The Mail Bag
Does Moyes do his homework?
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The Herald `exposure` of Tommy Gravesen has come a year too late to save David Moyes from yet another bad signing. As most of us knew from logging on to Scottish websites, Mad Dog had lost the plot within weeks of his joining Celtic from Real Madrid. Moyes seemed oblivious. This follows the debacle we have had to endure over Andy van der Meyde about whom people were ringing bells from the day he signed.
Now perhaps Per Krøldrup came out of another bag because his problems were not with his legs or his balance but very much with his head. In short, he just couldn't!. But these three ? and going back further, the return of Frannie Jeffers ? shows me that our esteemed manager is not quite so switched on with his pre-signing research as he's made out to be.
Of course, if you are doing business `at the death` ? and that's what it's all going to be this time round ? you have to take what's available. A quick look at the agent's video (only the best bits included) and it's "Hey lad, sign here, we've only got two hours till closing time." Absolutely no time for checks on background, character and peculiarities which Nigel Martyn endured before being offered a deal. Needs must.... and by jove, they do this time round!
Which all makes for confusion when you constantly read how thorough our man likes to be. Somehow you think he might have learned from his previous mistakes and been man enough to tell his Chairman a few weeks ago, "I don't want to do press-gang deals at the last minute ? give me the money and give it me now!"
Just makes me think Our Davey ain`t quite all he`s made out to be and that he and Blue Bill piss in the same pot for expediency!
Matt Mason, Posted 27/08/2008 at 16:55:08
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Well Tommy always seemed to be a popular guy in his first stint and Moyes obviously thought he was good enough to work with or he wouldn’t have brought him back. And it was only injury that meant he didn’t contribute more. I liked the quote about "home at Everton".
Of course Moyes does his homework, perhaps too often if there were such a thing. Yes, one or two slip through the net such as our friend Per but he seems right with most as they fit in with the team. Tommy second time round was a cheap gamble.
Of course Moyes does his homework, perhaps too often if there were such a thing. Yes, one or two slip through the net such as our friend Per but he seems right with most as they fit in with the team. Tommy second time round was a cheap gamble.
What a load of crap. You have named 4 players, two of which were on loan and did not end up staying.
Name a manager in the world who doesn’t make the occasional mistake in the transfer market, Benitez signs 4 bad players every window for christ’s sake!
When there are plenty of legitimate things to moan about at the moment, why do people write garbage like this!?
Name a manager in the world who doesn’t make the occasional mistake in the transfer market, Benitez signs 4 bad players every window for christ’s sake!
When there are plenty of legitimate things to moan about at the moment, why do people write garbage like this!?
So I guess you could put Wenger in that catergory with the Jeffers signing and Alex Ferguson has made some gaffs too (Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, Veron etc.)! The fact is that nobody will get it right all the time and you have to be willing to take the odd gamble now and again, like Moyes has done with a lot of players who are now considered to be the best Everton have had in a long time!
Sorry Matt,
I totally agree with greg Doyle what a pointless negative post.
Show me any man who doesnt make mistakes let alone the constraints that DM has to work under.
I totally agree with greg Doyle what a pointless negative post.
Show me any man who doesnt make mistakes let alone the constraints that DM has to work under.
Moyes said he was happy to take the risk of ADVM for £2.5m... oh and about £7m in wages haha
The point that is missed here is the ’scouting system’...do scouts exist and if so why dont they dot the i’s and cross the t’s..Arsene Wenger has an inexhaustable supply of young talent which cost little by todays values..he has brought more flair and natural ability to the premier than any other manager over the past few seasons..Arsenal have been the Harlem trotters of football..Clichy is the best full back in the league and Sagna on the other flank is not far behind..Fabregas, Van Persie, Adebayor and the fantastic Henry and Bergkamp...He has the midas touch for unearthing fresh new talent...If EFC had a system like his we would not be signing the likes of Gravesen who I could tell was way past it...Beattie another total waste of money who was not even a regular in the Southampton side, VDM, Bosnar, Plessis, Nyarko, Pascucci, Vidarson, Ferrari and Kroldrup...what about the forever crocked...?? The ones that have proved themselves like Cahill and Lescott do not offset the money that has been wasted on the others...even loan players have to be paid...we had Ferguson, Cambell and Weir on the books too long...I reckon we have dithered and dallyed much more than any other club and have done far better than ever expected..What galls me however, is the total lack of follow up this season..we’ve hesitated and stalled and Im afraid missed the boat.
Why do some people call him Davey the Ditherer then if he doesn’t do his homework?
Crap pointless post I’m afraid.
Crap pointless post I’m afraid.
We apparently had first refusal on taking Tommy back from Madrid in 06 but declined due to a lack of funds - seems like we had a lucky escape. He was only brought back last season as emergency cover.
Thanks for the memories, particularly Aug - Dec 04, anyway Mad Dog!
Thanks for the memories, particularly Aug - Dec 04, anyway Mad Dog!
Wahey another one. Official Site has us signing Castillo and he plays in Midfield. I though he might have been a ’keeper
A good few clubs have looked at him, supposed to be a very good player! (castillo)
Trevor Lynes
David Moyes never bought alex nyarko or Pascucci
David Moyes never bought alex nyarko or Pascucci
Couldn’t disagree more with the tone and content of this piece.
Sorry Matt, all about opinion sure but on this occasion I feel you are being a little harsh.
Jeffers and Graveson were signings made whilst in a straw factory with Kenny Everett "Brotherly love" style hands. Jeffers was a no risk gamble and Graveson a signing on the back of Manny doing one - makes me wonder if the money was ever there for both Manny and the Yak.
Koldrup just couldnt handle the rough n tumble of our "great" league.
Every manager has their hits and misses. Wenger signed Jeffers and Madrid signed Graveson. Neither player had the talent and application to get past their own ego. Yet look at who signed them - its an absolute joke that either player has our team on their CV let alone those who took them off our hands!
Moyes is like a jedi when it comes to off loading players. To get 10 mill (ish) for Jeffers and more than our money back on Graveson smacks of genius to me.
TG was over rated in his first spell at Goodison - no amount of badge kissing, crowd pleasing antics ever hid the fact, to me, that he was a headless chicken who always seemed to be where the ball had just been! Played in a five he looked ok, in four - woeful. Compared to Tim Cahill, who some would accuse of the same, TC has more output, more work rate and more talent.
Moyes made profits on Kilbane, McFadden, Bent, Graveson, Jeffers and made decent returns on Rads, Davies and Kroldrup.
Compare his record to their lot across the park in the transfer market and its more than favourable.
The fact that people think Graveson is a loon matters not a jot - fact is he is/was garbage - to walk away with 1.2 mill suggests he may be smarter than we think!
Sorry Matt, all about opinion sure but on this occasion I feel you are being a little harsh.
Jeffers and Graveson were signings made whilst in a straw factory with Kenny Everett "Brotherly love" style hands. Jeffers was a no risk gamble and Graveson a signing on the back of Manny doing one - makes me wonder if the money was ever there for both Manny and the Yak.
Koldrup just couldnt handle the rough n tumble of our "great" league.
Every manager has their hits and misses. Wenger signed Jeffers and Madrid signed Graveson. Neither player had the talent and application to get past their own ego. Yet look at who signed them - its an absolute joke that either player has our team on their CV let alone those who took them off our hands!
Moyes is like a jedi when it comes to off loading players. To get 10 mill (ish) for Jeffers and more than our money back on Graveson smacks of genius to me.
TG was over rated in his first spell at Goodison - no amount of badge kissing, crowd pleasing antics ever hid the fact, to me, that he was a headless chicken who always seemed to be where the ball had just been! Played in a five he looked ok, in four - woeful. Compared to Tim Cahill, who some would accuse of the same, TC has more output, more work rate and more talent.
Moyes made profits on Kilbane, McFadden, Bent, Graveson, Jeffers and made decent returns on Rads, Davies and Kroldrup.
Compare his record to their lot across the park in the transfer market and its more than favourable.
The fact that people think Graveson is a loon matters not a jot - fact is he is/was garbage - to walk away with 1.2 mill suggests he may be smarter than we think!
So re-assuring to know we are in such safe hands and all these frees and loans we’re signing are such stars that nobody wants to buy them.
Just so hope you are all saying Moyes is so wonderful come Christmas!
Just so hope you are all saying Moyes is so wonderful come Christmas!
Trevor Lynes:
Denis Bergkamp was signed for Arsenal by that King of Flair, Bruce Rioch. Just thought you should know.:)
However, I agree about Wenger?s ability to ?bring a player on? even if he is a cheating toad who ?did not see eet? when one of his players does wrong.
Denis Bergkamp was signed for Arsenal by that King of Flair, Bruce Rioch. Just thought you should know.:)
However, I agree about Wenger?s ability to ?bring a player on? even if he is a cheating toad who ?did not see eet? when one of his players does wrong.
Its sad to see the fall from grace of TG, I for one defended the decision to bring him back to Goodison as I thought that his experience with Madrid and Celtic would have actually made him a better player. Alas it was not to be and apart from some cameo performances he never got over his injuries and lack of match fitness.
But he was never crap when he was initially with the club, with Carsley at his side it was an effective combination. Somewhere along the way, age, attitude and fitness have turned him from a good player into a bad one.
But as a club we had a lot to thank him for, so Good Luck to you, Tommy, wherever you go or whatever you do in life.
But he was never crap when he was initially with the club, with Carsley at his side it was an effective combination. Somewhere along the way, age, attitude and fitness have turned him from a good player into a bad one.
But as a club we had a lot to thank him for, so Good Luck to you, Tommy, wherever you go or whatever you do in life.
I disagree with the post & very much agree with the ’rebuffers’ I also disagree with Christine above. He was effective for about 3/4 months in his final season as the point of a 5 man midfield.
For the 3 years before that he was garbage, I remember him playing centre half one game then upfront about 3 months later, it didnt matter whether he was centre of right mid he was shite 9 times out of 10 under Walter Smith, but he wasnt alone in that!!
For the 3 years before that he was garbage, I remember him playing centre half one game then upfront about 3 months later, it didnt matter whether he was centre of right mid he was shite 9 times out of 10 under Walter Smith, but he wasnt alone in that!!
John
yes, I remember that, but I tend to agree that under Walter it was hard to pick a winner let alone anyone who performed on a regular basis. But he did find his niche in that 5 man midfield, but I agree in hindsight (wonderful thing) it didn’t work out coming back (never does though does it? Jeffers?)
yes, I remember that, but I tend to agree that under Walter it was hard to pick a winner let alone anyone who performed on a regular basis. But he did find his niche in that 5 man midfield, but I agree in hindsight (wonderful thing) it didn’t work out coming back (never does though does it? Jeffers?)
John Lloyd, couldn't agree more. People forget that TG couldn't get a game for us for over 2 years. Why ? Because he was absolutely crap!! As Andy Lea said, he always seemed to be where the ball had just been. He gave us a couple of decent months when DM told him to get out of the way and just stay in the other half. It's all about opinions but I, like many others, could never take to the man as a player and to bring him back when Celtic no longer wanted him... Enough said!!
I'm just catalogueing some of the stupid deals we have done not laying all the blame on anyone in particular. Lots of people were against the signing of Beattie as he was no more than an infrequent starter at Southampton and they were relegated. DG was past it to every fan... how not to DM?? Don't criticise managers for stcking up for their players they all do it including us. Some of Duncs deeds were indefensible. There is not a manager in the league who hasn?t pretended not to see things!! My point is the obvious lack of a decent scouting system at EFC and I would like to know why?? I played the game at a decent semi pro level against guys who went on to become great players... anyone who has played can spot a good one. We need scouts to help DM and stop panic buys, loans and freebies... Where is the QUALITY we are promised???
What a ridiculous post. Matt, did he fuck up on his homework for Arteta, Lescott, Yobo, Howard Jags, Yak, Piernaar, Cahill, etc.? So he has made a few mistakes, who hasn?t?
Complete rubbish this post. Moyes clearly had done his homework on the sigingings he wanted but the board failed to deliver them. (which is clearly why his contract goes unsigned). Of the players mentioned only Krøldrup was a real choice for the manager the rest were late buys or loans.
The manager who has bought us Cahill and Arteta for £4.5m the pair, a 20-goal-a-season striker for £12.5m three international class center halves each costing less than £5m, should not be critisised for his recruitment. Even AF has bought less wisely than Moyes ? Veron for example. In future, think before you post!
Or maybe, just maybe Matt, these players have been well looked over by Moyes beforehand. Its just that he was after better players and he’s not been able to get them in. Having run out of time and yes, failing dismally to get any of his main targets, Moyes is trying to bolster numbers with free transfers and loan deals to presumably (and hopefully) keep the money for the players he really wants.
Trevor Lynes,
When were we promised anything??? I dont remember any promises, apart from the Management will do their best.
Let me run through a scenario:
Moyes only focuses on his top targets, thinking that we will be appealing enough for them to join. Obviously, we have failed to land a top player due to lack of funds, player not interested etc. So he then publicly declares he has to rethink his transfer strategy (i,e of only brinigng in top quality players). All of a sudden, we sign one, and are strongly linked with a few others (within days of announcing his transfer strategy re-think).
To me, it seems pretty clear there has been a contingency plan of bringing in these names in the event of the top players not coming in. And again, it seems pretty clear to me why he is bringing them in on loan, or short term deals. They are not players who are going to take us to the next level, so why tie them into long contracts? They may be adequate for consolidating, but maybe not for kicking on to the next level. Now come January, there maybe a lot of unsettled players that clubs have on their books. They have made it clear they want a move, so the seller is in a position where he is paying wages to a player who is not interested. That seems to put the buyer in control? I am no expert, but it doesnt seem unreasonable.
But to be balanced, the issue with Moyes not signing a contract is having a big influence here I think. It must be hard to attract a top player to sign a contract, when you havent done so yourself!! It is imperative that Moyes signs, and I hope that this is brought up in the EGM as a subject more than ’why havet we signed any top players?’.
As to the current team, we have scored 4 and conceded 4. I am happy we are scoring, but obviously concerned about the leaky defence. But our defence really is the best outside the top four by a clear margin, so I am 100% sure we will find our defensive ability again quickly. Lets just hope the goals keep going in.
When were we promised anything??? I dont remember any promises, apart from the Management will do their best.
Let me run through a scenario:
Moyes only focuses on his top targets, thinking that we will be appealing enough for them to join. Obviously, we have failed to land a top player due to lack of funds, player not interested etc. So he then publicly declares he has to rethink his transfer strategy (i,e of only brinigng in top quality players). All of a sudden, we sign one, and are strongly linked with a few others (within days of announcing his transfer strategy re-think).
To me, it seems pretty clear there has been a contingency plan of bringing in these names in the event of the top players not coming in. And again, it seems pretty clear to me why he is bringing them in on loan, or short term deals. They are not players who are going to take us to the next level, so why tie them into long contracts? They may be adequate for consolidating, but maybe not for kicking on to the next level. Now come January, there maybe a lot of unsettled players that clubs have on their books. They have made it clear they want a move, so the seller is in a position where he is paying wages to a player who is not interested. That seems to put the buyer in control? I am no expert, but it doesnt seem unreasonable.
But to be balanced, the issue with Moyes not signing a contract is having a big influence here I think. It must be hard to attract a top player to sign a contract, when you havent done so yourself!! It is imperative that Moyes signs, and I hope that this is brought up in the EGM as a subject more than ’why havet we signed any top players?’.
As to the current team, we have scored 4 and conceded 4. I am happy we are scoring, but obviously concerned about the leaky defence. But our defence really is the best outside the top four by a clear margin, so I am 100% sure we will find our defensive ability again quickly. Lets just hope the goals keep going in.
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1 Posted 27/08/2008 at 18:24:38
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