The Mail Bag
Are we being realistic?
Comments (31)
I wrote a letter last May stating that I couldn't understand the reasoning behind Moyes's and Wyness's statements that players would now come running to us as we were recognized as a potential Top 4 team. In it I stated that top players will run to the existing Top 4, Spurs, Pompey and Man City and possibly Aston Villa before they will come to us for lots of different reasons ? salaries, geography, brand image.
Well, 3 months later, Moyes now realises this and we are in an even worse situation as everyone in Europe knows we've become desperate and are resorting to a situation player-wise that we are having to use 16- to 19-year-old-kids. I'm afraid Moyes will only crack the into the Top 4 with the existing lads plus more "lower quality" gems ? Cahill, Lescott etc.
The longer term problem is trying to find the "magic touch" that means the true "Top Quality" players actually will want to come to Everton. I have no answers to this problem.
Mike Oates, Posted 25/08/2008 at 22:28:42
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Michael Kenrick
Uh? Is this just yet another variation on the perennial "Woe is us!" Theme? And your point exactly???
According to the Daill Mail
Meanwhile, Everton manager David Moyes is closing in on a £2.5million move for Kamil Zayatte from Swiss club BSC Young Boys.
The Guinea defender, 23, was at Goodison Park last night for talks over a switch and Everton have also been told their move for Juventus midfielder Tiago could be back on after he was dropped from the Juve squad for tonight’s Champions League clash against Artmedia Petrzalka.
Any thoughts never even heard of Zayatte, surely we can?t consider Tiago after him snubbing us can we?
Meanwhile, Everton manager David Moyes is closing in on a £2.5million move for Kamil Zayatte from Swiss club BSC Young Boys.
The Guinea defender, 23, was at Goodison Park last night for talks over a switch and Everton have also been told their move for Juventus midfielder Tiago could be back on after he was dropped from the Juve squad for tonight’s Champions League clash against Artmedia Petrzalka.
Any thoughts never even heard of Zayatte, surely we can?t consider Tiago after him snubbing us can we?
Another Defender???
The answer to getting top quality players is either offering them champion?s league football, massive salaries or both. I am sure if we had 40 million to spend and were offering top wages the likes of Arshavin and Moutino would come. The absolute top players are really only going to end up at the top 4 clubs in England at the moment because they are the ones involved in the champions league year in year out and they are the clubs in the strongest financial positions.
Catch 22. It?s almost come to the point where I would like to see any team break the top 4. Of course we did a few years back only to see Liverpool in the Champions League as well, and also blew our chances last season. That way the pool of quality players would spread more across the clubs. Also we?ll see how Liverpool would fair without CL income. But no other club is showing the consistency so far, so it?ll be up to us again! Likely Arsenal would struggle as they?ve lost their midfield and Fabragas not playing. COYB
I can see Arsenal slipping up a few times this year but like you say Jason has anyone got the consistency to beat them to it. The likely contenders although its early days Villa, Spurs and Pompey have don?t look good enough yet, while I don?t think we have anywhere near the squad to compete in Europe and domestically.
We need to sign midfielders not bloody defenders! We have to replace carsley, a creative players and a winger or two. SWP would be a terrific buy but can’t see it happening. Expect to see one or two unknown players to come ion because the big names are not interested in us or if they are we can’t afford them.
There is nothing wrong with aiming one step higher. What other choice do we have? Taking into account all the available "top players" who would want to go to the Top 4, Spurs, Pompey Man City and Aston Villa, there are still many "top players" who will want to sign for us.
The end game is still about identifying the best player for Everton FC, making the approach to the selling club to get an agreement and persuading the player (and most times the player’s agent) that this is a step forward for him.
What about Roque Santa Cruz, Tuncay and Palacios? How did they end up at their respective clubs? I don’t think Moyes is going after Robinho, Messi or Kaka, he is simply trying to improve the squad.
Granted, he took the risk of getting a "no" from either the selling club or player but that is the risk he has to take if he is to sign players that can offer something extra to the squad. The alternative of getting more Kilbanes (no disrespect intended) still does not help anything.
Last point, how is is that Pompey is more attractive than us?
The end game is still about identifying the best player for Everton FC, making the approach to the selling club to get an agreement and persuading the player (and most times the player’s agent) that this is a step forward for him.
What about Roque Santa Cruz, Tuncay and Palacios? How did they end up at their respective clubs? I don’t think Moyes is going after Robinho, Messi or Kaka, he is simply trying to improve the squad.
Granted, he took the risk of getting a "no" from either the selling club or player but that is the risk he has to take if he is to sign players that can offer something extra to the squad. The alternative of getting more Kilbanes (no disrespect intended) still does not help anything.
Last point, how is is that Pompey is more attractive than us?
I hate moaning but now I am really concerned. We are chasing some really shitty, mid-table, average players. You know... the type that nobody else wants.
FFS we have the money so why aren’t we closing out on Moutinho, M’Bia and a bunch of free’s!?
Even when we have the opportunity to nail SWP we open the door for Man City by offering a loan deal!?
FFS what is going on? Vagner Love - loan, Tiago - loan, SWP - loan, Jacobsen - Free, and £9.5m on an over-rated Redshite!!
Something tells me that we haven’t got a penny more than the Johnson money!
FFS we have the money so why aren’t we closing out on Moutinho, M’Bia and a bunch of free’s!?
Even when we have the opportunity to nail SWP we open the door for Man City by offering a loan deal!?
FFS what is going on? Vagner Love - loan, Tiago - loan, SWP - loan, Jacobsen - Free, and £9.5m on an over-rated Redshite!!
Something tells me that we haven’t got a penny more than the Johnson money!
The best way to get quality in is for the existing team to perform well (like we did last season) and paying the money to get the extra quality we need to achieve and maintain a top 4 stay. Had we just had a couple of quality additions last year (e.g. Moutinho and M?Bia) last season I think we?d have finished above the shite in 4th.
Surely the sales we have made (e.g. Faddy and AJ especially) and other wages saved e.g. (Carsley, Stubbs, Gardner, Fernandes) mean we can pay the money to land the likes of Moutinho and M?Bia this week. Just them and a few frees/loans could be enough I think. Especially with a fit Arteta, Cahill, Vaughan and Pienaar to further complement the midfield and attacking strength.
With the squad secured and available as detailed above I am confident the likes of Arsenal and the shite would be realistic targets to usurp this season. I?m praying we get a couple of key quality centre-mids in by deadline day, then I?ll be rubbing my hands at the prospect of how we can perform going forward. The derby day end of September would be a nice day to send a message that Everton are back and mean business... let's get ?em in and then bring on that shower of shite! COYB!
We are rapidly gaining a name for being the biggest cheapsters in Europe
We continually offer several millions below what we know the asking price to be
Make no mistake, Everton are STILL regarded as one of the most famous clubs in Europe, but how do we attract players by offering well below the asking price, or trying to get them on loan ?
What player worth his salt wants to go anywhere on loan ?
I’m all for the club guarding against paying through the nose, but sometimes there is a going rate and you just have to pay it
We continually offer several millions below what we know the asking price to be
Make no mistake, Everton are STILL regarded as one of the most famous clubs in Europe, but how do we attract players by offering well below the asking price, or trying to get them on loan ?
What player worth his salt wants to go anywhere on loan ?
I’m all for the club guarding against paying through the nose, but sometimes there is a going rate and you just have to pay it
Jason Broome, well done, mate ? you are the only one that's sussed it out. I have been saying this for months... we say we go and buy top players and when we get to near the asking price we don't go any further. All this is a cover up between Kenwright and Moyes ? bad cop, good cop syndrome.
Moyes has come out and said "I am to blame", nearly crying and throwing his toys out of the pram at the weekend ? it's all part of the plot: we won't sign any big names, only freebies and perhaps Alan Smith for £4m on Friday night and then Moyes will sign on Saturday night to take the disappointment away.
I can see it coming for weeks: a clever thearatical display, a Kenwright production of the highest quality; he can fool many of the blues but not me.
Exactly Dave, it’s about Everton not putting forward the asking price and having a wage structure in place that isn’t up there with the Newcastles/Spurs (which personally I’m pleased about). We don’t have to pay more than other teams normally, but if you want team’s best players you have to pay (e.g CL reg’s Chelski). because of our desperate situation we’ll end up paying over the odds.
Whilst CL does draw players obviously, so does promise of 1st team football, Undoubtedly what we couldn’t promise Carsley.
Whilst CL does draw players obviously, so does promise of 1st team football, Undoubtedly what we couldn’t promise Carsley.
The loan option can and is favoured by many clubs and players. We’re not the only ones who use the system which allows players to see if they settle in another country and league.
What players worth their salt want to go anywhere on loan? Try the likes of Arteta and Pienaar.
In a strange way i still believe that Everton attract the sort of player i want at the club anyway. And there isn’t anything wrong with Moyes setting his sights high, you just hear more about the players that don’t sign because of media coverage. Barcelona and AC Milan missed out on some top targets this summer. Same situation as us - they tried to bring in a player or two better than they had and clubs are unwilling to part with them.
I believe there is a certain waiting game going on and as we get closer to the deadline you may see clubs like Sporting reconsider their stance if noone else comes in with a higher offer for Moutinho and the player is unsettled.
I hate to say wait and see but that’s just how it is. Next Monday evening we’ll know exactly where we stand.
What players worth their salt want to go anywhere on loan? Try the likes of Arteta and Pienaar.
In a strange way i still believe that Everton attract the sort of player i want at the club anyway. And there isn’t anything wrong with Moyes setting his sights high, you just hear more about the players that don’t sign because of media coverage. Barcelona and AC Milan missed out on some top targets this summer. Same situation as us - they tried to bring in a player or two better than they had and clubs are unwilling to part with them.
I believe there is a certain waiting game going on and as we get closer to the deadline you may see clubs like Sporting reconsider their stance if noone else comes in with a higher offer for Moutinho and the player is unsettled.
I hate to say wait and see but that’s just how it is. Next Monday evening we’ll know exactly where we stand.
Has anyone considered that the reason that we may be going for defenders all of a sudden is the impending departure of Yobo or Lescott to replace Senderos at Arsenal?
Makes me sick thinking of it but at the moment Jags alongside one of them could be considered an adequate centre pairing and it would raise more funds for Moutinho transfer.
Wouldn?t want to be in Bill or Davey?s shoes if something like this did go through though!
Makes me sick thinking of it but at the moment Jags alongside one of them could be considered an adequate centre pairing and it would raise more funds for Moutinho transfer.
Wouldn?t want to be in Bill or Davey?s shoes if something like this did go through though!
We need another centre back because we never replaced Stubb’s departure! Why do people always think that because we buy someone then it must be to replace a current member of the team? Plus, Wenger wont spend the money it would require on Yobo or Lescott as they are both over 20 years old :0)
Neil, I?d rather we moved Lescott into midfield than that happen!
So the likes of Moutinho wont want to come to Everton??? This despite the player himself saying that he’d be happy to move here.
Sounds Mike Oates is right on the money there lol....
The lack of activity is mostly down to our inability or unwillingness to agree fees with the selling clubs. That and Moyes apparently not having the funds he needed early enough in the season.
Sounds Mike Oates is right on the money there lol....
The lack of activity is mostly down to our inability or unwillingness to agree fees with the selling clubs. That and Moyes apparently not having the funds he needed early enough in the season.
Good players on loan?
Try Howard and Yobo as well.
I say fair play to Moyes, his priority has been going for players that would certainly improve our 1st XI. Evidently, for whatever reason, that hasn’t worked.
Now he’s going for players that can fill in for the first choice XI as cover. Maybe this Danish full-back will be better than Hibbo and Neville..... probably not.
The only position where we are absolutely 100% weaker in the starting line-up is the holding midfielder. We don’t have one.
The most worrying aspect of this whole summer, is that Moyes let AJ go and it’s now abundantly clear that he didn’t have an alternative lined up. If we don’t sign a 2nd striker in the next 6 days, we’re one injury to the Yak away from trouble. As much as I want Vic and Vaughan to succeed, they aren’t good enough or are too unlikely to remain fit, to rely upon for any length of time.
Try Howard and Yobo as well.
I say fair play to Moyes, his priority has been going for players that would certainly improve our 1st XI. Evidently, for whatever reason, that hasn’t worked.
Now he’s going for players that can fill in for the first choice XI as cover. Maybe this Danish full-back will be better than Hibbo and Neville..... probably not.
The only position where we are absolutely 100% weaker in the starting line-up is the holding midfielder. We don’t have one.
The most worrying aspect of this whole summer, is that Moyes let AJ go and it’s now abundantly clear that he didn’t have an alternative lined up. If we don’t sign a 2nd striker in the next 6 days, we’re one injury to the Yak away from trouble. As much as I want Vic and Vaughan to succeed, they aren’t good enough or are too unlikely to remain fit, to rely upon for any length of time.
The Premier League have put a limit of two loans per club for this season so that does not precipitate an avalanche of such signings. As ever, Moyes will concentrate on getting in cheap(ish) defenders ?who can do a job? in midfield.
I get the impression that if the window didn?t close until 30th November that?s when we would be doing business. Everton must have saved millions by leaving all real action to the last minute. But better than the alternative of Administration, I think!
I’m all for paying the going rate as Dave Wilson says, but only if we can afford it.
I want Moutinho, but not if it is going to bankrupt us.
Just look at West Ham. They wasted a lot of money on people like Dyer, Neill, Boa Morte, Upson, Bellamy, that French fella Faubert, Solano etc and offered them silly contracts too.
All 7 were on over £60k a week and with Ljungberg on £85k a week that was an annual bill of £26m just for them alone! Only Neill has stayed fit,the rest have either been injured or rubbish and now tey are having to sell Ferdinand ( albeit £8m is ridiculous money as he’s crap ) and Curbishley is saying that he is being forced to make do and can sign nobody but cheapies. They habe let Zamora and Pantsil go along with Solano and Ljungnerg already and brought in a slow right back from Italy. I can see a long Winter ahead for them.
Buyer beware!!!
I want Moutinho, but not if it is going to bankrupt us.
Just look at West Ham. They wasted a lot of money on people like Dyer, Neill, Boa Morte, Upson, Bellamy, that French fella Faubert, Solano etc and offered them silly contracts too.
All 7 were on over £60k a week and with Ljungberg on £85k a week that was an annual bill of £26m just for them alone! Only Neill has stayed fit,the rest have either been injured or rubbish and now tey are having to sell Ferdinand ( albeit £8m is ridiculous money as he’s crap ) and Curbishley is saying that he is being forced to make do and can sign nobody but cheapies. They habe let Zamora and Pantsil go along with Solano and Ljungnerg already and brought in a slow right back from Italy. I can see a long Winter ahead for them.
Buyer beware!!!
Forgot to mention Scott Parker too. Make that a wage bill of £30m a year for only 8 average players. They have become Newcastle MkII.... almost literally with Dyer, Bellamy, Solano and Parker being purchased. Maybe Alan Smith will end up there? ;)
But we already have a new midfielder and his name is Phillip. What with our swanky new right back, that means that Phyllis can now slip into the breach in the holding midfield role and huzzah! we have our problem position solved - great thinking by Moyes that, sign a full back and move Pip into the middle. Smart fella eh.
Now I reckon Rennes will relent and we’ll sign M’Bia as well so then we’ll have too many midfielders, plus Zigic up front to take the number 9 shirt and we have our very own ’New Duncan’ to take up the role of folk hero.
Things are looking up my fellow Evertonians.
(Tongue firmly in cheek)
Now I reckon Rennes will relent and we’ll sign M’Bia as well so then we’ll have too many midfielders, plus Zigic up front to take the number 9 shirt and we have our very own ’New Duncan’ to take up the role of folk hero.
Things are looking up my fellow Evertonians.
(Tongue firmly in cheek)
I wouldn’t say that Behrami is a slow right back. I think he could be a brilliant player, he looked a class above in the Euro’s and I think he would have been a really good buy for us at 5 million instead of bringing in Jacobsen who I haven’t seen play admittedly. He’s good a great engine, good technically and bombs forward from right back unlike Hibbert and Neville!
Hope of signing SWP faded on learning that he is on £60k a week at Chelsea. It would be ludicrous for Everton ? already pleading poverty ? to shell out that kind of money to any player.
I just wish Moyes had been more realistic earlier on and continued his policy of getting the very best players from the lower leagues and honing them to his liking. To me he?s going the same way as Curbishley ? playing Football Manager well beyond the Club?s means!
I wasn’t a fan of Behrami at all in the Euro’s. As for Moyes not having a replacement lined up when he sold AJ I think one of his major frustrations was that he thought he had Wagner Love lined up on a loan with a view to permanent deal only for it to then transpire that the agent had not acted with his clubs consent. That seemed to be the real deal that got Moyes upset.
Who’s to say a game of cat and mouse won’t end up with us doing a deal for Moutinho by the deadline much in the same way the scum may end up getting Barry in a similar manner.
Oh, and would we really want Riera after he’s supposedly only willing to join us if the reds don’t get an offer accepted by Espanyol? I’d still take Alonso off their hands.
Who’s to say a game of cat and mouse won’t end up with us doing a deal for Moutinho by the deadline much in the same way the scum may end up getting Barry in a similar manner.
Oh, and would we really want Riera after he’s supposedly only willing to join us if the reds don’t get an offer accepted by Espanyol? I’d still take Alonso off their hands.
Players with potential tend to go to clubs with ambition and where there is a feel good factor. In May we had both, now we don?t. Nor do players want to leave the pitch with boos ringing in their ears. I don?t blame those who booed, by the way. The jeers were aimed at those who run the club and were, in my opinion entirely justified. Still, it doesn?t help.
I honestly don’t think Riera is as good as he’s being made out to be. He didn’t do enough at Man City for them to want him permanently and we want players who want to wear the shirt with pride, but if we signed him he’d be our record signing on a wedge and he wants to join Liverpool anyway. There was a spokesperson from spain on Sky Sports before and he said that Riera is not the man for Livepool if they want to be challenging for the title. I’m not convinced and think Shaun Wright Phillips would be a better option, but he may want to go back to Man City?
Mibia.... Its been reported in the local newpapers in Newcastle that there about to make a bid for the player we’ve been tracking all summer.
David’s dithering has reached an all time low. He is usually poor this time of year as we have become accustomed to but this defies belief!
The dithering on Moutinho is a disgrace. Had he?d been our player we would hold out for more than the £18m, á la McFadden or Beattie.
If a 21 year old Gerrard or Fabregas were available for £18m that would be a bargain. Moutinho is of equal class and ability, therefore is of equal value. What?s the hold-up?
As for loan signings, only 1 good one last season ? Pienaar. Gravesen, Wessels, Gardner and Fernandes were poor.
Our problem is we still believe that we are the 5th best team in the country. As of right now we’re 10th and losing credibility by the day.
Sorry David but if you were to leave this year, no trophies and this would be your legacy!
The dithering on Moutinho is a disgrace. Had he?d been our player we would hold out for more than the £18m, á la McFadden or Beattie.
If a 21 year old Gerrard or Fabregas were available for £18m that would be a bargain. Moutinho is of equal class and ability, therefore is of equal value. What?s the hold-up?
As for loan signings, only 1 good one last season ? Pienaar. Gravesen, Wessels, Gardner and Fernandes were poor.
Our problem is we still believe that we are the 5th best team in the country. As of right now we’re 10th and losing credibility by the day.
Sorry David but if you were to leave this year, no trophies and this would be your legacy!
Just wondering i seen smith was left out of the Toon squad for tonights game, thinkig could a deal be on the cards?
I think you are right about Alan Smith, M?Bia will go to toon and we will get Big Al.
Neville will be the Carsley role until January and when Moyes realizes that he is shit and cant play there he will replace him but it will be too late then we will be 15th and out of all the competitions, this is a huge wasted opportunity for the club and it must land on one persons head soft shyte Bill.
Neville will be the Carsley role until January and when Moyes realizes that he is shit and cant play there he will replace him but it will be too late then we will be 15th and out of all the competitions, this is a huge wasted opportunity for the club and it must land on one persons head soft shyte Bill.
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