The Mail Bag
The Simplified Transfer Policy
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Numerous comments have been made about setting our stall out too high in terms of the types of players we have been going after. Was Arshavin going to come here over Arsenal who were interested at the tim? NO!
Was Moutinho ever likely to join us? No, I'll eat my words if he came and if he ever wanted to come! Was Michael Owen going to come earlier in the summer after we had a bid accepted? No! Was Engelaar? No! Was Tiago? No. There is a recurring theme here!
And this is a problem with the way BK and DM have gone about their transfer policy this summer.
We have spent too much time this summer negotiating with clubs for weeks on end to then later on down the process speak to the player and he goes "not interested thanks" That time is irreplaceable with a deadline pending.
I'll put it simply. I work in recruitment at a fairly senior level, and BK and moyes should be recruit as if it's a business ? by finding out if a player is interested first and then negotiating with the club otherwise it is a fiscal cause. It's the same as an interview process business gets a shortlist, interviews them, checks who's interested, then selects their preferred candidate and negotiate terms.
That in my opinion is where we have gone wrong.
James Cadwaladr, Posted 22/08/2008 at 14:49:43
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The fact is Moyes has been let down by virtually everyone around him at EFC bar the playing staff.
When you look at why the best players dont join its not a recruitment problem we’ve got - its an image problem.
We got close to correcting that recently but we’ve blown it again. Simple as that.
And so we scout further afield - which is not helped at all by a perception that all EPL clubs are some kind of winning lottery ticket or a stepping stone to fantasy land. Take note M’Bia, who sounds a lovely individual. Not.
But the reality is now quite different. The credit crunch is biting, the funds are not readily available and so we try and negotiate the only deals we can.... but because we have pleaded poverty in the past to get Lescott etc. no-one believes us and if we are telling the truth then they’re not interested anyway.
Great!!
When you look at why the best players dont join its not a recruitment problem we’ve got - its an image problem.
We got close to correcting that recently but we’ve blown it again. Simple as that.
And so we scout further afield - which is not helped at all by a perception that all EPL clubs are some kind of winning lottery ticket or a stepping stone to fantasy land. Take note M’Bia, who sounds a lovely individual. Not.
But the reality is now quite different. The credit crunch is biting, the funds are not readily available and so we try and negotiate the only deals we can.... but because we have pleaded poverty in the past to get Lescott etc. no-one believes us and if we are telling the truth then they’re not interested anyway.
Great!!
Where the hell is that wind up merchant Brian Williams? He told us three days ago we were signing Moutinho.
Why protect DM...if its an ’image’ problem then he is a part of it. Instead of playing friendlies in the USA shouldn’t he have been overseeing the priorities here at home...surely Steve Round could have handled the USA trip !! DM’s priorities were getting players at the club and a lot of time was wasted while other teams got busy strengthening their squads..Lets look at the facts...Injuries had piled up..the rule for bench subs now allowed 7..we had finished 5th and should have been eager to kick on...what did we do ?? Released many players and allowed McFadden to go without replacement and then AJ when everyone knew that the Africans were absent and Vaughn was injured...DM deserves his share of criticism...he is a ’Big Buck’ earner.
The whole lot is a shambles, I’ve seen charity stalls run better. You should add to that DM chooses players he is interested in then Bullshitter gets involved and tries to buy a £20m player for two bob and is correctly told to do one, he phones back saying he has found another fifty pence down the back of his casting couch and he can add more if the players gets his team into the Champions League.
The way the two of these have handled themselves this summer is a disgrace and any player in their right mind would give them the big "no chance", as the media is freely available around the planet the agents and players now all know we are ran like a joke and deep in the shit and the only players interested would be overpriced has beens looking to do another KW and take the piss for lots of cash.
I bought my season ticket early like so many others looking to the promised land of investment in the team thinking DM’s "5 or 6 players short of breaking into the top four" would be met and they have royally fucked us over again, it would be a nonsense not to go to the home games aving coughed up over £500 to do so already but they wont be getting any merchandising from me this season, not spent a penny on food or drink and wont be and I’m sure my wife and two baby boys would appreciate and reciprocate my season ticket money next year far more than Bullshitter and the Ginger One.
The way the two of these have handled themselves this summer is a disgrace and any player in their right mind would give them the big "no chance", as the media is freely available around the planet the agents and players now all know we are ran like a joke and deep in the shit and the only players interested would be overpriced has beens looking to do another KW and take the piss for lots of cash.
I bought my season ticket early like so many others looking to the promised land of investment in the team thinking DM’s "5 or 6 players short of breaking into the top four" would be met and they have royally fucked us over again, it would be a nonsense not to go to the home games aving coughed up over £500 to do so already but they wont be getting any merchandising from me this season, not spent a penny on food or drink and wont be and I’m sure my wife and two baby boys would appreciate and reciprocate my season ticket money next year far more than Bullshitter and the Ginger One.
Hmmm yes, I guess your right. I mean top quality players would much rather go to spurs because... er... they are based in London? I think thats the excuse we use. And they would rather go to Man City because... erm.. billionaire? Newcastle.... large fan base? Chelsea a few years back.... also billionaire? Fulham... I guess thats London too. Villa... erm..... Villa? Central to the UK?
Oh hang on. These seem just like excuses. Perhaps what we are offering these players is just not up to scratch compared with our peers? Perhaps we are far too focused on a bargin and missing the big picture. Maybe I’m wrong (possibley the only toffeeweb reader to admit that possiblity also).
P.S What bid accepted for Owen? I’ve been following closley almost everyday, several times a day, every Everton forum and website and seen nothing of the sort.
Oh hang on. These seem just like excuses. Perhaps what we are offering these players is just not up to scratch compared with our peers? Perhaps we are far too focused on a bargin and missing the big picture. Maybe I’m wrong (possibley the only toffeeweb reader to admit that possiblity also).
P.S What bid accepted for Owen? I’ve been following closley almost everyday, several times a day, every Everton forum and website and seen nothing of the sort.
Tiago turned down Spurs and Everton
M’Bia is back tracking saying that he doesn’t really want to leave Rennes just in case he gets stuck there. Wouldn’t look good if he had been saying that his heart is elsewhere so he says it is down to the money. That way Rennes can give him a small pay rise, he can then say that it is enough, even though less than Everton offered because his heart is really at Rennes.
M’Bia is back tracking saying that he doesn’t really want to leave Rennes just in case he gets stuck there. Wouldn’t look good if he had been saying that his heart is elsewhere so he says it is down to the money. That way Rennes can give him a small pay rise, he can then say that it is enough, even though less than Everton offered because his heart is really at Rennes.
Ask any journo who ploghs the Mersey beat and he will tell you that EFC have a stinker of a reputation amongst agents,players and clubs for the way they negotiate on players.They put the offer in,it’s accepted and then the fun starts.How low can the down payment be?How long for the balance?The players got scar tissue, can we re-negotiate?Who’s paying the agents?Who’s paying the VAT?And all that before talking turkey over wages.
The story goes that only on deadline day will Kenwright,Moyes and Co take a flyer on anybody so clubs who know the score will only do business with us when it’s too late for pissing about.
That’s how we finished up with VdM-so perhaps they are right,after all!!!!!
The story goes that only on deadline day will Kenwright,Moyes and Co take a flyer on anybody so clubs who know the score will only do business with us when it’s too late for pissing about.
That’s how we finished up with VdM-so perhaps they are right,after all!!!!!
Just out of interest when did we bid for Owen this summer?
I agree, the likes of Moutinho, Joaquin, Wagner Love, Owen, Arshavin are Champions League quality players and until we get in the Champions League, it is highly unlikely that they are going to join us, whether we can afford the transfer fee and wages, or not.
On the other hand, why haven’t we signed the likes of Smith, Gera & Bullard.
Furthermore, whatever happened to Fernandes? A CL quality player who wanted, and had joined us twice on loan, who we could have signed for half of what we bid last summer, didn’t sign???
Something is seriously wrong.
On the other hand, why haven’t we signed the likes of Smith, Gera & Bullard.
Furthermore, whatever happened to Fernandes? A CL quality player who wanted, and had joined us twice on loan, who we could have signed for half of what we bid last summer, didn’t sign???
Something is seriously wrong.
Evertons problem is when we show interest in players we get put off too easily by the asking price and give up on a player and move onto our next target, whereas other clubs e.g. Liverpool keep trying to force the issue and make a higher bid for the player doing their best to get the player. I also read an article in the Echo by Nigel Martyn who questioned Moyes’ policy of taking time in his transfer dealings before actual signing a player as at the moment we don’t have time on our side and need players quickly, he said that at one point he wondered whether he would actually be moving to Everton, because there was a 2 week delay before he eventually signed and this often gives other clubs the opportunity to make a bid for the player, like Fernandes to Valencia!
Neil Scott
Spot on mate. It's an image problem we have at EFC. What sensible player would want to sign for a club whose manager wont even sign his own contract?
Spot on mate. It's an image problem we have at EFC. What sensible player would want to sign for a club whose manager wont even sign his own contract?
We have all known for months that we needed to recruit fresh blood into our club... instead we release players and don't replace them, leaving us exposed at the start of what should have been a promising season. Like many on here, I bought my season ticket early and will turn up faithfully every week to support the team I love, but have serious doubts if I will renew next year.
WBA away today... surely we won't lose... will we?
James, what you are suggesting is called tapping up and is illegal. If your point is that we are suffering by playing things by the book then fair point but is that really a fair criticism.
The real problem comes down to money plain and simple in that we still don’t have the money to a) offer the often inflated asking prices b) offer enough of the transfer fee up front or c) match the often inflated wages that players want. This means we have to get involved in lengthy negotiations to try and drive the prices down and while this often works when trying to obtain mid level players from mid level clubs it clearly hasn’t worked when trying to obtain top quality players from top level clubs.
Add to that the fact that we have been shafted by at least one agent and two players after/during these lengthy negotiations and you can begin to understand why no one has arrived yet. I don’t think the problem has been players not wanting to come to Everton it has all been about having the money to get them in. I still think we will get players in this week.
The real problem comes down to money plain and simple in that we still don’t have the money to a) offer the often inflated asking prices b) offer enough of the transfer fee up front or c) match the often inflated wages that players want. This means we have to get involved in lengthy negotiations to try and drive the prices down and while this often works when trying to obtain mid level players from mid level clubs it clearly hasn’t worked when trying to obtain top quality players from top level clubs.
Add to that the fact that we have been shafted by at least one agent and two players after/during these lengthy negotiations and you can begin to understand why no one has arrived yet. I don’t think the problem has been players not wanting to come to Everton it has all been about having the money to get them in. I still think we will get players in this week.
If we approach a player before contacting his club then we are tapping him up. No ifs, no buts. Football doesn’t work like a management recruitment agency. So if someone wants to sign Arteta then it’s perfectly ok for them to talk to the player before contacting the club ? Yeah, right. James Cadwaladr would probaly be the first one to post whingeing how it’s not fair that our players are being targeted. If you take the emotional (and often irrational) attachment to clubs and their players out of football then we just have a business. And that would be as exciting as working in recruitment :0)
I think all season ticket holders should now be given access to all Bill Kenwrights west end shows to slightly increase some entertainment value this season!
Owen bid accepted? When? Isn’t there enough misery around without making your own stuff up?
The Original poster says - "BK and moyes should recruit as if it’s a business - by finding out if a player is interested first and then negotiating with the club."
Isn’t that called "Tapping up"?
Agree with most of the rest though, we truly are in a mess. KENWRIGHT OUT.
Isn’t that called "Tapping up"?
Agree with most of the rest though, we truly are in a mess. KENWRIGHT OUT.
I don’t believe a single word that comes out of Goodison these days.
Moyes said at the start of the window that he wanted to move quickly to tie up the best free transfers.
Later on we heard that they were too slow finalising budgets and that’s why there’s been no movement on transfers.
I really can’t believe that today Moyes has said that he’s going to have to lower his standards. What prospective new signing is going to want to think that they’re sub-standard?!!
Absolute shambles and I do sincerely feel that we could be in trouble this season.
Moyes said at the start of the window that he wanted to move quickly to tie up the best free transfers.
Later on we heard that they were too slow finalising budgets and that’s why there’s been no movement on transfers.
I really can’t believe that today Moyes has said that he’s going to have to lower his standards. What prospective new signing is going to want to think that they’re sub-standard?!!
Absolute shambles and I do sincerely feel that we could be in trouble this season.
I personally do NOT believe the money has been there all summer.
I believe that we dragged negotiations out waiting for the release of the money.I also believe Wyness was made a scapegoat (even though I dont like or rate the man) and Moyes was not involved in any transfer activity until he found the situation out hence his change in demure recently.
IMO there is only one consistent theme since Kenwright took over and that?s deceipt,fantasy and incompetence all in equal measures.
Paul Gregg who only got involved with EFC because he was a friend of Kenwrights saw through him over the KD fiasco.
Then BK had the temerity to generate a campaign to discredit Gregg and "pretend" that he had investment (Fortress Sports fund)coming.
I have no doubt that he told Moyes we would make "BIG" signings he said as much to the supporters only 2 weeks ago with his "watch this space routine" and "I have seen the Dvd?s of players we?re looking to buy and I say wow".
Those supporters blaming Moyes and excusing Kenwright have very short memories.
Kenwright is a lying,deceitful disaster waiting to happen and now EFC is suffering because of it.
If he doesnt resign soon he?s an absolute disgrace of a man.
I believe that we dragged negotiations out waiting for the release of the money.I also believe Wyness was made a scapegoat (even though I dont like or rate the man) and Moyes was not involved in any transfer activity until he found the situation out hence his change in demure recently.
IMO there is only one consistent theme since Kenwright took over and that?s deceipt,fantasy and incompetence all in equal measures.
Paul Gregg who only got involved with EFC because he was a friend of Kenwrights saw through him over the KD fiasco.
Then BK had the temerity to generate a campaign to discredit Gregg and "pretend" that he had investment (Fortress Sports fund)coming.
I have no doubt that he told Moyes we would make "BIG" signings he said as much to the supporters only 2 weeks ago with his "watch this space routine" and "I have seen the Dvd?s of players we?re looking to buy and I say wow".
Those supporters blaming Moyes and excusing Kenwright have very short memories.
Kenwright is a lying,deceitful disaster waiting to happen and now EFC is suffering because of it.
If he doesnt resign soon he?s an absolute disgrace of a man.
Kenwright is "a disaster waiting to happen"?
There’s more???
There’s more???
Anyone know any steam websites for the match? Livefooty.doctor is down
According to the quotes from Moyes in the Echo, not one player we’ve gone after this summer has specifically turned us down. With Tiago, it was just a case of him not wanting to play in the UK. I think Moyes may be forgetting Aaron Ramsey here, but the general point is valid. We’re not targeting players who don’t want to come to Everton.
Is the game on the web anywhere????
I dont just blame Kenwright 100% for the transfers. As much as i like Moyes i think he has a part to play in this and there is no wonder how he does get tagged the ditherer!..What puzzles me is why didnt we go in with bids as soon as the window opened until last minute.In my own opinion we are NOT yet a house hold name in europe and until we are we will not attarct the big name players.We got 4th & 5th & 6th off workman like spirit with a touch of class in the right depts ie Arteta. But we just need to replace Carsley--Dont get me wtong Carsley was not a GREAT player but he did a job and there are plenty of players that can do this and probably better. We just need to get numbers in which was better then the players we let go..Do i make sense..They dont have to be £10-20m players as much as i would love them here
There’s a way to get around being charged as "tapping up". You simply contact the club and agent and explain that you’re interested in the player and would like to make an offer. After that, we are perfectly within our rights to ensure, via the player’s agent, that a move for him is worth pursuing.
As Barry Bragg said it’s called tapping up and it’s illegal.
Unless we want to buy say Berbatov or Barry and then we could announce our intentions all over the national press in order to unsettle the player and put him in an untenable position with his club so they
HAVE to sell him?
Also the club and the player have a contract so the club have to be approached first to see if they would be willing to release the player from his contract, and at what price. Otherwise the player would be in breach of his contract and can be sued by the club he’s left.
Unless we want to buy say Berbatov or Barry and then we could announce our intentions all over the national press in order to unsettle the player and put him in an untenable position with his club so they
HAVE to sell him?
Also the club and the player have a contract so the club have to be approached first to see if they would be willing to release the player from his contract, and at what price. Otherwise the player would be in breach of his contract and can be sued by the club he’s left.
Alex Nayler you need to read ToffeeWeb more often. Frequently posters including myself hope to be wrong in our opinions and say so, because being right would mean a poor season from our beloved team!!
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1 Posted 23/08/2008 at 05:16:48
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