The Mail Bag
An attractive proposition?
Comments (18)
For some time now, and certainly since Saturday, there has been a stream of contributions to the mailbag about investment in the Club. One poster even suggested he was not going to attend any more games until Bill Kenwright sold up. Another seemed to imply that Bill Kenwright was refusing continual offers from a queue of willing billionaires!
I would be very interested in reading supporters views about investment in Everton, especially as to how attractive an investment (ie. profit maker) they imagine Everton Football Club to be. Although I am sure it will come up in a subsequent discussion if this contribution is posted, this query is not intended to reopen the Kirkby debate (it is far from closed anway!) but rather a question as to why any investor would put money into the Club as it is NOW. What would make the Club an attractive proposition to invest in right NOW in order that an offer could be made and which would enable Bill Kenwright to take his cut and go away as many seem to want.
I ask only one thing and that is that I can declare my own view without giving my reasons for the moment. If I gave my reasons now I feel they would be responded to rather than the question I ask and it would get argumentative rather than educational (at least for me).
My own view is that Everon Football Club is by far the least attractive investment opportunity for anybody interested in investing in a Premiership Club and has been so for many years. Indeed I believe it is less attractive than many Championship Clubs. I would be very interested to read the views of others.
Dave Roberts, Posted 19/08/2008 at 17:39:52
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Nathan, I think you killed this one straight away! I have to agree with the London point.....also we are to near the RS. From an investors perspective they aint going to sell much merchandise in a city shared with the other lot.
Both Dave and Nathan make good points but let me be a little more optimistic...
An investor looking to make money out of the game has to bear in mind the current value of the club and how much he can raise that by in order to to make a return. Everton are very under valued at the moment. Despite that we have a successful team, a history of winning trophies (albeit none recently but few clubs outside the Rich Four have), a large fanbase which is also widespread, and fair brand recognition in Asia - not brilliant but fair and better than most.
We all know that we have a woeful marketing department and it is clear that there would be major improvements possible in this area with little effort and little time, assuming the right person is in charge who knows what they?re doing. The potential for increasing returns compared to the value of the club is therefore high, as opposed to any one of the Rich Four where the returns are high but so would be the purchase cost.
Villa have two other premiership teams in their city (plus Walsall), like us they have a good manager and a good history akin to ours. They attracted investment when an out-of-touch chairman was finally persuaded to give up the reins, although they did not require the new stadium.
So I still can?t understand why we have had no expressions of interest. Or rather I don?t believe it. But hey, we still have true blue Bill in charge of the trainset....
An investor looking to make money out of the game has to bear in mind the current value of the club and how much he can raise that by in order to to make a return. Everton are very under valued at the moment. Despite that we have a successful team, a history of winning trophies (albeit none recently but few clubs outside the Rich Four have), a large fanbase which is also widespread, and fair brand recognition in Asia - not brilliant but fair and better than most.
We all know that we have a woeful marketing department and it is clear that there would be major improvements possible in this area with little effort and little time, assuming the right person is in charge who knows what they?re doing. The potential for increasing returns compared to the value of the club is therefore high, as opposed to any one of the Rich Four where the returns are high but so would be the purchase cost.
Villa have two other premiership teams in their city (plus Walsall), like us they have a good manager and a good history akin to ours. They attracted investment when an out-of-touch chairman was finally persuaded to give up the reins, although they did not require the new stadium.
So I still can?t understand why we have had no expressions of interest. Or rather I don?t believe it. But hey, we still have true blue Bill in charge of the trainset....
Single city club falls flat on it’s arse guys; Villa and Man City. Any investor would be looking for a well run business or potential with a minimal outlay and need to change.
In those terms we have going against us:
Terribly ran business - retail and marketing
Stadium - redevelop or new either isn’t cheap
On the plus side, I don’t wear the location being against us as Capital of Culture and the city is being redeveloped and looking up for once in decades. European and EPL status is now regular, well up to the end of last season looking that way.
We would have to find an investor looking for long term returns not a fast profit as there simply isn’t a fast profit to be made out of Everton.
In those terms we have going against us:
Terribly ran business - retail and marketing
Stadium - redevelop or new either isn’t cheap
On the plus side, I don’t wear the location being against us as Capital of Culture and the city is being redeveloped and looking up for once in decades. European and EPL status is now regular, well up to the end of last season looking that way.
We would have to find an investor looking for long term returns not a fast profit as there simply isn’t a fast profit to be made out of Everton.
I agree that we are poorly run on the commercial side. But if that was reflected in the asking price I feel we could attract some interest. Let's not forget the gesture by Sir Jack Hayward selling Wolves for £10 with the stipulation the new owner invests x amount, on new players etc. I doubt Kenwright would do that, but he could look to making less cash personally out of the sale. I find it hard to believe that a club that is hovering just below the cash cow that is the top four places, is not attractive to investors.
Perhaps, Blue Bill is waiting for the right person to invest or maybe just maybe once he has completed his mission i.e. leave Goodison Park - former investors will once again take charge - Granchester family?
I find it difficult to believe that nobody has approached BK with money and I don?t think he is as daft as some people believe him to be. IMO there is a method to all of his madness but only time will tell.
I find it difficult to believe that nobody has approached BK with money and I don?t think he is as daft as some people believe him to be. IMO there is a method to all of his madness but only time will tell.
I?d say that the problem we have is that we have a non-existent brand image abroad and our name is not city related .
In response to Gavin - Manchester City is obviously linked to Manchester - still seen by many abroad as No 2 city behind London in the UK, had new ground etc.
In response to Gavin - Manchester City is obviously linked to Manchester - still seen by many abroad as No 2 city behind London in the UK, had new ground etc.
Villa on the other hand are not City connected but were well run, debt free, good ground and excellent infrastructure, which was enough for Randy to take an interest.
In my job I have travelled extensively in Europe, N & S America and Asia Pacific and unfortunately Everton would be better off if we changed our name to Liverpool United or Liverpool City or whatever but god forbid the day.
The appeal of Everton is there for all to see.
Currently massively underperforming commercially therefore major opportunity to increase income.
Historically the 4th most successful club in England (Ireland and Wales)so lots of potential.
Steeped in tradition (marketing opportunities).
First club in Liverpool, the European capital of culture and receiving massive investment in infrastructure.
Goodison Park also steeped in history can be developed progressively with incremental capacity as funds allow and could contain the first Merseyside Football Museum (Bill could be the curator - he has the bullshit for it).
GP is owned not leased (although subject to a mortgage).
And it can be picked up for the tidy sum of..............A lot less than Newcastle!!
Any bidders??
Currently massively underperforming commercially therefore major opportunity to increase income.
Historically the 4th most successful club in England (Ireland and Wales)so lots of potential.
Steeped in tradition (marketing opportunities).
First club in Liverpool, the European capital of culture and receiving massive investment in infrastructure.
Goodison Park also steeped in history can be developed progressively with incremental capacity as funds allow and could contain the first Merseyside Football Museum (Bill could be the curator - he has the bullshit for it).
GP is owned not leased (although subject to a mortgage).
And it can be picked up for the tidy sum of..............A lot less than Newcastle!!
Any bidders??
From an investment point of view any EPL club is a poor choice. When a bond pays 8% in Australia, why would anyone want the headache of owning a football club ? In terms of recent investments, Thaskin and Roman have an emotional investment in football (i.e. both are noted fans). Others (Glazers for instance) borrow money to fund the purchase, using the club as a collateral. So, they don’t take any risk. If the loans can’t be repaid, the club goes under and the investor goes home.
Other, more savvy, businessmen, such as Mittal, who opted for QPR, and Ambani, who didn’t end up buying anything, know an overpriced market when they see one. For them, owning an EPL club at the present time is not an investment, but a status symbol. But, since they are investors not showmen, they steer clear.
In other words, its a false economy. A passing phase. Perhaps if we can convince all the big billionaires of the world to a penis size competition in the EPL (it seems to happen already in America’s cup sailing regatta) , we can have a more even playing field. Maybe we can get Sultan of Brunei, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Carlos Slim and Ingar Kamprad to buy a club each, we can even the playing field. Until then, we live with overpriced players, the oligopoly of the top 4 and summers of discontentment.
Other, more savvy, businessmen, such as Mittal, who opted for QPR, and Ambani, who didn’t end up buying anything, know an overpriced market when they see one. For them, owning an EPL club at the present time is not an investment, but a status symbol. But, since they are investors not showmen, they steer clear.
In other words, its a false economy. A passing phase. Perhaps if we can convince all the big billionaires of the world to a penis size competition in the EPL (it seems to happen already in America’s cup sailing regatta) , we can have a more even playing field. Maybe we can get Sultan of Brunei, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Carlos Slim and Ingar Kamprad to buy a club each, we can even the playing field. Until then, we live with overpriced players, the oligopoly of the top 4 and summers of discontentment.
We will never attract investment until we are able to assure all Cheshire car travellers like Dave that the priority, viz. world class car parking facilities alongside a car- traveller supportive stadium has been met
It also doesn’t help that our commercial presence in Liverpool is short of NIL and our Board are as active and useful as spare pricks in a brothel
It also doesn’t help that our commercial presence in Liverpool is short of NIL and our Board are as active and useful as spare pricks in a brothel
Jay Harris makes all the good points about Evertons attractiveness for investment but I think we’re not likely to attract anyone on those grounds unless they’re a supporter.
A business would be looking at what they’d have to put in and how long it will take to recoup their expenses, plus good profits.
Unfortunately we fail on these counts unless we already have a new free stadium.
My bet is BK has already sown up a deal to sell up as soon as Desperation Kirkby gets the go ahead.
A business would be looking at what they’d have to put in and how long it will take to recoup their expenses, plus good profits.
Unfortunately we fail on these counts unless we already have a new free stadium.
My bet is BK has already sown up a deal to sell up as soon as Desperation Kirkby gets the go ahead.
You’re right, Eric. I love our history as much you and the rest of us do, Jay, but it’s because we support Everton in the first place that the history is interesting. No mere investor gives a fig about history. And if you think it’s a selling point to Gen Y would be supporters outside of Liverpool (where your target market is in these happy Sky days), forget it. History is the club you support at the moment’s results so far this season, and it’s only relevance is where you team for the moment is likely to end up at the end of this season and, therefore, to your decision whether you’re going to be supporting them anymore after that or it’s a switch to someone else for next year (that is, if you don’t decide to jump ship before then).
Attractive to buy or sell? BK, or more importantly his backers will probably want top dollar as did Moores at Anfield. You could say that Everton are a far more attractive proposition than say they were under Walter Smith. Both the stadium and the infrastructure hasn’t changed in that period. The reason for this has been performances on the pitch and league placing and the manager who has changed our profile somewhat. Securing a champions league spot and consolidating that status would obviously add to this attractiveness massively. We are nearer to that than ever, or at least we were at the end of last season. If we had prioritised this objective and added to our squad, and could be seen to be genuinely pushing the top four, that position would have been further advanced. Pompey attracted investment with a tiny ramshackle stadium, a fraction of our fanbase and next to no history. Our history and identity is our goodwill and is almost a priceless asset that surely eclipses that of most EPL clubs, our stadium embodies much of that and can be redeveloped incrementally to meet ALL modern stadia criteria as and WHEN we need it. We should be very saleable as a real bargain with massive potential. For a comparative pittance, an investor will get a club that has been closer to displacing one of those on the real gravy train.
"Profit Maker" ?
how often do the people who invest in football clubs actually make a profit ?
Bk will make an absolute killing as he got in at the right time, so too did Ken Bates at Chelsea - and lets face it he won the lottery there - but the list of other "profit makers " is a very short one indeed
how often do the people who invest in football clubs actually make a profit ?
Bk will make an absolute killing as he got in at the right time, so too did Ken Bates at Chelsea - and lets face it he won the lottery there - but the list of other "profit makers " is a very short one indeed
With the exception of Abramovitch almost everyone who is investing in British Premier league teams is out to make a fat profit from the gloabl television and merchandising opportunities that the Premier League provides and/ or the prospect of selling on for bigger money in the future. So almost all stable Premier League sides are potentially attractive propositions. And as Everton are amongst the most stable of Premier League sides with a 50 year+ history in the top division they should in theory be a prime investment. But they’re not and the reason for this is the stadium. Anyone taking over Everton knows that they face a likely 200 million up front cost to provide a new stadium or update the current one. That will at best hit them hard in the pocket and at worse destroy the investment if this leads to relegation from the Premier League as it has for loads of clubs who have had to fork out for new stadia in recent years.
Geoff
Not sure your right, I can think of many people who have sunk a lot of dosh into their clubs - money they’ll never see again
West Ham, Pompey have inferior stadiums to us but had no trouble attracting investment.
People are queing up to invest in Spurs - they’ll need to find about 300 million for a Ground
Not sure your right, I can think of many people who have sunk a lot of dosh into their clubs - money they’ll never see again
West Ham, Pompey have inferior stadiums to us but had no trouble attracting investment.
People are queing up to invest in Spurs - they’ll need to find about 300 million for a Ground
Geoff,
Might be best to redevelop then? One stand at a time over a period to keep it affordable. BK can give it away for a song, as did Johnson to him (one good turn deserves another). It would be the honourable, blue-blooded thing to do. As far as the stadium issue being the biggest barrier...... How did Pompey achieve this elusive feat? They secured investment with a fraction of what we have going for us. The stadium may have an effect on the proceedings, but I believe it has far more to do with the club’s receptiveness to a take-over, and or the timing of such to coincide with the biggest payday. Even Tesco’s own appraisal of the situation stated that the Board is not interested in dilution of ownership. I suppose this mainly applied when they thought they were getting a stadium for nowt.
Might be best to redevelop then? One stand at a time over a period to keep it affordable. BK can give it away for a song, as did Johnson to him (one good turn deserves another). It would be the honourable, blue-blooded thing to do. As far as the stadium issue being the biggest barrier...... How did Pompey achieve this elusive feat? They secured investment with a fraction of what we have going for us. The stadium may have an effect on the proceedings, but I believe it has far more to do with the club’s receptiveness to a take-over, and or the timing of such to coincide with the biggest payday. Even Tesco’s own appraisal of the situation stated that the Board is not interested in dilution of ownership. I suppose this mainly applied when they thought they were getting a stadium for nowt.
Goodison is pretty much un-redevelopable - that’s the problem.
My hope is that DK does go through and that someone can persuade Paul McCartney to invest!
My hope is that DK does go through and that someone can persuade Paul McCartney to invest!
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1 Posted 19/08/2008 at 22:03:23
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If you look at the clubs that get big investment they basically follow three rules
1 Highly successful on the field or business sense
2 In London
3 Single city clubs
We don?t meet any of those criteria.
Everton are a big club but due to our location and the simple fact that our fans don?t spend a massive amount of money and are media image is poor we are not on most people's radar.
Add to that are suspected debt of around £60m, the requirement of at least £100m to get the stadium (be in Goodison or elsewhere) into a decent state and that the squad really needs around £40m to keep up with those around us puts us in a woeful position.
The only other hope is an Abramovich type sugar daddy who doesn?t care. However they are a very rare breed and Chelsea may yet find out can be very dangerous - all the money that he has invested is done so on a 0% interest loan which can be called in if he so wishes..........