The Mail Bag
Will Kenwright show up at EGM?
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Now, as they say, this may be no more than speculation, but I was told very categorically last night not to expect Blue Bill at the EGM!
As Life President, Sir Philip Carter will take the chair, and his recent re-appointment to the Board will entitle him to do so. This, it is hoped, will `spike the guns` of the petitioners and Sir Phil`s vast experience of company meetings enable him to run rings round `the opposition` on the limitation of discussion.
As the holder of a single share, my intention ? if that happens ? would be to propose the meeting be immediately adjourned until the Chairman can be present whith the added demand that this MUST be within one month.
Any other suggestions for the tactical approach we should take?
Brian Copson, Posted 23/08/2008 at 10:17:28
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Whats the point of Kenwright showing up? He will lie through his fucken teeth anyway!
Couldn’t agree more, Matthew! Good post, Brian.
Kenwright must show up. Simple. He owes it to the fans, prospective investors, the board and to the young men who have had to unexpectedly step up and play a major role in the team this season. I can’t believe Kenwright would be that stupid...can he?!?
Kenwright must show up. Simple. He owes it to the fans, prospective investors, the board and to the young men who have had to unexpectedly step up and play a major role in the team this season. I can’t believe Kenwright would be that stupid...can he?!?
The anticipation surrounding this EGM is simply ridiculous. You only have to look at the recent history of the AGMs (and one EGM), as documented elsewhere on this excellent website. BK’s failure to attend would simply underline the toothlessness that perennially hobbles efforts of the small shareholders to stir things up. And this idea that they will "get answers" ? never mind make the Directors "feel uncomfortable" ? is naieve in the extreme.
A few vocal ones may get to vent their spleens, and think that has achieved something. The best thing would be for BK to deflect their fire by announcing that he has found a buyer... but now look ? it’s me who’s dreaming!!!
It’s vitally important if possible to propose a vote of no confidence in his chairmanship if the shithouse is there which I did say in another thread was highly unlikely through one of his trademark lies; probably theatrical related (like every other piece of shite from his mouth).
Sorry Paul just read your post and had to laugh at the idea the fantasist would announce he has found a buyer - would ANYONE in their right mind believe him saying he had found a buyer; is it Chris Samuelson and Fortress Fund 2 or another non existent Russian Billionaire, he could invent an Indian or Asian Billionaire as he has not used that lie yet, he has already told the ESCLA that he has had calls from Americans and other countries saying they don’t want to buy us. Surely like the bullshit over new players, anyone at the EGM wouldn’t believe his new buyer trick unless they saw the buyer standing over his dead corpse with a high velocity weapon holding his shares and an Everton scarf above his head.
Gavin
Your comments and abuse are not nice. Would you prefer Thaksin or the yanks in charge?
Your comments and abuse are not nice. Would you prefer Thaksin or the yanks in charge?
Sorry Gavin,the discussion at an EGM is constrained to the business on the pre-circulated Agenda plus ’any further discussion the Chair may allow.’ It matters not who takes the chair as he will not permit a vote of confidence to be taken unless all shareholders have notice of such a motion.
I suspect some ’theatricals’ from Kenwright either by a ’no show’or relinquishing the chairmanship through pressure of business ’at a Board meeting held this afternoon’.
Of course he’ll be back in charge the following day!!!!!
I suspect some ’theatricals’ from Kenwright either by a ’no show’or relinquishing the chairmanship through pressure of business ’at a Board meeting held this afternoon’.
Of course he’ll be back in charge the following day!!!!!
Gavin - my God, I understand the frustration vented at the club and Kenwright in particular at the current time. But your talk of ’resignation’ and ’votes of no confidence’ make no sense. Kenwright is the majority shareholder in the club, the owner - he’s not an employee.
What does ’resign’ mean? He’d still be the owner. So there is ’no confidence’ in him. He’s still the owner.
What you want is for Kenwright to sell the club to somebody else. Me too. (As long as it’s the right person.) But for that there has to be somebody willing to buy the club from him. There hasn’t been so far. Of course it’s completely improper on here to say it - but Kirkby getting called in (as well as cutting off funding for transfers) made it MUCH less likely that we would get the new owner most of us want.
I think it was Lenin who said that if you will the ends you have to will the means..
What does ’resign’ mean? He’d still be the owner. So there is ’no confidence’ in him. He’s still the owner.
What you want is for Kenwright to sell the club to somebody else. Me too. (As long as it’s the right person.) But for that there has to be somebody willing to buy the club from him. There hasn’t been so far. Of course it’s completely improper on here to say it - but Kirkby getting called in (as well as cutting off funding for transfers) made it MUCH less likely that we would get the new owner most of us want.
I think it was Lenin who said that if you will the ends you have to will the means..
Neil I think the problem with BK selling is the documented fact in the planning application that categorically stated neither he or any other board members are willing to dilute or sell any or all of their shares. Given his propensity for bare faced lies all summer unless I saw the new owner brandishing said majority shareholding I find it hard to believe lipservice from BK saying he is even looking for a buyer. The ad nauseum arguments as to whether or not there are or ever have been any buyers interested is a moot point as no one beyond BK has that information. Many, myself included find it hard to believe given other team’s finding new owners with a lot less to offer than Everton grinds my gears. The semantics of "looking for investment" is semantic double talk as it has never or never will mean looking for a buyer, the terms attached to what was on offer to potential "investors" may well have put paid to anyone looking to "invest" in Everton with little or no return - again conjecture but how else could that fabled 24/7 be explained beyond investors not meaning the same as buyers.
Ian I would rather have anyone, any creed, race, colour, nationality given they where far more capable business people and not charlatan theatrical serial liars hiding behind "I’m a true Evertonian" and other well rehearsed now meaningless soundbites.
Ian I would rather have anyone, any creed, race, colour, nationality given they where far more capable business people and not charlatan theatrical serial liars hiding behind "I’m a true Evertonian" and other well rehearsed now meaningless soundbites.
Gavin, Bill has also said since the stetement in the planning application that he was willing to sell the club to someone with more money. So the best way to read the planning application is not as a "lie" (we are not in kindergarten now anyway where everyone always tells the truth), but as what needed to be said for the audience of the planning application.
As we’ve discussed before, you can believe that have been serious buyers of Everton who have kept it all secret - I don’t, because it makes no sense. Bill can also offer any "terms" he likes - a serious buyer can always say: "No, I have different terms and want to buy you out". You believe that there have been really serious people with the money and desire to buy Everton that we have never heard of. I don’t.
As we’ve discussed before, you can believe that have been serious buyers of Everton who have kept it all secret - I don’t, because it makes no sense. Bill can also offer any "terms" he likes - a serious buyer can always say: "No, I have different terms and want to buy you out". You believe that there have been really serious people with the money and desire to buy Everton that we have never heard of. I don’t.
Will Kenwright turn up ??
WATCH THIS SPACE !!!!!!!!!!!
WATCH THIS SPACE !!!!!!!!!!!
Neil, Bill has also said since the planning application prepare for a surprise on Saturday (our first game) and yes thirty odd thousand were surprised that he had fucked up again. He also said watch this space or did that mean space(s) throughout the squad. Neil, Bill has lost any sympathetic ear on my part as he has cried wolf for years. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, fool on me. How more can the paying customers of this club be ridden with lies? Out of interest Neil, do you go to the games? Do you hold a season ticket or buy ad hoc?
Brian. Have a look at the ’Standing orders’ for such a meeting.
The point of who chairs the meeting should be within those orders.
If the meeting in any way contravenes ’Standing orders’ then a challenge can be made.
I suspect though the club have already covered any such moves.
The point of who chairs the meeting should be within those orders.
If the meeting in any way contravenes ’Standing orders’ then a challenge can be made.
I suspect though the club have already covered any such moves.
Gavin, all I am saying that ranting on about Bill’s ’lies’ does not really get us anywhere. I agree that at times he is a stupid showman who likes to please people when he would be better keeping his mouth shut. Some of his ’lies’ (such as "watch this space") fall into this category; others (see the Christine thread) are much more forgiveable.
But in any case I am much more interested in what is going to take the club forward (why I support Kirkby) than in speculating over Bill and the state of his soul. And again - I AGREE with you that it is time for a him to go and be replaced by someone richer and more commercially astute.
I live down south, Gavin, so can’t get to games as much as I’d like (I had a season a few years back although inevitably missed a lot). But I do whatever I can.
But in any case I am much more interested in what is going to take the club forward (why I support Kirkby) than in speculating over Bill and the state of his soul. And again - I AGREE with you that it is time for a him to go and be replaced by someone richer and more commercially astute.
I live down south, Gavin, so can’t get to games as much as I’d like (I had a season a few years back although inevitably missed a lot). But I do whatever I can.
Dear dear Neil, how is ive got this guy whos going to pay 20+ million into the bank by friday and him not doing so going to please anyone, oh it may please someone with such low intelligance who would believe moving an inner city club with the highest walk up attendance in the premiership that moving out of the city to a small town outside the city is in the clubs best interests.
Neil the rant at BK’s integrity is symptomatic of his misuse of integrity when he claims to be a fans like us. I find it abhorrent that he has the audacity to lie to children, the very supporters we need to nurture and develop to keep the club going. Older fans and supporters can accept clever PR and disseminate it ourselves through comparing it to life experiences and a hunch you are being taken for a ride.
A far more astute businessman would have used far superior PR to the shambles BK uses which is again symptomatic of his lack of credentials or acumen.
A far more astute businessman would have used far superior PR to the shambles BK uses which is again symptomatic of his lack of credentials or acumen.
Rich, when you’ve got an alternative to Kirkby which is going to help us out of our current financial plight, let me know. I’d like one too.
Gavin, get a grip man! He’s not ’lying to children’ like some Dr Evil. He no doubt thought there was a good chance someone would come in, and he is a born showman and crowd pleaser. I don’t think he should do it either. But it’s just not that big a deal.
And again, he could hardly ’tell the truth’ could he? Should he have said: "We may not be able to sign anyone because since Kirkby was called in we have no money and I am scrambling around right now trying to raise some dosh. Wish me luck!"?
Gavin, get a grip man! He’s not ’lying to children’ like some Dr Evil. He no doubt thought there was a good chance someone would come in, and he is a born showman and crowd pleaser. I don’t think he should do it either. But it’s just not that big a deal.
And again, he could hardly ’tell the truth’ could he? Should he have said: "We may not be able to sign anyone because since Kirkby was called in we have no money and I am scrambling around right now trying to raise some dosh. Wish me luck!"?
Neil: "Kenwright is the majority shareholder in the club, the owner."
I know what you’re saying, but just on a point of fact it’s not as black and white as that even. Kenwright is the nominated front man of a consortium that controls over 50% of the shareholding. And even of the shareholdings within the consortium that are in Bills own name, It is not that transparent if he bought these unconditionally or if his funding is from a third party who has ’terms’ over him that allow them to exercise a level of control. I am still yet to see a satisfactoy explanation for why Spurs Fan Phillip Green jumped on a yaught in the med to hunt down Wyness post the ’call-in’ and resignation. Though I can join dots.
I know what you’re saying, but just on a point of fact it’s not as black and white as that even. Kenwright is the nominated front man of a consortium that controls over 50% of the shareholding. And even of the shareholdings within the consortium that are in Bills own name, It is not that transparent if he bought these unconditionally or if his funding is from a third party who has ’terms’ over him that allow them to exercise a level of control. I am still yet to see a satisfactoy explanation for why Spurs Fan Phillip Green jumped on a yaught in the med to hunt down Wyness post the ’call-in’ and resignation. Though I can join dots.
Good points, Guy. I think it is reasonably clear and well expressed in Christine’s post that Bill is obviously not all his own man in these matters. He is highly dependent on others (Green, Earl, who knows who else) for money.
You are almost certainly right in suggesting that these are the guys who could ’force Bill out’ in some sense. Either (a) presumably by buying Bill out themselves, or (b) by finding another buyer for the whole shebang and allowing them to get their loans repaid and some return on their equity investments (in the case of Earl anyway).
The most likely scenarios are that, if Kirkby goes ahead, they will be pursuing some version of (a) presumably with additional investors, or if Kirkby doesn’t they will force (b). Either way, it is easy to see Bill now as more of a pawn in the game than as a major actor (so to speak...).
You are almost certainly right in suggesting that these are the guys who could ’force Bill out’ in some sense. Either (a) presumably by buying Bill out themselves, or (b) by finding another buyer for the whole shebang and allowing them to get their loans repaid and some return on their equity investments (in the case of Earl anyway).
The most likely scenarios are that, if Kirkby goes ahead, they will be pursuing some version of (a) presumably with additional investors, or if Kirkby doesn’t they will force (b). Either way, it is easy to see Bill now as more of a pawn in the game than as a major actor (so to speak...).
Shall we go around in circles again Neil, Walton Park and the loop site with assistance from Sainsbury?s and Bestway have been mentioned but not investigated thoroughly by the club due to the exclusivity contract. Now given your club line such is unviable!! And you've made up figures as you always have, Christ, last weekend you said Kirkby would cost us £50 million when the rest of the English speaking world knows it to be at least £78 million.
Rich, the £50M I mention is additional borrowings - i.e. the £78M less any money from GP, naming rights and so on. It might be more, it might be less.
On the other sites, we already know that the land will not be free unlike Kirkby; the build costs will probably be higher without Tesco; and the intrinsic difficulty of the builds (certainly at the Loop) will make the sites more expensive than Kirkby.
If you believe nevertheless that there are cheaper new build options for the club in the City of Liverpool than Kirkby, or better partners than Tesco and Knowsley (LCC anyone?) that is fine. It doesn’t seem at all likely to me.
On the other sites, we already know that the land will not be free unlike Kirkby; the build costs will probably be higher without Tesco; and the intrinsic difficulty of the builds (certainly at the Loop) will make the sites more expensive than Kirkby.
If you believe nevertheless that there are cheaper new build options for the club in the City of Liverpool than Kirkby, or better partners than Tesco and Knowsley (LCC anyone?) that is fine. It doesn’t seem at all likely to me.
It hasn't been investigated properly though, Neil, has it? So why throw our historic connection away with the city of Liverpool, where our hard core base of fans are, when people are offering alternatives? And once again Neil you use the word 'probably', it will probably be more expensive, you just don't know do you? Your argument is based on 'probably's and for us to leave this city based on 'probably's is not good enough for me nor should it for you, because we have had crises before and the fans have turned up; they may not if we cut ourselves off from our base.
Sorry folks, I hoped for a sensible debate on tactics to adopt at the forthcoming EGM if Kenwright failed to appear ? not yet another bloody lecture on DK!
How about stop trying to sell half season tickets now, and, if Kenwright had put his hand in his pocket at the end of the season, it would have been a sell out week-in, week-out but Kenwright could not run a pub let alone a great club like Everton.
Sorry Brian, It's just that Neil keeps ramming the Kirkby call-in down our throats and trying to blame No voters for the current predicament, instead of the guy who let him down again. As for the grey haired one turning up!! Well he turned up on Saturday against Blackburn, my bet is he'll turn up again with his smoke and mirrors for the EGM or maybe as has been pointed out Carter being put back in the boardroom maybe that smoke and mirror tactic.
If he doesn't turn up it's blatant that he has something to hide and drastic action by the shareholders is required as us the fans seem to let him off all the time. I think a chant of "shame shame shame" (as he should be ashamed of himself) when he comes to his seat at the next home game should be the tactic used by the fans but I won't hold my breath, we?re just to easy on him. I seem to remember Johnson having fan hanging off his Bently the day Ferguson was sold and Kenwright's "Watch this space" comment was reminiscent of "Evertonians will be pleasantly surprised" comment made by Johnson the night before Howard was reinstalled for the 3rd time.
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1 Posted 23/08/2008 at 16:58:23
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There’s no doubt it’s going to be uncomfortable for him, I know that, you know that and he knows that.
However he really won’t be doing himself any favors if it ducks it and doesn’t attend.....