The Mail Bag
Quantity not Quality is what's required
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With likely only 10 (!) fit/available outfield players of ? Premier League experience? available for the likely remaining part of August (assuming Cahill, Hibbert, Van der Meyde injured, Vaughan banned and Vic sunning himself in China). Rodwell, Gosling, Jutkeiwicz and Baxter (only 16!) will need to move up a gear and quickly and Moyes states that he doesn?t like pressuring kids.
The only choice Moyes has is to quickly move from a strategy of trying to purchase quality players to one of just buying quantity. He has a week to find 2-3 players who at least can help fill the bench for the next 2-3 weeks as they get used to our system of playing. He then has try to get the Moutinho, Milito?s of this world in before the deadline ? but unfortunately for now we need the Alan Smith?s of this world.
Does anyone else feel that the team below is going to beat Blackburn, West Brom and Portsmouth in the first 3 games: Howard; Neville Yobo Lescott Valente; Pienaar Arteta Jagielka Baines; Osman; Yakubu.
Subs Turner, Rodwell, Gosling, Jutkiewicz, Baxter +1 +2
Mike Oates, Posted 08/08/2008 at 21:03:26
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Have you seen the team sheet then?
Most of that team you highlight got us to 5th place last season.
I’d take that team against any and all of the three teams you mention on any given day.
Most of that team you highlight got us to 5th place last season.
I’d take that team against any and all of the three teams you mention on any given day.
Play Valente.Move Bains to LM The Art inside or Bains to DM!!!
We can take anyone with are best 11. Sadly, 11 good men is not enough for a season.
We can take anyone with are best 11. Sadly, 11 good men is not enough for a season.
Has the ref reported Vaughan yet? Until he does, if he does, he’s not banned no?
Joe
I dont think , Neville , Jags have got enough experience to play centre midfield as well as Carsley did, and I dont believe Baines is a midfield player either but basically 2 out of 3 will have to play there.
Osman as a support to Yakubu doesnt cut it with me as well .
I dont think , Neville , Jags have got enough experience to play centre midfield as well as Carsley did, and I dont believe Baines is a midfield player either but basically 2 out of 3 will have to play there.
Osman as a support to Yakubu doesnt cut it with me as well .
Moyes needs to get a move on, but if that is the team we put out for the first few games then great. By the end of the window though, we will have at least had to have padded out the squad a bit! I think he will pull a couple of loans out of the bag too, like usual.
We went into last season with Neville and Carsley in midfield, Stubbs at the back, Osman on the wing and Anichebe and Johnson upfront. I’d say even with this weak team where stronger than we where than the team that started the first few games last year.
I don’t mind Rodwell playing two or three games at centre midfield until Mbia returns. Rodwell will suprise a few people, technically he’s already up to this level and physically he’s good. He’s definatly a better option than Neville and Jagielka there.
Quantity is not the way forward, we need quality and hopefully we’ll get it.
I don’t mind Rodwell playing two or three games at centre midfield until Mbia returns. Rodwell will suprise a few people, technically he’s already up to this level and physically he’s good. He’s definatly a better option than Neville and Jagielka there.
Quantity is not the way forward, we need quality and hopefully we’ll get it.
Can I go back fondly over the years when the Saviour of English football - young Mr Rooney - came back after summer left on his own about 26 pies overweight.
The team that took us into Europe last season is with the boss, getting into shape, and in some cases being nurtured through important surgery unknown to us 20 and 30 years ago. They are excellent players, and won’t let us down.
And if I can have my guess - not because DM doesn’t have billions to spend, but because he likes what he knows - I think we are going to see the lads coming through this season. An old head (Smith?) and bought in quality (Jaoa?) to meld it all together?
The team that took us into Europe last season is with the boss, getting into shape, and in some cases being nurtured through important surgery unknown to us 20 and 30 years ago. They are excellent players, and won’t let us down.
And if I can have my guess - not because DM doesn’t have billions to spend, but because he likes what he knows - I think we are going to see the lads coming through this season. An old head (Smith?) and bought in quality (Jaoa?) to meld it all together?
I have been trawling the internet since the window opened and I am as frustrated as anyone.
However I trust Moyes implicitly, he will sign the players we need and we are only short of Carsley from where we finished in fifth.
Regarding Moutinho, how many times have Chairman said players are not leaving only for them to move swiftly after.
There is also the possibility of a little Portugese group in the dressing room, Fernandes Moutinho and Valente! Just a thought.....
I am slowly getting fed up of speculation though, please Bill and Davie put us all out of our misery
However I trust Moyes implicitly, he will sign the players we need and we are only short of Carsley from where we finished in fifth.
Regarding Moutinho, how many times have Chairman said players are not leaving only for them to move swiftly after.
There is also the possibility of a little Portugese group in the dressing room, Fernandes Moutinho and Valente! Just a thought.....
I am slowly getting fed up of speculation though, please Bill and Davie put us all out of our misery
Dan, I think it’s quite clear that Moyes has been unable to get a move on! He has publicly stated we needed 5-6 players before AJ, (who wasn’t leaving this summer as well?), went to Fulham.
We are not going to get anywhere near the amount we need before deadline day, so the last two finishes of 6th and 5th have been wasted by the board banking on a stadium move to encourage investment.
Gareth, as for the EGM, I think it’s going to be bloody carnage anyway and rightly so!
We are not going to get anywhere near the amount we need before deadline day, so the last two finishes of 6th and 5th have been wasted by the board banking on a stadium move to encourage investment.
Gareth, as for the EGM, I think it’s going to be bloody carnage anyway and rightly so!
Perhaps the team naming part of this post would be best left untill after tomorrow as im sure the team that starts then will face Blackburn. I dont think Blackburn are as strong as last year, no Bentley, Santa Cruz is injured...
Nick Entwistle I have not heard anything to say JV has been suspended though unless he gets 90 minutes tomorrow I would say its 451.
Nick Entwistle I have not heard anything to say JV has been suspended though unless he gets 90 minutes tomorrow I would say its 451.
Sorry Connor - I missed you there, so keen was I to talk about the players and to get away from the Kirkby stuff.
Yes, the quality/quantity thing has got to be an issue for us. Smith, to me, would add to each tally, proven versatility and a PL mixer.And DM might make him into a super-Cars.
But from very little evidence, I think that the boss sees Jose Baxter as the next Big Thing. He clearly rates the lads he took on tour as possibles - but his late decision to take El Baxter seems to say ’keep away’ to suitors. I hope I’m right.
Yes, the quality/quantity thing has got to be an issue for us. Smith, to me, would add to each tally, proven versatility and a PL mixer.And DM might make him into a super-Cars.
But from very little evidence, I think that the boss sees Jose Baxter as the next Big Thing. He clearly rates the lads he took on tour as possibles - but his late decision to take El Baxter seems to say ’keep away’ to suitors. I hope I’m right.
We do need bodies asap but......if you are good enought then you are old enough as far as I am concerned.
I have to say, over the last few weeks i have, like the majority of Evertonians, become increasingly frustrated and depserate at the lack of transfer activity.
However, reading mike´s proposed starting 11 for the Blackburn game has actually given me some reassurance, even more so if Timmy is fit (I believe there is a small chance of him being fit for the start of the season, no?). With all the doom and gloom in recent times, I had actually forgotten that we do still have a very decent starting 11 and a solid spine to the team.
Although obviously this starting 11 cannot last the whole season, due to inevitable suspensions and injuries etc and whilst we do undoubtedly need to make some signings, I still feel that we are not in such a desperate situation that we need to pad the squad out with garbage.
However, reading mike´s proposed starting 11 for the Blackburn game has actually given me some reassurance, even more so if Timmy is fit (I believe there is a small chance of him being fit for the start of the season, no?). With all the doom and gloom in recent times, I had actually forgotten that we do still have a very decent starting 11 and a solid spine to the team.
Although obviously this starting 11 cannot last the whole season, due to inevitable suspensions and injuries etc and whilst we do undoubtedly need to make some signings, I still feel that we are not in such a desperate situation that we need to pad the squad out with garbage.
The other day, I read a post lamenting the fact that we missed out on the signing of Chris Eagles!! I mean for fuck´s sake, that is surely a joke.
If we can sign 3 or 4 above average quality players, I truly believe that we can consolidate on 5th place last season, if not mount a challenge to Liverpool or Arsenal.
Although I can understand the negativity to an extent, I think a little more positivity is needed because, with a little bit more quality, this team can really continue to go places.
My main concern is in goal. If Tim Howard is out I don?t have full confidence in JR or IT......
Sorry to the both of them but we have been let down too many times when our first choice keeper has been out... COYB..
Sorry to the both of them but we have been let down too many times when our first choice keeper has been out... COYB..
Found this made me laugh! Have a look..
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kS9NNQR3rO8
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kS9NNQR3rO8
You have clearly forgotten that we are the fifth best team in the country. Yes i do think we can beat Blackburn and Portsmouth at home. In fact, i think we can win our first two away games too. Top after four games? I would be disappointed if we were lower than fourth after four. Shoot me down, maybe i’m the crazy one.
At the end of the day quality is quantity, if you bring in three quality players who can walk straight into the first team then that will push the 3 previous first teamers on the bench ready to be brought in.
However what Mike is asking for is maybe 5 players that would get into the subs bench, so great we have more shite ready to come in. How will that improve us if anything it would make the overall quality and skill of the players worse and halter the progress Moyes has made so far.
It seems to me that every year Moyes has done exactly the opposite of quantity rather than quality because if he hadn’t we still wouldn’t of had the smallest squads in the league. Instead he has tried to improve the first team realising that it is a dominoe effect.
So really Moyes needs to keep up with his previous strategy and buy the likes of Moutinho and M’Bia who will directly improve the team, if they get serious injuries so be it, thats the risk with every player, but remember that they also will reasonably be here more than a year so still works out better than the shite who would clog us up for years to come, for the sake of those first few weeks where we would have to aclimatise these players!!!
However what Mike is asking for is maybe 5 players that would get into the subs bench, so great we have more shite ready to come in. How will that improve us if anything it would make the overall quality and skill of the players worse and halter the progress Moyes has made so far.
It seems to me that every year Moyes has done exactly the opposite of quantity rather than quality because if he hadn’t we still wouldn’t of had the smallest squads in the league. Instead he has tried to improve the first team realising that it is a dominoe effect.
So really Moyes needs to keep up with his previous strategy and buy the likes of Moutinho and M’Bia who will directly improve the team, if they get serious injuries so be it, thats the risk with every player, but remember that they also will reasonably be here more than a year so still works out better than the shite who would clog us up for years to come, for the sake of those first few weeks where we would have to aclimatise these players!!!
I’d guess that the team that starts against PSV will be an indication towards the starting 11 against Blackburn, and if we get another player(s) in in the meantime then they may be in contention for the games against West Brom and Portsmouth. We’ll see.
I dont think we will go down...but the dwindling numbers of decent players makes it an impossible dream to emulate last season. All our competitors have spent and now have stronger squads. Villa had a small squad but they have backed their manager and made some good signings..we have not just lost AJ as some people are saying..we’ve lost McFadden, Carsley and also the loan players we had..Even if Cahill is back from injury (which I doubt) he will not last 90 minutes as he is not match fit. I think most of you guys need to remove the blue tinted glasses and face up to the mess we are in with just days to go to the first game. As Ive said before, what is the point of just signing stopgap players for one seasons bench cover..if we are to improve we need to invest in players who will be the future of the club.
Trevor: It’s just not true that all our rivals are stronger
Take those first two home games: Blackburn have lost Bentley and Friedel, and they’ve been replaced by Danny Simpson and Paul Robinson. They’ve also replaced Mark Hughes by the unknown quantity of Paul Ince. Stronger?
Portsmouth have sold their best midfielder, and brought in Peter Crouch. In addition, their defence is aging (James 34, Campbell 38, Distin 30 and Hreidarsson 34) and you would expect to be in slow decline - certainly they won’t get any better. Stronger?
Villa are going to lose Barry (or have him unsettled significantly), who is their best player and vital to their system, and have also lost Mellberg. They have bought decent (though not great) players in Sidwell, Young and Shorey. The do however have a young team like us, with players likely to improve. Stronger? Marginally, but if they lose Barry then probably not.
Meanwhile, we have a very young squad, so you can reasonably expect out players to get better year on year (Phil Neville being the only player in decline). We’ve lost Carsley, who was a huge player for us, but he’s the only player that directly needs replacing. We need a striker to replace Johnson, though not necessarily one of the same type. Anything on top of that would make our first team stronger than last year.
Yes, there’s concern over squad numbers, but remember that last year we were actually unlucky with injuries, had to put up with the African Nations and also had to wait 2 months for Yakubu to fit into our ethic. We are one purchase from having a stronger first 11 than last year (assuming we improve on Carsley) and 3 from having a stronger squad.
Take those first two home games: Blackburn have lost Bentley and Friedel, and they’ve been replaced by Danny Simpson and Paul Robinson. They’ve also replaced Mark Hughes by the unknown quantity of Paul Ince. Stronger?
Portsmouth have sold their best midfielder, and brought in Peter Crouch. In addition, their defence is aging (James 34, Campbell 38, Distin 30 and Hreidarsson 34) and you would expect to be in slow decline - certainly they won’t get any better. Stronger?
Villa are going to lose Barry (or have him unsettled significantly), who is their best player and vital to their system, and have also lost Mellberg. They have bought decent (though not great) players in Sidwell, Young and Shorey. The do however have a young team like us, with players likely to improve. Stronger? Marginally, but if they lose Barry then probably not.
Meanwhile, we have a very young squad, so you can reasonably expect out players to get better year on year (Phil Neville being the only player in decline). We’ve lost Carsley, who was a huge player for us, but he’s the only player that directly needs replacing. We need a striker to replace Johnson, though not necessarily one of the same type. Anything on top of that would make our first team stronger than last year.
Yes, there’s concern over squad numbers, but remember that last year we were actually unlucky with injuries, had to put up with the African Nations and also had to wait 2 months for Yakubu to fit into our ethic. We are one purchase from having a stronger first 11 than last year (assuming we improve on Carsley) and 3 from having a stronger squad.
I certainly don’t think Rodwell would disgrace himself in the "Carsley role". If needed i’d be happy for him to play there. He looks composed beyond his years and was very good on the ball when i saw him at Forest.
Thank you all gentlemen for taking part - isnt it good that we’re talking again about the games and teams rather than Kirkby, Wyness and Kenwright.
Up the blues
Up the blues
I think that Rodwell is too young to be thrown in straight away.If you build up his match experience by bringing him on as a sub and increaseing it game by game then I think he could end up doing a good job there.
Alan Smith would be a good buy for the money we would be paying.He could play in mid or upfront, so would be good if we had injurys.
Alan Smith would be a good buy for the money we would be paying.He could play in mid or upfront, so would be good if we had injurys.
Our number 1 tagert this summer should have been Downing, & I’m dissapointed we haven’t gone after him. Stephen Reid would be a realistic replacement for Carsley & then a cheaky bid for Shaun Wright Philips. I think supporters are fond of exotic names but I think the Moyse tactic of loan deals with a view to permanent deals for imports is best.
I have a sneeky feeling Moyes is going with 4-1-4-1 system this season where he wants a lot more goals from midfield. I think senna would be a good signing (someone who can sit in front of the back 4 but can score from distance or a free kick). I have only seen Mountinho a few times but he is a very good link player with skill and glides around the pitch with the ball at ease for the full 90 minutes. I think Moyes wants to keep the ball more hence the formation i think he will use. just a thought!
I think that Cahill and Vaughan have a good chance of being available for the first game and that Rodwell can do a good job in defensive mid....if we don’t get quality signings sealed this week I flaming well hope I’m right!
COYB!
COYB!
Rodwell could improve the distribution of the team, he’s not as agressive or robust as Carsley but in terms of distribution, passing ability and composure he’s already ahead of Cars.
The more we keep the ball the less defending we’ll be exposed too. A midfield of Arteta, Osman, Rodwell and Pienaar are perfectly capable of maintaining possession and taking pressure of each other. Hoefully that we be good for us in the first few games until we get our man (Mbia, Alou Diarra, Cana) etc.
It’ll be very interesting to see how Rodwell performs against PSV, It’ll be a decent game for us to show us what he’s about. Personally as I’ve said he’ll surprise a few. He’s so elegant on the ball and with experience alongside him I think he’ll be fine.
Yes he’s a youngster but some youngsters need to be thrown in, he has the right physique and technically he’s already better than some of our previous defensive midfielders. Maybe his height will be useful to such a small midfield, he is about 6ft 2 after all.
Personally I think he’s ready, not ready to be our full time defensive midfielder but he’s ready to be a squad player and fill in when needed. We’ll see what happens today.
The more we keep the ball the less defending we’ll be exposed too. A midfield of Arteta, Osman, Rodwell and Pienaar are perfectly capable of maintaining possession and taking pressure of each other. Hoefully that we be good for us in the first few games until we get our man (Mbia, Alou Diarra, Cana) etc.
It’ll be very interesting to see how Rodwell performs against PSV, It’ll be a decent game for us to show us what he’s about. Personally as I’ve said he’ll surprise a few. He’s so elegant on the ball and with experience alongside him I think he’ll be fine.
Yes he’s a youngster but some youngsters need to be thrown in, he has the right physique and technically he’s already better than some of our previous defensive midfielders. Maybe his height will be useful to such a small midfield, he is about 6ft 2 after all.
Personally I think he’s ready, not ready to be our full time defensive midfielder but he’s ready to be a squad player and fill in when needed. We’ll see what happens today.
Ok, here goes!
If the club Everton (the team I have supported since I was 4, I am now 32 ) are going to actually win the Premier League and not finnish losers - 2nd, 3rd, 4th and fifth, we have to be on a level playing field with M, C, A and L.
The only reason Everton can maybe push
and push for 4th spot with limited quality
and hard cash is because......DAVID the GENIUS MOYES. He has a "no messing around" approach to his players - a similar style to Alex.
Take away Moyes and we would once again be jumping up and down with joy because..............wow! we have just avoided relegation aren't we clever... not!
So what do we do? Put hands together and pray for a billionaire to come knocking, explain who we are, how long we have been here, our huge fan base, connections with China, that we are a very hungry club and the fans only eat top cups for breakfast and motivate the new owner against the other billionaires in the Premier League and Europe!!!! Unless we find someone with the power that money can bring to the club,it hurts me to say, we will continue to be happy to finish 5th place.
Do we have players that would get into the top four teams .........Lescott, Arteta, Yobo, Howard.... I would like to say Cahill but he is never going to be fit enough to play every week for 90 mins, maybe Yakubu if he takes the game seriously.
So, if we want to win the Premier League we need to bring 10 players of top quality angthing else...... forget it!!!
I would play for Everton FC for nothing
and I would never join any other club (Rooney the traitor, how could you), I would be happy to see the fans faces as I scored 1...2...3...
If the club Everton (the team I have supported since I was 4, I am now 32 ) are going to actually win the Premier League and not finnish losers - 2nd, 3rd, 4th and fifth, we have to be on a level playing field with M, C, A and L.
The only reason Everton can maybe push
and push for 4th spot with limited quality
and hard cash is because......DAVID the GENIUS MOYES. He has a "no messing around" approach to his players - a similar style to Alex.
Take away Moyes and we would once again be jumping up and down with joy because..............wow! we have just avoided relegation aren't we clever... not!
So what do we do? Put hands together and pray for a billionaire to come knocking, explain who we are, how long we have been here, our huge fan base, connections with China, that we are a very hungry club and the fans only eat top cups for breakfast and motivate the new owner against the other billionaires in the Premier League and Europe!!!! Unless we find someone with the power that money can bring to the club,it hurts me to say, we will continue to be happy to finish 5th place.
Do we have players that would get into the top four teams .........Lescott, Arteta, Yobo, Howard.... I would like to say Cahill but he is never going to be fit enough to play every week for 90 mins, maybe Yakubu if he takes the game seriously.
So, if we want to win the Premier League we need to bring 10 players of top quality angthing else...... forget it!!!
I would play for Everton FC for nothing
and I would never join any other club (Rooney the traitor, how could you), I would be happy to see the fans faces as I scored 1...2...3...
Thats to me looks a very good starting 11.
It’s depth we lack, and a different option (i.e. Andy Johnson) from the bench.
It’s depth we lack, and a different option (i.e. Andy Johnson) from the bench.
The obvious problem with this team is centre mid, however i think Rodwell could surprise a few and do a very adequate job, however not for a full season, I think 5+ games on the trot in the prem and he will begin to feel the impact.
One thing I disagree with in this thread is Osman. I think Ossie behind the Yak in the hole is his perfect position. He doesnt have the pace fot the wings and cuts inside to often, and when in a flat 4 he lacks the physical aspect required. However he is nimble, gets into decent space and has a decent shot if he hits it hard enough.
I’m not too worried about the first couple of games, its the other 36 that we will suffer from our summer of total inaction.
We needed 5 players last season, I think we have made up some of that with Rodwell, Baxter and Gosling. However we have lost 5 this summer, so I think we need 7 players and 2 of those must be top-class team improvers (Cana/M’Bia/Moutinhoesque) while the other 5 must be good players to do a job when the injuries pile up or players simply become knackered.
I think we could have a good start to the season, for one reason other clubs may under-estimate us due to the summer no-action, however after 10 games plus Europe I fear for the us.
The real problm with this summer is the message it sends to Yak, Arteta, Lescott etc. I feel these are playerst that will stay at this club provide ambition is shown, I fear next summer may be worse, requiring to replace the core of this team never mind build on it.
One thing I disagree with in this thread is Osman. I think Ossie behind the Yak in the hole is his perfect position. He doesnt have the pace fot the wings and cuts inside to often, and when in a flat 4 he lacks the physical aspect required. However he is nimble, gets into decent space and has a decent shot if he hits it hard enough.
I’m not too worried about the first couple of games, its the other 36 that we will suffer from our summer of total inaction.
We needed 5 players last season, I think we have made up some of that with Rodwell, Baxter and Gosling. However we have lost 5 this summer, so I think we need 7 players and 2 of those must be top-class team improvers (Cana/M’Bia/Moutinhoesque) while the other 5 must be good players to do a job when the injuries pile up or players simply become knackered.
I think we could have a good start to the season, for one reason other clubs may under-estimate us due to the summer no-action, however after 10 games plus Europe I fear for the us.
The real problm with this summer is the message it sends to Yak, Arteta, Lescott etc. I feel these are playerst that will stay at this club provide ambition is shown, I fear next summer may be worse, requiring to replace the core of this team never mind build on it.
RE: Simon Skinner. Your article is saying that the other squads around us havent got stronger. THey might have lost players but at least they bought players in return unlike us. Also what about Tottenham, they are definately back around us after a crap year last season.
COYB-please buy a player or 10
COYB-please buy a player or 10
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1 Posted 08/08/2008 at 21:41:45
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