The Mail Bag
The Future's Bright - The Future's Not Kirkby
Comments (41)
It seems the opinion of fans over the recent calling in of Destination Kirkby is as split as it always has been. Some are rejoicing in the streets, some are reaching for the razor blades, wrists at the ready.
I have always been against the move as it's not a long-term solution to our problems, and after the aditional revenue streams all seemed to be be seen to be unfeasable the whole project just looked like a bad idea. I get that we need extra revenue, need to attract investors etc, but this wasn't the correct way for the club to move forwards.
I've read a few people saying 'were fucked', 'this is the day Everton FC died' etc etc. Well its not! The board will have to go back to the drawing board and come up with something more feasible. This was a cheap option and was never good enough for a club steeped in our history. We will not go bankrupt because this deal didn't happen, in fact we will continue as we alwyas have.
Those who feel this is the end for our club, or that we are in some sort of precarious position are wrong. The board have brainwashed you in to thinking that we are literally up shit creek without this move... the board are full of spin... everything they have said about this move has been half truths or lies.
We are not any worse off than we were last season or the season before that (well maybe £10 million or so but that's a relatively small amount in this day and age). The club will continue to go on, prosper and hopefully now find a new home in a more suitable area, with a stadium that is deserving of a great club like ours (or a redeveloped Goodison).
In the long term this decision will be looked back on as a godsend. Ignore the board's spin on this subject, this is not the day the club died ? it's the day it survived!
Andy Hudson, Posted 06/08/2008 at 21:56:28
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I respect your posting Andy but I do disagree.
My opinion is we are well and truely fucked.
I’d much prefer to stay in the city boundary, but to do that , new goodison or new site will require anything from between 120m to 250m depending on who you believe.
Those who say we can rebuild Goodison have no financial plan for it.
Those who say we should move in the city have no plan for where the money will come from.
The Kirkby money came from the enabling retail development and the strength of the project that gave to the banks.
We’re fucked.
No stadium. No players. Green and Earl are best case scenarion not going to underwrite any more loans (-wrost case scenario they call the ones we’ve already spent in).
Our money for transfers for the short term is now based on operating profits and losses... which is absolutely nothing.
rejoice. its a black black black day.
My opinion is we are well and truely fucked.
I’d much prefer to stay in the city boundary, but to do that , new goodison or new site will require anything from between 120m to 250m depending on who you believe.
Those who say we can rebuild Goodison have no financial plan for it.
Those who say we should move in the city have no plan for where the money will come from.
The Kirkby money came from the enabling retail development and the strength of the project that gave to the banks.
We’re fucked.
No stadium. No players. Green and Earl are best case scenarion not going to underwrite any more loans (-wrost case scenario they call the ones we’ve already spent in).
Our money for transfers for the short term is now based on operating profits and losses... which is absolutely nothing.
rejoice. its a black black black day.
Look lads, a bit out of order there, I apologise.
Spot on Andy. By the way who?s paying for a non-cheap option for a club steeped in our history?
Our success is history, this is 2008 and we have not been really succesful for years. But hey ho we can still go to the match on the same bus or park in the same place and complain when the shite win the CL again...Wonderful.
Our success is history, this is 2008 and we have not been really succesful for years. But hey ho we can still go to the match on the same bus or park in the same place and complain when the shite win the CL again...Wonderful.
Born on the Wirral, never lived in the cultural capital of europe - hope you real scousers are really enjoying the ballet - why the fuck does some poll tax boundary have anything to do with the future of my club?
Bad day.
Bad day.
BK to all the No voters.
We are fucked, fucked i say.
This is the end my friend the end.....
We are fucked, fucked i say.
This is the end my friend the end.....
Agree with Ro. This sense of entitlement we have because of our ’history’ is annoying. When it comes to paying for a new stadium, our history is utterly irrelevant.
Keith
As a real scouser I could not agree with you more. Some clubs want to take over the world. Some supporters won’t even go to Kirby. Very bad day.
As a real scouser I could not agree with you more. Some clubs want to take over the world. Some supporters won’t even go to Kirby. Very bad day.
It’s Rob by the way Daniel. Angry typing.
I don’t see how this is good for the club whether pro Kirkby or not. At the end of the day, we’ve spent a ton of money over the last year or so pushing the project and will either end up in something even cheaper or stay where we are and fall further behind our competitors.
I think it’s a bad day for both camps. I dread to imagine how much money we’ve wasted pushing Kings Dock and then Kirkby.
I think it’s a bad day for both camps. I dread to imagine how much money we’ve wasted pushing Kings Dock and then Kirkby.
With all of the lies, the financial clout of an international supermarket giant and even the support of the local MP, in any other country in the world this would have happened and the Kirkbydome would have been built. A fair, straightforward decision by Mrs Blears who Im sure was under tremendous pressure to let this slip under the radar. If I had a hat I would take it off to you madam! Now the club can move forward, look at other alternatives, look for a better deal, look for investment and consolidate.Some of our rivals are almost 1 billion pounds in debt, Man Utd actually owes more than some countries GDP! The race it seems is not to be the best team, but who can run up the most debt and this simply cannot go on. The bubble will burst, hopefully we can focus on maintaining a good performance on the pitch whilst bringing some fiscal prudence off it.
Thank God for it being called in.
And you’re right, we will continue. Its nonsense about us being finished. How can a club who are in the upper eschelons of the richest league in the world be up shit creek just because £10 supposed extra income isnt there. We all know it would go into players’ pockets anyway.
Arsenal went to the CL final when playing at Highbury, love for us to get there and we’ll be in Goodison!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you’re right, we will continue. Its nonsense about us being finished. How can a club who are in the upper eschelons of the richest league in the world be up shit creek just because £10 supposed extra income isnt there. We all know it would go into players’ pockets anyway.
Arsenal went to the CL final when playing at Highbury, love for us to get there and we’ll be in Goodison!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To all the Yes voters wringing their hands - now you know how we felt when the vote result was published last year.
Why on earth you believe anything the liars at Everton - Kenwright, Ross and the happily departed Wyness - told you, I can’t work out.
This is a great day for Everton FC.
Why on earth you believe anything the liars at Everton - Kenwright, Ross and the happily departed Wyness - told you, I can’t work out.
This is a great day for Everton FC.
James
With fiscal prudence the western economy would die. Stop being so bloody sensible. Manageable debt is the way forwards young man.
Mr Fiscally prudent in number 10 is not exactly leading his team to glory is he?
With fiscal prudence the western economy would die. Stop being so bloody sensible. Manageable debt is the way forwards young man.
Mr Fiscally prudent in number 10 is not exactly leading his team to glory is he?
Spot on James,I also think this will be a blessing in disguise for EFC.I dont think he was connected to EFC,As more he may want to become involved.I dont think were as cooked as some people fear we may be about to become.I think its more like the fear of the now with BK at the helm.I think that these fears will come true if people dwell on the subject of DK,Let the people who know a lot more than we will ever know about all the issues sort it out.In the meantime lets support our team next week "With all your HEART"They are the only ones to come out of this with any respect and we all LOVE them DONT WE.
reading this posting makes me feel like americans when kennedy was shot. we have no clue what we dont know about EFC right now. the only thing that is for sure is that it is not good. clearly no money to bolster an already thin squad. and noone to fill the creative midfielder vacuum. the much maligned moyes suddenly becomes our only savior. because we know the likes of allardyce (aka relegation) await in the wings. the transparency of EFC is galling right now. leeds future awaits. there can be no silver lining. i feel low. like a leaf falling from a tree, as autumn turns to winter.
Sorry i forgot to tell you who i was talking about,It was Sir Philipp Green.
Rob,
Fiscal prudence, sensible investment, speculation to accumulate etc etc - all these can only be judged after the risk has been taken (or not taken). The proper response is a balance between the two. Leeds is the example which must always be in our minds, as well as those teams which have successfully ’speculated to accumulate’
I took a lot of stick a few years back for suggesting on a fans forum that a few more clubs ’doing a Leeds’ would be to the ultimate benefit of football in this country. I’ve not changed my view, though.
I
Fiscal prudence, sensible investment, speculation to accumulate etc etc - all these can only be judged after the risk has been taken (or not taken). The proper response is a balance between the two. Leeds is the example which must always be in our minds, as well as those teams which have successfully ’speculated to accumulate’
I took a lot of stick a few years back for suggesting on a fans forum that a few more clubs ’doing a Leeds’ would be to the ultimate benefit of football in this country. I’ve not changed my view, though.
I
The IC Liverpool website is saying that the Kirby plan included a £50,000 stadium for Everton.
Was it a shed or truly the bargain of the century?
Was it a shed or truly the bargain of the century?
The problem is that nothing else is on offer. We need new investment in the club, and short of pulling down a few hundred houses around Goodison and re-siting the main road running near it, expansion and redevelopment isn’t possible there.
When I start hearing actual alternatives being offered, fair enough. But there are none on offer.
When I start hearing actual alternatives being offered, fair enough. But there are none on offer.
Arrrghh im gutted theres no thumbs up option under "The News" on the offical site.
http://www.geocities.com/evertonia.geo/kingsdock.jpg
This picture makes me feel sad.
This picture makes me feel sad.
I wonder what you will think if Moyes resignation is the Echo headline this afternoon.
Its been no secret that something had to give in the financial market over the last few years due to all that credit floating around. And also no secret the price of raw material’s rocketing due to the vast growth in asia etc.
What is the cost of an extra year of waiting? I could only guess like everyone else. I do know that (taken from www.meps.co.uk):
Carbon Steel for Structural Sections and Beams has gone up from $768 per tonne in March 07, to $1321 per tonne as of July 08 (Ashburton Grove has over 15,000 tonnes of steel). And any market analyst will tell you, its certainly not going to go down given the growth in developing countries.
I am a supporter of DK, based on the fact I have seen FUCK ALL else that comes close to it, and we NEED a new Stadium (3 years ago to be honest). Nobody is going to pay to re-develop GP, Nobody is going to pay for land in the city centre. Nobody is going to invest in us if they see a huge inital outlay for a stadium, with no guarantee that the team will break into CL football (no return possible for many years). We are not in London, we dont have a global brand (nothing to do with marketing like some idiots mention, we just are not popular enough due to on the pitch performance, we havent won anything consistently for over 20 years). So I understand that DK was not the perfect option, but was the most affordable one. I’d love to buy a Ferrari, but I simply cant afford it so make do with cheaper car’s. I could get the loan’s to buy a Ferrari, but that would mean I have no money for anything else. So affordability is a key point. Its common knowledge, that is is more expensive to re-develop something than it is to knock it down and build a new one. Not to mention the loss of revenue while stands are under development. I too wish we could have something better, everybody does!! But without funding we will continue to stay at Goodison, while our cash flow dwindles even further, and investment becomes harder and harder to get. If somebody can give a viable alternative, then I am sure it will be looked at. But I have seen nothing yet to give me reason to believe there is other options. Bill Kenwright has done his best, I have no doubt about that. He has made mistakes, but if anybody can tell me he hasnt improved the club since he took over, I would be very suprised. Hats off Bill, you took us to your ceiling and are now holding on for the RIGHT investor. I truly believe he should be commended for that.
What is the cost of an extra year of waiting? I could only guess like everyone else. I do know that (taken from www.meps.co.uk):
Carbon Steel for Structural Sections and Beams has gone up from $768 per tonne in March 07, to $1321 per tonne as of July 08 (Ashburton Grove has over 15,000 tonnes of steel). And any market analyst will tell you, its certainly not going to go down given the growth in developing countries.
I am a supporter of DK, based on the fact I have seen FUCK ALL else that comes close to it, and we NEED a new Stadium (3 years ago to be honest). Nobody is going to pay to re-develop GP, Nobody is going to pay for land in the city centre. Nobody is going to invest in us if they see a huge inital outlay for a stadium, with no guarantee that the team will break into CL football (no return possible for many years). We are not in London, we dont have a global brand (nothing to do with marketing like some idiots mention, we just are not popular enough due to on the pitch performance, we havent won anything consistently for over 20 years). So I understand that DK was not the perfect option, but was the most affordable one. I’d love to buy a Ferrari, but I simply cant afford it so make do with cheaper car’s. I could get the loan’s to buy a Ferrari, but that would mean I have no money for anything else. So affordability is a key point. Its common knowledge, that is is more expensive to re-develop something than it is to knock it down and build a new one. Not to mention the loss of revenue while stands are under development. I too wish we could have something better, everybody does!! But without funding we will continue to stay at Goodison, while our cash flow dwindles even further, and investment becomes harder and harder to get. If somebody can give a viable alternative, then I am sure it will be looked at. But I have seen nothing yet to give me reason to believe there is other options. Bill Kenwright has done his best, I have no doubt about that. He has made mistakes, but if anybody can tell me he hasnt improved the club since he took over, I would be very suprised. Hats off Bill, you took us to your ceiling and are now holding on for the RIGHT investor. I truly believe he should be commended for that.
A mid-level stadium in the sticks a missed opportunity!!!
Time to put an end to the Kenwright era finally.
Time to put an end to the Kenwright era finally.
Any new investor would always get a return on a new stadium that they might build.BK was never going to GIVE away the Kirby stadium so any new investor would pay for it anyway.
Why would this stop anyone investing.Arsenal weren’t short of investors while at Highbury were they?
Why would this stop anyone investing.Arsenal weren’t short of investors while at Highbury were they?
So after 130 years history and 112 in our so called shithole, two world wars, heysel,relegation we are going to die!
Some people just dont get it, mark my words all of a sudden redevelopment plans will appear in The Daily Post within months, that means plan B, the man is a disgrace, why do you think all that media spin came out about he will sell to a big buyer if we move? he knew it was getting called in , he should walk for this, The Kings dock he should of walked but this.
I am over the moon about this soul of our killing exercise being killed off but gutted about the shit the club has been left in over it and dont be blaming LCC and whoever, the book stops with the lying fraud, but dont ask him why, he is just like you and me, just a fan, the clubs chairman!
Some people just dont get it, mark my words all of a sudden redevelopment plans will appear in The Daily Post within months, that means plan B, the man is a disgrace, why do you think all that media spin came out about he will sell to a big buyer if we move? he knew it was getting called in , he should walk for this, The Kings dock he should of walked but this.
I am over the moon about this soul of our killing exercise being killed off but gutted about the shit the club has been left in over it and dont be blaming LCC and whoever, the book stops with the lying fraud, but dont ask him why, he is just like you and me, just a fan, the clubs chairman!
Jimmy Lanson Arsenal werent short of a trophy either ,or short of champions league football every year.
I have mixed emotions but most peolpe are blisfully blind to the fact that there isnt an alternative at the minute.
By the way I though KEIOC were a disgrace especially showing to the people of Kirkby a video of football hooligans telling them "this is what you can expect"
I have mixed emotions but most peolpe are blisfully blind to the fact that there isnt an alternative at the minute.
By the way I though KEIOC were a disgrace especially showing to the people of Kirkby a video of football hooligans telling them "this is what you can expect"
I’m shocked that people are still coming out with the same worries as before:
1) No viable alternative
Well no of course there’s not, we’ve had an exclusivity deal with Tesco so no other option could be looked at! There are will be alternatives, we have just refused to even consider looking for them.
2) The club is fucked
How can we be fucked? We’ve operated fine before DK came along, why are we suddenly unable to operate now? If it takes us another 5-10 years to find an alternative and build it are we suddenly going to go bust in that time? Are the board that short sighted that they would have allowed us to get in that position? Is there not someone out there who would bail us out if that did happen? Please show some common sense!
3) No investors will be interested now.
Are you sure about that? Do you not think that investors have come along in the past wanting to buy the club, only to be turned away by Kenwright? The man stood to make a huge amount of money if the stadium went ahead, do you think he would have accepted less and sold the club before the decision on Kirkby? There are investors out there, hopefully Kenwrights position will now become untenable and he will have to finally sell to someone. I do not believe no one will buy our club because of Goodison... but Bill will have to accept less then he wants!
1) No viable alternative
Well no of course there’s not, we’ve had an exclusivity deal with Tesco so no other option could be looked at! There are will be alternatives, we have just refused to even consider looking for them.
2) The club is fucked
How can we be fucked? We’ve operated fine before DK came along, why are we suddenly unable to operate now? If it takes us another 5-10 years to find an alternative and build it are we suddenly going to go bust in that time? Are the board that short sighted that they would have allowed us to get in that position? Is there not someone out there who would bail us out if that did happen? Please show some common sense!
3) No investors will be interested now.
Are you sure about that? Do you not think that investors have come along in the past wanting to buy the club, only to be turned away by Kenwright? The man stood to make a huge amount of money if the stadium went ahead, do you think he would have accepted less and sold the club before the decision on Kirkby? There are investors out there, hopefully Kenwrights position will now become untenable and he will have to finally sell to someone. I do not believe no one will buy our club because of Goodison... but Bill will have to accept less then he wants!
Andy,
1.) So what are these alternatives that we have refused to look at? The Loop Site was a complete joke, and apart from that I dont know of any other solid offer. As a developer, you must look at all things. If there was an interested party who could offer a Stadium as per DK, within the city boundary, within EFC’s budget, dont you think they would make it public? Imagine the support they would get from all the fan’s! And not just No voters, but ALL voters would want it. The board could never sanction DK if there was a VIABLE (important word) alternative. Exclusivity does not stop another developer making it known ’we have a better option’. if there WAS a better option, why wouldn’t Bill take it?? Please explain why BK would benefit more going to Kirkby than he would staying in the city. I have never heard a valid reason as to why he would do that.
2.) I think the point was the club is less likely to move forward if we stay ’as is’, rather than we will close down. You are right, we wont go bust. But will we progress in those 5-10 years without any cashflow?? Thats the question. Will we NEED a 50,000 seater after 5-10 years of poor cashflow? Thats the bigger question.
3.) Can you please give an example of a ’suitable’ investor (one that wouldnt asset strip us and then sell up, and provided a clear vision of how to take the club forward) who tried to take over EFC? Just one example will do of who Bill ’turned away’.
I hope somebody can give me some clarity on this. And I want facts, rather than ’in my opinion’...
1.) So what are these alternatives that we have refused to look at? The Loop Site was a complete joke, and apart from that I dont know of any other solid offer. As a developer, you must look at all things. If there was an interested party who could offer a Stadium as per DK, within the city boundary, within EFC’s budget, dont you think they would make it public? Imagine the support they would get from all the fan’s! And not just No voters, but ALL voters would want it. The board could never sanction DK if there was a VIABLE (important word) alternative. Exclusivity does not stop another developer making it known ’we have a better option’. if there WAS a better option, why wouldn’t Bill take it?? Please explain why BK would benefit more going to Kirkby than he would staying in the city. I have never heard a valid reason as to why he would do that.
2.) I think the point was the club is less likely to move forward if we stay ’as is’, rather than we will close down. You are right, we wont go bust. But will we progress in those 5-10 years without any cashflow?? Thats the question. Will we NEED a 50,000 seater after 5-10 years of poor cashflow? Thats the bigger question.
3.) Can you please give an example of a ’suitable’ investor (one that wouldnt asset strip us and then sell up, and provided a clear vision of how to take the club forward) who tried to take over EFC? Just one example will do of who Bill ’turned away’.
I hope somebody can give me some clarity on this. And I want facts, rather than ’in my opinion’...
Hi Dan, in response:
1) Can I just draw your attention to one of your own comments here "And I want facts, rather than ?in my opinion?... "
The loop site was said to be viable by none other then a stadium development company... I forget the name but i’m pretty sure they were the ones who built the Emirates stadium. The club where the ones who said this wasn’t feasable, yet i’m more inclined to believe a company that builds these things then our board who constantly twist the truth to suit their needs.
I dont have the answer to a viable alternative, but it seems by entering in to an exclusivity agreement that they wouldn’t even look or consider alternatives. That wasn’t a healthy thing to do! I don’t believe there are NO other alternatives, including re-developing Goodison which I think we would all prefer, and has been shown to be viable.
2) yes we might not progress as quickly as we would with a new stadium, but for the extra £10m we would have gained a season from DK I can’t see how we would have dramatically changed our fortunes... £10m in footballing terms aint that much! And we would have had to offset some of that anyway to pay for the stadium no doubt. Selling our long term future for a average stadium, for £10m a year to me does not add up. However I agree we will need a 50,000 seater stadium in the not to distant future.
3) Well the belief is that Randy Learner tried to buy the club and was rebuffed. I cannot give a definate ’yes’ this really happened as I dont work for the club and would imagine only those at the very top will have any information regarding who has actually contacted kenwright about possibly buying the club. I dont really see how you can ask this question as no-one can actually answer it, in the same way you couldnt guarantee no one has come in with any offer to buy the club.
1) Can I just draw your attention to one of your own comments here "And I want facts, rather than ?in my opinion?... "
The loop site was said to be viable by none other then a stadium development company... I forget the name but i’m pretty sure they were the ones who built the Emirates stadium. The club where the ones who said this wasn’t feasable, yet i’m more inclined to believe a company that builds these things then our board who constantly twist the truth to suit their needs.
I dont have the answer to a viable alternative, but it seems by entering in to an exclusivity agreement that they wouldn’t even look or consider alternatives. That wasn’t a healthy thing to do! I don’t believe there are NO other alternatives, including re-developing Goodison which I think we would all prefer, and has been shown to be viable.
2) yes we might not progress as quickly as we would with a new stadium, but for the extra £10m we would have gained a season from DK I can’t see how we would have dramatically changed our fortunes... £10m in footballing terms aint that much! And we would have had to offset some of that anyway to pay for the stadium no doubt. Selling our long term future for a average stadium, for £10m a year to me does not add up. However I agree we will need a 50,000 seater stadium in the not to distant future.
3) Well the belief is that Randy Learner tried to buy the club and was rebuffed. I cannot give a definate ’yes’ this really happened as I dont work for the club and would imagine only those at the very top will have any information regarding who has actually contacted kenwright about possibly buying the club. I dont really see how you can ask this question as no-one can actually answer it, in the same way you couldnt guarantee no one has come in with any offer to buy the club.
People say it?s good because a ?mid level stadium? is not enough for Everton. I agree, but as we are skint I don?t see us being able to afford something ?world class? unless you have the money Jay Campell?
Hi Andy,
If redeveloping GP is viable, then why are they not doing it?? The Stadium would be worth MORE in that location if BK really wants to sell up after the Stadium issue is resolved!!! I dont see any logic in him wanting to go to DK if there are other viable alternatives.
I agree, 10 mill on its own isnt much in todays market. But you used the word that describes it perfectly. Its an EXTRA 10 mill on top of todays current Flow. Its the difference between Moutinho and Arshavin. Its the difference between Yakubu and David Villa (Yes, I know he wouldnt come, but you see my point!). And a new stadium surely has an influence on bringing in new players, and new investment?
After having a quick scout on Google, it seems Randy Lerner made an assessment of EFC as a potential club, but didnt actually make a bid, and opted for Villa. Its a wild guess, but maybe their stadium had a lot to do with that? He didnt need to pump millions into a stadium, and instead put it into the team to improve his stock. Just a guess, but I cant see any other reason he would opt for Villa. For all DK’s failings, its still far superior to White Heart Lane, Villa Park and all the rest of the Premiership’s 2nd tier. Or am I the only one who thinks that??
This really is a tough decision, and not time for gloating from either side. But without the advent of any foreseeable alternatives, without any billionaire who is bored on the horizon, to stand still is as good as going backwards. I am pretty sure we wont need a 50,000 stadium in 5 or 6 years time without a decent cashflow to keep this current squad level ahead of the chasing pack (DK has took around 2.5 years just to get to here!). I really hope I am wrong on that if it turns out DK fails.
On a positive note, the AJ saga is over, lets hope it triggers some bidding for players!
If redeveloping GP is viable, then why are they not doing it?? The Stadium would be worth MORE in that location if BK really wants to sell up after the Stadium issue is resolved!!! I dont see any logic in him wanting to go to DK if there are other viable alternatives.
I agree, 10 mill on its own isnt much in todays market. But you used the word that describes it perfectly. Its an EXTRA 10 mill on top of todays current Flow. Its the difference between Moutinho and Arshavin. Its the difference between Yakubu and David Villa (Yes, I know he wouldnt come, but you see my point!). And a new stadium surely has an influence on bringing in new players, and new investment?
After having a quick scout on Google, it seems Randy Lerner made an assessment of EFC as a potential club, but didnt actually make a bid, and opted for Villa. Its a wild guess, but maybe their stadium had a lot to do with that? He didnt need to pump millions into a stadium, and instead put it into the team to improve his stock. Just a guess, but I cant see any other reason he would opt for Villa. For all DK’s failings, its still far superior to White Heart Lane, Villa Park and all the rest of the Premiership’s 2nd tier. Or am I the only one who thinks that??
This really is a tough decision, and not time for gloating from either side. But without the advent of any foreseeable alternatives, without any billionaire who is bored on the horizon, to stand still is as good as going backwards. I am pretty sure we wont need a 50,000 stadium in 5 or 6 years time without a decent cashflow to keep this current squad level ahead of the chasing pack (DK has took around 2.5 years just to get to here!). I really hope I am wrong on that if it turns out DK fails.
On a positive note, the AJ saga is over, lets hope it triggers some bidding for players!
Dan: The answer is greed and selfishness on BK's part. Get over it.
Dave,
thanks for the constructive reply. If he is greedy, then why take the option that is worth the least to his EFC stock? Any construction within the Liverpool boundary is worth a lot more than DK surely?
thanks for the constructive reply. If he is greedy, then why take the option that is worth the least to his EFC stock? Any construction within the Liverpool boundary is worth a lot more than DK surely?
Dan,
Celtic redeveloped Parkhead via a Rights Issue - essentially giving fans the opportunity to invest. The Celtic chairman at the time, Dermot Desmond, created the scheme and ensured that as he diluted his stock, there was a mechanism to recompense him and at the same time, re-build the stadium.
I’ve summarised things there - if you want to know more, go google.
Kenwright - apparently such an Everton fan as chairman that he searches 24x7 365 days per year for "the right investment" - hasn’t yet seen fit to seriously investigate the possibility of replicating Celtic’s scheme.
Kirkby - not as you suggest the only realistic option, but in fact the only option that would have involved Kenwright doing (basically) bollocks all.
Goodison/Stadium inside the city - entirely possible if he’s prepared to accept his shares will be diluted (arguably only temporarily).
Pity he didn’t think about these things more deeply before he hocked most of his shares (and God knows what else within EFC) to Mr Rag Trade.
Celtic redeveloped Parkhead via a Rights Issue - essentially giving fans the opportunity to invest. The Celtic chairman at the time, Dermot Desmond, created the scheme and ensured that as he diluted his stock, there was a mechanism to recompense him and at the same time, re-build the stadium.
I’ve summarised things there - if you want to know more, go google.
Kenwright - apparently such an Everton fan as chairman that he searches 24x7 365 days per year for "the right investment" - hasn’t yet seen fit to seriously investigate the possibility of replicating Celtic’s scheme.
Kirkby - not as you suggest the only realistic option, but in fact the only option that would have involved Kenwright doing (basically) bollocks all.
Goodison/Stadium inside the city - entirely possible if he’s prepared to accept his shares will be diluted (arguably only temporarily).
Pity he didn’t think about these things more deeply before he hocked most of his shares (and God knows what else within EFC) to Mr Rag Trade.
Hi Dan,
Redeveloping Goodison is feesable as the board even said ’If DK gets called in we will look again in to the possibility of redeveloping Goodison Park’. I also think that the council are now more prepared to help us out with this proposal now then before, as they have already talked about moving the school etc. However I don’t believe it would be worth more the DK if we did this as DK was a brand new purpose built stadium rather then an old redeveloped stadium. In any walk of life something brand new is worth more then something old and repaired/improved.
I agree £10m a year would be lovely, it really would! But selling the future of our club for this amount isn’t worth it. If it porduced £30m a year extra i’d be gutted it got called in, but to spend potentially the next 100-150 years in a second rate stadium for an extra £10m a year isn’t worth it. Although i’m not denying your comments that a new stadium would help bring in investment and players, it certainly makes it harder without this, but I dont believe it makes it impossible. West Ham got investment and their stadium needs replacing... same with Pompey.
We’ll never know for definate about the Randy Learner or any other investor for that matter, but I definately disagree that DK would be better the Villa Park, or even Shite Fart Lane. For me it wasnt better then Goodison, certainly not better the St James’ Park... and in no way even comparable to the ’what if’ Kings Dock.
I take on board your point about standing still. Its going to be difficult to keep progressing when all our main competitors are spending vast amounts of money every year, but we do have an excellent academy, a young squad that has grown together and is a solid unit. I’d take that any day over something like Sven’s rein at Man City.
Redeveloping Goodison is feesable as the board even said ’If DK gets called in we will look again in to the possibility of redeveloping Goodison Park’. I also think that the council are now more prepared to help us out with this proposal now then before, as they have already talked about moving the school etc. However I don’t believe it would be worth more the DK if we did this as DK was a brand new purpose built stadium rather then an old redeveloped stadium. In any walk of life something brand new is worth more then something old and repaired/improved.
I agree £10m a year would be lovely, it really would! But selling the future of our club for this amount isn’t worth it. If it porduced £30m a year extra i’d be gutted it got called in, but to spend potentially the next 100-150 years in a second rate stadium for an extra £10m a year isn’t worth it. Although i’m not denying your comments that a new stadium would help bring in investment and players, it certainly makes it harder without this, but I dont believe it makes it impossible. West Ham got investment and their stadium needs replacing... same with Pompey.
We’ll never know for definate about the Randy Learner or any other investor for that matter, but I definately disagree that DK would be better the Villa Park, or even Shite Fart Lane. For me it wasnt better then Goodison, certainly not better the St James’ Park... and in no way even comparable to the ’what if’ Kings Dock.
I take on board your point about standing still. Its going to be difficult to keep progressing when all our main competitors are spending vast amounts of money every year, but we do have an excellent academy, a young squad that has grown together and is a solid unit. I’d take that any day over something like Sven’s rein at Man City.
Please forgive my ignorance here, but could someone please explain what exactly the term 'Called In' regarding the Kirkby project means? To me all parties seem to have agreed the move in pricipal, but the Government has apparently 'Called it in' Can't they keep their fat noses out of anything? By the way I would prefer to remain in the City...but enough has been said about that already.
Andy:
"...... we’ve operated fine before DK.... "
So presumably the Board were " operating fine ", then ?
"...... we’ve operated fine before DK.... "
So presumably the Board were " operating fine ", then ?
Hi Peter,
To a certain extent yes. I believe we have improved in much greater terms then our debt has increased. I don’t think we will go bust with this particular board at the helm. Hell I used to actually quite like Kenwright, and in someway I still find him a likeable character. The problem is the half truths, lies and spin that comes out of our club for this board. I think as a short term solution Kenwright did well until he tried to move us to a average stadium outside the city boundries... my main gripe here isn’t the location but the quality of the stadium and the lies and half truths about it.
So yes in answer to your question we operated fine before DK with this board at the helm. They cannot be seen as a long term solution and Kenwright has even said this himself, but we have improved on the pitch whilst only increasing our debt in relatively small terms compared to other teams in the Premier League.
To a certain extent yes. I believe we have improved in much greater terms then our debt has increased. I don’t think we will go bust with this particular board at the helm. Hell I used to actually quite like Kenwright, and in someway I still find him a likeable character. The problem is the half truths, lies and spin that comes out of our club for this board. I think as a short term solution Kenwright did well until he tried to move us to a average stadium outside the city boundries... my main gripe here isn’t the location but the quality of the stadium and the lies and half truths about it.
So yes in answer to your question we operated fine before DK with this board at the helm. They cannot be seen as a long term solution and Kenwright has even said this himself, but we have improved on the pitch whilst only increasing our debt in relatively small terms compared to other teams in the Premier League.
Andy, thanks- that’s a fair enough answer
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1 Posted 06/08/2008 at 22:19:59
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Look into my eyes, not round the eyes, look into my eyes
when you awake you will think Kirkby is a great idea, and you all love me
123 open your eyes.