The Mail Bag
The Kirkby poll result
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I know this is another Kirkby piece. But, I was wondering what the pro-Kirkby fans think about the latest Kirkby poll result, done on offeeweb? There was no biased question, just plain and simple...
Brian Waring, Posted 01/08/2008 at 22:20:02
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Can we assume the other 35,000 would have voted Yes?
What is amazing is that 30% of the people who come on here still want the ground move, even after reading what is put on here time and time again.
There is no way of knowing if the people who have said they have actually changed their minds or are just putting in an answer which they think will produce the best headline in their favour.
If I am correct the KEIOC forum has only 539 members. One you couple this with what appears to be a total lack of open protest against the move, I think you have a truer picture of the fans feelings. When you think about it unless you read certain internest sites, apart from a small plane you would have no evidence of any discord with the fans.
There is no way of knowing if the people who have said they have actually changed their minds or are just putting in an answer which they think will produce the best headline in their favour.
If I am correct the KEIOC forum has only 539 members. One you couple this with what appears to be a total lack of open protest against the move, I think you have a truer picture of the fans feelings. When you think about it unless you read certain internest sites, apart from a small plane you would have no evidence of any discord with the fans.
Interesting point to note. The people who said they were for was 51% which means that the people criticising the club’s vote are wrong it’s proven the club were given a mandate at the time.... wonder if KEIOC will take note and pack up and go home now....
Dont think so, Rich. KEIOC was formed to demonstrate EFC lied and still are lying to its fans, and they have proved that on numerous occasions.
Even if this thing gets the go-ahead, KEIOC will still be campaigning and proving that the custodians of our club are less than honourable and at least incompetent.
Tony,
How many people do you think are asked when an "opinion poll" is conducted before a general election? 2,000 people taking part represents a good number to guage opinion.
Kev and Rich,
Maths not your strong point guys?
As for protest, yes there has been apathy, mainly because its widely believed that BK would fuck this up - a belief based on all his known previous form. and a belief that the government wont bow to Tesco pressure and break their own laws by given DK the nod.
If DK gets the nod, don't dare come whinning about the protest that will engulf our club.
It sickens me that the very people who want to scoff "where?s the protest" are always the first to whine like arl women at the very mention of one.
How many people do you think are asked when an "opinion poll" is conducted before a general election? 2,000 people taking part represents a good number to guage opinion.
Kev and Rich,
Maths not your strong point guys?
As for protest, yes there has been apathy, mainly because its widely believed that BK would fuck this up - a belief based on all his known previous form. and a belief that the government wont bow to Tesco pressure and break their own laws by given DK the nod.
If DK gets the nod, don't dare come whinning about the protest that will engulf our club.
It sickens me that the very people who want to scoff "where?s the protest" are always the first to whine like arl women at the very mention of one.
I remain of the view that we will only receive the outside investment reuired to challenge the top 4 if we move to Kirkby.
I will never forgive KEIOC for flying the plane over Goodison before a derby match. We needed a united front before we played Liverpool and in my opinion it was treason in the face of the enemy.
I will never forgive KEIOC for flying the plane over Goodison before a derby match. We needed a united front before we played Liverpool and in my opinion it was treason in the face of the enemy.
Well, we?ll all be put out of our misery next week when GO will announce that they are happy with the project ?apart from certain undertakings they require from the main parties concerned.? The Knowsley MC publicity machine spent all day Friday cranking up for the announcement but will only answer questions and comments from borough residents/businesses.
Perhaps then we can get back to football!
Ian Edwards,
your post perfectly illustrates my point.
Perhaps you and the 30% of regular match going Evertonians who voted for DK, should have thought about a "united front" when you decided to wave the white flag and surrender the city to LFC
Treason?
Get your dictionary out, mate
your post perfectly illustrates my point.
Perhaps you and the 30% of regular match going Evertonians who voted for DK, should have thought about a "united front" when you decided to wave the white flag and surrender the city to LFC
Treason?
Get your dictionary out, mate
OK, we were all lied to with the fat guys ?deal of the century? and the kopites will take the piss if we move to Kirkby, but would that matter if the move meant we could compete with the top 4 in the financial stakes and be Champions League regulars? I don?t know if the move would create that revenue like some say, but staying at decrepit Goodison definitely won't.
Seperate issue: Blue Bill's probably not had his best of weeks as Chairman of Everton. I just read he and Ste Gibson of Boro? are the only chairmen who don't draw a salary from their clubs. Does put in perspective how much our Chairman loves the club. Shame his acumen doesn?t match his passion.
Seperate issue: Blue Bill's probably not had his best of weeks as Chairman of Everton. I just read he and Ste Gibson of Boro? are the only chairmen who don't draw a salary from their clubs. Does put in perspective how much our Chairman loves the club. Shame his acumen doesn?t match his passion.
Dave Wilson
30% Still in favour;
21% were in favour
51%
Don?t let your gremlins get you down!!!!
30% Still in favour;
21% were in favour
51%
Don?t let your gremlins get you down!!!!
Dave, the out-of-city problem has been mainfested by KEIOC and it has backfired on the whole club. I voted Yes and I?m still happy to proceed unless new investment allows us to look at other sites. To date, this has never happened so we move forward with this plan, simple as. The problem about DK and leaving the city is in your head, EFC will still be the same just means some people may have to jump on the bus for 10 minutes.... arh what a shame but must terrible for you all to make such a long trip in to the wide world of Knowsley are you all scared or is just you want you cake and eat it .......? In life things change all the time and this is just that we are moving house, simple as. COYB
Dave Wilson
The city of Liverpool includes parts of Knowsley (including Kirkby.) The Liverpool City Council boundary doesn't cover the whole city.
I bet your ancestors said we surrendered Anfield to the LFC when we moved to Goodison over 100 years ago.
If you?re happy seeing us suffer from lack of investment and fall further behind RS then you stay in your wooden victorian stand.
The city of Liverpool includes parts of Knowsley (including Kirkby.) The Liverpool City Council boundary doesn't cover the whole city.
I bet your ancestors said we surrendered Anfield to the LFC when we moved to Goodison over 100 years ago.
If you?re happy seeing us suffer from lack of investment and fall further behind RS then you stay in your wooden victorian stand.
Lee Calland, you say moving to Kirkby will enable us to compete with the top 4.... Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ? it?s the way you tell em.
My ?inside info? is the same as Ferdie?s. I suspect that most NO voters will, like me, accept the decision of the majority and move on to the next crisis the club attracts.
All in all, I bet there?s no more than 1000 ?anti?activists (the KEIOC boys have bushwacked this site so it?s the same few). I don?t think the club will be too sorry to lose this element as they should comfortably be able to replace them with newcomers of a more moderate disposition.
All in all, I bet there?s no more than 1000 ?anti?activists (the KEIOC boys have bushwacked this site so it?s the same few). I don?t think the club will be too sorry to lose this element as they should comfortably be able to replace them with newcomers of a more moderate disposition.
I have to say, like most other fans, I?m more concerned about the future of Moysey and the team!
Just to show what a farce this poll was, my 12-year-old son tells me he voted ?about 50 times? for all the options in turn.
Makes a change from FM, he says! John, you can vote as many times as you like on our polls... but it only registers one vote from each unique user. Glad your lad had such fun, though ;) ? The Editor
Makes a change from FM, he says! John, you can vote as many times as you like on our polls... but it only registers one vote from each unique user. Glad your lad had such fun, though ;) ? The Editor
Oh My God!!!
Rich, Kev, all of you think before you speak. 51% of the people who took the poll voted yes at the ballot. That is good for the pro Kirby group is it? Sadly that negates any arguments you have claiming that this site is overrun by the No voters. More than half of the people on this site, according to the poll, were Yes voters.
Secondly, 42% of your 51% have changed their mind as the promises have been broken, so now only 30% of the poll still want to move.
So a true interpretation of these results is that in a poll of voters, the majority of whom had voted in favour of the move, there has been a strong shift against the move with 70% of voters now not wanting to go to Kirby.
But of course it's all lies because KEIOC only has 539 members so that proves the majority of Evertonians want to move. After all the Tories have less than 250,000 members (0.4% of the population) So the majority of British people must support Labour at the moment. Oops no 45% Tory 20% Labour.
Rich, Kev, all of you think before you speak. 51% of the people who took the poll voted yes at the ballot. That is good for the pro Kirby group is it? Sadly that negates any arguments you have claiming that this site is overrun by the No voters. More than half of the people on this site, according to the poll, were Yes voters.
Secondly, 42% of your 51% have changed their mind as the promises have been broken, so now only 30% of the poll still want to move.
So a true interpretation of these results is that in a poll of voters, the majority of whom had voted in favour of the move, there has been a strong shift against the move with 70% of voters now not wanting to go to Kirby.
But of course it's all lies because KEIOC only has 539 members so that proves the majority of Evertonians want to move. After all the Tories have less than 250,000 members (0.4% of the population) So the majority of British people must support Labour at the moment. Oops no 45% Tory 20% Labour.
I dont think much of the poll at all, in fact i’m amazed Kirkby rated so highly given the views of this sites owners. As a webmaster myself of a computer techy site I can vouch that the results from these type of polls can be easily manipulated to what the owners want them to be, the key words are cookies and proxies...
Internet polls are very unreliable - put it this way... there will never be a serious decision/election made by an internet poll.
Speaking of Kirkby, does anyone have any news? Is the decision soon? I thought we were hearing before the MPs all went on their jollies?
I’m not even hearing any ’insider’ knowledge from the corridors of Goodison these days. It’s gone very very quiet considering how much rests on it.
I’m not even hearing any ’insider’ knowledge from the corridors of Goodison these days. It’s gone very very quiet considering how much rests on it.
Chris, as you say, it?s possible for this poll to be manipulated by the owners of the site; however, I for one fully trust the integrity of Michael and Lyndon. On the flip side, it is possible for any poll to be rigged, especially one that has ony one of the interested parties allowed access to the running totals of the voting pattern. .. Something I find not only unethical but bordering on desperate!
I wondered when the result would be fixed.
If the result had been in favour of the move the Yes voters would be shouting about it but because it?s against it?s a fix and doesn?t mean anything.
And before anyone says anything I doubt the No voters would be any better if the roles were reversed.
If the result had been in favour of the move the Yes voters would be shouting about it but because it?s against it?s a fix and doesn?t mean anything.
And before anyone says anything I doubt the No voters would be any better if the roles were reversed.
Rich,
I now know you don't even understand the poll,
Ian,
LFC didn't even exist when we moved from Anfield, so no point in dreaming up what you think my ancestors would have said. LFC were only born out of the owners need to find new tenants... if you know your history!
I now know you don't even understand the poll,
Ian,
LFC didn't even exist when we moved from Anfield, so no point in dreaming up what you think my ancestors would have said. LFC were only born out of the owners need to find new tenants... if you know your history!
Oh, I get it. The integrity of ToffeeWeb comes into question, but all you Yes voters claim that the club's vote was all above board. I know who I would trust, and it wouldn?t be that lying fucker Bill Kenwright.
The large numbers lend some credence to the results, and unlike the real vote where real people voted to continue the dialgue about Kirkby, I wouldn?t for one second say that this was fixed.
I still maintain that the majority of fans are either for the move, or its not a major issue for them.
A minority of fans under the dubious notion that Liverpool "belongs" to one team (whatever that means) is prepared to use all means fair and foul to stop a club moving 500 yards from the city limits.
I wonder what you?ll do if the Government come back and give the go ahead?
I still maintain that the majority of fans are either for the move, or its not a major issue for them.
A minority of fans under the dubious notion that Liverpool "belongs" to one team (whatever that means) is prepared to use all means fair and foul to stop a club moving 500 yards from the city limits.
I wonder what you?ll do if the Government come back and give the go ahead?
Ajarmu
Fight it ... fight it until somebody declares EFC of Liverpool are dead.
No need to wonder anymore, now you know.
Fight it ... fight it until somebody declares EFC of Liverpool are dead.
No need to wonder anymore, now you know.
I?ll be honest, I?m not pro-Kirkby or anti-Kirkby... but at the same time I?m happy to point out any hypocrisies that both sides of the argument are posting here....
I got pulled up for saying that 30 + 21 didn?t add up to 51 so that?s why I reposted.
Let?s not forget one thing. None of us are Everton FC, the fans aren?t Everton, the Players aren?t Everton, the Board aren?t Everton...
what we are is custodians of the idea that is Everton FC....
I?ll watch Everton anywhere, I was a season ticket holder at Goodison for 15 years, I?m as much a blue as anything... and to be honest I?ve reached the point where i?ve realised that matters off the pitch are outside my sphere of influence, so, and I?m sorry about the crudeness but fuck them..... All I can do is suport the boys on the pitch and anything else is pointless... the sooner we all remember this, the better!
I got pulled up for saying that 30 + 21 didn?t add up to 51 so that?s why I reposted.
Let?s not forget one thing. None of us are Everton FC, the fans aren?t Everton, the Players aren?t Everton, the Board aren?t Everton...
what we are is custodians of the idea that is Everton FC....
I?ll watch Everton anywhere, I was a season ticket holder at Goodison for 15 years, I?m as much a blue as anything... and to be honest I?ve reached the point where i?ve realised that matters off the pitch are outside my sphere of influence, so, and I?m sorry about the crudeness but fuck them..... All I can do is suport the boys on the pitch and anything else is pointless... the sooner we all remember this, the better!
Dave
One thing, I would prefer to stay at Goodison. However, the idea that a site like this can hold an internet poll and we can all draw from that a conclusion, dosen?t hold water.
I don?t think for one minute it was fixed, it just that the debate on this site is very one eyed. If you have an opposite point of view you would have stopped reading certain parts of this site a long time ago.
One of the reasons is that people like you, when they see the slightest sign of someone not exactly toeing the party line, jump down the throat of whoever is posting. You don?t appear to stop think and reason.
The whole debate is worthless as no-one is going to chnage sides now. The only thing worth watching is the ways both sides are trying to prove themsleves right.
One thing, I would prefer to stay at Goodison. However, the idea that a site like this can hold an internet poll and we can all draw from that a conclusion, dosen?t hold water.
I don?t think for one minute it was fixed, it just that the debate on this site is very one eyed. If you have an opposite point of view you would have stopped reading certain parts of this site a long time ago.
One of the reasons is that people like you, when they see the slightest sign of someone not exactly toeing the party line, jump down the throat of whoever is posting. You don?t appear to stop think and reason.
The whole debate is worthless as no-one is going to chnage sides now. The only thing worth watching is the ways both sides are trying to prove themsleves right.
Chris,
When EFC moved to GP the city was growing by over 100,000 per decade, there were absolutely no green field sites more central in the most densely populated city in Europe. The streets had already extended far beyond GP and would be for for a further 70 years or so. GP was engulfed by the city and hundreds of thousands of people straight away. This will never happen at Kirkby, where there is nothing beyond but fields and rugby towns. There is no comparison between then and now. No-one is building out of town footy stadiums anymore..... certainly not in 2 team cities, unless there is massive public transport provision for them. This is not going to happen at Kirkby! Absolutely no poll supports this farce now, just a few too proud to admit they’ve been hoodwinked by the best salesman in the business. The house of cards is falling apart as we speak.
When EFC moved to GP the city was growing by over 100,000 per decade, there were absolutely no green field sites more central in the most densely populated city in Europe. The streets had already extended far beyond GP and would be for for a further 70 years or so. GP was engulfed by the city and hundreds of thousands of people straight away. This will never happen at Kirkby, where there is nothing beyond but fields and rugby towns. There is no comparison between then and now. No-one is building out of town footy stadiums anymore..... certainly not in 2 team cities, unless there is massive public transport provision for them. This is not going to happen at Kirkby! Absolutely no poll supports this farce now, just a few too proud to admit they’ve been hoodwinked by the best salesman in the business. The house of cards is falling apart as we speak.
We had a vote. The Yes vote won! If you were eligible for the vote and didn?t vote then shame on you. If you weren?t eligible then it doesn?t really affect you because you are a part time supporter. The reason that this site is firmly in the ?No? camp, is that ?Yes? voters have cast their vote and can?t be bothered to argue with people who were either in the minority or didn?t/couldnt vote. Get over it, whether it?s called in or not, our club allowed those classed as eligible (in what was in the main, a fair selection process) to vote, which makes them the ?People?s club? in my eyes.
Are there any other clubs that gave their supporters a vote on a ground move? I stand to be corrected, but I don?t recall Arsenal, Boro, Bolton or Sunderland asking the fans (OK I know The Emirates is next door!)
Any guesses as to my vote?
BTW: Moyes is staying, we will make a couple of new signings, but BK is and always has been totally wrong for the club.
ToffeeWeb poll? You are joking! Aren?t you.........?
Steve,
Every EFC site is in the NO camp now. Show me one poll since the vote that suggests otherwise. There are no threads professing a change of heart from NO to yes, there are a multitude stating the opposite. Yes, we had a vote, but if you don’t mind I’ll not "get over it" when it was supported by so many lies and deceptions that have all since been exposed. Hence the need for an EGM, called by concerned shareholders including myself. If you were at the last AGM, you would also be left in little doubt as to which way the general concensus was regarding Kirkby. Its mastermind has done a runner for good reason..... he has no answers, as he hadn’t on that night! Kirkby has been shown up for all that it is...... a pipe-nightmare!!
Every EFC site is in the NO camp now. Show me one poll since the vote that suggests otherwise. There are no threads professing a change of heart from NO to yes, there are a multitude stating the opposite. Yes, we had a vote, but if you don’t mind I’ll not "get over it" when it was supported by so many lies and deceptions that have all since been exposed. Hence the need for an EGM, called by concerned shareholders including myself. If you were at the last AGM, you would also be left in little doubt as to which way the general concensus was regarding Kirkby. Its mastermind has done a runner for good reason..... he has no answers, as he hadn’t on that night! Kirkby has been shown up for all that it is...... a pipe-nightmare!!
So out of town stadiums don?t work and people don?t go watching. Manchester United don?t play within there city boundaries they play in Salford yet 80,000 week-in, week-out.
I rest may case good night and god bless
I rest may case good night and god bless
Chris Baker it?s easy to call into question the integrity of Michael and myself from behind a keyboard never having met us, but I can assure you that I?m not going to spend the time putting a poll mechanism together just to manipulate the result and deceive my fellow Evertonians. Quite frankly, I find the insinuation grossly insulting.
Kev Wainwright
You and Rich Jones came on rejoicing about the result, obviously you didnt understand the poll - Rich still thinks he can add 21% who changed their minds to the 30% who stick to their guns and claim a victory
You started spouting about lack of protest, claiming this was a true reflection of the real feelings of the fans
You’ve probably read several times and the penny’s dropped, NOW you claim " the poll doesnt hold any water" guess what ?
it never did, but it proves you are no angel when it comes to putting your own slant on things.
Isnt it strange how you and Rich are sudenly not pro DK ???
Please dont wave the "one eyed site" claim at me
in this thread alone you can see that its the yes men making all the noise telling proper Evertonians to pack up, calling them Traitors . . . total hypocracy
I have been going to GP since 65, I have missed only 6 away games in 14 years, travelling thousands of miles in the process but I’m still expected to listen to idiotic claims from Alan Willo, that I’m too lazy to travel for 10 minutes on a bus
One sided site ? I wish
at least it would put an end to the hypocracy
You and Rich Jones came on rejoicing about the result, obviously you didnt understand the poll - Rich still thinks he can add 21% who changed their minds to the 30% who stick to their guns and claim a victory
You started spouting about lack of protest, claiming this was a true reflection of the real feelings of the fans
You’ve probably read several times and the penny’s dropped, NOW you claim " the poll doesnt hold any water" guess what ?
it never did, but it proves you are no angel when it comes to putting your own slant on things.
Isnt it strange how you and Rich are sudenly not pro DK ???
Please dont wave the "one eyed site" claim at me
in this thread alone you can see that its the yes men making all the noise telling proper Evertonians to pack up, calling them Traitors . . . total hypocracy
I have been going to GP since 65, I have missed only 6 away games in 14 years, travelling thousands of miles in the process but I’m still expected to listen to idiotic claims from Alan Willo, that I’m too lazy to travel for 10 minutes on a bus
One sided site ? I wish
at least it would put an end to the hypocracy
Dave Wilson, so you are aware that every vote in this mock poll was ?unique?? Yeh, right - and no-one voted twice or more did they? You are as naive as the people you believe were who voted Yes in the first place. There is only one poll that counts.
Anyway, DK ain't happening ? no I have no inside info, just pure hunch - but what I am sure of is that the decision to ballot the fans has contributed to dividing the fanbase more than actually moving without a vote would have done.
At least ?some? fans had a say; any ?normal? club would have said bollocks to the fans - we are moving - end of. Anyway, like I say it just ain't happening, let's concentrate on the playing staff; fuck DK - and get it right out in the pitch first and foremost.
Anyway, DK ain't happening ? no I have no inside info, just pure hunch - but what I am sure of is that the decision to ballot the fans has contributed to dividing the fanbase more than actually moving without a vote would have done.
At least ?some? fans had a say; any ?normal? club would have said bollocks to the fans - we are moving - end of. Anyway, like I say it just ain't happening, let's concentrate on the playing staff; fuck DK - and get it right out in the pitch first and foremost.
Tony Webster
Your talking through your arse mate
I didnt even know the Poll existed until the jokers and the inumerate started drawing conclusions from it
Your talking through your arse mate
I didnt even know the Poll existed until the jokers and the inumerate started drawing conclusions from it
Chris,
You have not got a case.....(except that Old Trafford is a redeveloped stadium, not a relocation) Old Trafford is as close to Manchester city centre as GP is to Liverpool, if not closer. I have had the misfortune to walk it many times. Try that from Kirkby.
You have not got a case.....(except that Old Trafford is a redeveloped stadium, not a relocation) Old Trafford is as close to Manchester city centre as GP is to Liverpool, if not closer. I have had the misfortune to walk it many times. Try that from Kirkby.
Wilson - and you, of course, are talking absolute sense and we should all agree with your views.... hmmm. You seem a little angry mate.....let it go before it consumes you....
Steve Allen - as I said before, 51% of the people who took part in the poll originally voted YES, so this site is made up roughly half and half yes voters and no voters. It is not as you claim firmly in the no camp. It is just that people arguing against the move keep finding new things to say, whilst people like you can only repeat that the original result was Yes so your arguments are brief and empty.
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1 Posted 02/08/2008 at 08:48:50
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