The Mail Bag
Name of our club
Comments (21)
It appears to me that we have forever been in the shadow of the Evil Empire. We were banned from Europe by an act on their part, coincidentally when we were a good team. That incident prevented our greatest ever Blues team from being able to put themselves in the world shopwindow, so we could stride forward and become a household name, not only in England but abroad too.
The ban never really affected the evil ones, they had made millions of fans overseas from their wonderful Euro cups in which I say full credit to them, no skin off their nose's. "Everton?" they say in France, "who are they?" We might as well be Accrington Stanley for all they care.
Now comes my point, please my fellow blues I beg you, dont be angry when I say this, but the red empire have in all honesty hijacked the name of the city. Even as I wrote my address for this letter, I couldn't avoid the fact I come from this city, I had to write "Dave from Liverpool".
Ok we all know that the red crap don't represent the city, everyone knows this, don't they? Mmmmmm... it appears not. My friends go abroad and ask football fans there, "Everton?, Everton? who are they? Liverpool are the team from that city, look at the name," they say.
My fellow blues, we have one answer and one only, why don't we change our name for European games to Everton of Merseyside, or Everton, the Royalty of Liverpool, in short Everton RL. No way have they got copyright on the name of a city they clearly do not represent.
Please forgive me for saying this but we have to think of ways forward to make our club better and bigger, we could use the name they stole as a means to get noticed.
David McCarthy, Posted 03/07/2008 at 19:15:16
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Every day of my school life I passed the tower on Everton Rd, I could have walked up a couple of streets to approach it but always chose to walk up Everton brow, it was the name, I loved it, I loved the sight - the reward - too when I reached the top, many’s the time I nearly got run over coz I would be looking at our badge instead of the road, it was incredibly special, I loved "our part of the city " Our part of inner Liverpool, I especialy loved getting to the top of Ruperts hill , turning around and surveying the city from what me and me mates used to call "Our throne"
If the custodians of of our club get their way, our badge will be the last peace of evidence that we were ever in the city, to future generation - provided we can keep it
Ask yourself this, If Bk starts a new club in Knowlsley and a group of Evertonians form "Everton Athletic" ?
Who would have rightful claim to the badge ?
As someone said in a previous thred, how can we complain about not being associated with a city yet be so desperate to move out ?
If the custodians of of our club get their way, our badge will be the last peace of evidence that we were ever in the city, to future generation - provided we can keep it
Ask yourself this, If Bk starts a new club in Knowlsley and a group of Evertonians form "Everton Athletic" ?
Who would have rightful claim to the badge ?
As someone said in a previous thred, how can we complain about not being associated with a city yet be so desperate to move out ?
Michael Kenrick is 100% right in my view. The years of neglect started well before Bill was even born, as those who truly know their history will confirm.
No-one at Everton could have forseen that the media friendly Shankly would have the recluse Catterick to contend with at the precise moment the attention of the world was directed at the city. Without doubt though, there have been paving stones to mediocrity (and dare I raise it yet again, Kirkby), laid by successive secretaries and chairmen from the very late twenties to the present day.
Each and every time we have been given the perfect opportunity to build consistent success and thereby improve facilties, we have lacked the man of vision to take the opportunity by the throat and squeeze every last drop of potential from it.
Of course we can whine about Heysel etc., but during that five or six year period, other clubs were building for the future.
While I happen to believe that a move to Kirkby would fundamentally change the club from People?s to Franchise, I also happen to believe that Bill is one of the best of a pretty poor bunch of self aggrandizing individuals who have done as much as any Liverpool manager, director or player to put us in the shade.
In short, don?t wag the finger of blame at Kenwright or Agent J: look to the lot of them from the fool who thought W R Dean was too expensive through to "The Future Can Look After Itself" Mr. Moores and his charming, ineffctive replacement, Carter.
No-one at Everton could have forseen that the media friendly Shankly would have the recluse Catterick to contend with at the precise moment the attention of the world was directed at the city. Without doubt though, there have been paving stones to mediocrity (and dare I raise it yet again, Kirkby), laid by successive secretaries and chairmen from the very late twenties to the present day.
Each and every time we have been given the perfect opportunity to build consistent success and thereby improve facilties, we have lacked the man of vision to take the opportunity by the throat and squeeze every last drop of potential from it.
Of course we can whine about Heysel etc., but during that five or six year period, other clubs were building for the future.
While I happen to believe that a move to Kirkby would fundamentally change the club from People?s to Franchise, I also happen to believe that Bill is one of the best of a pretty poor bunch of self aggrandizing individuals who have done as much as any Liverpool manager, director or player to put us in the shade.
In short, don?t wag the finger of blame at Kenwright or Agent J: look to the lot of them from the fool who thought W R Dean was too expensive through to "The Future Can Look After Itself" Mr. Moores and his charming, ineffctive replacement, Carter.
Let's not forget the other two times when we could've had a golden period and were cut short because of the WW1 and WW2. We are just unlucky, some teams have a lot of luck and some don?t. I would say that we fall into the second category!
I can sympathize with some of Dave’s comments but I would have to disagree with any suggestions as to changing our name.
The time when I have been most annoyed as to the attention given to Liverpool and not Everton ironically has nothing to do with the clubs themselves !! Have a look at any books re the history of the World Cup. If you look at an account of the 1966 World Cup - in terms of a table of the results - I am alsmost 95% certain that you would see something like - Portugal 5 North Korea 3 details of the teams and scorers and then the venue would most probably be given as Liverpool or Goodison Park,Liverpool !!
I remember my World Cup album for 1966 - I was 8 years old at the time - and the timetable of the matches referred to Goodison Park, Liverpool. Mind you I seem to think Everton programmes of that era had the words Goodison Park,Liverpool on the cover. I might be wrong on that one.
Anyway Dave I have to diagree with you as to any idea of a name change. Look at Aston Villa and Birmingham City for example. Aston Villa have no reference to the city in their title - to the outsider of course who doesn’t really know that city - yet it hasn’t done them harm.
When organised football started in this country in the 19th Century many of the clubs adopted the name of a town’s/city’s district. Man City were originally called Ardwick, Man United were Newton Heath. I am proud that we are one of the clubs that have kept this tradition alive. As we used to sing in the 1960’s -
" What’s our name......EVERTON!!!"
The time when I have been most annoyed as to the attention given to Liverpool and not Everton ironically has nothing to do with the clubs themselves !! Have a look at any books re the history of the World Cup. If you look at an account of the 1966 World Cup - in terms of a table of the results - I am alsmost 95% certain that you would see something like - Portugal 5 North Korea 3 details of the teams and scorers and then the venue would most probably be given as Liverpool or Goodison Park,Liverpool !!
I remember my World Cup album for 1966 - I was 8 years old at the time - and the timetable of the matches referred to Goodison Park, Liverpool. Mind you I seem to think Everton programmes of that era had the words Goodison Park,Liverpool on the cover. I might be wrong on that one.
Anyway Dave I have to diagree with you as to any idea of a name change. Look at Aston Villa and Birmingham City for example. Aston Villa have no reference to the city in their title - to the outsider of course who doesn’t really know that city - yet it hasn’t done them harm.
When organised football started in this country in the 19th Century many of the clubs adopted the name of a town’s/city’s district. Man City were originally called Ardwick, Man United were Newton Heath. I am proud that we are one of the clubs that have kept this tradition alive. As we used to sing in the 1960’s -
" What’s our name......EVERTON!!!"
I just wonder whether If our title contained the the word Liverpool in it ie.Liverpool Everton FC or First Liverpool FC ,the poxy Board would even have considered moving outside the city.
Note the words ’our place’
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eS4sj4vCAyM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eS4sj4vCAyM
If KD happens perhaps we should take Ruperts tower with us.
Load of rubbish,
Everton are well known on the continent, as are the following clubs who have a main rival with the name of thier city: Lazio(Roma) Benfica(Sporting Lisbon) Sampdoria(Genoa).
We may not have the clout in name as Real Madrid or AC Milan but I’m sure most people on this site have heard of clubs such as Athletico Madrid, Fiorentina, Borussia Dortmund, Paris Saint-Germain all clubs that have a similar pedigree to Everton.
Don’t forget the Premiership is now the most watched league in the world and Everton have finished 4th 6th and 5th in the last 4 years.
Believe me, people know who we are!!
Everton are well known on the continent, as are the following clubs who have a main rival with the name of thier city: Lazio(Roma) Benfica(Sporting Lisbon) Sampdoria(Genoa).
We may not have the clout in name as Real Madrid or AC Milan but I’m sure most people on this site have heard of clubs such as Athletico Madrid, Fiorentina, Borussia Dortmund, Paris Saint-Germain all clubs that have a similar pedigree to Everton.
Don’t forget the Premiership is now the most watched league in the world and Everton have finished 4th 6th and 5th in the last 4 years.
Believe me, people know who we are!!
It all went wrong when our red friends took the name of the city rather than a district and then no player would come to us and we didn’t win anything and were forever the poor relations !! Plus somebody killed an Austrian Archduke to deny us glory from 1915-1919 and then this German corporal invaded Poland to deny us again from 1939-1946. For some reason people keep talking about our history and making up stories of titles and trophies but that can’t be true, surely not ? Now if we could only win a few things to put us on the map.......
The good thing about having a name not associated with a particular location is that come the future ’franchise’ state of football, we could relocate to anywhere in the country. Clubs become family run by fuckers with too much money and want even more money. And thus similar to American baseball, we get the New York Dodgers becoming LA Dodgers. New fan base, bigger stadia, lower rent, away from the shadows of the ’Yankees’. It all adds up to more money in the coffers.
Seriously MK summed up pretty much correctly, the club rested on its laurels believing they would forever be untouchable with their great ’istory’. Fucked up repeatedly by arrogant cowboy owners. I believe some of us still consider its our divine right to forever be the top club in the City of Liverpool, regardless of effort put into the club. Sorry, the business world does not work that way, it’s success that matters. Eat or be eaten. It’s fair game to LFC to strive be the top club in the city (and world even). The whimpering lion that is EFC needs to fucking wake up and be counted. Where the fuck is NSNO??? It’s not happening right now. 2pence worth. Please be kind to me. Cheers.
Seriously MK summed up pretty much correctly, the club rested on its laurels believing they would forever be untouchable with their great ’istory’. Fucked up repeatedly by arrogant cowboy owners. I believe some of us still consider its our divine right to forever be the top club in the City of Liverpool, regardless of effort put into the club. Sorry, the business world does not work that way, it’s success that matters. Eat or be eaten. It’s fair game to LFC to strive be the top club in the city (and world even). The whimpering lion that is EFC needs to fucking wake up and be counted. Where the fuck is NSNO??? It’s not happening right now. 2pence worth. Please be kind to me. Cheers.
You dont need the name of the city to be seen as a major club, Arsenal Chelsea for instance. What we now need is to do something Everton have never done, build on solid foundations not for 3-5 years but for 25 - 30 years we need to be good for that length of time and make people take notice. The red scum did it for that length of time and thats the reason why we lie behind them at present not the name. It has not done Man City any favours they have equal hold on naming rights but have managed to be more or less crap for 30 years.
Real football fans know all about Everton and where we come from. That said, I have long advocated the suffix "First Liverpool FC" on our crest, albeit I am bemused at the KEIOC guys who should have called their movement Keep Everton In Liverpool; the old distaste for the name "Liverpool" seems to have prevailed even in this most emotive of issues.
Sorry but thats the most ridiculous thing Ive heard for a while.
Juventus havent done too badly compared to Torino have they? Benfica didnt do badly either.
Whether you like it or not a clubs image/brand/profile is based primarily on its success.
And why mention it now that we are leaving the City. Everton of Knowsley will sound great wont it.
I've worked with lots of Spanish, Italians and Germans and most of them have a vague recollection of what we did in the 80s... we just need to win a few trophies again! (Easier said than done!)
Juventus havent done too badly compared to Torino have they? Benfica didnt do badly either.
Whether you like it or not a clubs image/brand/profile is based primarily on its success.
And why mention it now that we are leaving the City. Everton of Knowsley will sound great wont it.
I've worked with lots of Spanish, Italians and Germans and most of them have a vague recollection of what we did in the 80s... we just need to win a few trophies again! (Easier said than done!)
I will add there is a kind of precedent for this as Feyenoord changed their name back in the 60/70s because non dutch people had problems spelling or pronouncing the original name I think.
Fortunately, Everton is quite an easy one
Fortunately, Everton is quite an easy one
I take your point re Juve, Benfica, Aston Villa, Feyenoord, Internazionale, and Ajax, but they all have won the European Cup and accordingly have a higher profile than we do. I’m merely talking about raising our profile absent radical success, so it’s not that preposterous to tweak our badge, surely? Even more so given the stink that’s being kicked up about losing our Liverpudlian identity in the move to Kirkby.
Well Jon I agree with what you are trying to achieve, I've often wondered why Everton FC didn't use some of its heritage more to create itself a unique identity (ie naming a new ground or even the training ground Dixieland, or the School of Science just to remind us of the past)... but then again I suppose they sound stupid :o)
I think us Blues over emphasise our history to a certain extent (possibly because its all we have left to cling to!) but a lot of clubs would love to boast a history like ours and yet the club seems to be giving more control of the image of the club over to the likes of JJB and Tescos. Bit by bit, the clubs image is being eroded in the city ? nevermind Europe.
I think us Blues over emphasise our history to a certain extent (possibly because its all we have left to cling to!) but a lot of clubs would love to boast a history like ours and yet the club seems to be giving more control of the image of the club over to the likes of JJB and Tescos. Bit by bit, the clubs image is being eroded in the city ? nevermind Europe.
Iain, that’s exactly right. We have an identity crisis because of an ever diminishing profile in and beyond Liverpool, on top of which we have to contend with the prospect of being a Kirkby club rather than a Liverpool club. Our history is the one rock of stability than we can cling on to in the midst of all the uncertainty around the club at this time.
I have just come back from the US and mainly due to Tim Howard they do know who we are - they can’t get hold of our merchadise - but they do know who we are.
The Greeks and the Dutch - and maybe others, I don?t know - call us "Everton Liverpool".
And Michael is right on the Everton Athletic name for Liverpool. How many reds from outside of Liverpool have I asked the question: what was your club?s original name? But only one has known the answer, so far.
By the way, I used to live in Madrid and quite near the Vicente Calderon ground, so this is a bug-bear of mine. It?s not Athletico Madrid. It is Atlético. No ?h?. The Spanish simply call the club Atletico without Madrid. The official name is Atletico (de Madrid) or ?from Madrid?.
By the way, Real Madrid is never called Real. It is either ?Real Madrid? or just ?Madrid?.
Football fans know us more than you?d think. It is non-football fans who have heard of Liverpool but not us for reasons explained above by others.
And Michael is right on the Everton Athletic name for Liverpool. How many reds from outside of Liverpool have I asked the question: what was your club?s original name? But only one has known the answer, so far.
By the way, I used to live in Madrid and quite near the Vicente Calderon ground, so this is a bug-bear of mine. It?s not Athletico Madrid. It is Atlético. No ?h?. The Spanish simply call the club Atletico without Madrid. The official name is Atletico (de Madrid) or ?from Madrid?.
By the way, Real Madrid is never called Real. It is either ?Real Madrid? or just ?Madrid?.
Football fans know us more than you?d think. It is non-football fans who have heard of Liverpool but not us for reasons explained above by others.
Roberto, I live in the Netherlands but never ever have I heard someone say "Everton Liverpool". Always just Everton.
On topic: I don’t think we need to add "Liverpool" to our name. These are the moves a small club would make.
On topic: I don’t think we need to add "Liverpool" to our name. These are the moves a small club would make.
I just noticed, even Google Earth shows Anfield in a 3D rendered model, but ignores Goodison. We don’t exist.
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I think Blues should be rightly proud of the name Everton, which is pretty unique. Changing the name of the club is no substiute for rectifying the years of negelect from the club's custodians who have sadly failed to live up to its proud heritage.