The Mail Bag
Stadium Virtues
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As time moves on, the so-called credit crunch kicks in, the economy starts to stall, and still throughout the world many people are starving and in poverty. Is it right that two football clubs from the same city with such great support both want to spend £100 Million plus on a two separate stadiums?
I say this as a life long Evertonian, and who would indeed find it a struggle to work on the above proposal, though surely it is not ethically, financially or morally correct for such vast expenditure from two clubs, where a shared option has been proven to work in European cities around the world.
When the clubs talk about so much work and effort in the community, encouraging youth and other such virtuous activities, if a tenth of the saving from building one stadium instead of two was filtered out to the community, think of the use this could be put to in sports facilities and community projects.
Apologies for bringing this up but surely now it may be worth considering?
Marc Oliphant, Posted 13/08/2008 at 20:54:23
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Profoundly humourous, Derek. In answer to your first question, Marc, in a word, no.
Well said Marc. I fully agree with your sentiments. Let?s hope the people responsible have some vision of what is best for both clubs as well as the community at large.
My first choice, emotionally, would be a long-term expansion of Goodison Park, starting with the Park End and a landmark hotel tower.
However, there is a tantalising possibility that a three-way share between LFC, EFC and an events organisation, if in or close to the city centre, could be the basis for a comprehensive development package that would mean no capital cost would have to be met by either club. If properly designed and managed, this would be a unique opportunity which would allow both clubs to compete financially with the biggest clubs in Europe, whereas neither of their present separate stadium plans seem to be either practical or affordable.
However, there is a tantalising possibility that a three-way share between LFC, EFC and an events organisation, if in or close to the city centre, could be the basis for a comprehensive development package that would mean no capital cost would have to be met by either club. If properly designed and managed, this would be a unique opportunity which would allow both clubs to compete financially with the biggest clubs in Europe, whereas neither of their present separate stadium plans seem to be either practical or affordable.
Thank god Keith Wyness has gone - How long would it take him to come up with outsourcing our "stadium requirements" to the lovable reds, now that Kirkby looks like a dead duck..
TBH - We would never get a level playing field in any shared stadium, and I for one am very pleased that the shite are dead against it..
TBH - We would never get a level playing field in any shared stadium, and I for one am very pleased that the shite are dead against it..
Seems to work well enough in Milan. It is certainly the preferred position of the city council.
But owing to the campaigns against change, we are likely to be stuck in an outdated and inconvertible stadium which will put off any likely investors.
Think small seems to be the preference of many.
But owing to the campaigns against change, we are likely to be stuck in an outdated and inconvertible stadium which will put off any likely investors.
Think small seems to be the preference of many.
It might have been feasible before the council granted them bastards planning permission. Now we would always be percieved as the poor lodger. So with all due respect, Marc, Please Fuck Off .
Their stadium will cost over £350M. Seeing as we would be struggling to raise £78M then I cannot see how we would even have the money for a groundshare.
I wonder what the vote would have been if it was Destination Kirby v Shared stadium in Stanley Park.
As a co-owner, yes; as a lodger, no. Given our finances, that isn’t going to hapen unless Trevor Skemton’s idea is a runner.
Knee jerk tribalists, it might be a fitting way to complete the circle!
Knee jerk tribalists, it might be a fitting way to complete the circle!
Its becoming increasingly obvious that the shite cant afford to go it alone
Our only deliverable option has proved to be . . .well er, undeliverable.
A shared stadium would almost guarentee the investment EFC are deperate for,
Whether we like it or not, the three way share Trevor speaks about is fast becoming a very real possibilty
Our only deliverable option has proved to be . . .well er, undeliverable.
A shared stadium would almost guarentee the investment EFC are deperate for,
Whether we like it or not, the three way share Trevor speaks about is fast becoming a very real possibilty
It should be considered total mismanagement of both clubs if the prospect of sharing a stadium is not fully investigated. The excuse, from both sets of supporters, that they’re not willing to sit in a seat that was occupied by one of the opposite set the previous week is absolute rubbish. For god’s sake - it could have been a member of your own family. The City of Liverpool has the opportunity to build the best stadium in Europe and the LCC should do the utmost to ensure this happens.
A landmark stadium would actually benefit four parties, Everton, Liverpool, the stadium operating company and the City of Liverpool. A tantalising prospect which through a combination of financing initiatives, high-end debenture sales, supporters trust investment and without doubt a major stadium naming rights deal could become a reality if the will was there. Location would be vital to accommodate additional enabling developments and close proximity to the transport infrastructure of the city centre would also be a prerequisite to service the needs of the hundreds of thousands of visitors a week that the site would attract at peak periods. Innovative design could be used to placate the fears of fans surrounding the potential loss their respective identities. The first hurdle would be to identify if such a site exists, any suggestions????
Mike Homfray (and others who think of Milan as example of ’good’ shared stadiums):
Milan are looking to build their own stadium as San Siro is getting very outdated and the co-owners have little or no intention in renovating it. Inter have recently hinted that they might seek their own stadium as well. Both clubs are convinced that they can earn much more money in a stadium they own theirselves. It is not a good example.
Other clubs that I know of that share stadiums (Bayern and 1860 Munich, Club and Cercle Bruges) have even bigger issues: Bayern totally owns the stadium as they bought out 1860 on the cheap when 1860 struggled financially. 1860 is a tennant at this stage and hardly makes any money from the state-of-the-art 66000 seater. Club Bruges is looking to build their own stadium as Cercle has no intention in redeveloping and expanding the existing stadium.
Now I think we are bigger clubs than 1860 and Cercle but we could see similar scenario’s here.
Milan are looking to build their own stadium as San Siro is getting very outdated and the co-owners have little or no intention in renovating it. Inter have recently hinted that they might seek their own stadium as well. Both clubs are convinced that they can earn much more money in a stadium they own theirselves. It is not a good example.
Other clubs that I know of that share stadiums (Bayern and 1860 Munich, Club and Cercle Bruges) have even bigger issues: Bayern totally owns the stadium as they bought out 1860 on the cheap when 1860 struggled financially. 1860 is a tennant at this stage and hardly makes any money from the state-of-the-art 66000 seater. Club Bruges is looking to build their own stadium as Cercle has no intention in redeveloping and expanding the existing stadium.
Now I think we are bigger clubs than 1860 and Cercle but we could see similar scenario’s here.
I think personally it would be a good idea.
Those bastards wouldn?t be there when I was (unless it was derby day of course), so what fukin difference would it make.
Just another example of the pig-headedness of Evertonians. No move out of Liverpool; no ground share - make no mistake our club is dying while everyone stands around arguing and squabbling like little girls...
We need to get things done, on and off the field - AND FUCKIN? SHARPISH TOO.........
Those bastards wouldn?t be there when I was (unless it was derby day of course), so what fukin difference would it make.
Just another example of the pig-headedness of Evertonians. No move out of Liverpool; no ground share - make no mistake our club is dying while everyone stands around arguing and squabbling like little girls...
We need to get things done, on and off the field - AND FUCKIN? SHARPISH TOO.........
It may make sense to the accountants, but it doesn’t make sense to their fans.
Someone mentioned Kirkby v Shared.
Here’s another we play at Anfield v Shared?
Someone mentioned Kirkby v Shared.
Here’s another we play at Anfield v Shared?
The LCC should speak to the AFL here in Australia. Several teams share stadiums here and, without knowing all the ins and outs of the setup, all seems to work well. I don’t know who owns the stadiums (one of which is the MCG) but there is very little press about stadium dissatisfaction from any of the clubs.
Here’s another one for you.
We spend 25 million turning Goodison into a 48000 seater stadium (Phase 1) and retain our identity and history.
We spend 25 million turning Goodison into a 48000 seater stadium (Phase 1) and retain our identity and history.
Nice thought Jay, but something’s not stacking up here
Bradley has made no secret of the fact that he would love a shared stadium, When BK comes back to him cap in hand, I think he’ll see his chance to settle an old score,
The yanks wont put their hands in their own pockets and lets face it, they dont give a toss about the kopites, they’ll build as cheaply as poss for a quick return.
I can see all alternatives disappearing until the whole of Merseyside is told, there is no plan B
Groundshare is coming
Bradley has made no secret of the fact that he would love a shared stadium, When BK comes back to him cap in hand, I think he’ll see his chance to settle an old score,
The yanks wont put their hands in their own pockets and lets face it, they dont give a toss about the kopites, they’ll build as cheaply as poss for a quick return.
I can see all alternatives disappearing until the whole of Merseyside is told, there is no plan B
Groundshare is coming
Erik,
Milan built the San Siro and Inter moved in later. I went there earlier in the summer and the whole concept of Italian football and tourism/commercial activity is a farce! The stadium is a joke to get to, the museum is tiny and is a nightmare to find. In fact if someone hadn’t walked out of a gate when we walked past we’d have missed it! To move to a new ground just wont happen.... there’s no way they could build 2 grounds of the size for less money!
Munich is in fact a very interesting point. Both are tenants in the Allianz arena. 1860 will play there when they are in the top flight as they cannot afford to pay the rent without big crowds. But the Allianz arena cost over ?1Bn euros with infrastructure, paid of course by the Bavarian government.
I hate the idea of sharing with that lot. It has nothing to do with them sitting in our seats. It is all about identity. We have Goodison, they have Anfield! Sharing a ground would remove this as Nationally it would be known as Liverpools ground, hence removing that little bit more of our identity.
I would also find it galling when we have tiny crowds in one week and them selling out. It would make us look a small club and god forbid it, but if we both went in for a player this could work against us as I really think they’re on a slippy slope down.
Milan built the San Siro and Inter moved in later. I went there earlier in the summer and the whole concept of Italian football and tourism/commercial activity is a farce! The stadium is a joke to get to, the museum is tiny and is a nightmare to find. In fact if someone hadn’t walked out of a gate when we walked past we’d have missed it! To move to a new ground just wont happen.... there’s no way they could build 2 grounds of the size for less money!
Munich is in fact a very interesting point. Both are tenants in the Allianz arena. 1860 will play there when they are in the top flight as they cannot afford to pay the rent without big crowds. But the Allianz arena cost over ?1Bn euros with infrastructure, paid of course by the Bavarian government.
I hate the idea of sharing with that lot. It has nothing to do with them sitting in our seats. It is all about identity. We have Goodison, they have Anfield! Sharing a ground would remove this as Nationally it would be known as Liverpools ground, hence removing that little bit more of our identity.
I would also find it galling when we have tiny crowds in one week and them selling out. It would make us look a small club and god forbid it, but if we both went in for a player this could work against us as I really think they’re on a slippy slope down.
Unless we spend money which we obviously don’t have to rebuild Goodison Park, I would rather share a ground than go to Kirkby.
I can certainly see potential financial windfalls in terms of major special grants and unified and substantial enabling packages etc to build a shared stadium. If it could be manipulated into a real freeby then it would have to be considered. However, I cannot see how we can really rationalise 2 identities into one stadium, and there have been times when all we have had was our history and identity..... it defines us, and our stadium has been a major part of that! Trevor has done some good work to allay those concerns, but not sure we can get beyond that fundamental issue unless it really is ground-breaking design. As mentioned previously the Milan clubs have long been considering new separate stadia. Juve and Torino have already took that step. Also, unfortunately their capacity needs and ours are much different...... which would lead to a half-empty stadium and potentially damaging direct comparisons. That said, I believe it would be better than out of town Kirkby, where history and identity are also lost/diluted with cheap design and nightmare transport thrown in.
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1 Posted 13/08/2008 at 22:29:08
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Second, where does the cost of building a stadium end up filtering to? People’s wages? With a credit crunch we’ll need work!
I want us to have a good stadium, and Liverpool to have a rubbish stadium how can this occur if we share?