Now you know why a share rights issue would be a non-starter. The block vote would have to relinquish some power !! The Peoples’ Club?
Not while Bill and his cronies are at the top table !!

DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A POLL AND A SHOW OF HANDS VOTE ?

A waste of YOUR time, Jamie? What the hell did you do?

No matter what side of the debate you stand on, you have to respect Mark for the way he went about things.

Like it or not, we don’t have the right to walk in and demand Kenwright answer any question we like in the detail we like. What Mark did was use the legal rights available to him intelligently. There are quite a few people who, in the same position, would have asked rude, obnoxious questions, which they had no legal obligation to ask, and given the board the legal right to just walk away.

Mark researched his legal rights, and exploited them as far as he could. Fair play to the bloke.

Your first line was spot on "Well done Mark Grayson".

The rest of it is misdirected criticism, I?m afraid. At least Mark & Tony have actually got off their backsides and tried to do something while the rest of us just post on meassage boards.

Their hands were completely tied by the protocol for the meeting & a board who are desperately trying to hold onto their power (I use the term "power" very loosely).

Hold on to Power? Show of hands and a Poll...yes. A show of hands is a direct vote where everyone gets one vote - a poll is based on power...a poll gives a percentage and this one was over 97% against the resolution...which was ALWAYS on the cards. Its not misdirected criticism at all. I am a shareholder in many an organisation and have attended more EGM?s (and AGM?s) than I care to remember but this one could have been read like a book. Without the money, ?getting off their backsides? might as well have been to fetch some milk from the papershop...it would have been a better use of their time. I post on this board occassionally to offer positivity towards the bad times (and yes, they are bad) but I can?t be positive about an EGM for the sake of an EGM. There were no real hard hitting, on the spot questions and the answers where equally as soft. EGM?s are normally troubleshooting affairs that are far more hard hitting. This was just lip service for those that wanted to hear it direct from Blue bill?s mouth and not from reports in the paper. The only thing that we (as fans) can take from that meeting is that Mr Kenwright as admitted he can?t afford to carry on. Its on record, its in the minutes. It should now be actioned...is anyone following up on the minutes ;) - perhaps one of those people who got up off their backsides can follow them up.

Although we all knew the resoloution was doomed to failiure from the start Jamie dont you think it was worth bringing to the fore ? Do you think this exclusivity clause benefits the fans ?
Our chairman showed his and his cronies self interest hand last night and was made to admit that LCC had put a viable ground proposal to the board in 2006 . In short he was shown up for what he is a charlatan and a LIAR. I think the majority of us their last night were fighting for a principle, shame that you appear to have none.

Never doubt that A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.

Unbelievable, it was a complete and utter waste of time. Nothing new in the questions, nothing new in the answers. This meeting should have have taken place though I understand the legalities which forced it. All it did was give the board the chance to reiterate their beliefs but more significant were Kenwrights remarks about the financial state of the club/himself and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that we need a new stadium asap, wherever it may be..And Kirkby happens to be the only current viable option. Those who forced the meeting didn?t do their homework, this was a chance to put a viable option to the board, unfortunately you failed to do so. And before ?fans? start to shout at me, please remember that it was a shareholders meeting and all shareholders have a responsibility to use their best offices to give the board other options, they didn?t, they were negative rather than positive. Shame on you for misusing your chance to do something positive and further shame on you for trying to make out you have the support of the majority of ordinary fans, when clearly you do not. Maybe its about time the vast silent majority found its voice and put forward its support for the board.

I place myself firmly in the pro-Kirkby camp, but for you Jamie to be so sneering and dismissive of Mark Grayson in calling the EGM is unmerited.

The man should be congratulated. From what I’ve read and seen from last night’s meeting, the club - particularly in the form of Elstone - was forced to reiterate its support and put its case anew for Kirkby.

In the wake of this week’s events down the road in Manchester, Elstone made a pretty compelling case - possibly the most detailed account from the club since the ballot was called - which otherwise might not have been heard but for the calling of the EGM. So for that alone we all should be grateful to Mark.

And the message is potentially a very stark one: we adapt... or die.

Art do you buy that? Adapt or die? Lets face it, the top 5 for the forseeable future will be a combination of Man Ure, the arse, Chelski, Man Shitteh and the RS. All we and the rest of the league can do is either try and stay up or get a billionaire of our own. How is increasing our debt to inexcess of £130m to give us a (generously) projected extra £10m a year gunna make us able to break that top 5 of clubs? Let alone the Villas and Spurs and Pompeys too.. face it, Kirkby will not help, and in the current financial environment, is a massive risk with zero benefits on the pitch (ie it wont make us competitve with the new sky 5). Theres simly no case for it unless the UEFA spots increase right the way down to 14th in the league. Perhaps more appropriate: Adapt and die.

Jamie Rowland: The only waste of time in all of this is your content-free drivel inspiring more intelligent life to contribute in support of Mark’s efforts.

I’m actually more positive towards what Bill Kenwright has done for us than many who pollute this forum. But even I think the honesty, candour and even embarassment that was self-evident last night made Mark’s efforts worthwhile.

For once I think the Echo’s take on the EGM was on the nail. Rather than further hostilities and sow more damage between club & fans, it has re-built some of what was lost by the candid & serious way that the board approached the event.

Michael K: Do we have to allow such vaccuous shite to pollute this forum?

Does anybody know if they are still gonna force a 2nd EGM through ?And yes,well done to the lads who organised last nights one.How people cant see through Bill Kenwright astounds me.

Tony Bennett...you and Mark did yoursleves proud - and you did your community and this club proud. Being of a different opinion from the majority shareholders does not make you wrong. But, Tony and Mark, you misfired at that meeting. There is only one question which should be asked and asked and asked....how can Everton find £100 million?

1. Sale of Goodison? See Bellefield and see Property Crash. My guess? £12 mn tops.

Naming Rights? £15 mn over five years.

Future debt? That?s easy - we?ll tell the world to cancel the Credit Crunch.

So, when we can?t get the money, what do we do? We can?t afford to moveand we are told we can?t afford to stay.

Solution? Bill and his friends need to sell for much less to a buyer who can redevelop GP on a bigger front print. Net Value of Everton is the real world? £50 mn plus £60 mn debts and the need to build a stadium for £200 mn/. So, we need someone who can spend/underwrite, £310 mn. And that?s with Everton going cheap.

Not easy is it.

So, Joeynkoo, basically you are all for quitting - not trying. Is that what you’re saying?

I’ve posted on another thread - one bemoaning the influx of money into PROFESSIONAL football - that it is difficult to tally the emotion of a truly devoted fan and a rather romanticised, Corinthian idea of a level playing field for all in today’s corporate-driven model in the PL.

The key word here is PROFESSIONAL. Regardless of whether you or anybody else likes it or not, accepts it or not, professional football clubs are now run like businesses, each striving to climb as high up the corporate ladder as they can.

I will support Everton, wherever they play, in whatever division they play in, until my dying day. That is the emotional pull they have on me. But alongside that I am also ambitious for my club... and I want them to win silverware and get THEIR trough in the Euro millions.

You, on the other hand, seem to be advocating that we remain totally passive, accept our lot and don’t try to position ourselves to break into what you evidently consider a closed shop.

Robert Elstone restated the case for the club last night as to why such passivity - sitting on our hands and doing nothing at GP - equates to the club’s (possibly) rapid decline and if not extinction, potentially anonymity.

I am relieved that there are high ranking officers at the club who are acutely aware of the club’s plight that other’s wish to ignore.

Jamie, I suggest that you visit the KEIOC website, www.keioc.net, to find out about the vote and what really happened, not the inevitable spin that, sadly, continues to be evident in the club.

Ged Alexander ? I was at the EGM and I not only asked that question I explained in detail with reference to the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors why the projected contribution from Everton is now £99M, guess what? They wouldn?t answer.

Unfortunately it is very difficult for a small number of people to change the minds of people that are startled in the headlights of a massive organisation. Everton?s board has been repeatedly told of the problems surrounding Kirkby but they continue to bury their heads in the sand.

Mark and Tony tried, as did many others, will it make a difference? Who knows?

If a Government had been elected with a 60/40% vote it would believe it had a massive mandate from the people. Those who lost the vote on Kirkby have adopted this holier than thou approach, cried foul over every variation in the plan and acted like the rest of us don?t exist. In reality all you are doing is condemning EFC to a mid or lower table place for the forseeable.

I have to say, the general whingeing and whining around the club has become almost unbearable at the moment.

Criticism is fine, it?s part of being a football supporter, but why not keep it constructive, instead of all this "So and so is a liar, a cunt", etc ".

What does that achieve? To be honest, it seems to me that some people have come to enjoy moaning and bitching more than simply being a supporter of a great and historic football club. Yes, it not easy being an Evertonian, but apart from a few golden years in the 80s (I?m 37), when has it ever been any different?

I get sick of the BK bashers, you may not agree with everything the guy does but one thing he IS doing is his best. That may not be good enough for you, but I don’t see anyone beating down his door to inject the massive funds we’d all love to see. The one thing you never hear from the knockers is what their miracle solution would be. Barring a multi billionaire or a stadium share (which at one time the NWDA were prepared to help fund) DK looks the only way to at least move the club forward.

I worry now that no matter what the result of the DK call in that we are beyond the point of no return. It would appear that the sale and release of players was just to keep the club’s head above water. In 12 months time the majority of those players that have only just come in will return from whence they came as they are only on loan leaving us in exactly the same boat; no players and no cash to buy any.

In that particular scenario just who is going to lend Billy the money for the stadium? How close are the club to a visit from the receivers? How close are the club to not being able to service the debt it already has never mind that for a new stadium wherever it may be? The club is clearly living beyond it’s means but even the next step may not be within reach without new money appearing from somewhere.

Gavin Ramejkis - spot on. Does not bear thinking about next summer. For thinqs to change either DK will have to be approved or, more crucially, our club gets the investment it deserves. Cant help thinking that if Bill had have come out at the end of last season and set expectation regaring the funds for the summer and quickly moved to supress headlines for unrealistic summer targets he would have had a lot more respect than he presently has at the moment. I wish him all the luck in the world in seeking the only factor that is going to set us up nicely for the future like no other factor - our Billionaire. He needs to relocate to Dubai, Moscow or New York and concentrate 100% on new investment otherwise it is inevitable that DM will never be able to satisfy his ambitions at EFC and in all probability his key assets will be out the door also.

"So, Joeynkoo, basically you are all for quitting - not trying. Is that what you?re saying?"

Im saying Kirkby is not us ’trying’, the financial gains are arguable and not sufficient to bridge a gap to that of the new sky 5 group. Ergo - its not trying, its desperation. Its bad management. Its foolhardy. Its only having one plan and sticking to it to save face. What it isnt, is a viable plan to keep Everton in the top 5 or break the into the Champions league. It is not, in my opinion, the carrot to entice the billionaire owner either - though I concede that is up for debate.

We need to face facts, the new top 5 of english football is, but for miracles like when we finished 4th, inpenetrable. As BK has admitted, we are going nowhere without a billionaire owner - same as the rest of the league who hasnt got one. So Kirkby or no Kirkby, we need a billionaire owner according to BK. So its not break into the sky 5 at GP, or not break into the sky 5 at Kirkby. I vote for GP.

It beggars belief. No matter how many lies,and how much bullshit we have had to endure from BK, there are still fans out there, who won’t have a bad word said against him, and still think the sun shines out of his arse. I’m just glad that there are plenty of lads out there, who can see him for what he really is, a bullshitter, and liar of the highest calibre.

Jamie Rowland

Read your own article mate, count inaccuracies then ask yourself who is wasting who’s time

Art Greet

STILL advocating DK.
STILL, telling us all how you would support EFC forever and ever and ever . . . . . .

Refresh my memory will you, How many games did you attend last season ?

How many bites of the cherry do the no camp want ?

Vote after vote returns a yes answer and they simply turn their attention to the next opportunity to put a block on what many fans want.


If anyone who thinks that Kenwright and more obviously Moyes doesn’t want to move Everton forward then I truely don’t think they can see the wood for the trees,
We are over acheiving and its down to those two if anyone.

I’m still stunned by people like Art who continue to look upon skulking off to Kirkby as the panacea for all the ills effecting Everton Football Club
Who told you it is the only way forward? Why do you believe them?
I was sceptical even when it was heralded as an ’effectively free, world-class’ 60,000 and expandable stadium with the best public transport links in Europe, generating £10milion a year for transfers, increasing our revenue by hosting concerts, jamborees, rallys, conferences and sporting events
As one by one these ’benefits’ have proved to be, at best, misconceptions, at worst, lies, more people are doubting the wisdom of what is becoming a ’forced’ relocation

It beggars belief that there are still Evertonians who believe all the club tell them and refuse to consider and evaluate any downside, including the effect on future support as small-town neighbours of a big city club.
Perhaps they are complacently ignorant of our history as the premier club in the City of Liverpool or have just been in exile too long

Jason, this wasn?t a fair vote. It only needed Kenwright, Woods and Carter to vote against the motion for the result to be a crushing victory for their side of the argument simply because of the number of shares they hold.

The observation from those present was that the number of vote sheets in the "for" pile (i.e. those for the motion that the club should end the exclusivity agreement) was around 60% versus 40% who voted "against" the motion (i.e. are still pro Kirkby).

In effective terms, this vote represents a swing to 6 to 4 against Destination Kirkby and a show-of-hands vote, had it been allowed, would have reflected that.

I attended the EGM last night, and found it a very interesting, if frustrating, night. All the speakers were articulate, and presented good arguments. The length of time taken to deliver the vote was a pain, but the look on Mr Carter’s face when Bill passed him the tricky question from Warren Bradley was worth the admission fee! On the other hand the intervention by the Professor of Sanctimony was a definite downer.

More seriously, can anyone do the math to give a rough idea of how many of the votes cast against the motion were ’Board’ votes? It mystifies me how the Echo can spin that a majority of the Shareholders (as opposed to a majority of the SHAREHOLDING) supported the move to Kirkby at the meeting last night.

At any rate, it is my belief that the go-ahead will be decided in the light of national planning policies (ie discouraging out of town mega-malls etc) and the regional issues. Unfortunately the wishes, or otherwise, of Everton supporters will play very little part in that decision. This is why it is so remiss of the Board to have no Plan B.

No voters and Bill Kenwright doubters look at sky sports news watch and take a note of the Necastle fans this is how passionate fans who disagree with what there club are doing react until we react like this this bafoon will destroy our beloved club.

Lyndon, how was the vote not fair ? I’m fairly sure most business are run that way. Expecting any thing different seems naive to me.

Lyndon...after reading Jason’s’ ripostes, I will never be stunned by the mind-set of fellow Evertonians again
God help us

Phil, how does that help ? A condencending reply with no counter arguement whatsoever.

Only one riposte, by the way. The first was not a response to anyone. Just my opinion.

Jason McCormak
When a couple of people on the board use all their votes to silence the majority of people, that isnt a "fair vote" lad,
Dont get me wrong, nobody was expecting a fair vote, but dont be naive enough to call it one

AS for the no vote wanting more bites of the cherry ? Na the yes men are fucking things up all by themselves mate

Joeynkoo, you say ?Kirkby is not us trying ? it?s desperation ? It?s foolhardy ? Its only having one plan and sticking to it to save face.? That opinion can be given a volte face equally applied to those who think we should stick at GP, whatever the cost to the club.

Your claim remains the same as I originally pointed out: the risk is too great, so let?s not risk anything. Everton (if you know your history?) has long been an innovator in the game. I don?t wish to lightly dismiss tradition and all that Goodison means to every Evertonian, but rather than effectively say as you are ?we can?t afford it (the move to Kirkby?), maybe ? just maybe ? that can be inverted to say ? we can?t afford NOT to move?. The option you originally promoted ? basically, to accept our lot and do nothing ? will most definitely ensure a slow, if not rapid, decline.

Dave Wilson wrote: ?Art Greeth - STILL advocating DK. STILL, telling us all how you would support EFC forever and ever and ever . . . . . . ?

YUP! And your problem with that is? what exactly?

As for this: ?Refresh my memory will you, How many games did you attend last season?? Tsk! There?s me forgetting my place again? I?m an overseas Blue, therefore a third class Evertonian with no right to express an opinion on my club, according to the wisdom of Dave. That Michael Kenrick better not dare post on here any more, eh-what?

Phil Bellis, nice emotive use of the verb ?skulking?. Given the intensity of the debate, I hardly think Everton is trying to slip off to Kirkby under the cover of darkness without anyone aware of the possibility.

Just to correct a few observations you made. I do NOT believe a move to Kirkby is necessarily ?the panacea for all the ills effecting Everton Football Club?. I do believe it gives us some sort of competitive chance which is an improvement on our current state.

NOBODY has told me ?it is the only way forward?, so there is no-one for me to believe on that score. Shocking as this may seem to you, but? I weighed up any number of factors and ? how irrational of me, how irresponsible of me, how presumptuous of me ? I (splutter!) came to the decision ?. MYSELF!!!!

Every coin has two sides. An issue such as this has even more faces. Let me paraphrase your final statement to demonstrate this:

?It beggars belief that there are still Evertonians who don?t believe anything the club tells them and refuse to consider and evaluate any upside, including the effect on future support the opportunity of relocating offers. Perhaps they are complacently ignorant of our history as a premier club in the British Isles and as a great innovator throughout the ages, or? they have just lived too closeted a life in the city of Liverpool and their parochialism is too deep-rooted to embrace change for the long term benefit of the club?.

Onward and upward...

I’m in danger of repeating myself but I’ll say it again.

Shareholder voting works like that in most major companies.

Right or wrong - Why did anyone expect anything different ?

Each to his own, Art...as ever
I suspect lends a differeing perspective on this issue
It seems, though, that it took an EGM to force some transparency from / dialogue with the Board
Outward and downward

Brian Denton.

Kenwright, Earl and Carter between them ’own’ just under 25,000 shares.

Abercromby and Granchester own enough to make up the shortfall for the total given - presumably one of them voted against the resolution and one abstained.

Lyndon et al on the vote - the absolute essence of shareholder capitalism is that those with more shares get more say in the running of companies (i.e. more votes). That’s kind of what it’s all about. I am not always a great fan of capitalism myself - but it may be a bit misplaced to start the communist revolution at Everton Football Club.

Nothing at all irregular or unfair happened with the vote last night. Just business as usual.

Personally I would give credit to the guys who forced the EGM, and thereby forced some better answers out of the Board. Elstone seems a big improvement on Wyness, and made a pretty good and more realistic case for Kirkby than Wyness’s overblown blustering.

Art

Absolutely priceless mate,

You dont go to the games, but you have the temerity to tell the people who do, what and where is best for them

I’m not suggesting that exiled and non matchgoing Evertonians shouldnt have an opinion on most matters to do with the club, but whether we play at Kirkby or Inverfuckingness they wont be going ! !

That renders their opinion on where we play - IMHO - irrelevant

Please dont give me the sob story of living overseas, its been pissing down here, you cant have everything

Kirkby would mean not having to look across the park with envy!! Those opposed probably live within a five minute walk of GP. Progress to some is something to fear.This great nation embraces change and its challenges. A novelty to get a seat and to know that you can see the pitch.
We have made progress over the last 4 years. Who else can claim that. Long live the king!!!! We have the best young manager in the premier league. He has proved this repeatedly and still some complain. You have to live within your means and Moyes has been the best in the country on that score.
So rejoice in our relative success and hope that we continue to grow as a team and squad. Success will breed success.

Dave... ’mates’ we’re not and never will be, so let’s dispense with such false niceties straight away, OK?

I have not, I am not, I will not EVER have "the temerity to tell people who go to the game what and where is best for them". That is a very personal choice each and every individual must make for themselves. I don’t possess the breathtaking pomposity and arrogance that you frequently display to make such utterances.

You, on the other, have VERY CLEARLY stated - now and in the past - that the opinion of non-match-going Blues IS of no consequence.

The stadium issue is one of many that EVERY blue - regardless of location, age, sex, match attending frequency, WHATEVER - has EVERY right to express an opinion on.

I am not so insecure that I need to justify my Blue credentials to you or anyone. Similarly, I will NEVER surrender my right to express an opinion on Everton - whatever the subject - to you or anyone.

Does it ever occur to anyone that the very people who are being accused of ’unfair’ voting tactics at last night’s vote, are the very people who offered fan’s a vote in first place ?

That might be irony.

Dont get to excited about Estone, one of the final questions at the EGM had him tied in knots. The question was how much have EFC spent on DK so far,? erm not sure might be 1 million. 1 million asked the speaker, you have only spent 1 million on all these consultants and experts ? well it might be near 2 million, so it has doubled in a matter of seconeds...

Art

Trust me, it was NOT a term of endearment , hopefully you’ll someday learn the difference between "false niceties" and sarcasm

Feel very free to express your opinion on where we should play- its a forum thats what it for - but as a none match goer, know your opinion to be . . . . .well irrelevant

As for NEVER EVER, surrendering you right to an opinion . . .EVER

You go boy, knock yourself out

All BK’s critics including myself are wrong.

He has been successful!!!

He has successfully caused the biggest division in the fans since I started watching them in the late 50’s and if he doesnt get stopped he will be successful of leaving EFC with the legacy of a championship level stadium in the middle of nowhere with a threadbare squad and over 100 million in debt.

That will be his Nirvana.

Watch this space.

Thank you Art for so eloquently and so very precisely putting into words the thoughts of this other ex pat blue.

I just want to correct Lyndon who is somewhat over-egging the pudding (and importance) on the show of hands situation. It is a fact most INDIVIDUAL shareholders didnt even support the calling of the EGM in the first place, it would have been an absolute folly of the club to bow to the demands of a minority of small shareholders over abandoning DK and they were right for calling for a poll vote. The result? A thumping victory for the board (97% no less) and a thumping 26,000 votes for the clubs position against a mere 600...as the Daily Post and Echo have reported today lol![Posted as "Gerry Harding"]

Jason, it was "fair" according to company law but it wasn?t a fair reflection of the views of the 600-odd people present. I?m not accusing the Board of impropriety, more choosing a voting format that would see them avoid defeat and allow them to continue on the road down to Kirkby.

A truer reflection would have been either a one-man, one-vote ballot or a show of hands which would likely have resulted in a 40% to 60% defeat for their side of the argument.

Without doubt the most frustrating aspect of the whole thing is that Elstone can crow via the official site about a 97.7% mandate and the average uninformed fan will assume that 97.7% of those in attendance voted for Kirkby when it was 97.7% of the shareholding.

Regarding your most recent comment, if even Johnson could grant the fans a ballot 10 years ago, then Kenwright would have faced huge criticism if he hadn?t allowed one. In any case, I don?t think he or Wyness thought they could lose after the way they spun the whole thing. Even now, after all the bullshit we?ve had to wade through about Kirkby, fans are still taken in by the spin.

Gerry, I'm under no illusions that the vote last night would have been binding. It was always going to be about airing grievances and sending a message to the Board Unfortunately, the club have gone into complete overdrive with the spin, claiming a 97.7% mandate when that was not representative of those present. A show-of-hands vote or one-man, one-vote ballot would have demonstrated that. As it was, the club come out smelling of roses and you get people like Jamie Rowland attacking Evertonians for wasting everyone's time.

Therein lies my point.

I assume that the people involved knew the voting rules when they started the process. It was the them and those who support them who wanted to choose a new voting format.

What I have a problem with is other prople calling into question the fairness of the vote. That’s spin but in the other direction. Both sides are guilty of it so to use it as an arguement does you a disservice.
For instance, Lyndon, your use of quotes when describing last nights vote as "fair" when conceding the point but removing them when referring to "a fair reflection of people’s views.".

Art, I do not think that you should be entitled to a vote on whether we move grounds. You are entitled to your opinion nethertheless, and no one doubts your passion for Everton. But you should not be dictating to those of us who do go, those of us who live in the shadow of the ground and do not want the club to move AWAY FROM US.

I have and always will be completely against a move away from the city, and by the city i couldn’t give a monkeys about council boundries, I mean the city as its people recognise it. I know Kirkby is part of Liverpool and would never seek to argue that it is not. However, a move to Kirkby is a move away from Liverpool and that I cannot allow.

I know as much as anyone the financial reason why we have to move, but this move will not solve those. Instead it will only sek to compund them. Why? I feel that the stadium will not give us this extra income that we require. Who on earth is going to use our corporate facilites outside of matchdays? I mean come on. Look at the city centre. A few years ago there was no where to hold conferences but now we have all of the major hotel chains here. They have a major convention centre too, though I’d rarther not talk about that place if I can help it, even the sight of it makes my blood boil. We will not gain anything by going to Kirkby. If anything we will jepodise the long term future of the club and its fanbase.

Goodison has spent most of its life as the premier stadium in the UK, the only stadia to host a World Cup Semi Final, a stadia that has held many FA Cup finals. It is a stadia that was the best. The absolute top dog. This is what Everton’s new stadium should aim to be. It should not aim to be a second rate stadium. If we move to a second rate stadium now, then we’re fucked in 30 years time when we’re in an old stadium that is falling apart. Everyone knows how crap these modern prefab buildings are and how they are not built to last if they are done on the cheap, and this whole prject is being done on the cheap. The only class part will be the TESCO store itself.

Once Everton leave, how can they ever come back. The anti-kirkby lobby don’t want to say I told you so. We just don’t want to go. We don’t want to stay, we just want NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM and Destination Kirkby is not that. It is settling, it is all about consolidation and accepting the position we are in now. You all know in your heart of hearts that Everton will not win a trophy in Kirkby.

Anyway, the argument is redundant. DK simply will not happen. We cannot afford a penny of it and we cannot afford the steel. If you look at TESCO its obvious that they are scrabbling to the exit door and are giving up on DK themselves as they see it becoming less and less comercially viable. Simply put the price of steel is going through the roof and construction costs will do as well. You can easily triple all of the figures quoted in the pamphletts. There is no way we can afford this stadium and TESCO and Bk’s mates won’t pick up the bill for us.

When EFC moves to DK, I won?t be going. I will not renew my season ticket, because, for me, EFC deserves better.
If you look at the plans, the travel arrangement it is a piss poor excuse for a stadium to serve a club that has been around for over a century.

Still, I?m cheered up by the fact that Mr. Ferns is correct, we cant fucking afford it.

I?m sick of this.

Art - sorry I cant argue with you. Your points are without foundation, dangerous, and ignorant. I am totally sick and tired of pointing out what Kirkby means to us. Even now, with and I hope you dont try to disagree - a top 5 finish impossible, you still want to go to Kirkby for some fantastical fictional 10m a year more from ticket sales. Jeez. Wake up. It aint guna materialise (34k v pompey). The money you think is coming is not. The money we borrow will need repaying. I do not criticise you as a blue, we are the same we just disagree, but your beliefs means we end like Leicester etc or worse. My beliefs mean we stay mid table mediocrity. For now, and until Bill finds a billionaire owner, I vote for medicority. Kirkby = bust. Wake up. Everyone other than the new sky 5 are now mediocrity. All we have is our history and tradition. Dont flog that too FFS!! Its worth more than Kirkby.

It’s been mentioned Keegan has gone at Newcastle.I’d say that should give us concern. I’d bet my last quid our venerable manager is on their radar.Perhaps fate will intervene on our behalf. Mr. Kenwright would not survive the loss of Moyes.It would be the end!

In light of the 97.7% Mandate, and my repeated calls...WHEN & OH WHEN are you people going to deliver Kenwright THE REAL BALLOT...

...STOP ATTENDING MATCHES & STOP GIVING HIM MONEY.

Then & only then begin negotiations at the next EGM.

The contradictions here are ludicrous, DK is going to be a crap stadium built on the cheap that we can’t afford and will fall apart after 30 years. The solution, lets build a super stadium that costs millions more in the shadow of where Evertonians live that will be filled by the 34k that turned up against Pompey. By the way some Evertonians live outside the shadow of GP why can’t they have the pleasure of walking to the ground. If I had forked out for 70% of the shares in anything I would be pretty pissed off if I was out voted by a couple of shareholders who held 5% just because they bothered to turn up to the GM.

The anti Kirkby lobby disregard anything and everything that is pro Kirkby, call BK a liar, accuse the board of mis-managing everthing down to the quality of the tea on offer, and deny their own self interest in keeping the ground in a convenient location for themselves.

I was an Evertonian before I was christened, Goodison Park was an amazing place for me to go to in 1966 when I went to my first game aged 8. I got crushed in the Street End and hung above the walkway to get a view of Ball and Kendall, I love the place. But it is now an embarassment. GP is not the future but a relic of a glorious past, I don’t want to live in the past but remember it, and cherish it as a great place, not watch it dying, tired, held together with bits of string and sticky tape. It’s time to let go. Nobody can foretell wether DK will be a sucess but surely it is obvious that staying at GP is certain decline. Does anyone think that the Gooners had less affection for Highbury, in 30 years they will be talking about the great games they saw at the Emirates, and thats the point, its the matches that are the history and memories, not the concrete and steel, they are just arranged to make the spectacle more comfortable and enjoyable. You don’t have to flagelise to prove you are a true Blue, although maybe some on here think you do.

I take exeption to you calling the place an embarresment, however i agree we need tomove just not outside the city, that will be a disaster.

Steve Ferns, I was not eligible to vote on the stadium move, so maybe you can sleep easier with that knowledge. Thank you for your acknowledgement that I am entitled to my opinion. Most generous of you?

Unlike many on here, I recognize the debate is a very emotional one. I don?t take to throwing cheap insults around. On this point, may I correct you on a complete falsehood you state about me: I have not, am not, will NEVER ?dictate to those of us who do go to the match? what they should think or say about the issue (Or? I have far greater influence than I ever imagined I possessed). As previously stated, this is a very personal issue and each and every individual should follow their own heart and head.

You say moving to Kirkby will jeopardise the long term future of the club and its fanbase. I and others believe otherwise. Nobody, but nobody, can say with absolute certainty that either prediction will prove correct.

Joeynkoo Ludden, you last post is called a cop-out. Rather than engage with me, you dismiss my posts as ?without foundation, dangerous, and ignorant? without justifying why. You repeat ? again! ? that rather than actively search for solutions that gives us a chance to compete, you are happy to ?vote for mediocrity?. I am eternally gratefully there are those working at the club and a large proportion of our fan base who think differently from you. ?All we have is our history and tradition. Dont flog that too FFS!!? you emotively cry.

And what of our present and future, Joeynkoo??

Art, stop giving us all Grief will ya, its like listening to a never ending record.

Firstly - I will apologise for the initial post.
I was so annoyed at the lack of inspiration at the EGM that I simply had to spout it out.
I consider my time valuable and it was a waste because we ALL knew it would be a whitewash, even if it did embarrass our chairman for 5 minutes.
As for my attendance towards the club I love - if people want to call that into question - be my guest. You?ll have egg on your face..thats a guarantee.

Alan Kirwin: please hug a tree.

I am not striking down fellow Evertonians. I know we need change and we need it fast. I know we all have different view points and opinions but I am not attacking my fellow fans on a personal level. I am merely stating that the farce that was the EGM was a waste of time.
Its true that the different, minority groups often change the future path but this was not inspiring and it needed to be.
My opinion is as valid as most (if not more so if we use the ?how many times do you go the game? as a metering device) and it is that the fans were always going to get shot down - especially based on the submitted questions.

As for the KEIOC site and group. I was all for them setting up the alternative view but I have been completely dismayed at their lack of action and their constant knock back of any reasonable debate as conspiracy, lip service or lies.

If my original post offended - then that is not what I intended - I was pissed at the lack of event and imagination at the EGM. I was hoping for more thought provoking discussion. I don?t want to split fans - I hate this Pro-Kirkby, hate-Kirkby divide, especially at a time when fans need to be a ?one?.

I felt that the EGM was just another way to moan about our grievances, split decisions and make us listen to the same old tripe. It really didn?t serve its purpose for me. You could argue that I should do more - but as proven by Mark Grayson, ?I? really doesn?y count - Money does.

So Steve Lyth... let me understand the rules of engagement correctly.

I and others have to be passive recipients of petty name-calling (such as your own profound offering); we should only conform to a single (unknown) opinion; we should not point out the flawed and contradictory logic some posts offer; we should give respondents a free ride when they bluster dismissively without addressing the issue under discussion.

Okley-dokley, as Ned Flanders is given to say. Thanks for firmly putting me in my place...

Since when has Grief been associated with name calling ya prick ?
Wind your neck in and give your arse a chance, petty enough for you Art for Arts sake ?

Art -

I’ll address your questions when you do mine. Love the way you ignored this quote from me "I am totally sick and tired of pointing out what Kirkby means to us". Read it, hence why Im not prepared to engage you.

If its a choice between becoming the next Leicester, or for the short term, being mid table mediocrity, I vote for the latter - at GP. Kirkby will provide nothing but more financial constraints in debt repayments, and will not make us able to compete with the sky 5 teams. FFS why is this so hard to grasp. 34k fans in kirkby cannot equal us competing with the sheiks. Wake up soft lad. Youre ignorant stand point is, and i quote from before, "dangerous".

If you disagree, please outline how Kirkby means we can compete financially with any of these sides: Man Ure, Ares, Chelski, Man Shitteh, RS. Cus 6th = fuck all.