way!
Oh and, er... "kidding"! I think you missed something of Ray's goat-humour.
Hehehe :D ... hardly covered myself in glory there, did I Mr Kenrick? Apologies for usage of horsey talk and yes, I missed Ray?s grand goat-related pun! Sorry, Ray. In my defence, I just hadn?t prepared any goat related repartee for today.
He has been much better recently BUT Matt score 30 goals ? I know you are making a point, but he hasn?t even scored one yet in 170 appearances.
Is it just me or did Hibbert only start getting all this stick once we had no left backs for you lot to slag off.
Tony Hibbert is my favourite player. He may be ?this and that? but I would love nothing more than him scoring the winning goal versus the RS. Awesome!
Anthony Millington/Tony Williams - (Tony - note your name was spelled correctly!)
My four basic requirements for a good full-back:- Pace, tackling, PASSING, ATTACKING. For a visual of this in pratice, head to the Emirates. How on earth any player (anywhere on earth ? never mind just at GP!) can be viewed as being ?decent? who simply cannot pass a fooball is beyond me.
I would be interested to see if your interpretation of what constitues a decent full-back differs. Opinions welcome ? but for fuck?s sake, please don?t try and tell me the boy can pass!
My four basic requirements for a good full-back:- Pace, tackling, PASSING, ATTACKING. For a visual of this in pratice, head to the Emirates. How on earth any player (anywhere on earth ? never mind just at GP!) can be viewed as being ?decent? who simply cannot pass a fooball is beyond me.
I would be interested to see if your interpretation of what constitues a decent full-back differs. Opinions welcome ? but for fuck?s sake, please don?t try and tell me the boy can pass!
Dave, you have described the ideals for an attacking full back. As I have always said we all know too well about Hibbert?s attacking frailties but as a defender he, simply put, is one of our best. Moyes knows this an constantly trots him out against the better sides to man mark the Ronaldos, Petrovs et all of this league.
So Michael, "He?s been shite for 5 years" and "he is fucking useless" is classed as a critical analysis now is it?
So Michael, "He?s been shite for 5 years" and "he is fucking useless" is classed as a critical analysis now is it?
Tony ? call this pedantic but I don?t honestly see how a footballer can be called a good footballer if he cannot competently execute the most fundamental part of the game itself ? passing! I agree that Hibbert is a good tackler but, as per my previous post, there is soooooooo much more required of a top-class modern-day defender than to be merely able to tackle!
I?ve got to stand by my original statement ? and yes, I do think he has been shite for the past five years. In my mind, Hibbert is certainly one of the players who we should be looking to improve upon as soon as finances allow.
Do I hate him? Christ no, I just don?t see him as being good enough. If the boy goes on to prove me wrong ? I?ll be right in there first admitting I was so.
I?ve got to stand by my original statement ? and yes, I do think he has been shite for the past five years. In my mind, Hibbert is certainly one of the players who we should be looking to improve upon as soon as finances allow.
Do I hate him? Christ no, I just don?t see him as being good enough. If the boy goes on to prove me wrong ? I?ll be right in there first admitting I was so.
This thing about him being such a good tackler always gets me.... He is so often out of position his only redemption is the last ditch lunge. If you all think back to the first leg v Fiorentina last year and how they ruthlessly exposed the space he left time and time again.
Tony Hibbert is dedicated to Everton, but so would David Nugent be. Sadly for us all, that doesn?t make them good enough to play for them at the level we want them to.
I agree with Rags (Dave), from where I sit in the Upper Bullens you get a 45-minute bird's-eye view of his inadequacies, and the difference between him and Neville at right back is immeasurable.
Tony Hibbert is dedicated to Everton, but so would David Nugent be. Sadly for us all, that doesn?t make them good enough to play for them at the level we want them to.
I agree with Rags (Dave), from where I sit in the Upper Bullens you get a 45-minute bird's-eye view of his inadequacies, and the difference between him and Neville at right back is immeasurable.
You people supporting Hibbo, do you go to the match? What is the first thing he does when he recieves the ball? Yes, big boot to anywhere... can he cross a ball? No; every time we are attacking and he is given the ball, it's just a waste of time. The right back in our reserves must be Div 3 ability...
Paul it is clear that you do not go the game. Again the default position, he hoofs the ball....ermm...yes and so did Jags, Yobo and Lescott until a few games ago.
In previous posts I have stated that if you actually do watch the game and notice HIbbert's play instead of remembering the hoofs that invariably occur, you will see that his first instinct is to look for and pass to Arteta and then move forward down the line. When he is faced with no pass and no one shows for him, what do you want him to do? Try and take on their winger or left back with his dazzling and silky skills, or try and pump it forward to the striker or pass back to the goalie?
He is limited but looks at the other defenders especially Jags, his passing is atrocious and he gives the ball away a hell of a lot more than Hibbo, who always looks for the short pass to a midfielder but because he puts in last-ditch tackles (which Hibbert also does) he is immune to people giving him loads.
He can pass but when left no option he hoofs it and his hoofs usually end up out of play.
It is easy to attack Hibbert for his dodgy crosses (it?s not like we have an abundance of great crossers though) but I prefer to judge how good a defender is by his defending, not his poor crosses.
Adam, the first leg against Fiorentina!!, show my one player other than Howard to come out of that game with their head held high. If you are going to pick games then I would suggest you use ones where the rest of the back four have played better than Tony.
In previous posts I have stated that if you actually do watch the game and notice HIbbert's play instead of remembering the hoofs that invariably occur, you will see that his first instinct is to look for and pass to Arteta and then move forward down the line. When he is faced with no pass and no one shows for him, what do you want him to do? Try and take on their winger or left back with his dazzling and silky skills, or try and pump it forward to the striker or pass back to the goalie?
He is limited but looks at the other defenders especially Jags, his passing is atrocious and he gives the ball away a hell of a lot more than Hibbo, who always looks for the short pass to a midfielder but because he puts in last-ditch tackles (which Hibbert also does) he is immune to people giving him loads.
He can pass but when left no option he hoofs it and his hoofs usually end up out of play.
It is easy to attack Hibbert for his dodgy crosses (it?s not like we have an abundance of great crossers though) but I prefer to judge how good a defender is by his defending, not his poor crosses.
Adam, the first leg against Fiorentina!!, show my one player other than Howard to come out of that game with their head held high. If you are going to pick games then I would suggest you use ones where the rest of the back four have played better than Tony.
Tony, your earlier point about him being ?trotted out? against the big teams [you were slightly cunning in that you mention Petrov in your summation] ? I assume you mean the ?big 4'. So when was the last time we beat one of those teams with our England class right back?
I admire your loyalty and defence of him, but he is clearly the weakest member of our team ? there has to be one, it's nothing personal. Every decent team we play continually plays to our right side when Hibbert plays, it is obvious. You must surely agree that Neville is a better right back. I am yet to see Jacobsen, so judgment is reserved on him, but I will be surprised if he is not better also.
I said earlier in this thread that I thought he had played well recently, but maintain that may have been due to the opposition?s quality or lack of numbers. Tony Hibbert is undoubtedly an Evertonian, but for me he only warrants a place in a bottom half Premier League or Championship side.
I admire your loyalty and defence of him, but he is clearly the weakest member of our team ? there has to be one, it's nothing personal. Every decent team we play continually plays to our right side when Hibbert plays, it is obvious. You must surely agree that Neville is a better right back. I am yet to see Jacobsen, so judgment is reserved on him, but I will be surprised if he is not better also.
I said earlier in this thread that I thought he had played well recently, but maintain that may have been due to the opposition?s quality or lack of numbers. Tony Hibbert is undoubtedly an Evertonian, but for me he only warrants a place in a bottom half Premier League or Championship side.
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1 Posted 30/12/2008 at 02:29:21
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