The Mail Bag
Tesco to dig deep?
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I'm surprised this hasn't been raised already...
It is obvious that no Everton, means no Destination Kirkby. EFC are the 'enabler', so Tesco must be desperate for the EFC board to kick on and try and get the plans passed. But I doubt very much that we can afford to throw more money at a project which could very well come to nothing. Surely then, Tesco will be more than happy to pay for all the costs accrued on behalf of Everton???
Perhaps also, will we see Tesco trying to sweeten the deal even more for EFC, maybe by throwing in other incentives perhaps, not only to encourage the EFC board to fight on, but also to turn some of the 'No' voters opinions on the ground. Improved stadium quality and design anyone?!
If so, this isn't the end of things yet...
Lee Smith, Posted 08/08/2008 at 17:07:19
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There is a school of thought that Tesco would be quite happy to go it alone because all they ever really wanted was a new store - thats bollocks!! The only Tesco store that would be allowed without a stadium would be a smaller less significant one - Tesco have just been arguing via the planning process that a simple grocery store and some other shops plus a leisure facilty like say a Bingo Hall would not change the status of Kirkby from a failing shithole to a success, only DK and a high profile football stadium can truly do start the regeneration they and Knowsley want to see - thats what they?ve been arguing all along. I dont see how LCC or anyone else can match or come anywhere near what Tesco have to offer.
Good gracious me, if this were true every Tesco would have an ?average? stadium next to it. Imagine the planning conversation:
Planner 1:
Tesco want to build a large superstore in our town.
Planner 2:
Great, we really need more shops.
Planner 1:
Bugger, we?ll have to turn the plan down.
Planner 2:
Why?
Planner 1:
Every Tesco proposal has a Premier League Football stadium positioned right next to it.
Planner 2:
Curses, foiled again.
Judging by reports in the local media, Kirkby weren?t really that keen on Everton coming. I really think they?ll be happy with the extra shopping facilities.
Planner 1:
Tesco want to build a large superstore in our town.
Planner 2:
Great, we really need more shops.
Planner 1:
Bugger, we?ll have to turn the plan down.
Planner 2:
Why?
Planner 1:
Every Tesco proposal has a Premier League Football stadium positioned right next to it.
Planner 2:
Curses, foiled again.
Judging by reports in the local media, Kirkby weren?t really that keen on Everton coming. I really think they?ll be happy with the extra shopping facilities.
Paul,
Don,t know where you live but try not to get personal (Kirkby failing ****hole).
Just a few facts for you:
Highest rate of violent crime - Southport, Sefton Council.
Highest rate drugs - Bootle/Kirkdale - LCC!
Highest rate of crime reduction - Kirkby, Knowsley!
Stick to the subject matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don,t know where you live but try not to get personal (Kirkby failing ****hole).
Just a few facts for you:
Highest rate of violent crime - Southport, Sefton Council.
Highest rate drugs - Bootle/Kirkdale - LCC!
Highest rate of crime reduction - Kirkby, Knowsley!
Stick to the subject matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You never know, we might end up playing in Southport. A bit f football hooliganism will do wonders for their crime rate.
I did mention that in a thread before the decision came in. This is one of the great strengths of the project - all that is lost can be made up with money, and our retail partners have an awful lot of it.
Justification to their shareholders? £1 million a week projected profits from the project might do it.
The main worry - as has been widely reported - is that the project mightl have to be so reduced to get approval from the government that there will not be enough profit in it for the retail side.
Pound to a penny one or two of Bradley’s main suggested alternative sites is in South Liverpool. Its in the city!!!
Justification to their shareholders? £1 million a week projected profits from the project might do it.
The main worry - as has been widely reported - is that the project mightl have to be so reduced to get approval from the government that there will not be enough profit in it for the retail side.
Pound to a penny one or two of Bradley’s main suggested alternative sites is in South Liverpool. Its in the city!!!
Sorry, as a second class Evertonian, one who doesn’t hail from "Our City", what’s wrong with South Liverpool? Getting t-shirts printed up with KEIOC(North) might be a bit of a trial.
Let’s guess - you can’t walk there from your lodal, can you?
Let’s guess - you can’t walk there from your lodal, can you?
The problem for Everton is not the delay particularly, or even the inflationary effect of the delay - although they are big considerations.
what will decide things is the assessment of how likely a Public Inquiry will find favour in Tesco’s application.
if Everton chose to go along, they are locked in exclusively until it’s all over - maybe up to two years before a decision is announced. if at the end of that time, the decision goes against Tesco, and there is a fair chance it would, Everton find themselves two years on and completely wasted. No-one would buy a club in limbo.
The lawyers have to provide an exit strategy now.
Tesco’s dream was a massive £400m retail development that could deliver its shareholders revenue of around £1m a week and it needed the stadium in order to justify its size.
My guess is that they’ll feel they’ve given it a go but would accept Everton bowing out so they can execute a scaled-down regeneration project focused more on the immediate town centre that’s more likely to get the green light from Downing Street — their Plan B, if you will, made more likely by their purchase of much of the town centre’s retail properties from Development Securities earlier this year.
Well said Ralph. Why some contributers feel the need to be derogatory about any area,inside or outside of the City, defeats me.
Most areas with high population densities have social problems. Walton has problems and if Everton leave then those problems will be magnified.
However, perhaps now, local MP’s apart, all aspects and implications of any proposal can be looked at in detail.
Most areas with high population densities have social problems. Walton has problems and if Everton leave then those problems will be magnified.
However, perhaps now, local MP’s apart, all aspects and implications of any proposal can be looked at in detail.
I live nowhere near Liverpool Keith, but I lived half my life in Halewood so South Liverpool is great with me - great motorway connections, riverside location at Speke.
I was trying to be a bit playful with those who have faught to have our team located in the city, but many of whom have always regarded South Liverpool as also unacceptable. From past experience its about keeping the club within Walton for most of them.
I was trying to be a bit playful with those who have faught to have our team located in the city, but many of whom have always regarded South Liverpool as also unacceptable. From past experience its about keeping the club within Walton for most of them.
Since when did Tesco become Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? Tesco suddenly become great benefactors of regeneration my arse, they have a duty to their shareholders and sorry to piss on your chips but their only interest is profit margins, the supermarket being as large as possible and returning the largest percentage profit possible was all this project and any other Tesco project is about, as their other projects involving sports stadia have been using those partnerships to provide a leisure element to gain favour for planning permission to be passed. It would be naive in the extreme to believe Tesco only want to help Everton, if so explain why they helped St Helens RL or why they aren’t helping Everton as part of Project Jennifer where they will be building another store?
Graham - sorry I missed your irony (we should have a symbol for that) .
"Keep Everton In Walton" might have had a certain ring about it, but we would have run into too many kopshites for my liking.
Let’s see how the "Our City" people react if they’ve got to get off their arses and make it out to Speke. I believe the air links are quite good.
"Keep Everton In Walton" might have had a certain ring about it, but we would have run into too many kopshites for my liking.
Let’s see how the "Our City" people react if they’ve got to get off their arses and make it out to Speke. I believe the air links are quite good.
Gavin - I’m trying to follow this argument, and I’m sure you have things to say, but look back at your rectangle of text up there. Couldn’t you have just broken it into a paragraph or three to help your argument along?
We all get a bit angry when defending something we love - EFC in this case - but take a pause.
Paragraph.
And reflect.
Just a thought.
We all get a bit angry when defending something we love - EFC in this case - but take a pause.
Paragraph.
And reflect.
Just a thought.
Lee,
I think you’re being a little bit optimistic but who knows, it might happen. Until then though, Everton might need to look seriously at all options. I wouldn’t have thought the club could afford to spend up to two years in limbo land.
Graham/Keith, South Liverpool might be an option; so might North Liverpool, so might the centre of Liverpool, why do you appear to be so snooty about those who believe that Goodison, or the Loop represent EFC’s best chance of success. Personally, I’ll be happy if our beloved board now got derious and thoroughly investigated All options.
I think you’re being a little bit optimistic but who knows, it might happen. Until then though, Everton might need to look seriously at all options. I wouldn’t have thought the club could afford to spend up to two years in limbo land.
Graham/Keith, South Liverpool might be an option; so might North Liverpool, so might the centre of Liverpool, why do you appear to be so snooty about those who believe that Goodison, or the Loop represent EFC’s best chance of success. Personally, I’ll be happy if our beloved board now got derious and thoroughly investigated All options.
Oops, fumbling fingers! I’ll repeat the final sentence. "Personally, I’ll be happy if our beloved board now got serious and thoroughly investigated all options."
Dave, in the notorious words of a certain H. Enfield "Carm Down La."
Your posts are spot on. There’s none so blind who don’t want to see.
Your posts are spot on. There’s none so blind who don’t want to see.
The main problem will not be the additional costs during the public inquiry, but the obvious reductions of retail space that will follow the inquiry.
This will reduce the revenue the project was supposed to deliver for the enablers. The project won?t be viable... and it never was viable; Kirkby could never be allowed to have a retail project of this size, the town is simply nowhere near big enough.
This will reduce the revenue the project was supposed to deliver for the enablers. The project won?t be viable... and it never was viable; Kirkby could never be allowed to have a retail project of this size, the town is simply nowhere near big enough.
Perhaps Tesco will dream up some way for 50,000 supporters to get to and from the Stadium in a reasonable amount of time. Now that would be sweet but it should have been part of the original plan....not an afterthought.
Keith G,
Many apologies but as part of my work I’ve today driven for over 9 hours so have eyes like p holes in snow, it’s fortunate I’ve not posted lots of typo’s and mashed spelling mistakes.
AS requested, paragraphed for your delight. Even after so many hours staring at the wastelands which are Scottish and English A roads and motorways (Scottish at least having nicer scenery) I’m still addicted to read and post.
Enjoy
Many apologies but as part of my work I’ve today driven for over 9 hours so have eyes like p holes in snow, it’s fortunate I’ve not posted lots of typo’s and mashed spelling mistakes.
AS requested, paragraphed for your delight. Even after so many hours staring at the wastelands which are Scottish and English A roads and motorways (Scottish at least having nicer scenery) I’m still addicted to read and post.
Enjoy
Giazzad ... splendid idea. Let’s all show a bit of respect for fellow fans, shall we?
Starting with you.
Starting with you.
Dave Wilson
My grandad, a Birkenhead docker, explained to me in about 1955 that we were scousers. The people across the water were "whackers", because they drove donkeys. The Vernons Girls (You Know What I Mean 1962) will add weight to this testimony Refer to the Guinness Book of Hit Singles if you’ve got no idea what I’m talking about.
I will fuck off to wherever I wish, but not at the behest of some ignorant tool that obviously doesn’t know his history.
Keith Glazzard
(and look up Glazzard in the EFC records)
My grandad, a Birkenhead docker, explained to me in about 1955 that we were scousers. The people across the water were "whackers", because they drove donkeys. The Vernons Girls (You Know What I Mean 1962) will add weight to this testimony Refer to the Guinness Book of Hit Singles if you’ve got no idea what I’m talking about.
I will fuck off to wherever I wish, but not at the behest of some ignorant tool that obviously doesn’t know his history.
Keith Glazzard
(and look up Glazzard in the EFC records)
Gavin
Safely home, we live to fight - in the best possible sense - another day.
What do you think - 1-0 against Blackburn, Osman, ten to go? I wish!
Safely home, we live to fight - in the best possible sense - another day.
What do you think - 1-0 against Blackburn, Osman, ten to go? I wish!
Sorry Mike M - I don’t know what you mean by me being disrespectful to other posters. Can you clarify?
Keith Glazzard
Keith Glazzard
The great man himself would always remind people he was a whacker
Meself, I’m a born and bred Liverpool 8 man, (Toxteth, to us oldies, is the name on the signs in Park Lane and Lodge Lane)
We have a softer, more Irish-oriented accent than the guttural North End version
As a location, you couldn’t have got much further south than Kings Dock (sob). To me the City in KEIOC means close to the city centre
Speke is, certainly, in Liverpool but miles away from town
Meself, I’m a born and bred Liverpool 8 man, (Toxteth, to us oldies, is the name on the signs in Park Lane and Lodge Lane)
We have a softer, more Irish-oriented accent than the guttural North End version
As a location, you couldn’t have got much further south than Kings Dock (sob). To me the City in KEIOC means close to the city centre
Speke is, certainly, in Liverpool but miles away from town
Keith,
I hate to disabuse you of your memories but you’ve got it the wrong way round, or your grand dad has. It isn’t whackers, it’s wackers, from the old soup PeaWack, that was thwe birkenhead mob. Whereas us lot were called the proverbial "Scousers" from the "Lob scouse" or "Blind Scouse" we used to eat as a staple diet. Seee isn’t it nice to be nice to each other!
Phil, you southenders don’t have the Celtic heritage of us Northenders. We’ve got Irish, Welsh and Scottish blood. You’ve probably got a mix of a variety of wooly backs, like widnes and warrington. Gutteral.! Us! Now come on.
I hate to disabuse you of your memories but you’ve got it the wrong way round, or your grand dad has. It isn’t whackers, it’s wackers, from the old soup PeaWack, that was thwe birkenhead mob. Whereas us lot were called the proverbial "Scousers" from the "Lob scouse" or "Blind Scouse" we used to eat as a staple diet. Seee isn’t it nice to be nice to each other!
Phil, you southenders don’t have the Celtic heritage of us Northenders. We’ve got Irish, Welsh and Scottish blood. You’ve probably got a mix of a variety of wooly backs, like widnes and warrington. Gutteral.! Us! Now come on.
Ha Ha
Nice one Jim
I think Mr "Glazzardk" has a dodgy history book, or perhaps he has spent to much time at his "lodal"
how else can someone be so wrong, so many times, in so few posts
Sober this morning Keith ?
Nice one Jim
I think Mr "Glazzardk" has a dodgy history book, or perhaps he has spent to much time at his "lodal"
how else can someone be so wrong, so many times, in so few posts
Sober this morning Keith ?
As much as Terry Leahy is a fan Tesco is a business and they have shareholders, probably 99% of whom are not Evertonians! They can’t just throw money at the project beyond what would normally be reasonable.
As an avid participant on TOFFEEWEB I have read previous suggested sites for EC relocation which don’t work.
Taking it that we need a major benefactor and we are stuck with Tescos, taking into account proximity of other retail outlets does anyone have any viable locations for a retail/stadium?
Are we only to accept a site within the LCC boundary?
Any municipal golf courses LCC prepared to give up( and for the golfers I play too)?
Taking it that we need a major benefactor and we are stuck with Tescos, taking into account proximity of other retail outlets does anyone have any viable locations for a retail/stadium?
Are we only to accept a site within the LCC boundary?
Any municipal golf courses LCC prepared to give up( and for the golfers I play too)?
@Jim 8/8 21:46
It’s not optimism, I really really don’t want to go to Kirkby! It’s just how I see things possibly happening.
It’s not optimism, I really really don’t want to go to Kirkby! It’s just how I see things possibly happening.
Liverpool north , south, Birkenhead or wherever... Aren’t you all work shy moaners??
The Biggest travesty of all is that Everton Football club didnt relocate to the meccca that is North Wales...
Cymru am Byth...
The Biggest travesty of all is that Everton Football club didnt relocate to the meccca that is North Wales...
Cymru am Byth...
Michael, Lyndon
This Connie Francis (m/f) should be be baaaaaaad for that one
This Connie Francis (m/f) should be be baaaaaaad for that one
My all time Everton XI
Big Nev
Pat V d H
Kevin Rat
Barry Horne
Simon Davies
Mike Pejic
Gary Speed
John Oster
John Humphries
T G jones
Max Boyce
Pleidiol wyf I’m Gwlad...
Big Nev
Pat V d H
Kevin Rat
Barry Horne
Simon Davies
Mike Pejic
Gary Speed
John Oster
John Humphries
T G jones
Max Boyce
Pleidiol wyf I’m Gwlad...
Strange smell of lanolin on here this morning
BTW Jim, as a typical Southender (Welsh Dad, Irish Mam), people I work with darn sarf say I talk like McCartney and The Rat(!) and I only sound ’dead Scouse’ when I say things like ’work, group, book and fair’
One colleague said he needs subtitles for Gerrard and Rooney, another that Carragher sounded like ’a Klingon with catarrh trying to clear a large hairball from the back of his throat’
I tried to educate them that only 1 of them was a Scouse but they wouldn’t have it
BTW Jim, as a typical Southender (Welsh Dad, Irish Mam), people I work with darn sarf say I talk like McCartney and The Rat(!) and I only sound ’dead Scouse’ when I say things like ’work, group, book and fair’
One colleague said he needs subtitles for Gerrard and Rooney, another that Carragher sounded like ’a Klingon with catarrh trying to clear a large hairball from the back of his throat’
I tried to educate them that only 1 of them was a Scouse but they wouldn’t have it
Seriously, is it important where your parents came from? does it matter which specific area you grew up in? It’s this kind of parochial attitude that will kill the club.
Small minded people who are happy with a small club who only care about the postcode.
I’m lucky, I remember when Everton were the best club in Europe, what have kids of 10 & 11 got to look forward to now? We need to move forward, stop banging on about the past and start creating new history
Small minded people who are happy with a small club who only care about the postcode.
I’m lucky, I remember when Everton were the best club in Europe, what have kids of 10 & 11 got to look forward to now? We need to move forward, stop banging on about the past and start creating new history
Ian
Don’t be so daft (and disrespectful)
Why do you think...
inanimate objects are named after the likes of Joe Mercer and Alex Young?
Legends nights/meet the old players events are always sold out?
We have a Players’ Benevolent Fund?
People like David France exist?
Anyone called Dean is nicknamed Dixie?
It’s not being parochial and insular - it’s being part of the extended Everton family and its shared heritage; I presume you still talk about your grandparents etc and have family heirlooms that you treasure? Maybe not
Don’t be so daft (and disrespectful)
Why do you think...
inanimate objects are named after the likes of Joe Mercer and Alex Young?
Legends nights/meet the old players events are always sold out?
We have a Players’ Benevolent Fund?
People like David France exist?
Anyone called Dean is nicknamed Dixie?
It’s not being parochial and insular - it’s being part of the extended Everton family and its shared heritage; I presume you still talk about your grandparents etc and have family heirlooms that you treasure? Maybe not
My problem is that the extended Everton family isn’t all that extended. I went to my first game in 1977 but am from St Helens and there are people here who wouldn’t call me a real fan because Im from 10 miles up the road. Keith felt the need to justify himself as a ’second class Evertonian’ because he isnt from the city.
I wasnt refering to the history of the club, I was refering to the attitude of some fans.
I wasnt refering to the history of the club, I was refering to the attitude of some fans.
Sorry Ian, misunderstood you the first time
However, I’m totally wiith you on the fact that it doesn’t matter where you come from as long as you’re an Evertonian
I’ve met so many Blues from all over on my travels; I once read that the Everton support in N Wales, the Fylde Coast and the Peak District is a consquence of WWII, when youngsters (the majority naturally supporting the 1st Division’s top club) were evacuated from the city and educated the locals
I’m sure I’ve more in common with an Evertonian from Lytham than a kopite from Kirkdale
Cheers Blue!
However, I’m totally wiith you on the fact that it doesn’t matter where you come from as long as you’re an Evertonian
I’ve met so many Blues from all over on my travels; I once read that the Everton support in N Wales, the Fylde Coast and the Peak District is a consquence of WWII, when youngsters (the majority naturally supporting the 1st Division’s top club) were evacuated from the city and educated the locals
I’m sure I’ve more in common with an Evertonian from Lytham than a kopite from Kirkdale
Cheers Blue!
Hi Jim Lloyd
Sorry to have left it so long - its been a busy day- and I was interested in your comments about scouse / peawack and the like.
My grandad had hardly any education and wasn’t one for the history books, but he taught me a lot about local (and working class) history when he took us for walks around the docks and up Bidston Hill. To him, we were all scousers, and to test his word all these years later I have tried my best to find a reliable account of the origin of the word. No such thing, of course, exists. But -
Labscous (German/Dutch), Labscaus (Danish/ Norwegian) and Lobscouse (which isn’t blind scouse as there’s no meat in that) are all sailor’s terms for the stew my Gran made so well. I’d put my money on the Dutch (except when playing us) as so much seafaring vocab comes from them. The Danes, however, claim its a word which goes back to Viking times. Perhaps its from the Isle of Man. If you want to know how to make this fine dish, go to YouTube and search for lobscouse and there you will find a German chef instructing a Chinese French horn player how to do it - I kid thee not.
Peawack soup. All sources I can find relate this to Liverpool - Birkenhead doesn’t get a mention. The ingredients usually cited sound like the spare ribs and mushy peas my parents mates in Liverpool - sorry, Bootle - would always serve up towards the end of a do. I think they used to dream about things like that in Birkenhead in those days.
Last little one - mum grew up around the corner from William Ralph’s home, and dad, in Ellesmere Port went to school with Joe Mercer.
I know I’m no second class Evertonian.
Sorry to have left it so long - its been a busy day- and I was interested in your comments about scouse / peawack and the like.
My grandad had hardly any education and wasn’t one for the history books, but he taught me a lot about local (and working class) history when he took us for walks around the docks and up Bidston Hill. To him, we were all scousers, and to test his word all these years later I have tried my best to find a reliable account of the origin of the word. No such thing, of course, exists. But -
Labscous (German/Dutch), Labscaus (Danish/ Norwegian) and Lobscouse (which isn’t blind scouse as there’s no meat in that) are all sailor’s terms for the stew my Gran made so well. I’d put my money on the Dutch (except when playing us) as so much seafaring vocab comes from them. The Danes, however, claim its a word which goes back to Viking times. Perhaps its from the Isle of Man. If you want to know how to make this fine dish, go to YouTube and search for lobscouse and there you will find a German chef instructing a Chinese French horn player how to do it - I kid thee not.
Peawack soup. All sources I can find relate this to Liverpool - Birkenhead doesn’t get a mention. The ingredients usually cited sound like the spare ribs and mushy peas my parents mates in Liverpool - sorry, Bootle - would always serve up towards the end of a do. I think they used to dream about things like that in Birkenhead in those days.
Last little one - mum grew up around the corner from William Ralph’s home, and dad, in Ellesmere Port went to school with Joe Mercer.
I know I’m no second class Evertonian.
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1 Posted 08/08/2008 at 18:29:46
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