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Why was Obinna turned down?
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As a longtime Evertonian ? I was at Maine Road in 1958 to see Nobby Fielding beat Bert Trautman on Bobbie Collins's debut, to give us our first win that season ? now living in Canada, I would like to know why Obinna was turned down.
From what I have read, he has lived and worked in Italy - an EU country- for 3 years. He played for Chievo Verona from 2005 to 2008 and helped them get promoted to the top division. He was transferred to Inter Milan last week and they wanted to loan him out to Everton ? located in another EU country. He was refused a work permit despite the fact he was coming from another EU country. I thought if you were accepted into an EU country (Italy) and given a work permit, you could move freely around to find work in any of the EU countries?
Meanwhile, Ignacio Gonzales, a Uruguayan, who lived in Uruguay until a couple of weeks ago, was signed by Valencia of Spain (another EU country) who immediately sent him out on loan to Newcastle. The guy has only been in the EU for a week or so and has no problem getting a work permit to work in the UK.
Could someone kindly explain why a guy from Uruguay can spend the proverbial "10 minutes" in Spain and come and work in the UK whilst a guy who has lived and worked in Italy for 3 years cannot work in the UK?
John Horan, Posted 02/09/2008 at 19:26:08
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No idea myself John. Maybe Obinna didn’t play the required quota of (senior) internationals? Baffled myself, especially if he could ’work’ in Italy. Blame Gordon Brown I suppose.
I think he needs to participate in 75% of the senior national team games in the last 2 years. And being only 21 I guess that was not the case. What shit.
John - I totally agree and I personally doubt whether the Home Office would have refused a work permit had it been Man Utd or Chelsea or indeed Liverpool that had been involved.
i think we have been dealt a very poor hand by the authorities ( both at gov’t and sporting levels) in the last couple or so weeks. I am still trying to work out how as the highest placed English club and given our record in the UEFA Cup last season we have such a hard draw in the UEFA 1st Round. It’s far harder than last season and takes no account of how far we progressed in Last Season’s competition. Look at the likes of Portsmouth and Man City and we get a team that qualified for the Champions League !!
i think we have been dealt a very poor hand by the authorities ( both at gov’t and sporting levels) in the last couple or so weeks. I am still trying to work out how as the highest placed English club and given our record in the UEFA Cup last season we have such a hard draw in the UEFA 1st Round. It’s far harder than last season and takes no account of how far we progressed in Last Season’s competition. Look at the likes of Portsmouth and Man City and we get a team that qualified for the Champions League !!
Matthew is spot on... although sometimes they compensate like Denilson of arsenal?
he had a bright future their for he was accepted so i myself was shocked when his permit was rejected
he had a bright future their for he was accepted so i myself was shocked when his permit was rejected
Haven’t Liverpool just signed an 18yo Brazilian who has yet to have been capped for his country? just breezed through his Work Permit
Basically, you?re wrong. If you are a non-EU National and receive a work permit for a European Country, your rights only extend throughout that country.
Obinna could not move freely throughout the EU, unless he had applied for Italian Citizenship, which would in turn, have made him an EU Citizen and he could have moved about freely.
He could only have achieved this after 4 years in Italy. As he had only been there 3 years, this was not an option.
This still does not explain Mike Fisher?s point about Liverpool?s success in securing a permit for an even lesser known player.
One rule for them..........
Obinna could not move freely throughout the EU, unless he had applied for Italian Citizenship, which would in turn, have made him an EU Citizen and he could have moved about freely.
He could only have achieved this after 4 years in Italy. As he had only been there 3 years, this was not an option.
This still does not explain Mike Fisher?s point about Liverpool?s success in securing a permit for an even lesser known player.
One rule for them..........
the liverpool player had a european passport so was allowed in no problem.
Would it have been such a good idea to have some who would have influenced the team greatly, with imputous and guile, only for him to deffo move on after one season? It wasn’t a view to buy situation...
I used to work at a college international department, frequently dealing with visa applications. Three things I can tell you:
1. It is notoriously difficult to get visas from Nigeria, due to its, ahem, unstable political situation AND widespread forgery.
2. Although Obinna has been in Italy for 3 years, I believe to qualify for an Italian passport, he would have to have been resident for five years.
3. Spain (and Belgium) are the soft touches passport-wise in the EU. The Spanish let anyone in, and you can qualify for Spanish nationality after just two years. Hence Arsenal sent Carlos Vela to Spain for two years after signing him from Mexico. Hence we did the same thing with Anderson Silva (apparently).
It still seems harsh that we didn’t get Obinna though. I don’t know how Arsenal secured Denílson.
1. It is notoriously difficult to get visas from Nigeria, due to its, ahem, unstable political situation AND widespread forgery.
2. Although Obinna has been in Italy for 3 years, I believe to qualify for an Italian passport, he would have to have been resident for five years.
3. Spain (and Belgium) are the soft touches passport-wise in the EU. The Spanish let anyone in, and you can qualify for Spanish nationality after just two years. Hence Arsenal sent Carlos Vela to Spain for two years after signing him from Mexico. Hence we did the same thing with Anderson Silva (apparently).
It still seems harsh that we didn’t get Obinna though. I don’t know how Arsenal secured Denílson.
Nick, according to this article:
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12874_4065163,00.html
there was an option to buy Obinna outright after the season long loan which mkes his failed application an even greater pity.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12874_4065163,00.html
there was an option to buy Obinna outright after the season long loan which mkes his failed application an even greater pity.
It's pretty simple really, we are not on the the big four...... you all know if it was Man U after him, he would have been here.
"I think he needs to participate in 75% of the senior national team games in the last 2 years. And being only 21 I guess that was not the case. What shit. "
That?s the automatic qualification - meet it and you get in whatever.
If you don?t meet it, then you get an appeal where you get to argue that?s he good enough (now, not as a prospect) to get a permit.
Thing is, unlike Denilson, we wanted to loan Obinna to see if he was any good in the Premier League. That probably did us in - if we aren?t sure he?s good enough, why should the Home Office be?
It?s a pretty bad system, but it?s pretty difficult to argue that as the system stands, Obinna should have got a work permit. But a system where you can ge a work permit by playing 75% of games for, say, Honduras, but not for playing 50% of games for Nigeria is clearly a pretty flawed one.
Just as random points, Spain is only a soft touch for Latin American countries, who get special treatment. Et?oo had to play in Spain for 10 years before he got a passport!
Also, Liverpool were refused a work permit for Mark Gonzalez. He went off to play in Spain for 2 years, got his work permit, came back, and left again after half a season. So big 4 clubs do miss out too.
That?s the automatic qualification - meet it and you get in whatever.
If you don?t meet it, then you get an appeal where you get to argue that?s he good enough (now, not as a prospect) to get a permit.
Thing is, unlike Denilson, we wanted to loan Obinna to see if he was any good in the Premier League. That probably did us in - if we aren?t sure he?s good enough, why should the Home Office be?
It?s a pretty bad system, but it?s pretty difficult to argue that as the system stands, Obinna should have got a work permit. But a system where you can ge a work permit by playing 75% of games for, say, Honduras, but not for playing 50% of games for Nigeria is clearly a pretty flawed one.
Just as random points, Spain is only a soft touch for Latin American countries, who get special treatment. Et?oo had to play in Spain for 10 years before he got a passport!
Also, Liverpool were refused a work permit for Mark Gonzalez. He went off to play in Spain for 2 years, got his work permit, came back, and left again after half a season. So big 4 clubs do miss out too.
I think the same thing happened with Leto too. He’s away to Greece for a few years due to work permit /passport problems.
I think that if he was allowed to enter the UK so many other Premier League clubs would have snapped him up way before Everton even sniffed him. No wonder Everton were the only ones chasing him but everyone else knew the rules and that they would have wasted their time ? like Everton sadly did at the end. Whats new hey!
As someone else mentions in this thread, I read somewhere last week that Obinna already has dual citizenship and is in possession of an Italian passport. In that case, it would have been a mere formality to get him over here as an EU citizenship.
There was one story - in the Echo? the Post? - that he has mislaid his passport and Everton officials were trawling through his apartment to find it.
How true that is, who knows? But if he already DOES have an Italian passport, surely an easier solution rather than appealing to the Home Office for a work permit was to report the passport as lost or stolen and put in an urgent request to replace it...?
For me, his loss is harder to bear than not signing Moutinho because he at least had concretely agreed to join us with Inter’s blessing.
There was one story - in the Echo? the Post? - that he has mislaid his passport and Everton officials were trawling through his apartment to find it.
How true that is, who knows? But if he already DOES have an Italian passport, surely an easier solution rather than appealing to the Home Office for a work permit was to report the passport as lost or stolen and put in an urgent request to replace it...?
For me, his loss is harder to bear than not signing Moutinho because he at least had concretely agreed to join us with Inter’s blessing.
I wonder whether the Home Office refused because he is Nigerian? Now I wouldn?t wish to speculate on their internal decisions but it does raise the question of whether he would have been refused if he had been born in another country? Now if he?d wanted to work in airport security or within the Home Office there would have been no problem regardless of his status!!
It is a joke isn?t it, madness... It's ok to let x million europeans into the country to take people's jobs and lower their pay rates, while claiming child benfit for children not even living in this country but you cannot have a highly paid football player. Obinna surely with a much better background check to ensure he is not a criminal etc is far more deserving of a place in our country? Also, Obinna would've contributed a large amount of tax ? surely a benefit to this country? It is a bit like the gurkhas who fought for this country but are not allowed to live here. The whole system sucks ass!!!!!!!
david: how the fuck is Obinna not getting a work permit in way, shape or form similar to the Gurkhas? The latter have fought for this country and risked their lives, asking merely in return that they are given the right to reside in the UK. The former is highly paid footballer without any link to the UK. Or are you saying that Obinna also served in the British forces? Was he in Iraq perhaps on a secret mission?
John Cats, you ask...
"Was he in Iraq perhaps on a secret mission?"
Well, surely if he had been, it wouldn’t be public Knowledge.
All I’m prepared to say....and I’ve got to be careful here...... let me just say we SHOULD have been able to sign him.
(nb: ffs, keep that to yourself!!)
"Was he in Iraq perhaps on a secret mission?"
Well, surely if he had been, it wouldn’t be public Knowledge.
All I’m prepared to say....and I’ve got to be careful here...... let me just say we SHOULD have been able to sign him.
(nb: ffs, keep that to yourself!!)
Working for the UK Border Agency, so with some insider knowledge, I can assure you that the system is delivered in an impartial way. If the RS had been trying to get a work permit for Obinna they would have been refused too.
The first application is tested against set criteria, namely the 75% test mentioned above. If that is not met, there is an appeal at which the club/player can put forward any evidence they want to show that, despite not being a regular for their country, the player is nevertheless worthy of a work permit.
The reason for the two tier process is so that most applications can be dealt with by one caseworker by testing against the rules. The second stage appeal is a more expensive process so we don’t just have all cases go before a highly paid panel of judges at the first instance.
Clearly there will be Brazillians who don’t make it into the national side and so fall foul of the rules, but are still very good, and so they club is given the 2nd chance at the appeal to make that case.
It is also not the case that a regular in a crap national team will benefit over a fringe player in a top team, as rules stipulate that you have had to have played 75% of games in the last 2 years for your country which is one of the top 40 (I think) in the FIFA rankings.
To give the first random example that popped into my head, George Weah would have been refused a work permit in the first instance, then likely allowed on appeal, because despite being world footballer of the year, he came from a country with a very weak national side.
Whole basis of the system is that no-one should be allowed into the country to work unless they have skill sthat are not already available to the proposed employer within the European Union.
Free movement for workers with in the EU is the right of any EU citizen. Fact Obinna was in Italy for thee years is irrelevant as he doesn’t benefit from free movement untill he gains citizenship there. Or alternatively he marries an EU citizen (which is why you see so many Iraqis, Afghans. etc who have suddenly realised that Latvians, Poles, etc are the most beautiful women in the world and are marrying them left right and centre.)
Upshot is, Everton couldn’t convince a panel of judges that Obinna was sufficiently skilled to qualify for a WP yet. Perhaps if it hadn’t all been in such a rush they would have made a better case and won, but that is down to their crap timing rather than the HO being biased in favour of the Sky Four!
The first application is tested against set criteria, namely the 75% test mentioned above. If that is not met, there is an appeal at which the club/player can put forward any evidence they want to show that, despite not being a regular for their country, the player is nevertheless worthy of a work permit.
The reason for the two tier process is so that most applications can be dealt with by one caseworker by testing against the rules. The second stage appeal is a more expensive process so we don’t just have all cases go before a highly paid panel of judges at the first instance.
Clearly there will be Brazillians who don’t make it into the national side and so fall foul of the rules, but are still very good, and so they club is given the 2nd chance at the appeal to make that case.
It is also not the case that a regular in a crap national team will benefit over a fringe player in a top team, as rules stipulate that you have had to have played 75% of games in the last 2 years for your country which is one of the top 40 (I think) in the FIFA rankings.
To give the first random example that popped into my head, George Weah would have been refused a work permit in the first instance, then likely allowed on appeal, because despite being world footballer of the year, he came from a country with a very weak national side.
Whole basis of the system is that no-one should be allowed into the country to work unless they have skill sthat are not already available to the proposed employer within the European Union.
Free movement for workers with in the EU is the right of any EU citizen. Fact Obinna was in Italy for thee years is irrelevant as he doesn’t benefit from free movement untill he gains citizenship there. Or alternatively he marries an EU citizen (which is why you see so many Iraqis, Afghans. etc who have suddenly realised that Latvians, Poles, etc are the most beautiful women in the world and are marrying them left right and centre.)
Upshot is, Everton couldn’t convince a panel of judges that Obinna was sufficiently skilled to qualify for a WP yet. Perhaps if it hadn’t all been in such a rush they would have made a better case and won, but that is down to their crap timing rather than the HO being biased in favour of the Sky Four!
Obinna was knocked back because he hadn’t played in 75% of Nigeria’s games in the past 2 years.
Not sure about the Uruaguyan fella the geordies got, but im guessing he had a Spanish passport or he had played the required games internationally, that Obinna hadn’t
The Brazilian striker Liverpool got had an Italian passport. I found this out because i had the same feelings as you about him being allowed in and Obinna wasn’t. But because he had one of those shifty passports he’s in and Obinna’s gotta go back to Italia
Not sure about the Uruaguyan fella the geordies got, but im guessing he had a Spanish passport or he had played the required games internationally, that Obinna hadn’t
The Brazilian striker Liverpool got had an Italian passport. I found this out because i had the same feelings as you about him being allowed in and Obinna wasn’t. But because he had one of those shifty passports he’s in and Obinna’s gotta go back to Italia
I have to say I am gutted which missed out on him, regarless of the reasons why we did. Having watched him play a few times I believed he would have the impact that Cahill had, or even Kanchelskis when he had that great season for us. He is a pacy winger that would have given us a different dimension, able to play on both wings with genuine pace to push defences back. Many defenders, like Ashley Cole and Glen Johnson aren’t good defenders and actually they are best when they are pushed forward, but with the pace of Obinna they are forced to hang back. Im a big fan of Peanuts, but he cant play top notch every game and I would much prefer Arteta to be back in the middle dictating play and having Feliani and Cahill or Castillo all providing the muscle. I think Arteta isn’t in the game sometimes being on the wing and that he is at his best pulling the strings and running the play, with a bit of freedom to roam.
I think we should definitely try for a work permit for january, but I wonder if we have a hope with circumstances not changing much?
I’m not suprised it all went pear shaped, we are Everton fans, eternally damned to transfer frustration!
I think we should definitely try for a work permit for january, but I wonder if we have a hope with circumstances not changing much?
I’m not suprised it all went pear shaped, we are Everton fans, eternally damned to transfer frustration!
Obinna is from Nigeria a former British Colony were the indigenous population were ripped off for years by British corporations. It strikes me as being mean spirited of the Premier League to have such rigid rules for players from former colonies; blocking them from getting a piece of the English treasure.
"mean spirited of the Premier League to have such rigid rules for players from former colonies"
It’s nothing to do with the Premier League, they don’t issue UK work permits, the Home Office does (or, depending on which reports you believe, possibly the Department for Work and Pensions)
And it’s wrong to suggest the rules aren’t applied to the big four in the same way: Liverpool have had problems with Leto and Gonzalez, Man Utd with Dong and Manucho, and Chelsea sent Alex to PSV for three years to get a European passport
It’s nothing to do with the Premier League, they don’t issue UK work permits, the Home Office does (or, depending on which reports you believe, possibly the Department for Work and Pensions)
And it’s wrong to suggest the rules aren’t applied to the big four in the same way: Liverpool have had problems with Leto and Gonzalez, Man Utd with Dong and Manucho, and Chelsea sent Alex to PSV for three years to get a European passport
Maybe Mark Clattenburg has a new job ...
Home Office/DWP then - mean spirited cunts
The agency who decide on work permits for footballers are the Sports and Entertainments Team of the UK Borders Agency, a division of the Home Office.
See this link.
See this link.
At his age he would have had to have played regularly internationals since he was 19.
However, it is rather bizarre to think that a highly paid footballer coming from Inter Milan and having just played well in the Olympics would be refused a work permit.
Does that mean when we host the Olympics lots of players will not be allowed to play?!
However, it is rather bizarre to think that a highly paid footballer coming from Inter Milan and having just played well in the Olympics would be refused a work permit.
Does that mean when we host the Olympics lots of players will not be allowed to play?!
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1 Posted 03/09/2008 at 05:08:27
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