The Mail Bag
The Point of thinking 'Big'
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The situation at Manchester City, to go with the previous seeming inevitability of the top four, got me thinking... what exactly is the point of an existence of clubs such as Everton, along with the likes of Newcastle, Villa and West Ham??? Simply Premier League mainstays who can be no more.
I, along with all Evertonians, have been glued to the rumblings of the previous transfer window, getting (perhaps unwisely) excited by the likes of Moutinho, M'bia, Love et al.... but I have over the last 24/48 hours become disillusioned by the absolute insurmountable gap that seems to be in front of us and actually win anything.
With or without Felliani or Saha, it seems impossible for us to actually succeed in a sporting sense; even the most ambitious and optimistic of fans must realise that a spend of £30m in a close season will never touch the sides now City are racing ahead with. I can understand our Board, along with other Premier League clubs, refusing to sanction such funds as the Felliani fee because it is clear that such expenditure will not bring success in the current climate.
If the best we can hope for is now sixth out of twenty teams (perhaps not this year, but next), why should the Board raise funds? Surely to come sixth place in a sport is nothing to be proud of (look at the Olympics) and if that's the best that any of us can hope for then seemingly the sport of professional football is sadly dead.
Robert Pierpoint, Posted 02/09/2008 at 19:25:47
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So Dr Sulaiman and his group appear to have made Manchester City the richest club in the world. He is not a lifelong fan and has never even see them play. This begs the obvious question. Why City and not us?
Bill Kenwright recently suggested that he is finding it hard to get investors to buy Everton due to us having Liverpool as our neigbours ? really? Well Man City have the current European Champions sharing the same city... so something doesn't quite add up there, Bill.
Also, we are told that the state of our stadium is off-putting to potential investors. Sorry, but if you have more than a couple of billion in the bank then forking out £450 million on a world class stadium is a hardly going to cause a dent in the bank balance.
For somebody who is searching 24/7 for new investment, how on earth did Bill manage to miss asking one of the richest men in the world? Maybe I am just being too cynical?
Lets just wait and see if big bucks and superstar players wins them the games first.
Or if they fail in the A$$.. lol
I do wonder if clubs spending so much dosh and getting no return is such a wise move.
Or if they fail in the A$$.. lol
I do wonder if clubs spending so much dosh and getting no return is such a wise move.
Like Mike Coates says: let’s wait for what happens exactly at Man City.
City have everything in place for a huge investor to start playing with his toy in modern surroundings straight away. 48 000 seats with clear sightlines & lots of space for comfortably entertaining a huge variety of customers.
Everton have a decent team but are at least 3 years away from a new home capable of supporting a CL team. We only have 34 - 36 000 seats that compare with City’s and far smaller facilities for a rich owner to entertain his friends. Investors coming from glittering modern cities are hardly likely to want to spend an afternoon in a cramped 40 - 50 year old stadium.
Perhaps there are investors who are interested in buying at a low price and waiting for a return, but they would want to know how long that wait will be. At the moment we have no idea:
1) Kirkby might not happen
2) Goodison redevelopment is subject to all sorts of delays and difficulties - land purchase, planning permission, moving the pitch.
3) Another site??? It takes 2 years to find and arrange before you start building
4) Groundshare? Still an idea with lots of sense in it if fans can be brought round and 50% equity can be found.
If Kirkby goes ahead we will know where we will be in 2011 & investment is more likely. The group that bought City were looking round at the same time Kirkby was called in and suddenly made a deal with City after it was called in (when Shinawatra suddenly decided to sell). Who is to say they didn’t have their eyes on Everton?
Everton have a decent team but are at least 3 years away from a new home capable of supporting a CL team. We only have 34 - 36 000 seats that compare with City’s and far smaller facilities for a rich owner to entertain his friends. Investors coming from glittering modern cities are hardly likely to want to spend an afternoon in a cramped 40 - 50 year old stadium.
Perhaps there are investors who are interested in buying at a low price and waiting for a return, but they would want to know how long that wait will be. At the moment we have no idea:
1) Kirkby might not happen
2) Goodison redevelopment is subject to all sorts of delays and difficulties - land purchase, planning permission, moving the pitch.
3) Another site??? It takes 2 years to find and arrange before you start building
4) Groundshare? Still an idea with lots of sense in it if fans can be brought round and 50% equity can be found.
If Kirkby goes ahead we will know where we will be in 2011 & investment is more likely. The group that bought City were looking round at the same time Kirkby was called in and suddenly made a deal with City after it was called in (when Shinawatra suddenly decided to sell). Who is to say they didn’t have their eyes on Everton?
I like the fans of Man Utd, Chelsea and Real Madrid (I am working with one this week) who say it is not good for them to be able to pay £130m for Ronaldo and it is not a level playing field........I nearly fell off my fucking chair....
Can the Glazers buy us? ..... It must be awful to have US owners who pay for Nani, Anderson, Carrick, Tevez, Vidic, Berbatov........ and we get Fellacio and Nash....
Can the Glazers buy us? ..... It must be awful to have US owners who pay for Nani, Anderson, Carrick, Tevez, Vidic, Berbatov........ and we get Fellacio and Nash....
Let's be honest, people are not investing in Man City or Chelsea for a return ? those guys are doing it for pleasure....
You can spin it anyway you want, but the current situation with 6 wealthy clubs is not healthy for the game! Unless of course your just interested in seeing English clubs full of foreigeners win the Champions League.
I really don?t think the owners of Manchester City view their purchase as an investment.
As I understand it the owner is personally worth 14bn and his family has access to a Trillion dollar fortune! Even after spending £200million on Man City and £34million on Robinho they still probably turned a profit for the day.
From interviews I?ve listened to on the radio it seems they wanted a challenge (ruling out Arsenal & Liverpool) and are prepared to tip as much money as is neccessary into the club to make sure it wins trophies and becomes regarded as the biggest and best in the world.
It?s a matter of prestige not profit for this particular set of arabs.
So why City and not us, Newcastle or an other?
I suspect it has everything to do with Shinawatra living up to his word by putting the club up for sale and actively seeking appropriate ?investors? when he realised his personal finances were no longer sufficient to keep City afloat.
It?s only speculation of course, but if BK had really been doing the same thing Shinawatra was doing (as he told us he was) then perhaps Robinho would be lining up against Stoke a week on Saturday. We?ll never know.
Then again maybe it?s a little unfair to expect an ex-Coronation Street actor to have the same international connections as the ex-Prime Minister of Thailand.
As I understand it the owner is personally worth 14bn and his family has access to a Trillion dollar fortune! Even after spending £200million on Man City and £34million on Robinho they still probably turned a profit for the day.
From interviews I?ve listened to on the radio it seems they wanted a challenge (ruling out Arsenal & Liverpool) and are prepared to tip as much money as is neccessary into the club to make sure it wins trophies and becomes regarded as the biggest and best in the world.
It?s a matter of prestige not profit for this particular set of arabs.
So why City and not us, Newcastle or an other?
I suspect it has everything to do with Shinawatra living up to his word by putting the club up for sale and actively seeking appropriate ?investors? when he realised his personal finances were no longer sufficient to keep City afloat.
It?s only speculation of course, but if BK had really been doing the same thing Shinawatra was doing (as he told us he was) then perhaps Robinho would be lining up against Stoke a week on Saturday. We?ll never know.
Then again maybe it?s a little unfair to expect an ex-Coronation Street actor to have the same international connections as the ex-Prime Minister of Thailand.
Apparantely, Man City gave Real Madrid a blanco cheque for the services of Van Nistelrooy, only to be denied. They also informed about De la Red and Saviola before they bought Robinho. They bid for Huntelaar from Ajax. All this according to the Dutch press.
What’s my point? Man City is trying to buy good players regardless of the actual needs and regardless of these players can gel together to be a real team. They’re just throwing money around to buy whatever name is the current hottie of the week. That won’t buy them any prices soon. I can see them implode after two years of buying and buying without thinking of what they really need.
Poor Mark Hughes, he’ll get the sack for sure.
What’s my point? Man City is trying to buy good players regardless of the actual needs and regardless of these players can gel together to be a real team. They’re just throwing money around to buy whatever name is the current hottie of the week. That won’t buy them any prices soon. I can see them implode after two years of buying and buying without thinking of what they really need.
Poor Mark Hughes, he’ll get the sack for sure.
Albert - I would rather have an ex Cornation Street actor at the helm than an ex Prime Minister who is facing corruption charges.
With regard to Man City - I can understand many Evertonians feeling envious.Personally I think it’s a case of time will tell if the mega investment at Eastlands brings the odd trophy or two. Money doesn’t guarantee success. As the old saying goes " Money easily acquired is often easily squandered". I seem to recall a couple of years ago West Ham had new " Mega Bucks" owners and a host of new signings followed - but no trophies. And by the looks of things they have pulled the plug on the new signings and are tightening the purse strings. Sooner or later reality will kick in and the financial bubble will burst for some of these clubs who have spent money right left and centre. In the long term we may be glad of the fact that we haven’t been taken over by a " here today gone tomorrow foreign sugar daddy".
With regard to Man City - I can understand many Evertonians feeling envious.Personally I think it’s a case of time will tell if the mega investment at Eastlands brings the odd trophy or two. Money doesn’t guarantee success. As the old saying goes " Money easily acquired is often easily squandered". I seem to recall a couple of years ago West Ham had new " Mega Bucks" owners and a host of new signings followed - but no trophies. And by the looks of things they have pulled the plug on the new signings and are tightening the purse strings. Sooner or later reality will kick in and the financial bubble will burst for some of these clubs who have spent money right left and centre. In the long term we may be glad of the fact that we haven’t been taken over by a " here today gone tomorrow foreign sugar daddy".
Erik, I agree with the point you make about buying players regardless of need. It seems to me that what is being assembled at City is an exibition team, a bit like footballs version of the Harlem Globetrotters.
A collection of gifted individuals does not always make a good team. Time will tell
A collection of gifted individuals does not always make a good team. Time will tell
Unless Man City fail in a spectacular fashion or the Abu Dhabi United Group lose interest and sell them at a knockdown price then I think that we have seen a major power shift equivalent to Chelsea under Roman Abramovich. There will be some people who will say that if we had a new stadium then we could have been the subject of this buy out but don’t fall for that !! This investment group would not have waited for so long and would they really have wanted a stadium tied into a Tesco retail park ? Tesco are small fry compared to these investors !! Now if we were currently playing at King’s Dock it could all be so different. Thanks Bill for fucking up that ’deal of the century’. Do we honestly believer that Bill and his cronies could have negotiated a deal with a major investment group ? Thaksin Shinawatra has contacts that Bill could only dream about - no, Bill, any dream will (not) do........
I think I agree about the Stadium tied to Tesco Richard. If these people can be talking about chucking 100 mil plus at one player (Ronaldo speculation today) surely if they were interested in Everton 100 mil plus to redevelop Goodison would represent better business....All speculation I know but I thought silly season was over for now!!
If big money is now in place for the SKY 4, plus Villa and City the Blues now face a situation where finding and getting players is now even more difficult (if it was ever easy).
With a bit of luck the "Galactacos Experiment" at City will fail, just like at Real Madrid, but that will not help the Blues progress.
The BIG question is how did City find TWO major investors in 14mths, yet BK has been looking for years and not been able to find one.
This is despite the Blues being more successful, having a similar sized loyal fanbase, owning their own ground, and have not endured any of their turmoil.
The Americans have landed at Utd, Villa, and across the Park. The Eastern Europeans have invaded Chelski and Pompey. The Arabs have now invaded Eastlands. All parts of the financial globe have become active in the Premier League whilst BK has been looking for investment.
The question is "Where has BK been looking??"
With a bit of luck the "Galactacos Experiment" at City will fail, just like at Real Madrid, but that will not help the Blues progress.
The BIG question is how did City find TWO major investors in 14mths, yet BK has been looking for years and not been able to find one.
This is despite the Blues being more successful, having a similar sized loyal fanbase, owning their own ground, and have not endured any of their turmoil.
The Americans have landed at Utd, Villa, and across the Park. The Eastern Europeans have invaded Chelski and Pompey. The Arabs have now invaded Eastlands. All parts of the financial globe have become active in the Premier League whilst BK has been looking for investment.
The question is "Where has BK been looking??"
I still believe that the stadium issue is a major detraction to any investor. It is easy to say that £450m is nothing to these people. They are still businessmen and it is an expense they don?t have to bear if a stadium is in place.
Not only that, as we know only too well, there is emotive site issues, resident objection issues and potential government call ins to contend with. These things take years. Who needs all that hassle when you can go to City or Newcastle who have quality stadiums in place and just start chucking your dough about?
Fans do not care whether the players that win the trophies for their teams are British or foreign. If we had Henry, Bergkamp, Ronaldo, Fabregas we would be drooling in the same way all the others do... Let's face it, our best playmaker Arteta is foreign as is Yak, Pienaar, Cahill... and now Fellaini etc etc...
Robert,
the answer to your question...
"If the best we can hope for is now sixth out of twenty teams (perhaps not this year, but next), why should the Board raise funds?"
because the more funds you raise for the manager to spend, if spent wisely, the more chance you then have of finishing in the top 4 and qualifying for the Champions League. If a team like the shite dropped out of the Champions League their transfer funds the following season would be seriously dented whilst ours (if we qualified for the group stages) would increase and help level the playing field for future seasons, thus increasing our chances of qualifying again.
We finished 5th last season, we were 4th until injuries kicked in and our small squad was exposed in the final months. With a bigger squad we may have held onto 4th, that’s why we should have spent big this summer.
the answer to your question...
"If the best we can hope for is now sixth out of twenty teams (perhaps not this year, but next), why should the Board raise funds?"
because the more funds you raise for the manager to spend, if spent wisely, the more chance you then have of finishing in the top 4 and qualifying for the Champions League. If a team like the shite dropped out of the Champions League their transfer funds the following season would be seriously dented whilst ours (if we qualified for the group stages) would increase and help level the playing field for future seasons, thus increasing our chances of qualifying again.
We finished 5th last season, we were 4th until injuries kicked in and our small squad was exposed in the final months. With a bigger squad we may have held onto 4th, that’s why we should have spent big this summer.
I think you are probably right Christian. A bit of wishful thinking on my part I reckon, just the idea that you could even be thinking to spend 100 mil plus on one player boggles the mind especially when you look at our situation and given that people keep mentioning the costs of Kings Dock would have been a relatively sane 30 mil!
I think were all slightly missing the point here, with the power shift at Man City, adding to the Sky 4, Villa, Spurs etc the premier league is now the league to be in. How many players are now saying its there dream to play in the PL not so much the Champions League now.
Make no mistake these players want the money not the big european nights, whilst a disaster for the national team this means that all the best players now want to be in the PL. If they can’t get a contract at the better clubs why not advertise themselves at the likes of Newcastle, Everton, Sunderland, Pompey etc.
Don’t get me wrong morally it seems so wrong but this is where we are, at the end of the day though each team can only field 11 players, they are not superhuman and will always be subject the funny old game of football.
My prediction is that just like the CL has become in many ways a greater spectacle than the international tournaments, so the PL will become the most prestigious football competition in the world, and all the best players will be here, hopefully some at Everton!
Make no mistake these players want the money not the big european nights, whilst a disaster for the national team this means that all the best players now want to be in the PL. If they can’t get a contract at the better clubs why not advertise themselves at the likes of Newcastle, Everton, Sunderland, Pompey etc.
Don’t get me wrong morally it seems so wrong but this is where we are, at the end of the day though each team can only field 11 players, they are not superhuman and will always be subject the funny old game of football.
My prediction is that just like the CL has become in many ways a greater spectacle than the international tournaments, so the PL will become the most prestigious football competition in the world, and all the best players will be here, hopefully some at Everton!
I disagree on not caring whether the side is full of foreign players or not!! Of course I want good players in the team, no matter what their nationality. But I also remember the pride I felt in being an Everton supporter during the 86 world cup. We had Peter Reid, Trever and Gary Stevens, Gary Linneker, (am I missing anyone) all in the England team. If it hadn?t been for the so called "hand of God " goal, who knows what could have happened back then.
From the press today it appears the City takeover was brokered by the the same advisor to the DIC in its’ pursuit of our red neighbours. Is it possible potential investors are being ’put off’ investing in Everton to protect the LFC ’franchise’?
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1 Posted 03/09/2008 at 05:23:02
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Personally I don’t see where the problem is. If you don’t have the dosh, please don’t come here begging and embrassing yourself. The Premier League is what it is: THE PREMIER league, for the Elite clubs. Free, open capitalist market. This is what it was bloody conceived for! The clubs voted for this, including ours!
And this crap from hearing some fans begging for scraps from the Man City table. Please, grow a backbone.
The only way forward is an aggressive takeover from some mega rich ’investor’. End of.