I think that's a periodic fave down the pub, init, Brian? It is admittedly usually saved up for the very worst moments to get the biggest bang for the buck (so to speak)... which is where we are I guess, so hardly unexpected I would say. Cashflow in a big business can always be a challenge, and varies throughout the year, so I don't think this is as world-shattering as you might think, to be honest.

...and the sale of Johnson was to pay off Kieth Wyness ?????????

Michael, I hope to God you?re right but it would certainly explain firstly the "no movement" in the transfer market and secondly the weird and wonderful statements coming form David Moyes.

The info DID come from the same source withing the club and without giving too much away, someone who would have dealings day to day on the money side of things.

How the fuck have we come to this?

It may be true but if I had a fiver for every poster on here who has vouched for "inside information" that proved to be crap then I would be rich enough to buy the club and put an end to all our misery.

Am I missing something here or are you implying you were surprised at the "call in"?? I think we all suspected this several weeks ago!!! The rumours about the club were reaching absolutely ludicrous proportions on Saturday..... and they are all from "reliable"... nod nod... wink wink "sources within the club". I fecking despair!!

I’ve figured out why the club is bankrupt - they have about 200 people working for them who spend their entire day passing on rumours to people.

Your story doesn’t add up. Why January? What happened in January to change either the estimates of future income or future expenses? The club sold a player for £5m that month, so they actually had MORE cash than they previously expected. About 95% of the clubs income for the season was guaranteed at that point (being Sky TV money, season tickets, sponsorship and outsourced areas), so there was no uncertainty on income.

The club has a secured overdraft facilitiy, which is utilised to various levels throughout the year (peaking in April/May, before next season’s season ticket money comes in, and probably at it’s lowest in Sep/Oct, i.e. whenever the Sky TV money comes in). January, being only a few months after the Sky money, would be one of the lower months for overdraft utilisation, so why the sudden need for more credit?

So it doesn’t really make sense.

And we wrapped up the Pienaar deal just 3 months after this? No thanks, this rumour is not for me. Next.

Why, if we were going to struggle to pay wages, would we offer longer contracts and presumably higher wages to Cahill, Arteta, Johnson, Osman, Lescott, Hibbert and Yobo, half way through the season?? Doesn?t make much sense does it? And as far as predicting a ?call-in?, not a difficult one that was it? I notice you never predicted Wyness leaving when half of Merseyside knew about it (except Ian Ross)... You're telling porkies!!!

Just read a article by Moyes saying that there always has been money available but have been let down more than 7 times by the people who brocker the deals. Is this down to Everton representatives cocking this up or is it the players agents??

Firstly I?m not telling "porkies".....

I?m telling you what was told TO me by the person who ACTUALLY dealt with the bank/s.

But if you?re happy enough to keep your heads up your arses and kid on that all?s well at the club, the do so.

Just don't call me a liar when I?m talking about the club I reckon I?ve spent more than several thousand pounds on over the years, and supported all my life.

As Micheal has already said; this is far from earth shattering. Most businesses at sometime have to go cap in hand to the bank seeking to stretch their overdraft limit to match wages during lean times.

What would be earth shattering would be if the bank had refused.

Notwithstanding the club does seem to be in crises and the truth of what is happening and what will happen in the forthcoming two weeks will probably take twenty years to filter out,

Arthur, the reason the club extend players’ contracts is all to do with amortisation. (Hope I spelt that right!) The value of a player starts to be written down or reduced according to the length of the contract. To put it simply, if we signed a player for £100 on a 5 year contract, his value would diminish by £20 a year. If we sign him for a 10 year contract, his value would only diminish by £10 a year. Using these simple examples, after year one, the player with the 5 year contract would be worth £80 whereas the player with a 10 year contract would be worth £90 and so would represent a higher value in the books. At the end of the day it’s nothing to do with the commitment of the player,but all to do with presenting a healthier balance sheet. Hope you understand but it’s a hard one to explain as are most paper exercises. It’s all to do with presenting a greater net value of players in the accounts. Let’s face it, EFC don’t have any other unencumbered assets.

Get off your high horse Brian, if I?m not mistaken you said that DK would get called in, within 48 hours, nearly a month ago??? So that makes you knowledgable as who? The fat fella in the Black horse who?s been shouting it for weeks, by the way this fella is saying Moyes is leaving for Celtic every season since he joined.

Firstly John Lloyd let me correct you. I NEVER said DK would be called in in 48 hours. You’re getting mixed up with another poster, who posted around the time I did that said it would be given the go ahead within 48 hours (at the time of writing).

Secondly I’m not on ANY high horse. It gives me no pleasure to see the state we’re in, exactly the opposite. I’m simply passing on what was told to me "firsthand". Don’t take your frustrations out on me by resorting to insults and profanity, I’ve done nothing to you.

It’s not about being knowledgeable, knowing someone who works at the club makes me no better than the next bloke. Being able to discuss/argue without resorting to insults however makes me better then you as you don’t seem able to manage it.

Brian
just to give you a bit of support you did tell us it was known that it would be called in in a matter of weeks and some smartass called Marc something or other contradicted you and said we would be giving a press conference within 48 hours to confirm the go ahead.

In addition your comment about January makes sense to me.

Why else would we sell McFadden and not replace him knowing the MF injuries we had at the time.

Re the comment about Pienaar we actually waited until he was about to go somewhere else before we signed him for 2 million.

I dont think any of what you say surprises us but for what its worth I personally find it worthwhile.

So keep posting Brian.

I have no idea how good your sources are, Brian, but it does appear that everything you say about the club going down the tubes (I know you didn?t quite use these words but that is the logical conclusion from what you write) COULD BE true.

There might be several other explanations for this situation but so frequent and deep are the lies that have been told to our support that NO RUMOUR IS BEYOND BELIEF ON SOME LEVEL !

Think about it - that would explain the fact that Moyes almost called his chairman a liar when he referred to the club?s position. I wonder if Moyes is setting up a situation where he can ?fall on his own sword? because he has ?let his present squad down? by failing in the transfer market so far. There again... where would he go ?

Certainly we might not be one of the best clubs in the Premier these days but we surely are the most interesting.

Brian,

I?m not sure why you?ve been given some stick and I think Michael Kenrick is being disconcertingly blase. I can?t see that you would just wish to post on here to make yourself a figure to be talked about. If you?re wrong, the event that you have relayed, will not occur. Time then for us all to give you some stick.

For myself, what you?ve written confirms what I fear. There is something drastically wrong with EFC. I don?t see any reason to castigate you, until and if, what you?ve writen, turns out not to be correct.

Ann

Extending a players contract barely improves the balance sheet. The players value on the balance sheet is related to the original transfer fees.

Therefore, Cahill’s value is £1.5m, pro rated down by how far along his contract he was. Arteta was £2m pro rated.

Between them, amortisation was less than £1m a year before their new contracts.

What you are suggesting is that the only reason we gave these 2 a pay raise of £1m a year (estimated) EACH, was to reduce the amortisation by less than £0.5m? The balance sheet is actually WEAKER as a result, not stronger.

Cliff notes: didn’t happen.

"Firstly I?m not telling "porkies".....

I?m telling you what was told TO me by the person who ACTUALLY dealt with the bank/s."

I genuinely hope that you are making it up, Brian, otherwise you’ve just said exactly who told you. There are varying rumours about whether anyone from Everton read these sites, but if they do, and you are telling the truth, someone could be in a lot of trouble.

I was wondering if our bench yesterday had set some sort of record; think about it; Turner, 3 senior appearances; Baxter, Wallace, Jutkiewicz, Agard, Gosling and Kissock not a single appearance between them. We will get a pretty clear idea over the transfer deadline of whether or not we are the new Leeds...

If we acquire no new players, we can start to be very worried as this will surely prove we are skint. I was told from a very reliable source at the start of the Summer that Moyes had said he had no money whatsoever and would have to sell first. Let's therefore assume then that he, at least has the AJ money. I reckon we need at least one decent forward and midfield player. For what it's worth I reckon Ben Watson at Palace could be a good signing.

Anyway, with only the seemingly perennially injured Cahill and Vaughan, plus Pienaar and Anichebe to come back, I'm very worried.

It appears that we are in deep trouble due in a large part to DK being stalled.

Without apportioning blame, there was always the very real danger that if it got called in, that we would struggle with further investment.

The transfer monies that materialised at the very end of last summer?s window may have appeared on the proviso that the club was moving to Kirkby by the 2010 season...

I fear there is a very real link between us being stalled in the ground move and being stalled in the transfer market.

Of course, I am hoping and praying that I am wrong...

Simon Skinner: I wish I was making it up coz our situation breaks my bloody heart. I started taking my two young sons last season and felt really really good about life in general (Everton can do that to you)... and yes I have given it away but you know what!

I?m glad it?s out because something drastic needs to be done.

How can people take so many shite reasons for not spending the money we?ve supposedly got FFS!!!

Can anyone honestly believe we wouldn?t have got players in if we HAD money. There?s one reason and one reason only why there?s been no signings.....

Brian, there is a similar rumour that one of the two mortgages revealed a few weeks ago was taken out on one of the club-owned houses at Bellefield for the same purpose ? to pay the wages. Frankly I?ve heard so many rumours this summer my head?s spinning but the longer the current situation continues at Everton (no signings, no Moyes contract), the more the situation starts to speak for itself.

Brian

Firstly let me add my support to the truth of what you’ve said in the past, John Lloyd is confusing your aticle with somebody elses.
At no time did you put a date on when the club would "come clean" although in the face of some fierce stick, you stood your ground and insisted they knew all along.
I believe the departure of Wyness backed up what you said and as of yet, you have not been wrong

I have no doubts that your current article is every much as genuine as your last, However, there is a lot of truth in what Michael says about cash flow problems within even the biggest companies.
I believe what you say, but I believe EFC was being run on a hand to mouth basis for a lot longer than 6-7 months.

We ARE in terminal decline, the majority of posts - and talk in the alehouses, since Saturdays match would suggest the entire fan base suspects this, thats why we are all screaming for investment

Lets hope it comes sooner rather than later

ps Thanks for your efforts

Brian,

From one Brian to another, can I be perfectly Frank????

Balls mate, all balls. Your source (or shall we call him that voice in your head??) obviously either doesn’t work for the club or does work for the club and likes winding you up.

That could simply just been a cash flow issue. With space in between the money coming in for TV rights/sponsorship and money going out.

Please god

Brian

Thanks for the info yes indeed you were correct well if you believe some sort off.

I feel though there is alot more that has either been left out to scare us. If that is not the case maybe your source (if indeed is the person who spoke to the bank) could elaborate further the financial goings on at everton??? Just a thought!!

In any casse what are you trying to achieve with your scaremongering? Better yet what is your source trying to achieve by letting you spread the good word? Or does he or she know you are doing it?

JS Addy, you?re wrong, you?re as wrong on here as you are with your erroneous postings on the keioc site. Your attempt to link the lack of transfer activity with the proposed move to Kirkby is ludicrous. The money that materialised late last August had nothing whatsoever to do with Kirkby or any of the directors of Everton football club, it was a result of a Barclays mortgage taken out in that month against all the sky money and merit payments for the forthcoming season, nothing to do with Kirkby, nothing to do with Robert Earl, nothing to do with Philip Green and everything to do with a lack of investment in the club. Expect something similar any day now.

I can prove my contention by producing a copy of the aforementioned mortgage; can you prove yours about mysterious additional investment linked to Destination Kirkby? Can you put a name to any of these alleged Russian, Indian, American and Dutch investors? No, you can?t and nobody else can, as they don?t exist. Strange how other clubs have interest from named parties, we have generics. If you want to know why they don?t exist I suggest you read the planning application for Kirkby.

We?re not in deep trouble due in any part, large or small, to Destination Kirkby being stalled, we?re in deep trouble due to lack of tangible investment and wasting years on an undeliverable relocation plan which is and always was fundamentally flawed.

The club is run like a theatre production, all smoke and mirrors. Yes we?ll get our record transfer, so the chairman can boast once again that we?ve broken our record to show commitment to the manager, and a collection of bargain basement and loan signings but the fundamental problems remain and will only be addressed when a real investor or investors are allowed to move forward.

Ann Addlington?. you?re right about the amortization, last year this accountancy practice relating to goodwill and intangible assets cost £10.5M, extending several contacts does indeed lessen the impact, it will probably pay for the substantial legal bill with the lawyers over our involvement with Kirkby???? a case of every little helps I think. Another reason is the value in a selling negotiation is strengthened when a player has a long contract as opposed to a shorter contract; a nice piece of business with Andy Johnson.

Michael?s blasé commentary is well founded, there are lots of rumours doing the rounds and there always will be when we?ve lost seven players this year and replaced none, whilst the manager is yet to sign his contract, whilst we take out small mortgages with private Scottish banks, whilst the CEO walks out a few days before a momentous decision was due to be revealed, whilst stories surrounding Philip Green involvement and influence over management decisions continue in the press, whilst club borrowings remain at record levels and that warnings over ill informed decisions on a possible relocation move appear to be well founded.

There?s an old stage adage, funny enough, concerning audiences which states ?always leave them wanting more?, well I left Goodison on Saturday wanting a lot more for the investment I have made in the club this season.

McFadden was sold because he was rubbish and getting paid a lot of money for being rubbish, simple as.

Not exactly pulling up trees at Birmingham is he?

Brian - please be wrong!

I?m always sceptical even when people claim that their information comes from a source within the club. The reality is that in most large organisations only a very small number of people know the full story of what is going on. I am sure there are very many people who work for Everton FC who are as much in the dark as the average fan in the street. So when they don?t know what is happening, they do what most of us would do ? they seize upon any titbit of information & use that as evidence to support their particular view of the state of the club.

Brian, not once did I insult you in my post, it was the rumours & conjecture which you and others post that I insulted.........but even if I did stop being so sensitive your a grown man?? I will apologise about the 48hr thing, I obviously got you confused as you were quite vocal about it at the time but what I was getting at was the rumours and people in the know posting on here about these shocking revelations.
First off if you do know something and you want to post it, give us the details and exactly what you know.
If you cant do that cos your breaking someones trust then what the fuck are you on here for in the first place, surely if this person you know finds out your posting what he is telling you on here, he’d be thrilled!!

Colin Fitzgerald: Thank you for your clear and sensible (and I believe CORRECT) summary of the situtaion. Not as gossip worthy as conspiract theories etc but very plausible. Do you not believe it is correct though that the substantial Barclays loan taken out around one year ago (apparently financing the Yakubu move etc) was secured due to Robert Earl acting as guarantor? Do you believe it is lack of similar backing from Earl (or Philip Green) that is relevant to potential problems landing key targets e.g. Moutinho to date?
Lastly, I note that Sir Phillip Carter has just rejoined the board of Directors. What significance, if any, do you read into this?
Apologies for all the questions, but you seem to have a lot of answers founded in truth rather than unfounded speculation!
Cheers...Up the blues!

Its quite worrying for me (if what brian says is true) that someone that high up in the Goodison backroom would just spout out that sort of sensitive information to a fan? Considering how hush hush everything seems to be at Everton I just can’t see someone of any clout giving that sort of info out to any tom dick n arry!

Brian. I’m not calling you a liar, who knows what truth there is in any rumour, but you can see why it would seem a little odd and hard to believe

And one other thing, knowlegeable people can actually predict an outcome of things. We all knew that DK was coming to a head one way or another. Two people on TW forum were predicting with inside info. One said it would be called in and one claimed to know it would get the go ahead! You’ve a 50% chance of being right and then all of a sudden anything you say can hold some weight in the future.

A mate of mine said to me only on Friday that we were getting Ljungberg. I said never. Today were linked with him. he’s admitted to me today that he had no idea and he was winding me up. He obviously thought to himself, we’re skint and short in midfield and he’s available and decided to have a punt!

my auntie jean works in catering in Goodison.

She’s not told me anything, just thought it was worth a mention.

Colin Fitzpatrick:

"Ann Addlington?. you?re right about the amortization, last year this accountancy practice relating to goodwill and intangible assets cost £10.5M, extending several contacts does indeed lessen the impact, it will probably pay for the substantial legal bill with the lawyers over our involvement with Kirkby???? a case of every little helps I think."

As I said, I won’t help at all because the (slight) benefit of the amortisation decrease is offset by the larger increase to the wage bill. Therefore, the balance sheet is WEAKER.

Secondly, decreasing amortisation certainly won’t "pay" for anything, as it’s purely an acounting entry. Amortisation has nothing whatsoever to do with cash - it just looks better or worse on the balance sheet. However, increasing wages means more cash out the door.

Therefore saying that either (a) the new contracts improved the balance sheet or (b)the new contracts somehow allowed us to pay a bill we wouldn’t otherwise have paid is just completely untrue.

Simon, I was being facetious about the legal bill, the balance sheet will look better with the smaller amortization figures there?s simply no argument over that. The wages bill hits the P&L not the balance sheet so at the end of the day the balance sheet looks better; you?re simply polishing a turd here, nobody is saying it will somehow right the mess the club is in financially hence the reference to every little helps. What is needed is a massive cash injection in the form of an additional investor, this is not Robert Earl, or the current owner (?) must sell to someone who has ready access to sufficient funds to bring about change. At the moment Everton are living hand to mouth, commercially the club isn?t providing sufficient revenue to service its needs, hence the policy of asset utilization that includes player disposal, another form of asset. Like any other supporter I should be simply concerned about what happens on the pitch but it?s always been said that what occurs off the pitch affects on the pitch and now we are unfortunately beginning to reap what has been sown, much to my disappointment. It?s easy to blame someone like Keith Wyness for our predicament but in reality given the circumstance of absolutely no outside investment what other strategy could he employ? It will be interesting to hear what the chairman has to say at the forthcoming EGM, will it be another attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the assembled shareholders or our we going to get some honesty for a change? Let’s hope the banks are a little more understanding than last time.

Hello Michael, I personally don?t believe Robert Earl was significantly involved, I maybe wrong however but I haven?t seen anything from him whatsoever; at last years AGM he told the assembled shareholders that he had invested in Everton, apart from the fact that the Mail on Sunday reports that Philip Green purchased Paul Gregg?s shares I?m not exactly certain what he does, there doesn?t appear to be any money invested in the club; if you listened to what Bill said at the AGM all the directors were asked to act as guarantors, it just goes to show how comfortable the bank are with the state of the business if on top of the legal charge they wanted PG?s. Sir Philip? No idea, past experience maybe? I suppose all will be revealed.

Colin
thank you for a clear and factual analysis of the situation.

I have long banged the drum of criticising this board and BK in particular for "Fiddling while Rome burns" as they were happy to bask in the success on the pitch without putting proper plans and procedures in place for the non-playing operations.

Hence we have amongst the lowest commercial income of any prem club and since Kenwright took over we have made operating losses in all but the season we got the Rooney money.

What we are now seeing is the consequences of having no money,no commercial acumen and mortgaging/selling off all of our assets to give us a crippling interest bill.

It is interesting to note we have reengaged Sir Phil Carter,an ex Merchant Banker,who I hope he doesnt mind me saying, is getting on quite a bit now but still carries enormous respect in financial circles and amongst shareholders.

Could he be the cannon fodder that "Black Bill" puts in to field the EGM Q & A.

"Simon, I was being facetious about the legal bill, the balance sheet will look better with the smaller amortization figures there?s simply no argument over that. The wages bill hits the P&L not the balance sheet so at the end of the day the balance sheet looks better"

Sorry, but anything that hits the P&L hits the balance sheet. Double entry and everything. You pay the wages with cash, you have less cash if you increase the wages. Hence, if you increase the wages by more than you decrease the amortisation, the balance sheet is worse.

As you say, there’s simply no argument over that.

For those who don’t care about accounting technique (hopefully nearly everyone): Everton did not give new contracts to make their financial situation look better, as claimed earlier.

Cheers Colin. It seems a bit of a ’chicken and egg’ scenario is at the crux of the current likely financial quandry i.e. we need to break into the CL group stages through league position to access the revenue, but need the revenue to buy the likes of Moutinho to take us there. Here’s hoping the club’s wage structure and small squad, plus the revenue generated from sales of AJ and Faddy allied to high TV and league place revenue means we do suceed in getting the desired additions in place pre-1st September.
Failure to develop the squad now really would be a massive slap in the face for Moyes, players and fans alike. If that is the case then it would be ironic that EFC would look more vulnerable than the numerous clubs that have sold their soul. Ever the optimist, here’s hoping the future is bright afterall and that we get suitable additions fitting our resource and need e.g. Bullard, M’Bia, Smith, Moutinho and Milito signed sealed and delivered ASAP....

I remember meeting one of the Everton directors around the time of the Gary Speed sale and he was adamant that Speed was sold because he wanted more money from Newcastle. I believed for years that I’d heard it from a "good source" that Speed was a greedy bastard. It has since come to light that Speed did not want to go. So even the most high up of sources can’t be trusted.

We are mortgaged to the bloody hilt and at some point we have to balance the books. We can’t just keep on borrowing. We signed Pienaar with the McFadden money and cleared off a little bit of debt. It’s not rocket science is it? But look around; every other club is in massive amounts of debt too and at some point they sell players to clear that debt. Where’s the shock horror in that?

Ok, last word on the subject, possibly last post ever!

The reason I posted on here was to let fellow Evertonian?s know just how bad things are. We've all been short changed with the truth, and I, the same as any other true Blue, feel totally pissed off with the situation. Will anything change by secrets and sweeping things under the carpet?

I also posted what I was "told" (not a rumour) out of sheer frustration and anger. It?s easy for those who want to mock and insult (Brian Wolf) simply because they hear something they don?t want to or they choose to ridicule someone for the sake of it, or they're just like that anyway.

Posting what I?ve posted is not to gain kudos or look good, it?s simply airing what I feel (personally) should be open to those who spend their cash on games, kits for their kids etc etc and are being treated like idiots by idiots!

Believe what you like, I don't really give a fuck, I?m just gutted that we?re in the state we?re in and that we?ve all been expecting to "go to the next level" only for it to become perfectly obvious that wasn?t/isn?t possible.

One last thing. For people who keep referring to him as "Dithering Dave", how about "Principled Dave" who refuses to buy and settle for makeweights and is our last line of defence against settling for mediocrity!

I remember a couple of posters in previous threads to watch this space with regards to a German car firm taking us over. Could said posters bring me up to speed?

Phillip Jones,

Not have ever heard this rumour i have to say

If you are referring to BMW then forget about. They are letting staff go as they are way down in profits. How i know this as i work for them.

As for Mercedes they are in a worse state