The Mail Bag

Reality of Expectation

Comments (83)

Before we kick a ball in this year's Uefa Cup, it seems pertinent to ask, "How far can we go?"

There's no doubt we had a great run last year, losing only one game and beating the eventual winners Zenit St Petersburg. But that's no guarantee we can produce anything like those results this season.

Through prevarication (his or the Board's?), David Moyes was extremely late getting getting his troops all mustered this time round ? and injuries have not helped his cause either. In fact, it is likely that only one 'new face' will make tonight`s line-up and several of the old brigade may be missing too.

At last Sunday's game at Stoke, several inveterate travellers told me they did not expect to be travelling widely in Europe this season as Moyes was likely to see domestic consolidation as his first priority. Certainly our uncertain start to the season will make hanging on to a top six spot extremely difficult, particularly as Villa seem to have 'bought better' in the summer. Having said that, I can't imagine we shall see Davey "doing a Megson" and easing us out of the global game to concentrate on matters nearer to home....

So can we, should we, go all-out for European glory? Or,as many would have it, focus the main effort on the Prem and national cups?

The fact that we face one of the teams relegated from the Champions League makes it 'a hard ask' but Personally I shall be crying in my beer if we don`t make it to the group stages. Am I expecting too much?
Martin  Thompson, Thornton     Posted 18/09/2008 at 11:10:53

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Erik Dols
1   Posted 18/09/2008 at 14:56:51

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Actually we played a lot of ?reserves? in Europe last year. McFadden, Baines and Wessels all started some of the Uefa Cup games. Anichebe, Stubbs (!) and Gravesen were regular subs. I expect Moyes to try the same: some regular reserves as starters and some third-string players as subs. Accompanied with regular starters and some luck (mind you we did escape a few times last year) that should be enough to ease into the third round or so, where we need to take things more seriously if we?re going to mount a real challenge.
Stefan Tosev
2   Posted 18/09/2008 at 15:25:02

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Day,

It was only a rumour, we are still tied on Kirkby proposal so don't expect anything until DK is solved one way or another.
Lee Hind
3   Posted 18/09/2008 at 14:57:42

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No Martin, I don’t think you’re expecting too much. I don’t much care for the opposition. For my money we are good enough to be in the group stages, end of.

BUT Standard will be a tough test, especially with our squad as it is.

Always believe though :)
Day Kennedy
4   Posted 18/09/2008 at 15:27:14

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Thanks Stefan, Do you not think Ambani would still talk to the club prior to the DK issue being resolved? if it is resolved for DK , he has a Club with a new Stadium if it goes against DK he could already discuss a possible alternative proposal. ( whtever that could be ) .
Daniel Johnson
5   Posted 18/09/2008 at 15:49:05

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I think we will struggle to get past Liege tonight.

I think e will miss Andy Johnson's pace and workrate in Europe this season. I was gutted to see him playing for Fulham.

I though that Johnson was a great squad/team player and we should have kept him.
Greg Doyle
6   Posted 18/09/2008 at 15:51:28

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Not asking too much at all. They looked good against Liverpool, but Liverpool play shit sometimes. Yes we?ve had a shaky start but we are still a good side. COYB!
Paul Walsh
7   Posted 18/09/2008 at 15:44:18

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Day Kennedy-you trying to kill the thread or what? ha!ha!

I’d love us to have a great European campaign but the depth not the quality of our squad will impede our chances. Liege will be a formidable task.If we can beat them we could go a long way,with the right draws. I’d worry about our ability to keep it going in the PL if that were the case
Will Collins
8   Posted 18/09/2008 at 16:03:48

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I don’t think we shall see many reserves in the side tonight. I just so hope we can keep our European interest going to the groups as it puts a right damper on the season if you go out now.
And for godsake will the Anil/DK mob just let us talk about football for a bloody change-I honestly think some people are more interested in the politics than the game!
David Alexander
9   Posted 18/09/2008 at 16:36:32

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Its a cup, we can win it look at the finalists last year we beat one and are a whole lot better than rangers.

All it takes is a little luck. COYB...
Darren Bailey
10   Posted 18/09/2008 at 16:52:48

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We can win this tie and we can progress to the knock out stages no problem. Standard do worry me but look at it this way, we knock them out now and that?s one less dangerous side to possibly contend with in the latter stages. Just got to avoid Milan, although they haven?t started very well in Serie A this year. Experience counts for a lot in Europe and we?ve had a couple of years now and I feel tonite will be a good night.
Andy Ellams
11   Posted 18/09/2008 at 17:00:58

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AC Milan have to be the hot favourites this year. What’s the betting we get into the last 16 and draw them this year.
Bradley Nolan
12   Posted 18/09/2008 at 17:04:19

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Playing AC MIlan would be great
James Cadwaladr
13   Posted 18/09/2008 at 17:11:50

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Andy,

Bayern Munich were the favourites last year....They didn’t win it!
Chris Keightley
14   Posted 18/09/2008 at 17:14:56

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Before we get to far ahead of ourselves... I don't think we will get past Standard Liege!!! So, to answer the question, league consolidation is all we have to look forward to, a quarterfinal at best in the domestic cups, and 10th in the league... and that's me being over-optomistic!!
Keith Glazzard
15   Posted 18/09/2008 at 17:08:21

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It's a tough call to get through this round. If we do, then anything is possible. Perhaps we?ll get the Cyprus 3rd division sides instead of the Belgian champions (bitter - me?).

Out here in Catalunya I have just checked that Justin.tv is streaming and 5?s coverage is all there so far for anyone else that?s on line.

It can be done you blues - I?m sure they?ll give it all they?ve got.
Danny Broderick
16   Posted 18/09/2008 at 17:56:08

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I honestly believe if we can get past Liege, we can have a good year. Obviously it’s difficult to say how far we will go, you need the luck of the draw and luck in the key games, but if we can get a win tonight we will have half a chance of getting through, provided Davey can tighten up our defence. COYB!
Jip Foster
17   Posted 18/09/2008 at 18:30:57

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Liege will be tough, but get past them and we should have a good group. I don’t expect us to do any better this season - but here’s hoping!
Jason Cooke
18   Posted 18/09/2008 at 19:20:08

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We Will WIN. But what the hell is Stan Collymore doing the commentary for?
Dave Wilson
19   Posted 18/09/2008 at 19:16:47

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Getting to tonight's game involved a lot of shift swapping for me plus owing RS colleague big time, so I thought I?d give it a miss.

I?m sorry already, I?m going fucking nuts... won't get near a telly either so it's the old tranny for me ? is that gobshite Green still comentating?

COYB
Dave Wilson
20   Posted 18/09/2008 at 19:28:07

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thanks Jason

you answered my question before I asked it
Joeynkoo Ludden
21   Posted 18/09/2008 at 19:58:18

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ANYONE tell me where to view the match online please????
Mike Coates
22   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:08:26

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www.myp2p.eu

I’m watching a Sopcast of it now.

Someone start a thread and I can commentate for those who can’t watch.
Mike Coates
23   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:12:16

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Arteta had a shot just then, deflected for corner.

Yobo coming up front.
Mike Coates
24   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:12:52

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Standard player pushing Everton players around in box, as wait for corner.

He did it twice. Yellow card for him.
Paul Olsen
25   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:16:54

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Damn, lose Lescott already!

Drop the man for some games, he’s fucking up over and over....

Europe seems due to end before we begin...
Mike Coates
26   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:17:09

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Sopcast not working?

One sec..



There’s a TVU but apparently offline.

A few media players, haven’t checked as my sopcast working.

Also two TV ants channels.
Mike Coates
27   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:18:47

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Damn, Sopcast is far behind.

Only just saw the Standard goal then..

DAMN :(
Harvey Smith
28   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:18:36

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What the hell was Lescott doing? He needs to realise that a season’s worth of goodwill can be destroyed very easily if he doesn’t buck up soon.

On the other hand, why didn’t Neville stick to the man who actually scored?
Paul Olsen
29   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:33:04

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Great goal from the Yak 1-1!

Go on!
Mike Coates
30   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:33:05

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Been messing around trying to find a better cast of the game.

Haveta do with delayed feed, early voice.

Yak just scored..

Didn’t see who provided him though.

1-1
Mike Coates
31   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:36:49

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Killed my Everton TV account (damn) lol


Some one else may need to commentate.

My feed aint good enough.

I’ll commentate on Sunday ;)
Graham Eaves
32   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:43:21

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1-2, game over imo
Ralph Wetzels
33   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:45:22

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2-2, Castillo, excellent volley.
Paul Olsen
34   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:44:30

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Absolute disaster defensively.

Every man in our back four is looking fuckin? shit. Liege have been dangerous on a number of occations as well.

And as I lament, 2-2 Castillo! Thunderball!
Mike Coates
35   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:45:29

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WOW..

What a goal.

Wrong Net Yobo.


We must have 1st game jitters in UEFA.
Dave McKitt
36   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:44:36

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WHAT A GOAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike Coates
37   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:46:25

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Far out. Not reading on here anymore.

You guys ahead of me :)

lol

Speak to you guys at half time :)
Ralph Wetzels
38   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:51:55

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Yakubu just wide in injury-time.
Ralph Wetzels
39   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:53:08

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Half-time: 2-2
Lee Howard
40   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:53:26

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if there is anyone not watching then goto http://ziucchiradio.altervista.org/watch.php?id=351
James Marshall
41   Posted 18/09/2008 at 20:59:37

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We cant defend, its as simple as that - our best defender tonight is Phil Neville and thats saying something!

What the fuck were Howard and Yobo doing for the 2nd?? Why is Lescott so piss poor?? Jagielka = couldnt pass water.

Castillo looks a decent player, he may not be the best on the ball but he’s new to the country & team and the rest of his game looks pretty good to me - he covers ok, not a world beater but not an egg beater either.

Ossie looks out of shape, Anichebe playing well for once, Cahill looks off the pace and Arteta as usual cant beat the first man with his crosses.

6 our of 10, could do better.

2 away goals = I think we’re fucked cos they dont lose at home.
Craig Manderson
42   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:06:37

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Why Is Lescott looking so slow???

When we bother to pass the ball to midfield we look okay but the long punt to their massive CBs - Please ?????
Ralph Wetzels
43   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:25:41

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Well, another injury. Hopefully it ain’t too bad.
Mike Coates
44   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:28:03

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Its an ankle for sure for Anichebe.

Full on kick into the oppositions leg/foot.

Vaughan be on now.
Mike Coates
45   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:29:50

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Lescott looking injured now.

Might be an idea to bring Baines on newayz.
Ralph Wetzels
46   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:30:44

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Lescott is completely out of form.
Mike Coates
47   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:36:03

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Ref takes a dive.

I’ll be straight to bed after this then up for Doctors.
Mike Coates
48   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:40:25

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Vaughan, if Cahill is going for the header.

Let him go for the header.. don’t interfere.

LOL
Mike Coates
49   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:42:59

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Anyone upset with Neville’s recent performances?
Ralph Wetzels
50   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:41:46

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Everton pressing now. Vaughan heads just over.
Ralph Wetzels
51   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:49:33

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What a poor second-half. And worse, it looked like another bad injury to Anichebe.
Ralph Wetzels
52   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:54:36

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Now what the fuck is Lescott doing this season. What a let-off. That looked like a penalty.
Ralph Wetzels
53   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:56:30

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Full-time: 2-2

Bye Bye UEFA-cup.
Viv Sharma
54   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:56:57

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Lescott to Man City fot 50m this christmas? here?s hoping.
Shame.
Need all new defenders.
Shame.
Still, there?s always Hibbo to come back in.
Shame.
And WHY OH WHY do we let Arteta take the freekicks?!!!!!!!
Awful day at the office, but at least the game was exciting and hopefully converted a few neutrals.
Curry anyone? ;)
Mike Coates
55   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:59:57

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Let’s mirror our first UEFA away game now ;)

NEwayz.. Bed time.. 7am.. lol (9am for u)
Ralph Wetzels
56   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:00:38

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No, I’d rather have Shoarma.
Now what are you going on about Arteta? Ok, he hadn’t the best of games but have you forgotten about last Sunday already? Arteta: 2 ASSISTS. Good night.
Brian Waring
57   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:02:01

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Well. that was shit.
Viv Sharma
58   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:02:01

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Oh, good point Rob, but I’ll go one better, Castillo was awsome. Like Makalele in his body shape and positioning.
Great goal, but he looked like the perfect new Cars.
Buen hecho Segundo!
Øystein Lemvik
59   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:58:32

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I seem to remember we drew at home against Metalist last year, and that was against 9 men! So we can still hope..

However, our back line was shocking in the first half (and, although I thought he was great last season, Lescott kept that up defensively in the second). I have to say, I really don’t understand it. Ok, we’ve lost Cars, but the first goal.. Lescott’s not paying attention, the centre backs just standing there, Neville not following his man... Horrible! The second is unfortunate, although there should be enough communication back there to allow Yobo to let the ball pass. No-one in the danger area, just one man up ahead, and he is three-four yards behind Yobo. Horrible!

On a more positive note, we continue to create chances and score goals. And although Castillo still has a couple of shaky passes, he also shows skills Cars could only dream of.

Here’s hoping!
Larry Bird
60   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:58:45

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Stonewall penalty. We were haunted.

All came from a hoof up field from Jags. One of our 3 "world class" centre halves needs some bench time...

Play Baines and put some pressure on the 2 that aren?t dropped to perform. 8 goals conceded in 3 home games so far this season.

Thanks to Lee Howard for the link!
Viv Sharma
61   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:07:32

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ok, I did say "in body shape" but your right, just the shorts...
Damn, so close...
Tony Part
62   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:04:11

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Our defence cannot carry on like this. We are just seeping goals left right and centre and we look out of sorts and all at sea. I never thought I would say this but Joleon Lescotts confidence seems totally shot to pieces, even his passing has been poor and he seems to be more worried about the man than the ball lately whereas last season he just made defending look simple. Is this what playing for England does to you? Seriously I just wonder how long we can keep playing out of form players regardless of past success or stature. I love the big man but maybe just maybe he needs a break for one game or so to get his head sorted. Howard should have given Yobo a shout for the own goal. Once again where is the communication?

I think we are out of the UEFA Cup now but on the plus side Castillo looks good and I think he can hold down the midfield place and make it his own as time goes on. Osman looked off the pace as did Cahill which is to be expected. It makes me wonder why we didnt give Anthony Gardner a short term deal though. True his injury record is poor but I have to ask myself asides from Valente we dont have a single experienced defender to cover for any injury or loss of form which we are having with a few players now.

Anthony Newell
63   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:15:37

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Poor passing (Neville unsually excepted).
Poor defending.
Poor delivery on set pieces (Arteta was awful).

Ray of light in Castlllo?s performance. If we have an option to sign this guy on the cheap then we need to exercise it.
Joe McMahon
64   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:14:28

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Tony Part - I couldn?t agree more. Our defence has no-one on standby. We will be out of Europe & the League Cup in 2 weeks. This is the price you pay for making so few buys in transfer windows. We have the smallest squad in the prem.
Ian Hams
65   Posted 18/09/2008 at 21:59:16

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My player ratings for what its worth.
Howard - steady; can't be blamed for the goals.
Neville - Solid enough
Yobo - OG... what else can you say.
Jags - Best defender in the second half.
Lescot - Good going foward but totaly out of it in defence (drop him for Baines?)
Arteta - Too much weight on one man's shoulders and the opposition know it, we need another outlet.
Castillo - Great goal looked strong, promising addition to squad.
Osman - looked a bit lost at times, not quite fit yet maybe.
Cahill - I don't know what to say about Tim, he always gives 100%
Anichebe - superb effort; showed a different side to his game today that I didn't know he had.
Yakubu - Feed him and he scores nuff said.

To sum up most played well and if it weren't for two self-destruct moments we?d all be cracking another Stella by now. Personally I don't know wether to go for the scotch instead.
Anthony Newell
66   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:24:15

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Ian - the spirits every time
Mike Oates
67   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:16:06

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Jags was our best defender by a country mile - he clears up Lescott’s and Yobo’s problems. But lets get it straight these lads are the same lads as last year but cleraly Lescott and Howard are playing anywhere near last season’s standards . Howard doesnt seem to be communicating at all - the Yobo own goal just needed a loud shout to leave it .

Lescott hasnt grabbed the technicalities on the move from CH to LB , he’s letting balls go past him on the inside thinking Howard will pick up - like the late penalty appeal, the Santa Cruz goal , etc.
Trouble is he clearly wants the CH spot but Jags and Yobo are the better partnership.
Ian Hams
68   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:30:35

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Anthony. Disaster strikes: no scotch left... tequila it is.
Brian Waring
69   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:26:33

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Ian, Howard's takes most of the blame for Yobo?s own goal. At the end of the day, Yobo has to try and clear, because he doesn?t know what's behind him. Howard could see that there wasn?t anybody near Yobo, so why doesn?t he give him a shout?
Danny Broderick
70   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:31:26

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Yobo and Lescott stunk the house out. These 2 players are too sure of their place, they need a kick up the arse from Moysie, i.e. a serious threat of being dropped, if we are to shore up the defence. For Lescott the time has come to be dropped. I honestly don’t feel he is the best of defenders, I feel his goals covered up a lot of his defensive inadequancies last year, and if Baines doesn’t play on sunday he will never play for us.
Stu Gore
71   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:32:58

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We?ll do ?em away! Couple of points really
1) Arteta needs to CROSS THE BLOODY BALL. Pip put in better crosses than Mikel all night and that isn?t right and makes my head hurt
2) Lescott had his worst game in a Blue shirt. Save that shit for England.
3) Osman was great but had so many hospital balls hit his way I?m surprised he managed to full 90.
4)like Castillo. Loved that backheel in the second half. Roberto Carsley only ever passed the ball fowards once his whole career (but it was into the Redhsite net)
Ian Hams
72   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:36:20

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Brian, point taken on that one, that could be one of the common denominators to all of our defencive problems communication, all th emore difficult to understand though because they all have bags of experience playing together.

Was it Carsley?s voice that held it all together last season?
Larry Bird
73   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:33:19

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I can?t agree with everyone here saying that Jags was excellent. Personally I think he is very limited. He humps the ball forward at every opportunity. He can?t pass (or maybe doesn?t want to pass) the ball. This is shown up when he plays in midfield but he gets away with it when playing at the back.

We need footballers at this level. As much as I admire his commitment and workrate, I reckon I could line out beside Yobo and hoof the ball forward or into touch any time it comes near me.....
Brian Waring
74   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:42:09

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Good shout that Ian. I reckon Carsley had more of an influence on the back four, than he is given credit for.
Tom Campbell
75   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:54:49

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Kiss it goodbye


Michael Hunt
76   Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:39:14

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Another error strewn ’performance’.
Basic ’school boy errors’ cost us yet again :-(
Surely Howard must have yelled ’LEAVE IT’ to Yobo??
Lescott seemed to consistently be more concerned with charging forward than making sure it was tight at the back...surely Moyes made it clear that away goals can count double?!
Our squad is not massive, but it is big enough to shake things up for Hull and remind the lads there IS competition for places. I’d drop Lescott or Yobo and play Baines or Valente at LB vs Hull. I’d also drop Howard and play Nash in goal at Hull.
There is no point having a squad if you are not going to use it when the guys in possession of the jersey are seriously underperforming.
Still, if we can get Pienaar back for the second leg and Saha up front with the Yak I’m confident that Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar, Yak and Saha are bursting with goals as a combo. If they are on the pitch, the back line (with Castillo in DM protecting them) just need to keep it tight at the back and let the lads in front of them work their magic.
We can get through, but only if we plug the huge leaks at the back! COYB.
Ian Hams
77   Posted 18/09/2008 at 23:28:42

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Michael. Agree 100%.
Dave Turner
78   Posted 18/09/2008 at 23:40:03

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/e/everton/7624326.stm

^maybe Moyes signing at least, will be the news the players need to see us through.
Matthew Salem
79   Posted 19/09/2008 at 02:27:00

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Fuck!

I want to cry! I can?t believe how shitty our defense is. We will need to score at least 2 goals in Liege since there is no way we?ll keep a clean sheet there. Fuck!
Trevor Lynes
80   Posted 19/09/2008 at 06:05:48

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I said a week ago that Baines should be tried in FRONT of Lescott as he is by FAR the best left sided wide player we have on the books. His crossing was really good against Pompey but no one got on the end of them Cahill would feed off those sort of crosses. If Baines is not played when Fellaini is not eligible, then he will never get a game. It was obvious that Osman is just back from injury and Cahill is still not ready for 90 mins of football. We obviously need another outlet with flair as we are relying far too much on Arteta and that makes our play one dimensional. OK, we didn?t get Moutinho so we will have to wait until Peanuts is fit because there is no-one else with vision apart from Mikel.
Alex Taylor
81   Posted 19/09/2008 at 08:26:45

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Clean sheet is vital against Hull for their own sakes. The more goals our back four leak, the less confident they will feel, the more likely thet are to let in clangers.

That’s two own-goals in two games.
Andy Callan
82   Posted 19/09/2008 at 10:47:56

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OUT.

Everton FC will never win anything ever again, unless we get someone in with a bit of cash....
Andy Mack
83   Posted 19/09/2008 at 14:20:48

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Trying to look at this positively, we didn’t get beat last night when we probably deserved a 2-3 or 2-4 defeat and be out of it.

Howard was ill, Cahill was a passenger, Ossie was half fit, we scored a stupid OG, Lescott... well.

We need to go over to Liege looking for a high scoring draw or a win, Moyesy must realise there is no way we’re going to squeeze a tight 0-1 victory so will be telling the lads to go for it. The lads surely don’t want to be out of it at this stage already and will want to go for it.

Anchibe on the wing was a revelation, his play has come on in leaps and bounds since the olympics he no longer has just one dimension, as opposed to Vaughn who was so gunning for it his play suffered last night.

IF Saha is fit, the script is written for him in the reverse fixture, Saha Yak up front Arteta or VDM plus Anchibe on the wings... that combo has goals written all over it and we need just two but a thrilling 2-4 victory will do me.

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