The Mail Bag
Depressing stat of the day
Comments (15)
I have no idea how this stat relates to other prem teams of a similar calibre to ourselves but, since the start of the 2003-04 season to today (5 yrs), we have only won 4 (Yes FOUR) Premier League games in which we have conceded the opening goal! What makes this stat even more remarkable was that in Moyes first full season we achieved a successful comeback no less than SEVEN times!
Don't get me wrong, I think that Moyes has done a great job for Everton, but is it just me or is something fundamentley wrong that we cannot lift ourselves up after conceding goals. The last team we be beat in the league after conceding the first goal I think was Fulham 4-1 in the 06-07 season.
Gareth Price, Posted 16/08/2008 at 23:05:49
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The simple fact is, Moyes plays with too many defenders even at home... Look at yesterdays team: Valente, Yobo, Lescott, Neville, Jagielka, Baines and Rodwell ? all defensive players... Yakubu for the best part of the game was totally isolated and if I was him I would be completly fucking pissed off with the club. He scores from the only bit of service he had all day.
After a whole summer to put things right its disgraceful that we should have to put a team out that has no pattern, no shape and just simply no discipline to it... Jagielka in midfield?? After last season?? Just look at our bench? All kids with no experience whatsoever of senior football. It's not even as though they are 19 or 20, they are 16 for heavens sake and can't be expected to come on and make a difference in games like that. They should have been blooded in matches that had already nothing riding on them or against a weak opposition in the league cup...
We can blame Kenwright to much of an extent but Moyes must stand up and take his share of the blame. I cannot question Moyes ambition but does he not know that Everton are unlikey to be able to pay £18 million for a player? I have stated before we want Moutinho and the appeal of going after superstar players is great but we just dont have that type of money to make our wish into reality.
What we needed was a squad that was big enough with enough experience to get us through the first part of the season and see what happens on Kenwrights situation at the club. We should have made sure we signed 7 or 8 players and we should have started in June rather than keep saying that no other club is doing business, Im not worried about the others.
We have a load of kids who apart from Rodwell and even he is fooling people of his maturity with his size, lets not forget he is only 16, but we have a load of kids who are nowhere near developed for the high octane of the Premier League. Its a different kettle of fish doing it against Preston where nobody is running hardly than doing it against the big strong sides in the Premier League and Portsmouth ( our next home game) are another one like that.
Tony Part
You say,
"We should have made sure we signed 7 or 8 players and we should have started in June rather than keep saying that no other club is doing business"
Please name 7 or 8 players we could and should have signed and tell us how we would pay for them.
Understand, I am as pissed off as you are that we haven’t got a side to put out but if you read Moyes’ articles in the Times and the Guardian you’ll see that he didn’t have any money until "very recently", probably since DK went tits up, and AJ was sold. It’s testament to Moyes loyalty to the club and us fans that he didn’t just walk. Belive me, I’ll bet he’s more pissed off than we are !
Oh, and the remark that we should have "blooded " the likes of Rodwell in the League Cup....if he’s only 16 now,how old was he last season when the Carling Cup matches were played?
You say,
"We should have made sure we signed 7 or 8 players and we should have started in June rather than keep saying that no other club is doing business"
Please name 7 or 8 players we could and should have signed and tell us how we would pay for them.
Understand, I am as pissed off as you are that we haven’t got a side to put out but if you read Moyes’ articles in the Times and the Guardian you’ll see that he didn’t have any money until "very recently", probably since DK went tits up, and AJ was sold. It’s testament to Moyes loyalty to the club and us fans that he didn’t just walk. Belive me, I’ll bet he’s more pissed off than we are !
Oh, and the remark that we should have "blooded " the likes of Rodwell in the League Cup....if he’s only 16 now,how old was he last season when the Carling Cup matches were played?
How often (before Moyes) did we used to concede the first goal?! And how often in the last 5 seasons have we? I think if you take into account the number of times we had the chance to come from behind the percentages might be similar.
I think that might skew these sort of statistics a bit.
I think that might skew these sort of statistics a bit.
Tony Part is spot on. Everyone is blaming Kenwright for the Blackburn defeat. It is Moyes that picks the team and it is Moyes that decides the tactics. The tactics and the team were far too defensive for playing Blackburn at home. Many will point to the lack of signings and say that DM had no choice to pick that team, but DM has had the same group of players from last season. He has worked with them every day gearing up to the season, and they turn up yesterday and play like a bunch of strangers! What have they been doing on the training pitch??
Yobo and Lescott seem unable to speak to eachother during a game. Yobo in particular doesn’t seem to know what he is doing half the time! Jags is a far more acomplished centre back and communicates well with Lescott when they are in the defence. But he was playing centre midfield, a position where he has been tried and failed previously.
Ofcourse, BK and the board have a lot to answer for. However, I think that Blackburn at home was a winnable game and the reason we lost the game was down to team selection and tactics. DM has done wonders for us, and the club has progressed massively under his rein, but the blame lies with him on this one.
Yobo and Lescott seem unable to speak to eachother during a game. Yobo in particular doesn’t seem to know what he is doing half the time! Jags is a far more acomplished centre back and communicates well with Lescott when they are in the defence. But he was playing centre midfield, a position where he has been tried and failed previously.
Ofcourse, BK and the board have a lot to answer for. However, I think that Blackburn at home was a winnable game and the reason we lost the game was down to team selection and tactics. DM has done wonders for us, and the club has progressed massively under his rein, but the blame lies with him on this one.
The only statistic that matters is BK’s inability to generate any commercial income.
Spurs get 40 million we get 1 miilion a year.
Spurs buy Modric,Dos Santos,Bentley.
We buy ??????????? We let go Johnson, McFadden, Fernandes, Stubbs, Carsley, Wessels and anyone else I’ve forgotten.
Kenwright has to go.
Spurs get 40 million we get 1 miilion a year.
Spurs buy Modric,Dos Santos,Bentley.
We buy ??????????? We let go Johnson, McFadden, Fernandes, Stubbs, Carsley, Wessels and anyone else I’ve forgotten.
Kenwright has to go.
Well, commercial income isn’t helped by the entire absence of the club from the City centre.
Gerard Horton, what would you have done differently. That’s the best and most experienced team Moyes could have put out yesterday. That’s the team the majority of fans where predicting on numerous websites.
David Moyes has never worked with that team before. Jack Rodwell and Phil Jagielka have never been his preffered midfield partnership, Nuno Valente/Leighton Baines has never been left wingers and Leon Osman is rarely used as a second striker.
With these current bunch of players that was not a winnable game yesterday, alot of people underestimated Blackburn. There a solid, well drilled side who play some decent stuff. We where a side with injuries, players playing out of position, kids on the bench and no players signed.
Moyes and Kenwright are to blame for us not signing players I agree but yesterdays game we couldn’t have been set out in any other way. We where bound to lose, I knew we would lose.
David Moyes has never worked with that team before. Jack Rodwell and Phil Jagielka have never been his preffered midfield partnership, Nuno Valente/Leighton Baines has never been left wingers and Leon Osman is rarely used as a second striker.
With these current bunch of players that was not a winnable game yesterday, alot of people underestimated Blackburn. There a solid, well drilled side who play some decent stuff. We where a side with injuries, players playing out of position, kids on the bench and no players signed.
Moyes and Kenwright are to blame for us not signing players I agree but yesterdays game we couldn’t have been set out in any other way. We where bound to lose, I knew we would lose.
"The only statistic that matters is BK?s inability to generate any commercial income.
Spurs get 40 million we get 1 miilion a year."
Not true.
If Kenwright made a comment that inaccurate, would it count as a lie? Just asking.
"Spurs buy Modric,Dos Santos,Bentley.
We buy ??????????? We let go Johnson, McFadden, Fernandes, Stubbs, Carsley, Wessels and anyone else I?ve forgotten."
Spurs will also have shortly sold 3 out of 4 of the best striking quartet in the Premiership (or so we are told by the all knowing media
Look, it’s true Spurs make more money than us overall, though by nowhere near the levels you would have everyone believe. They are a London based club. How about telling everybody how we compare to clubs currently at a similar to us. Let’s say, Villa, who are in a slightly richer economic area than us and have one of those fabled new owners. They must be kicking our arses in commercial areas?
Spurs get 40 million we get 1 miilion a year."
Not true.
If Kenwright made a comment that inaccurate, would it count as a lie? Just asking.
"Spurs buy Modric,Dos Santos,Bentley.
We buy ??????????? We let go Johnson, McFadden, Fernandes, Stubbs, Carsley, Wessels and anyone else I?ve forgotten."
Spurs will also have shortly sold 3 out of 4 of the best striking quartet in the Premiership (or so we are told by the all knowing media
Look, it’s true Spurs make more money than us overall, though by nowhere near the levels you would have everyone believe. They are a London based club. How about telling everybody how we compare to clubs currently at a similar to us. Let’s say, Villa, who are in a slightly richer economic area than us and have one of those fabled new owners. They must be kicking our arses in commercial areas?
Connor, I dont know how you can say DM has never worked with that team before because each one of the players on show was with us last season. I accept that we had injuries and relied on our youngster’s, however I do not accept this as a ready made excuse for the first half performance yesterday.
You mention that Blackburn were a well drilled and solid side. My argument is that we should have been a well drilled and solid side. DM and the coaching staff have had all pre-season to gear up to this one game. I expected that every player would know their job inside out.
I dont agree that the game yesterday was unwinnable. Blackburn looked vulnerable when we managed to string some passing together, we just didnt test their defence (or Robinson!) enough. The team put out yesterday, in my opinion was far too defensive at home against Blackburn. Yet, despite this, we still managed to make stupid defensive mistakes.
I agree that the lack of signings and injuries impacted upon the team selection and that this wasnt DM ideal eleven. But then why was Johnson sold with no ready made replacement??
You ask what I would have done differently.. I would have played a more attacking line up, maybe - Howard, Gosling, Jags, Yobo, Lescott, Arteta, Neville, Osman, Baines, Jutkiewicz, Yakubu.
You mention that Blackburn were a well drilled and solid side. My argument is that we should have been a well drilled and solid side. DM and the coaching staff have had all pre-season to gear up to this one game. I expected that every player would know their job inside out.
I dont agree that the game yesterday was unwinnable. Blackburn looked vulnerable when we managed to string some passing together, we just didnt test their defence (or Robinson!) enough. The team put out yesterday, in my opinion was far too defensive at home against Blackburn. Yet, despite this, we still managed to make stupid defensive mistakes.
I agree that the lack of signings and injuries impacted upon the team selection and that this wasnt DM ideal eleven. But then why was Johnson sold with no ready made replacement??
You ask what I would have done differently.. I would have played a more attacking line up, maybe - Howard, Gosling, Jags, Yobo, Lescott, Arteta, Neville, Osman, Baines, Jutkiewicz, Yakubu.
Simon Skinner can you save the postulating and post your findings and figures?
Come on give us a comparative table for the also rans giving us
Average gates
Proportion of which are season tickets
Season ticket cost - a median will suffice
Average ticket prices
Off field activities
TV revenue
Commercial Revenue
Not just Aston Villa, let’s have everybody, should give you something to work on other than quickfire critiques of other postings.
Come on give us a comparative table for the also rans giving us
Average gates
Proportion of which are season tickets
Season ticket cost - a median will suffice
Average ticket prices
Off field activities
TV revenue
Commercial Revenue
Not just Aston Villa, let’s have everybody, should give you something to work on other than quickfire critiques of other postings.
"Not just Aston Villa, let?s have everybody, should give you something to work on other than quickfire critiques of other postings."
Actually, my posts AREN’T quickfire, because I actually but some effort in to research things.
For example, when I read that Spurs make £40m compared to Everton’s £1m, I went away, found the relevent accounts, compared the figures, saw they were incorrect (the Spurs figures included Merchandising, advertising and sponsorship, which were excluded from the Everton figures; not only this, the comparison is misleading because it is based only on income, and not expenses, which are much higher for Spurs than they are for Everton. Therefore, to state that Spurs "get" £39m more than Everton is just not true).
I am perfectly entitled to point out factual errors (or "lies" as they are called if Kenwright makes them), without doing any more work than that.
There is then the underlying issue that Kenwright’s running of the club is poor. That is opinion. However, the burden of proof is not on me, as it is yourself and Jay that are accusing Kenwright; it is therefore not unreasonable for me to ask if you have something concrete to put forward.
I do not need to produce anything, as I am not arguing that Kenwright is better than anyone else. I am asking you to produce genuine evidence that may convince me, and others, that what you say is true. To produce facts along with accusations (rather than just using the words "pot to piss in", "lies", "laughing stock" etc. with nothing in between) woukd inprove the level of debate, and should be expected as the norm, not the exception.
However, seeing as you asked so nicely, I’ll state a few things:
Kenwright is often accused of raising excessive debt. Everton’s debt is currently lower than Man City, West Ham, Newcastle and Villa. I chose those clubs because they are the ones who have attracted investment, which is apparently what we should aspire to, and are apparently run by far superior businessmen.
Everton’s turnover is slightly higher than Villa and West Ham, in spite of the other 2 having similar attendances and being in richer economic areas.
Aston Villa are one of 2 clubs in the Premier League that have chosen to receive no income from shirt sponsorship, as they could not organise an adequate deal. Everton are 7th, behind the Big 4, Spurs and Newcastle (who have one year left on the Northern Rock deal, which you doubt will be renewed).
How’s that for a start?
Actually, my posts AREN’T quickfire, because I actually but some effort in to research things.
For example, when I read that Spurs make £40m compared to Everton’s £1m, I went away, found the relevent accounts, compared the figures, saw they were incorrect (the Spurs figures included Merchandising, advertising and sponsorship, which were excluded from the Everton figures; not only this, the comparison is misleading because it is based only on income, and not expenses, which are much higher for Spurs than they are for Everton. Therefore, to state that Spurs "get" £39m more than Everton is just not true).
I am perfectly entitled to point out factual errors (or "lies" as they are called if Kenwright makes them), without doing any more work than that.
There is then the underlying issue that Kenwright’s running of the club is poor. That is opinion. However, the burden of proof is not on me, as it is yourself and Jay that are accusing Kenwright; it is therefore not unreasonable for me to ask if you have something concrete to put forward.
I do not need to produce anything, as I am not arguing that Kenwright is better than anyone else. I am asking you to produce genuine evidence that may convince me, and others, that what you say is true. To produce facts along with accusations (rather than just using the words "pot to piss in", "lies", "laughing stock" etc. with nothing in between) woukd inprove the level of debate, and should be expected as the norm, not the exception.
However, seeing as you asked so nicely, I’ll state a few things:
Kenwright is often accused of raising excessive debt. Everton’s debt is currently lower than Man City, West Ham, Newcastle and Villa. I chose those clubs because they are the ones who have attracted investment, which is apparently what we should aspire to, and are apparently run by far superior businessmen.
Everton’s turnover is slightly higher than Villa and West Ham, in spite of the other 2 having similar attendances and being in richer economic areas.
Aston Villa are one of 2 clubs in the Premier League that have chosen to receive no income from shirt sponsorship, as they could not organise an adequate deal. Everton are 7th, behind the Big 4, Spurs and Newcastle (who have one year left on the Northern Rock deal, which you doubt will be renewed).
How’s that for a start?
Gerard Horton,
That line up wouldn?t have faired much better nor is it realistic. Gosling?s natural position isn?t right back, Baines looked terrible on the left wing and Jutkiewicz has bad problems with his stamina. He can only last for 30 minutes in a pre-season game, in a fast paced Premier League game he?d last about 10 minutes.
Moyes has never played a competitive game with that team that played yesterday, he?s probably didn?t use Baines in midfield until Pienaar got injured last week. The likes of Arteta, Osman, Baines, Yakubu and Yobo didn?t come back until later on in Pre-season due to injury, fitness problems and the international duty.
The team was disjointed, we had players playing out of position and youngsters with inexperience. That team didn?t have enough invention to beat Blackburn and no team we put out would have in my opinion. We could have got a lucky draw but we where never going to win the game.
The team just wasn?t up to it, there was no system and I knew we where going to be beaten. Blackburn are a decent side and they bossed the game and especially the midfield.
That line up wouldn?t have faired much better nor is it realistic. Gosling?s natural position isn?t right back, Baines looked terrible on the left wing and Jutkiewicz has bad problems with his stamina. He can only last for 30 minutes in a pre-season game, in a fast paced Premier League game he?d last about 10 minutes.
Moyes has never played a competitive game with that team that played yesterday, he?s probably didn?t use Baines in midfield until Pienaar got injured last week. The likes of Arteta, Osman, Baines, Yakubu and Yobo didn?t come back until later on in Pre-season due to injury, fitness problems and the international duty.
The team was disjointed, we had players playing out of position and youngsters with inexperience. That team didn?t have enough invention to beat Blackburn and no team we put out would have in my opinion. We could have got a lucky draw but we where never going to win the game.
The team just wasn?t up to it, there was no system and I knew we where going to be beaten. Blackburn are a decent side and they bossed the game and especially the midfield.
Gosling has played right back on a number of occasions and has more experience than the other youngsters from playing first team football for Plymouth.
I am sure that Jutikewicz can last longer than 10mins that you give him credit for. My point in putting him in was to provide support to Yak who was left stranded up front. This job could also be done by Baxter.
This would allow Osman to move back into the midfield to complement the holding player and provide somebody who can pass the ball. You said yourself that the midfield was non-existent, maybe because the centre was made up of an inexperienced holding player and a centre back!
You can either go into games thinking that no system could ever possibly defeat such a decent side as Blackburn, or you can go out with positive tactics and go for the win.
I am sure that Jutikewicz can last longer than 10mins that you give him credit for. My point in putting him in was to provide support to Yak who was left stranded up front. This job could also be done by Baxter.
This would allow Osman to move back into the midfield to complement the holding player and provide somebody who can pass the ball. You said yourself that the midfield was non-existent, maybe because the centre was made up of an inexperienced holding player and a centre back!
You can either go into games thinking that no system could ever possibly defeat such a decent side as Blackburn, or you can go out with positive tactics and go for the win.
Referring to the original letter about conceeding first, even against Blackburn on Saturday when we managed to turn around a 1-goal deficit we still somehow mange to hand the points back to them. It seems we just don,t have the craft to break a side down at home when they get their noses in front but what worries me more is the amount of very late goals we concede at home. It's been going on for over a year now when we have been turning leads (eg Man Utd 2007; 2-0 up to 4-2 down) into defeats or draws.
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1 Posted 17/08/2008 at 09:29:20
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I think a bag of frozen peas would beat EFC at the moment