The loan last October no doubt covered the cash spent last summer, the bulk of which went on Yakubu. It's my understanding that Robert Earl didn?t put up the money, he (or Philip Green) merely provided the guarantee to the bank for the mortgage... the mortgage was more than likely to pay down the overdraft the club likely paid off a previous mortgage freeing up funds/borrowing for The Yak. The Guardian piece is a little misleading ? I think the £30m loan referred to is the Bear Sterns securitisation deal struck when Kenwright first took charge.

The most recent one is, I would guess, to provide funds for this summer seeing as the next injection from Sky doesn?t arrive, I don?t think, until after the new season has started.

Just to clarify, the report doesn’t say we took out a £30m loan in October - it says we took out 2 loans (no value stated), and goes on to mention the existing £30m loan with Pru.

I actually read this at about 1 am so reading it now it becomes a little clearer... So really this explains why when we never spent the money we were going to use to buy Manny, it was just put back into the ?pot? to repay the overdraft . At least we know that there is something there for DM to use.

My financial accumin (if that’s how it is spelt) is zero, however, if we’re mortgaging against future income i.e Sky money and season ticket sales, doesn’t this mean that when this money does come about it is already allocated for payment so nothing can be invested in the squad? Or do we keep mortgaing against future income, kind of like consistantly spending a few years in advance of our actual financial position.

Nick, no worries mate, the Kirkby Dome will earn us a whopping extra £10m each season so we can repay the debts in a few years! Repaying our debts will be just like a new signing!!

Seriously I have one thing to defend Wyness and Kenwright in this particular case: we have absolutely no idea of the details of these two loans. It could very well be that the loans are actually not that high and very short-term. As Michael Kenrick stated the second loan could just be cover the gap between the transfer window (which is open now) and the influx of the sky money (somewhere at the end of august or during the coming season?) in which case I can agree with the club to pull that money forward in this way.

It could be scare mongering by the guardian or we could do a Leeds. Thing is, with the information we have we have absolutely no idea which of the two it is...

Arthur - yes, I think we are a club with pretty serious financial constraints if we are to remain competitive in the top half of the Premier League. Nick - yes, the current financial strategy does seem to be "consistently spending a few years in advance of our actual financial position".

Although in theory sustainable (as long as you don?t hit an unexpected revenue shortfall a la Leeds), this financial strategy is certainly a rather expensive way to live. Given our actual situation, it certainly beats not borrowing the money and risking slipping down the Premier League. And adding debt against future revenues is pretty much the common strategy amongst clubs at the moment, so there is nothing particularly unusual about what we are doing. We are not Mrs Thatcher?s corner shop in Grantham.

Before we get a lot of caterwauling about ?selling off all our assets? etc. (the alternative being not to buy any new players), the real serious issues this raises are: how does this club of ours (a) consistently raise more revenues, and (b) receive more equity backing from a new investor (i.e. owner) so that we are not so reliant on expensive debt financing from banks.

Some of us would say that fairly dramatic action is now required. To break out of our current stable but very constrained position we need: a new owner; a new stadium (or at least a very heavily modified one); and we certainly need better marketing and merchandising.

The ultimate conclusion of us borrowing in October and last month is that our £60million Sky money for last season goes straight into the bank and running costs ... and not a single penny of it is available for transfers. We are robbing Peter to pay Paul... Wyness is an absolute clown...

Financial stability my hole!

You don't pay back a mortgage in one go, it's spread out ? that's the point, But we are struggling to find £20-30 mill a season for players without getting loans like this, hence the ground move.

In a simple sentence... We cannot compete with the top four while Kenwright and the other clowns are on the board. It's as simple as that....

We can pretend like we did last season but we always come up short on the football pitch and until we can get some assurance about a regular transfer kitty then it will always be the same. My worry is that if a better job comes up to David Moyes, not this summer but perhaps over the next 12 months I fear he may well take it..

It's not so much that I think Moyes is the greatest manager in the world ? he isn't and he never will be ? but my worry is that if he leaves then we will replace with a man who doesnt live up to Moyes ambitions, a shoe-string manager if you like because lets be honest with this board at Everton we are not going to get a manger who is used to winning things and is high profile. I really worry about the path Everton could go down in 12 months time at this rate. It will be almost impossible for Moyes to work another miracle and finish in the Uefa Cup slots again with this decimated and almost embarrassingly thin looking squad. I even think it will personally hurt Moyes to have to sell AJ, a player who less than two years ago Moyes said he wanted to build his team around. He was once Moyes's record signing remember? And he made it priority to hand a new contract out to Johnson last November..

I just feel that it's all got to be hurting Moyes badly whats happening, he must be thinking inside how he finished fifth last season and how he wanted to move Everton even closer to the top four and winning some long awaited silverwear, he even said after the season finished that this summer we were looking to get the new players in early, hopefully before pre-season started but thats gone by now.

There are times when I have been critical of Moyes tactical nous and ability to get the team playing how we want but the more time goes by I can see now that perhaps given the backing other managers around him get, the board are really taking the piss out of him and one day Moyes will turn around and put two fingers up to them, we just don't know when..

I am sure the cash flows have been worked out to the satisfaction of the lenders.

I think it is straightforward. Either we get into the Champions League and do alright for two or three seasons or we get a benefactor. If we don’t do either then we will remain a second tier club. Quite honestly the state of the game since the Premier League happened is depressing, and I don’t blame any of the Sky Four for taking advantage, it is just not competitive.

Having said that, how long before Man U or Liverpools owners pay off the debt? If we get Champions League it will sort us out. If Man U or Liverpool don’t then I think it would cause quite serious problems.

Rob Hollis, if we get to the Champions League we will probably take another loan to build a squad able to compete in the CL and to qualify us for the CL again. I don’t think that qualifying for the Champions League magically erases our financial struggles although I admit that it would help a bit.

As he must know the Club’s financial position far better than anyone else ,I suspect Moyes will just see out his present contract, thus keeping his options open on a move to a more stable club.No doubt he has given Steve Round assurance that if things don’t work out at Everton,they will move elsewhere as a team.
We live in troubled times.

Isn’t it a case of setting budgets based on finishing position. Bill hasn’t got the money to pay the way for us to keep improving the team. When he took over the debt didn’t magically disappear. What bothers me is that we start to do what we did when wally was in charge, buying big players like Materazzi, Dacourt, Collins et al, then not perform or have players sold from under your feet Ferguson, this totally unsettles the team, slowly the best players are sold on replaced with poorer players, Tony Thomas anyone and so on and it’s another downward spiral. We have to be realistic and realise that becasue we dont’ have the money we cannot compete, i don’t think it’s down to incompetance more over we just haven’t got the investment, or someone willing to stump up the money. So we have to build slowly, in the hope that season on season we get better on at least consolidate what we have in terms of position in the league, and also the team.

God forbid we turn into another Leeds.....

The financial situation makes the folly of BK playing at being Chairman even worse.

It was BK who wrote off, as a favour to a mate(!), what Sunderland owed us for Oster (Around £250k, I think?)

That money could have helped secured the France Collection or
God forbid gone to Moyes to spend on the team.

The RS were in a similar position with Sunderland concerning Stephen Wright although they only gave the Mackem?s longer to pay. They still got their money!

We are in need of some serious professionalism off the pitch!

As my Dad (a lifelong Evertonian) always says " We couldn?t organise a lucky dip!"

And he?s right!

I?m praying the move gets called in but have a feeling if it does the house of cards will come crashing down.

It?s a case of the lesser of two evils really.

Didn?t know that Ron. It?s not like we stood firm either when Michael Ball wanted to end his Rangers nightmare. The custodians of the club couldn?t be trusted to run a church tombola.

It?s even more galling to see reports that Blackburn, FFS, are attracting American investment. Whether you want American investors or not is not the point. If Blackburn can attract interest, how come Everton can?t?
24/7? Yeah. Right.

Do you think Kenright has any contacts at the BBC ?

If so perhaps we could get BLUE PETER to consider us for this years appeal.

I don’t know about you lot but I’m already saving my bottle tops !

With a bit of luck Moyes will walk this summer.

It will take something as drastic as that for sectons of Evertonians to see that Kenwright is a total oaf and is ruining this football club.

Maybe the loan is to cover the money we should have had for the sale of Bellefield until our good friends from the council, had a meeting with a free buffet and a few drinks, then tossed a coin, cause there are some really good tossers amongst them, then oh dear... looks like tails again, sorry no can do. Phwwrrp [raspberry]

Alternatively Neil Pearse it could be viewed as the board realising that they are never going to get the price they hoped they would get for selling the club. In the short term they borrow against all assets and furture earnings to keep the shareholders sweet and just run day to day. In order for the board, especially BK and KW to get any money (the money they feel they deserve) they concoct a deal which enriches them personally (further) having handed the decision to the fans after feeding them misinformation. That way they can then sell at a loss and hand the burden onto someone else whilst pointing at a democratic process.

Or perhaps I?m just skepical.

Jay Campbell: What an idiotic statement.

"With a bit of luck..."

So you?d consider it fortunate that someone doing something positive for our club leaves purely to give people like you the ability to say "I told you so" down the alehouse??

Disgusting

Agreed Joe.... If Moyes left us now we can forget about any chance of top ten ? never mind top 4!

Sorry Joe and Roy but I agree with Jay. It’s much more important that we prove that the people in charge are incompetant than it is to have a great manager leading us forward.

Surely you guys should know that footballs got nothing to do with results on the pitch but how much bitching us fans can do off it.

The fact that people ’bitch’ on here is nothing new, its simply magnified by the Internet - football has always been a game of opinions, the only difference is that in the past people would have these ’conversations’ in the pub, at work, on the bus etc....

Tony Cunningham:

So let me get this straight just so I understand it:

You want Moyes to go and chaos at our club just to prove your own/some other people’s pet theory about some perceived rotten core of our current board?

And what if you’re wrong??

What then??
Look at what you said!!

"It?s much more important that we prove that the people in charge are incompetant (sic) than it is to have a great manager leading us forward. "

Look at it!!!!


Like I said: Disgusting.

Anyone from Mars reading this board would think we have lurched towards relegation last season. Virtually all clubs are poorly run - the business model does not make any sense in the real world. Degrees of ’poorly run’ exist.

The fact is our club - outside of the Minny Moaners posting on here, in fact almost exclusively on here - seem to think our club is a model, a blueprint for turnaround. It’s not perfect, by a long way. A lot of the people here just don’t want to hear that fact repeated. Well, tough, I just did.

It’s certainly much better than I remember the last 15 years to be.

Our current troubles began many years ago with the absolutely disastrous administration of David Marsh taking over from Phillip Carter. Never mentioned anywhere, but this is the guy who ran down the League Champions. This is the guy who sold out to the great Satan, Peter Johnson. That guy nearly took us to the wall and I will be eternally grateful to Bill Kenwright - for all his failings - for taking that guy out of the picture by hook or by crook, for all you conspiracists out there.

Any problems today are just symptoms of a much older cause, first manifested as far as I can remember with Howard Kendall’s resignation over the refusal of Marsh’s administration over the transfer of Dion Dublin.

Who has history proved right over that episode eh?

Joe Clitherow yes I do and Moyes would well be within his right?s to walk.

Moyes has kept Kenwright and Wyness in a job for the last few years make no mistake of that. The lack of support he?s received off the board is a disgrace and it?s only because of HIS sucess?s on the pitch that has enabled to deflect away the attention that Kenwright and Wyness are a total let down to the name of Everton Football Club.

If he walk?s it will be the only solution to get Kenwright out and if it means losing him so be it. Anything is better than watching a incompetant bluffmerchant sell our club down the river raise the white flag and watch a slow death unfold in Kirkby.

I will "tell you so" when you're stuck in a half empty stadum in the sticks without a pot to piss in and Kenwright?s sunning his fat head on the Costa del Sol with "John Rambo", with Everton FC a distant thought coz he?s too busy counting the zero?s on his retirement fund.

Joe Clitherow, I think Tony’s being something the Americans like to call "Irony"... also known as sarcasm.

Jay Campbell:

I’d say I’ll look forward to what you describe except that I don’t. Nor do I think it will come to pass in the way you describe.

As for half-empty stadia: well that’s not a new thing for me. I’ve been in far less full ones. Most notably about a fifth of our current capacity, 8000 or so. I think it was a Wednesday night and we were playing Coventry City.

I’ll be there anyway.

Whatever his other faults (they are manifest, as I’ve said), anyone that suggests Everton will ever be a distant thought to BK needs to take a good hard look at themselves and what they’re saying.

From Disgusting to Ridiculous

Tell you what, I’ll join with you and we’ll get a list of possible replacement chairmen, eh?

Peter Ridsdale anyone?
Barry Fry?
Peter Swales (oh he’s dead, sorry)
Asian despots?
Porn peddlers/Fraudulent crooks?

No need to reply, you’ve convinced me

I?d much prefer to suffer the on-going chairmanship of Kenwright to the prospect of losing David Moyes. Although BB is no genius, he is only doing what every other chairman does and that?s borrow against the club?s assets and future income. Everton?s debt is negligible when compared with that of the only four clubs above us and many below.

This uncertainty will continue until Moyes is persuaded to sign a new contract although I can understand him wanting to keep his options open as any compensation a new employer would have to pay will reduce as the contract runs down.

Joe you may walk round with your head in the clouds but me, I?m with it.

Kenwright, like them all, are only interested one thing: MONEY and if you think otherwise then you truly are out of touch with reality.

He is a total failure and his track record proves it. Who cares anyway ? he?s a "true blue" isn?t he so he can do what the hell he likes can?t he?? As long as he sits in the directors box with his scarf on singing "It?s the grand old team to play for" we?re all happy aren?t we??

It?s this outlook from a large section of the fanbase that we have only won 1 major trophy in last 20 years. Happy to settle for this shit?? Not me, I want better for Everton and that will NEVER happen while Kenwright is in the hot seat.

I think we all need to take a reality check here in terms of transfer funding. The facts are that our average attendance is just under 37,000 (9th best in the Prem ? let?s be honest, this is simply not good enough). We have a board who are no longer willing or able (debateable) to invest any further personal wealth in the Club, we don?t have a queue of investors ready to invest millions into the Club or, at least, to make an offer attractive enough to tempt the Board major shareholders to change their stance on their unwillingness to sell.

We are already mortgaged up to the hilt and due to the credit crunch it would be unwise for anyone to enter into a long-term financial loan at the present rate of borrowing. So, I am afraid that this season will be one of consolidation and probably an absolute miracle if we achieve the league position we achieved last season. I would urge all fans not to rant and rave but sit back and think of the facts we have ? not conjecture and rumour.

David Moyes has not signed, Round has a year-on-year rolling contract and we have limited investment to put into squad building. Phil Neville today states on the OS that having the African contingent plus Howard, Arteta and Cahill back would be like having new signings... this is the first sign from the club of lowering fans expectation in terms of spend.

Best stance is expect little, get behind the boys and hope for the best..... oh, and bring a friend because we will need to bring them along if we are going to fill a 50,000 seater in Kirkby (DK in my opinion will not happen in a million years, thankfully). But seriously, we need all the bums on seats we can get over the coming years to help raise the coffers ? although this alone is not going to satisfy some of our ambitions. I look forward with interest to our Plan B destination and future ?vision? for our great Club.

Let me start by saying I have long since lost faith in "The Illusionist" and his sidekick but to talk about the only way of getting him out is for Moyes to leave is crazy.

The only thing shoring us up at the moment is Moyes's success on the pitch and the money we got for Rooney.

Our problem lies within. As supporters go we are probably the limpest in the prem. We come on here bitching and moaning instead of getting rid of the weakness in the club. Can you honestly see the RS putting up with this bullshit and being "Moved to Kirkby"?

Joe Clitherow, I don't disagree that Marsh was a disaster but Bill was certainly no saviour and was also part of those boards of directors. Since BK took over, TV money etc has rocketed and with Moyes's success on the pitch he has had the good fortune that Marsh and others didnt.

In the first year he took over, debts rose by £20 million and an auditor actually commented that, contrary to what the board were insinuating, those debts had arisen under the present regime. Until the day I die I will believe that was BK?s takeover money.

Since then, Moyes has survived on an average of £4.5 million a year for players and lost a number of players on frees.In the meantime we continue to make operating losses of £10 million a year and have now clocked up debts of £60 million despite the mortgaging of GP, the Rooney money and extra SKY money.

That to me is total and utter incompetence and does not support Moyes, as many claim, it actually undermines him and if we lose him as a result of all this it will be a disaster for the club.

Joe Clitherow wrote
"Tell you what, I?ll join with you and we?ll get a list of possible replacement chairmen, eh?

Peter Ridsdale anyone?
Barry Fry?
Peter Swales (oh he?s dead, sorry)
Asian despots?
Porn peddlers/Fraudulent crooks?"

How about lying thespians eh Joe. Oh sorry, we?ve got one of those.

Are Everton the new Leeds?
That's the way we are heading, if the banks call in the cash well we're in the shit big time and the dreaded A-word comes to mind, the same happened to Leeds. Kenwright and his henchman have to be held accountable. Something needs to be done now. The lies have to stop.

Jay Campbell: My final comment on this from cloud cuckoo land

Exactly what sort of realism do you want?

Take a look at how many clubs have won "major trophies" over the last 20 years then take a look at the previous 50 and see if you can see a pattern emerging.

Tell me how many of those 20 are the current administration responsible for and then apply this back to your pattern match. Cross reference that with league position over that period and if you come up with a different analysis to the one I have I’d be interested....except you won’t.

The fact here is that Everton FC missed several different boats at a critical time when the entire power base of footbal was changing. FACT. Blame Bill Kenwright if you want, I choose not to.

Finally, try to look at the world and see that people are not black or white, angels or demons, but rather shades of grey with different motivations in different areas and you may get a better perspective as a whole.

I did say more than once that Kenwright was not perfect and was certainly flawed but it seems you chose to ignore that fact, as other people on here have an extreme tendency to do when cold hard facts contravene their own simplistic view of the world.

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

All of this to me says one thing: we must move to Kirkby and increase revenues.

Those of you who say we must sell to service debt are probably a bit uneducated on the subject. The debt is spread probably over a commerical life of 30-40 years with interested paid per annum. Therefore increasing revenue at a new stadium by £10m per year doesn't mean we give the bank back £10m per year in £10m chunks... it means we have more money just to meet our monthly mortgage payment if you will.

Let's just hope like it was said that the 2nd loan is merely to bridge the gap between the Sky money arriving and not.

Certainly though, if they sell AJ that is very alaming stuff. Let's hope its just bullshit huh?

Joe Bill Kenwright has been on the board for over 15 years so how much blame is not at his feet then??

Yes a MEMBER of the board for over fifteen of those miserable 20 years or so. Still can we still not blame him??

He?s totally out of his depth and not fit to run Everton FC end of story mate.

MOYES HAS SAVED HIS BACON!!!!

I’m pretty sure, though I dont have any facts to back it up, but aren’t all Premiership clubs in massive debt? I know for certain the top 4 are!

Whats the big deal here? We know nothing about the finances of the club really, yet we all seem to know better? Chill fellas eh, its all pie in the sky anyway....none of you have anything to substantiate your arguments with hard facts anyway!

Anyone who thinks moving to Kirkby will increase revenues must be uneducated on the subject. The thing I find most worrying is the lack of financial transparency at the club, you just can't get a straight answer from anyone. The current cloud of uncertainty hanging over all aspects of Everton is very worrying; I get the impression we are going to fade away... very depressing.

Jay Harris, address this one issue for me if you could: Big Huge... GIANORMOUS(!!!) debts are okay for the teams above us ? what was it? Up to 65% debt to value? Is that not where Everton now are?

I can accept it?s a bad way to run any football club but explain to me please why they are ALL doing it? And why it?s okay for them but NOT okay for us? It funds their transfer kitty but (so you say) it doesn?t fund ours? What am I missing here?

Michael: And why it?s okay for them but NOT okay for us? It funds their transfer kitty but (so you say) it doesn?t fund ours? What am I missing here?

Probably because with their Champions League revenue (as much as £25-£30m per season, on top of their domestic and attendance income), they could pay it back a lot faster and more easily than we could with our vastly inferior turnover.

Isn?t that just a question of scale, though, Lyndon. Their income, turnover, expenditure on players are all an order of magnitude greater than ours. And their debts are an order of magnitude greater than ours.

I accept that the entire model is untenable... but we all seem to be surviving, and the money seems to keep rolling around.... so what?s the problem with our level of debt? As long as we can service the interest payments?

Jay Campbell keeps insisting that BK is a failure and leading the club to ruin but the ?facts? (our ascent out of misery to be the Best of the Rest ? idiotic ESCLA responses notwithstanding) would suggest the opposite.

I guess I?m just confused.... Where's Tony Lloyd when I need him???

Just been to the Echo Arena to pick up tickets for the Deacon Blue concert. It brought a lump to my throat at what might've been. Barrymore's mate Kenwright has got a lot to answer for.

Which begs the question ? Why even bother with the UEFA cup given the paltry revenue it generates?

Yes, moving to Kirkby will be a "slow death" and anyone who believes it will generate an extra £10 million a year for the club in revenue is a little detached from reality. There isn?t going to be a flurry of people going to Kirkby to pack out a 50,000-seater stadium in a retail park, be it ordinary fans or corporates. It beggars belief that some people still think moving to Kirkby will be our saviour. When the hell is this decision anyway?

Got to say that the whole Football business is for the birds. That Sepp Blatter has blown it apart. He thinks contracts are not to be honoured so why pay a transfer fee. The transfer market is dead long live the FIFA version. When players come a go each seaon it will be just like the England Cricket Team shock horror 6 games in a row same squad.So EFC won’t be spending money. It will be a slow slowly and slower transfer market. I predict nil satisfaction and nil optimism

Tony

Who gives a fuck if the stadium is in a retail park... Have you seen the place it is in now!?

Must point out I meant Anthony and also put in asterisks that have appeared as ?the F word?. As there might be kids viewing can I ask the editor to put the post as I sent it?

Rob, No. If you are going to swear, then grow some balls and swear ? don’t use this pathetic ***** cop-out. Do you really think kids don’t know what you mean? How old were you when you learnt the naughty words??? If you are worried about kids then it’s quite simple: don’t swear. I’m sure that works well for you at the game...

First of all, I have to say that I dreaded logging onto this site (that I love, but in which the contributions drive me to distarction, on occasions) after the "new loans" story leaked. BUT , many thanks, Lyndon, for your opening comments, that set the scene for rational analysis. If I may put a view, fellow concerned Evertonians, everyone realises that we have a fantastic opportunity to go to the next level, even after we "over achieved" relative to our financial clout over the last few years. BUT, we need to spend. Now, to spend we need to either
(a) make HUGE profits - Champions League is the only route or
(b) Have an owner who is prepared to invest (by way of Director?s loan) huge sums - remember, it?s a DEBT, by the way, or
(c) borrow money from a Financial Institution, repayable over a set period.

(a) is not on, yet. (b) is not possible - BK, as he admits, simply does not have it. (c) is the only route. That BK / KW have managed, seemingly, to achieve (c) is a fucking miracle, given our situation 7 years ago, so they deserve credit. Over to Moysey to spend it wisely. Shit or Bust..

Michael just a quick question how has Kenwright been the opposite to what I suggested??

From an outsider looking in maybe but not amongst many Evertonians.

Rob, for many reasons I prefer the place it’s in now, no question. A ’slow death’ is the best description I’ve heard in relation to DK

Jay Campbell, I don?t expect any change from your entrenched position of utter contempt for Kenwright (which is getting a bit boiring, to be perfectly honest), but here are a couple of things to consider.

Firstly, you cannot speak for all Evertonians and clearly from the other responses on this website, there are those who value what he has done for the club and certainly do not see him as the failure you keep saying he is.

A clueless luvvie, yes... but under his "leadership" (even if it is, in his terms, just as a figurehead), he has overseen a phoenix-like rise for Everton FC from the ashes of near-relegation to being Best of the Rest. We can argue about the merits of how that "success" has been achieved (and at what cost in terms of sold assets, big debts, etc) but only a moron would argue that this ascension was not a success.

Yes, you can claim that it is really all down to Moyes, who has done it in spite of Kenwright, and that there are many, many things wrong at the club off the field... but in terms of football, Everton are a success story, and isn?t that what we are at the end of the day ? a Football Club???

Personally, I have little respect for Kenwright and the ESCLA quotes sum him up for me, but calling him a failure just seems totally inaccurate to my mind.

Has anyone any info on something I have read on other sites that the 2nd morgage from Adam & Co last month was for the property, 94 Sanford Road, near Bellefield? If it's true, this puts a different spin on things! ie Why buy that house? Or do we already own the property and this is a 2nd mortgage...???

Michael, you're right ? my view on Kenwright will never change end of story. People can try and dress things up, weigh up the pros and cons etc etc but me, I know an idiot when I see one!!

Michael:

I know I said I was not going to post any more...but I meant that I’d made my point as I saw it and didn’t want to labour the point with people who were never going to change their views even as other points were presented.

...BUT

...I guess I wanted to say that your responses were pretty much exactly what I meant.

I don’t always (in fact seldom) agree with you but you’re bang on the nail here mate.
Look at FACTS not entrenched or misheld beliefs.

I don’t have a massive amount of faith at all in Bill Kenwright’s business abilities...but we could have a chairman who was a lot worse. Some posters on here want the perfect scenario; life isn’t like that.

There is no doubt at all in my mind BK loves the club and that is a big plus for me. He saved (yes, SAVED) the club from people who really are the ones most responsible for our current plight. The trouble is when people demonise they demonise 100%. so some people who hate BK for their own psychological transferential reasons decide that because they hate him, he isn’t even an Evertonian. Ridiculous and more than a bit sad too.

I have a long memory, and not a selective one either. No-one, NO-ONE, was interested in our club not so long back. No-one else was truly interested in our club in the final days of Johnson, not buyers, and even more crucially not players. BK scraped together all he could. We may not be in great shape financially now, but as I said and you re-iterated, not many clubs are. Real Madrid could be insolvent in a single day if the banks called loans in - exactly the same as people on here have said about Everton. We’re no different except that perhaps, because the absolute scale of our debts are so much smaller, it would theoretically mean that many more people or institutions could bail us out if need be.

We’re not where we all want to be yet but for a football club, the single best way to achieve success, whether you measure that by finance or trophies, is to improve on the pitch. It’s a virtuous circle.

Given that, we’re doing a lot better now than the days of Wimbledon and Coventry ( I was at both and I’m probably 10 and 5 years older respectively because of those days!)