The Mail Bag
Lescott
Comments (83)
Lescott is a fantastic player and had a great season last but IMHO he has looked really shaky and I think it would be a good idea if he spent a few games on the bench to give him a kick up the ass!!! I know Moyes is very loyal to his players but the defence needs a good shake up and some time on the bench might make Lescott realise he can't ride on last season's performances.
Yusuf Bobat, Posted 18/09/2008 at 22:46:56
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Totally agree ...................Lescott has an absolute shocker in the 1st half against Liege. And although he improved slightly in the 2nd half, he was very lucky for his clumsy challenge at the end not to be a penalty. Moyesy needs to have a couple of words into his shell like.......
Lescott is have a terrible start to the season, losing concentration in almost every game! Injury, personal problem or not match-fit?
I noticed on Sky that Moyes has stated the performance of the defence is getting to the stage where he will have to take a look at it. He must have put work into it at training over the last few weeks so I’m guessing he is hinting at changing the line up.
I’m a young bloke from Australia and we don’t have a pay tv hook up at my unit so I unfortunaltley miss a few games. Would be interested to hear peoples ratings of all the back four against Liege.
I’m a young bloke from Australia and we don’t have a pay tv hook up at my unit so I unfortunaltley miss a few games. Would be interested to hear peoples ratings of all the back four against Liege.
Gotta get yourself onto www.myp2p.eu to watch like me :) Have pay tv aswell but the Everton game wasn’t on it last night in Aus.
Lescott - 5 : I’m not sure what I’m really giving him even five for. But his tracking back is nowhere near as good as it was before, he’s letting attackers get all over him. If there’s a fast striker afoot, Lescott just doesn’t have the pace. Imagine when we play Fulham and Johnson takes advantage of this. Forward? Appalling.
Jagielka - 8 : Fortunately we had one solid defender in our back line. When he was back in defence he was able to deal with things. Unfortunately the other three were all involved in the scoring of the two goals as he must have been out of the back four at the time.
Yobo - 6 : Seriously there was a lack of talk in the back line. Perhaps Howard is as much to blame last night on the 2nd event. I’ve seen some shocking own goals in the past week and this isn’t an exemption.
Neville - 7 : Least looked to be playing a good game last night, but I’m sure it was he who couldn’t match the pace and keep the first striker out of the contest, when they scored the first goal. But he looked good coming up the right side last night.
Lescott - 5 : I’m not sure what I’m really giving him even five for. But his tracking back is nowhere near as good as it was before, he’s letting attackers get all over him. If there’s a fast striker afoot, Lescott just doesn’t have the pace. Imagine when we play Fulham and Johnson takes advantage of this. Forward? Appalling.
Jagielka - 8 : Fortunately we had one solid defender in our back line. When he was back in defence he was able to deal with things. Unfortunately the other three were all involved in the scoring of the two goals as he must have been out of the back four at the time.
Yobo - 6 : Seriously there was a lack of talk in the back line. Perhaps Howard is as much to blame last night on the 2nd event. I’ve seen some shocking own goals in the past week and this isn’t an exemption.
Neville - 7 : Least looked to be playing a good game last night, but I’m sure it was he who couldn’t match the pace and keep the first striker out of the contest, when they scored the first goal. But he looked good coming up the right side last night.
Totally agree.
In fact the whole back line need a kick up the backside. Jags is just about getting away with it at the moment but Yobo and Lescott are playing like donkeys. Watched the Portsmouth game beforehand and thought what a find ?arrys come up with yet again in Belhadj the leftback. Played like a seasoned pro at 19. Superquick and a damn sight more mobile than Lescott. Having said that I think Yobo?s howler was partly Howard?s fault. On the good side, what a cracking goal from Castillo.
In fact the whole back line need a kick up the backside. Jags is just about getting away with it at the moment but Yobo and Lescott are playing like donkeys. Watched the Portsmouth game beforehand and thought what a find ?arrys come up with yet again in Belhadj the leftback. Played like a seasoned pro at 19. Superquick and a damn sight more mobile than Lescott. Having said that I think Yobo?s howler was partly Howard?s fault. On the good side, what a cracking goal from Castillo.
Thanks for the tip and the ratings Mike.
It?ll be a tall order but if Peanuts and Saha are available come the 2nd leg and the back 4 can get their act together we are in with a good chance of getting a result.
It?ll be a tall order but if Peanuts and Saha are available come the 2nd leg and the back 4 can get their act together we are in with a good chance of getting a result.
Lescotts problem seems to be that he is playing LB and in getting done time and time again by a through ball on his inside and the attacker outpacing him on the outside! He was done at least 3 times last night on the outside by their right winger (Delmat?). This also happened twice against Stoke as well, and one instance against Stoke that sticks in my head is when he didnt deal with a dangerous ball (stick it in row Z) and almost gave away a goal, just like Giggs when he was trying to shield the ball out for a goal kick in the Man U LIverpool game when Mascerano disposessed him and pulled it back for Tevez’s goal.
I really do rate the guy but these opening few games he has been very poor. I do think though that Jags was quality (especially second half), and also Yobo and Nev even had pretty good games
I really do rate the guy but these opening few games he has been very poor. I do think though that Jags was quality (especially second half), and also Yobo and Nev even had pretty good games
Lescott didn?t have the best of games I agree. I think that the whole defence is missing Carsley. Castillo did well last night, but he doesn?t do the defensive job Carsley did. Jags was superb last night, as was Osman.
We looked excellent going forward though. Osman?s flick for the first goal was absolutely class. Hopefully with a bit more time on the training ground...
COYB!
We looked excellent going forward though. Osman?s flick for the first goal was absolutely class. Hopefully with a bit more time on the training ground...
COYB!
I used to slate Carsley for his lack of ability on the ball but now I’m thinking you don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone. I think Cars was the reason we were tight at the back - he allowed the fullbacks to get forward because he was there for cover. Castillo played well in a midfield role last night but was not acting as cover for Lescott or Neville when they got forward. I think this is the reason Lescott kept getting caught. Moyes needs to take some blame for this rather than everyone getting on Lescott’s back.
I also think the Liege coach did his homework on us. He knew we like to attack by committing our fullbacks into advanced positions so he pushed his wingers right up the pitch to get in behind them. With that fella Dufour, they had a good passer who could find their pacey wingers on the break. In the seond half, Moyes didn’t let the fullbacks get too far forward so Liege just sat back and nullified any attacking threat from us.
If Moyes thinks he’s worth £3.5 million then he certainly has to earn it in the away leg.
I also think the Liege coach did his homework on us. He knew we like to attack by committing our fullbacks into advanced positions so he pushed his wingers right up the pitch to get in behind them. With that fella Dufour, they had a good passer who could find their pacey wingers on the break. In the seond half, Moyes didn’t let the fullbacks get too far forward so Liege just sat back and nullified any attacking threat from us.
If Moyes thinks he’s worth £3.5 million then he certainly has to earn it in the away leg.
Tim Howard cannot command his penalty area and I think this is putting the defence at even more unease. He needed to give Yobo a shout last night and it may have stopped him lunging in and scoring the own goal. How many times over this season and last have we seen a situation where Howard only needs to communicate with his defence to prevent a goal being scored? This is very worrying. I also agree that Lescott is having a torrid time at the moment ? is he carrying an injury?
Lescott and Howard both had a nightmare in my oppinion, basic errors all over the shop! They both done themselves justice in rare stages, Lescott on the line and a couple of last ditch tackles, Howard having to save a cheeky unexpected back-heel. Overall not good enough.
Arteta, PISS POOR. Everytime he got the ball he would either attempt a defence splitting ball and lose possession or first, go round a player, and then do the same and lose the ball. Not good enough in my opinion, looks good on the eye but he started to piss me off ALOT! This is not the first time for this either, personally I think Pienaar is a better team player and I would get rid of Arteta for anything over 15m+ if the offer came in.
On the good side, The Jag played immense! Castillo was box to box most of the game cleaning up and Anichebe put himself about well. The Yak looked dangerous and Osman continues to surprise me with his silky feet and hard work.
Cahill wasn’t really in it (match fit?) Vaughan looked as eager as ever.
Lastly, Yobo and Neville were OK but I would expect more from Yobo.
I think Moyes needs to shake up a few of the first team regulars as they need to realise the only player who can relax and become lazy when playing for Everton is the Yak. I think it plays to his advantage in a similar way to Berbatov. Doesn’t chase a lost cause but every time there is a serious chance he busts a gut. It’s a strikers trait and only a strikers!
On a positive thought for Lescott, how good is he going forward? I would have to think about Baines at LB and Lescott LM.
Arteta, PISS POOR. Everytime he got the ball he would either attempt a defence splitting ball and lose possession or first, go round a player, and then do the same and lose the ball. Not good enough in my opinion, looks good on the eye but he started to piss me off ALOT! This is not the first time for this either, personally I think Pienaar is a better team player and I would get rid of Arteta for anything over 15m+ if the offer came in.
On the good side, The Jag played immense! Castillo was box to box most of the game cleaning up and Anichebe put himself about well. The Yak looked dangerous and Osman continues to surprise me with his silky feet and hard work.
Cahill wasn’t really in it (match fit?) Vaughan looked as eager as ever.
Lastly, Yobo and Neville were OK but I would expect more from Yobo.
I think Moyes needs to shake up a few of the first team regulars as they need to realise the only player who can relax and become lazy when playing for Everton is the Yak. I think it plays to his advantage in a similar way to Berbatov. Doesn’t chase a lost cause but every time there is a serious chance he busts a gut. It’s a strikers trait and only a strikers!
On a positive thought for Lescott, how good is he going forward? I would have to think about Baines at LB and Lescott LM.
Last season we would of won this game 2-0. Two individual defensive errors that cost us. Overall ball retention in my opinion was head and shoulders above some of last years performances. Maybe it's time Moyes rested a couple of players (Lescott, Yobo?).
Totally agree with the original post.
What I?m finding it difficult to understand is how a defender who must have been one of last seasons best defenders in the whole of the Premiership can turn in performances that remind me of an old mate who played Sunday league with me many years ago. Some of his errors last were atrocious (Lescott?s I mean) and amateurish... definitely something wrong there.
The defence as a whole this season (I know it?s early days) has looked nothing like the reliable, confident outfit we saw for the vast majority of last season.
Liege last night were no slouches, but an Everton team playing to their strengths and playing to their potential would have seen them off.
Having said that the return is not totally beyond us.... unless we perform like last night again!
What I?m finding it difficult to understand is how a defender who must have been one of last seasons best defenders in the whole of the Premiership can turn in performances that remind me of an old mate who played Sunday league with me many years ago. Some of his errors last were atrocious (Lescott?s I mean) and amateurish... definitely something wrong there.
The defence as a whole this season (I know it?s early days) has looked nothing like the reliable, confident outfit we saw for the vast majority of last season.
Liege last night were no slouches, but an Everton team playing to their strengths and playing to their potential would have seen them off.
Having said that the return is not totally beyond us.... unless we perform like last night again!
What’s Arteta’s excuse for his shit crossing this season? It’s the same old crap from him not clearing the first man time and time again. Surely someone else should take our set pieces now?
To be fair to Lescott he had no cover down the left last night. Arteta doesn?t getback enough and help out. Ok,maybe that?s not his game but it has to be done. I would have put Arteta on the right,Baines down the left and had Tim further forward just behind the Yak.
On a different note, as I left the ground and walked down Andrew St, opposite the church, there was a big black Audi A8 with a couple of chauffers/security blokes, and two luxury Mercedes people carriers, all with blacked out windows, parked in the residents' parking bays,and all with the same "HX" personalised number plates. Anyone any idea who they were? The Indian family? Just wondering, never seen them there before....
Although he was quite poor last night, judging on his performances in that position over time, I think Lescott is still the best left back at the club .
However, I also thought Yobo was again quite poor and maybe dropping him for Lescott and bringing back Baines at left back is a solution.
Finally, besides dodgy defending, which can be sorted out, I think we coped with Standard far better than Liverpool did and I am quite confident that we will win the return leg.
However, I also thought Yobo was again quite poor and maybe dropping him for Lescott and bringing back Baines at left back is a solution.
Finally, besides dodgy defending, which can be sorted out, I think we coped with Standard far better than Liverpool did and I am quite confident that we will win the return leg.
Alan, Arteta set up two with his crossing at Stoke, set up one home to Blackburn and scored direct from a free kick, as well as being instrumental in goals last night and at WBA with his passing. Not bad really don’t you think, just 5 games into the season?
I agree though that he needs to miss the first man more often.
I agree though that he needs to miss the first man more often.
The indians representatives were indeed there last night, As I along with others viewed them from the Brain Labone Suite...
They left after an Hour...
They left after an Hour...
Lescott had a nightmare game. Yobo was given his first chance by Standard Leige and gave them their chance last night with the own goal. As for Cahill - if it hadn?t have been for Vaughan getting in his way on two occasions, Timmy would probably have got two header goals. Howard does not seem as dependable as usual. Mikel?s free kicks were all to pot. Let's all get on our knees and pray to do well in Belgium but it looks like a foregone conclusion unfortunatey!! Any ideas how many yellow cards were issued to Standard Leige last night? We did not seem to have many but they seemed to have a lot.
Watching Lescott I had the thought that he looked like a guy who just didn’t want to be there. Maybe the summer of uncertainty pushed him over the edge and he has decided he’d like to take his talents elsewhere.
As for Arteta, he has all the tricks but his final delivery is just too inconsistent for Premiership football. This is what probably keeps him out of the Spanish squad.
As for Arteta, he has all the tricks but his final delivery is just too inconsistent for Premiership football. This is what probably keeps him out of the Spanish squad.
Lescott was poor last night, their winger got in behind him and ran riot at will. I think Davey needs to make a decision, just because you have 3 outstanding centre-halves dosnt mean you have to play all 3 with the least worst at left-back playing there. If you pay £6 million for a guy then surely he should be a better option.
On the subject of Lescott, why the hell wasn’t he in the box for the corners (assuming Mikey could ever clear the first defender of course!), he got a hat-ful of goals for us off them last year.
On the subject of Lescott, why the hell wasn’t he in the box for the corners (assuming Mikey could ever clear the first defender of course!), he got a hat-ful of goals for us off them last year.
Every player goes through bad patches. I just hope Jolean is getting his out of the way early doors and that his confidence is not shattered by it. Lots of good points raised above regarding lack of cover for the defence and I have to agree that we seem to be shaky at the very back because of it.
On a plus point, the boy Castillio looks like he will fit in very nicely and this will give the midfield a boost.
I think we can win the tie, but it will be hard going to their place with two away goals against us. What is certain is that we cannot defend as poorly against them again, or it will be a very short European journey this season.
On a plus point, the boy Castillio looks like he will fit in very nicely and this will give the midfield a boost.
I think we can win the tie, but it will be hard going to their place with two away goals against us. What is certain is that we cannot defend as poorly against them again, or it will be a very short European journey this season.
I was at the game last night and Lescott undoubtedly cost us this tie. He didn?t even look fit ffs. He kept standing with his hands on his knees catching his breath. He kept drifting towards the centre of the box rather than staying wide to close down the winger. Although to be fair, Arteta provided no cover at all, for the second goal he watched the midfielder run past him!
Arteta?s set pieces have been better but the same old story again from corners, couldn?t beat the first man. Why not just whip them in then or let someone else take it? Little Leon Osman had a cracker, some nice through balls and neat passing. But we lacked the killer pass that Pienaar usually provides.
There was no closing down on the edge of the box either. They let their midfield run through us but wouldn?t close down, almost inviting them to shoot. They probably should have scored more to be honest.
We need to drop Lescott, but the only problem there is Baines can?t defend either and Valente is even slower. Castillo had a good game and took his goal well. I remember when Lee Carsley would score them like that!
Simon - I agree with you about Lescott but what can we do with Valente being past it and Baines such utter shite.
Sorry Lee, I take your point but Arteta’s crossing last night was woeful and if he wants to be considered a top class player he needs to be able to supply good crosses on a consistent basis. Last night he looked like he’d been taking lessons from Tony Hibbert.
To Russell Buckley - Have you tried:
www.justin.tv
You can watch all sorts on there, it?s live streaming rather than p2p.
www.justin.tv
You can watch all sorts on there, it?s live streaming rather than p2p.
Lescott is having a bad patch in his two years at Everton, everyone has them and he will recover. He?s a quality player and a model of consistency usually. I have no doubts that he?ll improve.
I wouldn?t drop him to be honest. Baines v Dalmat would have been a lot worse, Dalmat would have tore him apart even more than he ripped Lescott apart.
I wouldn?t drop him to be honest. Baines v Dalmat would have been a lot worse, Dalmat would have tore him apart even more than he ripped Lescott apart.
Arteta was our best player last night followed closely by Castillo. I did get a bit annoyed when I think was about 3 of his corners didn't clear the first defender but apart from that he was immense all they could do to stop him was kick the shit out of him. He scared them every time he got on the ball, he could let someone else take a few corners I suppose but who?!
Anyway, to say we should sell him is a bloody joke! Especially after how much we?ve struggled getting players in. I'd love to see who we?d get to replace him? Darren Anderton's up for one last crack at the Prem, I've heard!!
Maybe someone should tell Lescott that we play in Blue. He gave the ball away with virtually every pass. Shocker. Castillo is a star.
That back four is our best back four and I think the deserve a little bit longer to get their confidence back before dropping someone. I?m sure as soon as we get our first clean sheet the confidence will shoot up but our keeper is certainly not helping with things sitting on his line all game.
Lescott was very poor last night, in fact he has been awful from the 1st game of the season. He has been given a chance to play in his favoured position in the center and didn’t do well now he is playing left back and there is no improvement. I’m sorry but at this level the only option is to drop him and let someone else have a go.
I felt sorry for Yobo’s OG because Howard didn’t help him out. Howard only needed to signal to him to leave it and we would have been fine, oh and did you all notice what side of the field the ball came from, the left? Where was Lescott? Fuck knows.
Arteta played well, but for his set pieces. This is a real problem now as I really don’t see anyone better in the starting 11 that could take them other than Mickey. he also gets me so fustrated when he plays a quick free-kick and gives the ball straight back to the opposition.
Plus points for me where the Yak of course, Jags, Osman looked lively and affective, and finally my Man Of The Match Castillo. I think he is awsome. Think he only gave the ball away once all night, he can tackle and he can play a bit too. He is a freat replacement for Carsley.
I felt sorry for Yobo’s OG because Howard didn’t help him out. Howard only needed to signal to him to leave it and we would have been fine, oh and did you all notice what side of the field the ball came from, the left? Where was Lescott? Fuck knows.
Arteta played well, but for his set pieces. This is a real problem now as I really don’t see anyone better in the starting 11 that could take them other than Mickey. he also gets me so fustrated when he plays a quick free-kick and gives the ball straight back to the opposition.
Plus points for me where the Yak of course, Jags, Osman looked lively and affective, and finally my Man Of The Match Castillo. I think he is awsome. Think he only gave the ball away once all night, he can tackle and he can play a bit too. He is a freat replacement for Carsley.
Put lescott on the bench?
I’ve got a better idea!
How about putting him in his proper fúckin position!!!!!!!!!
eh!, rocket science!
I’ve got a better idea!
How about putting him in his proper fúckin position!!!!!!!!!
eh!, rocket science!
Last night he seemed....um....doped...kind of.
Hopefully, he just had a really off night (it does happen).
I did feel a little nervous though.
When players perform this way, it sometimes means they’ve got ’things on their mind’.
A dangerous, dangerous thing for 99% of footballers.
We know he wants to play centre-half and he said a year or so back "I’ll play where the team wants to play for the moment but..."
I wondered last night if there’d been some pre-match/season nark with Moyes over this.
I also wondered who he might have had whispering sweet nothings in his ear on his Ingurlund trips.
NB: Just because I’m paranoid, doesn’t mean United/Chelsea etc aren’t trying to seduce him.
(shudder - mental picture of Sir Alex in lippy pouting and rubbing his groin)
Hopefully, he just had a really off night (it does happen).
I did feel a little nervous though.
When players perform this way, it sometimes means they’ve got ’things on their mind’.
A dangerous, dangerous thing for 99% of footballers.
We know he wants to play centre-half and he said a year or so back "I’ll play where the team wants to play for the moment but..."
I wondered last night if there’d been some pre-match/season nark with Moyes over this.
I also wondered who he might have had whispering sweet nothings in his ear on his Ingurlund trips.
NB: Just because I’m paranoid, doesn’t mean United/Chelsea etc aren’t trying to seduce him.
(shudder - mental picture of Sir Alex in lippy pouting and rubbing his groin)
Agree with Brett Bradshaw - was thinking the same thing about moving Lescott to left midfield. Going forward he is very dangerous but defensively obviously below par. People are talking about playing Baines left mid but I think JL might perform there. Get forward in those dangerous positions and get back to cover Baines, surely worth a go.
IMO we miss Carsley, big time. Unsung hero! I?m a big fan of his and feel he was the man who kept us strong at the back for the past couple of seasons. If I remember rightly we conceded a lot of goals early last season as well and Cars wasn?t in the side. Can?t remember who was in there instead of him but I do remember sending a comment in to get Cars back in the side to sure things up. Within a couple of weeks though he was in the side and we started performing better. Castillo looks good but he?s got big boots to fill.
Howard?s not going to get anywhere near Big Nev?s clean sheet record this season unless he starts to communicate with his defenders. Can?t blame Joey unless he got a shout from Tim, and that we?ll never know.
Back to basics lads!
It really quite amazes me that people are syaing jags was great.... In my opinion, he had exactly the same game as Lescott: atrocious in the first half; reasonable in the second. Jags made one successful tackle in the whole of the first half and gave the ball away trying to play it out of defence.
The only difference between the two is that Jags was alledgedly playing his position - while Lescott was not... he was playing someone else's position! Yet Lescott get slated.
Jags, and Moyes's obsession with playing him ? no matter what ? is the problem here.
The only difference between the two is that Jags was alledgedly playing his position - while Lescott was not... he was playing someone else's position! Yet Lescott get slated.
Jags, and Moyes's obsession with playing him ? no matter what ? is the problem here.
Lescott’s poor performance last night doesnt appear to me to be anything to do with being played out of position, lack of match fitness, injury carrying, or anything else like that.
He simply didn’t put his foot in enough and tackle, and never closed down.
He kept backing off the players to the point of giving them enough time and space to waltz past or put a ball in. Most of the time he was being pulled straight back in to the penalty area rather than dealing with 20 yards away.
Why this is I do not know. But I spent most of the match screaming at him to "close him down" or "put a foot in".
He simply didn’t put his foot in enough and tackle, and never closed down.
He kept backing off the players to the point of giving them enough time and space to waltz past or put a ball in. Most of the time he was being pulled straight back in to the penalty area rather than dealing with 20 yards away.
Why this is I do not know. But I spent most of the match screaming at him to "close him down" or "put a foot in".
ps:
The Liege No 9 looked sheer quality. Was a constant handful, and even though Yobo started to pick him up in the 2nd half, he was pivotal to everything they did.
Wish we could buy him.
The Liege No 9 looked sheer quality. Was a constant handful, and even though Yobo started to pick him up in the 2nd half, he was pivotal to everything they did.
Wish we could buy him.
Problem is at the moment Lescott is confused, is he a centre-back, a left back, or a left winger?
Hes playing like he doesn't know.
Lescott is a class player but this season he seems to think he can do it all. Maybe got a bit too big headed?
Moyes needs to keep him in one position he needs to go back to basics and just bloody think/concentrate a bit more. Maybe when the back 4 settles down it will all fall into place.
But also it's possible were being tactically done by clever managers who know Lescott likes to get forward and so are planning a ball in behind the missing fullback.
Whatever the situation, our best back four is and always will be.
Neville Yobo Jags Lescott
However, anichebe on the wing is a big no no. Was thinking last night how good it would have been to use Andy Johnson as a winger.
Hes playing like he doesn't know.
Lescott is a class player but this season he seems to think he can do it all. Maybe got a bit too big headed?
Moyes needs to keep him in one position he needs to go back to basics and just bloody think/concentrate a bit more. Maybe when the back 4 settles down it will all fall into place.
But also it's possible were being tactically done by clever managers who know Lescott likes to get forward and so are planning a ball in behind the missing fullback.
Whatever the situation, our best back four is and always will be.
Neville Yobo Jags Lescott
However, anichebe on the wing is a big no no. Was thinking last night how good it would have been to use Andy Johnson as a winger.
Jeremy,
A full back has to defend differently from a centre half. Lescott is great at stopping players coming at him towards goal...he is not great at tracking players down the line....or getting back into position for that matter when he attacks as a full back.
He is PLAYED OUT OF POSITION. That is a fact.
And it is affecting his defensive game...he needs to be player to his strengths...and we are not doing that...to be honest i wouldnt blame either him or baines if they left...
Poor team management from moyes.
A full back has to defend differently from a centre half. Lescott is great at stopping players coming at him towards goal...he is not great at tracking players down the line....or getting back into position for that matter when he attacks as a full back.
He is PLAYED OUT OF POSITION. That is a fact.
And it is affecting his defensive game...he needs to be player to his strengths...and we are not doing that...to be honest i wouldnt blame either him or baines if they left...
Poor team management from moyes.
Lescott has never proven himself here as a consistent centre half, he’s never actually looked consistently comfortble in a partnership with any player ranging from Stubbs, Jags and Yobo.
He’s made a name for himself at left back, he broke into the England team as a left back and he won player of the year because he played for the majority of the season at left back.
As far as I’m concerned until he proves differently his best position is at left back, it doesn’t really matter where he wants to play. Moyes is playing him in the position he’s revelled in, it’s not bad management at all to be honest.
Who would you play left back Ciaran? Leighton Baines has proven time and time again that he can’t defend. If he wants to leave let him leave, Moyes has given him chances and he’s proven against both Steven Reid and Glen Johnson that he is vulnerable defensively. That’s his main job at the end of the day, he’s failed to do it.
Lescott is having a bad patch in his excellent Everton career, that is all. It happens to every player in the Leauge, players have sticky patches where they make key mistakes.
He’ll get back to his best, he’s one of the best left backs in the League as he’s proven over the last 2 seasons. His individual performances have nothing to do with Moyes.
He’s made a name for himself at left back, he broke into the England team as a left back and he won player of the year because he played for the majority of the season at left back.
As far as I’m concerned until he proves differently his best position is at left back, it doesn’t really matter where he wants to play. Moyes is playing him in the position he’s revelled in, it’s not bad management at all to be honest.
Who would you play left back Ciaran? Leighton Baines has proven time and time again that he can’t defend. If he wants to leave let him leave, Moyes has given him chances and he’s proven against both Steven Reid and Glen Johnson that he is vulnerable defensively. That’s his main job at the end of the day, he’s failed to do it.
Lescott is having a bad patch in his excellent Everton career, that is all. It happens to every player in the Leauge, players have sticky patches where they make key mistakes.
He’ll get back to his best, he’s one of the best left backs in the League as he’s proven over the last 2 seasons. His individual performances have nothing to do with Moyes.
They all need a kick up the arse. Lescott has done the same thing a few times already this season, rather than put the ball into row Z he lets the player get his cross in and it causes problems. Although seeing the replay on that first goal Phil Neville was piss poor he stood still and watched his man move into the empty space for a tap in. He should be striving to get back there and the likelihood is it stays at 1-0. For the second goal Tim Howard should have called Yobo to leave it, Howard came out to collect the ball and if he?s going to do that he?s got to tell his teammate to leave it.
Moyes has a problem now because he?s played Lescott out of position for too long and it will take him a while to get used to playing centre back again if that?s what Moyes chooses to do. Moyes plays players out of position far too often for my liking and it means that we don?t get the best out of the team.
I?m not denying Lescott is a bad left back and he had a great season last year, but let's look at other players he plays out of position; Jagielka centre mid, Neville centre mid, Anichebe right mid, Arteta and Osman out wide rather than in their natural position in the middle. It boils down to the fact that Moyes hasn?t brought players in in these positions, so he has to play players out of position.
Come on guys ? let's ease up a little and remember that Everton had the hardest draw of the round compared with other English Clubs. Standard Liege is the team who nearly knocked Liverpool out in the Champions League. What I want to know is how do we always get the short end of the stick ? why didn?t someone else draw them!!!
Bollocks!
The first season he was here and the first third of last season.... Lescott was immense at centre half.
Only when Moyes realised that Jags was a liability in the middle did Lescott get the short sharp shift to left back!
Never proven himself at centre half indeed!
I?ve never heard so much shít in my life.
The first season he was here and the first third of last season.... Lescott was immense at centre half.
Only when Moyes realised that Jags was a liability in the middle did Lescott get the short sharp shift to left back!
Never proven himself at centre half indeed!
I?ve never heard so much shít in my life.
He is out of position and we now don't have Carsley any more. Castillo seems better going forward if you ask me, therefore leaving no-one protecting the back four.
If Arteta was a left winger and Lescott was a left back, then we would have cause to complain at both these players; they?re not and we haven?t.
If Arteta was a left winger and Lescott was a left back, then we would have cause to complain at both these players; they?re not and we haven?t.
And how exactly has Baines proven time and time again that he cant defend?
He hasnt had a bloody consistent run in the team since he got here... and the couple of ames he did get at the start of this season, he was the best player on the pitch - offensively and defensively!
He hasnt had a bloody consistent run in the team since he got here... and the couple of ames he did get at the start of this season, he was the best player on the pitch - offensively and defensively!
I think Lescott needs time on the bench (similar to what we did with yobo in his 2nd/3rd season). He just needs to get his head back. Give Baines a chance at left back and then possibly bring Lescott back in to the centre. Yobo still lacks concentration, and it hasnt (as we used to keep hoping) improved with age.
Ciarán McGlone, he played more at left back than he did at centre half in his first season, he was a far better influence at left back. Our defence never looked comfortable without Stubbs in it.
In his second season he was shaky when he started at centre back and him and Yobo couldn’t gel. Jagielka came in and shored everything up, Lescott moved to Left back and was a force by in a attacking sense and defensively very good.
So no he hasn’t ever proven himself a consistent centre back for Everton, some excellent games yes but also some very poor games. That’s my consistent my friend.
Even when Baines was playing well I had my doubts whether he could defend. He’d get outmuscled by the winger alot and his willingness to get forward left alot of of space which exposed us. He’s a luxury to have in an attacking sense but as a defender his presence does not help the team at all, he unbalances everything.
You have to show something to get a chance in the team. Baines came back against West Ham and Derby last season and looked very shaky, he was shaky in pre-season and he looked a fool against a fullback (Glen Johnson) and a centre mid playing on the wing (Steven Reid).
I’m not convinced he is a good defender at all, I’m quite positive he isn’t a good defender. He’s a good player yes, a positive attacking fullback but he doesn’t do the basics, defending which is his job at the end of the day.
I don’t see how it’s bad management on Moyes’s behalf to be honest. He’s playing Lescott in a position he’s looked excellent in for two years, that comment is just bollocks to be honest.
Lescott is having a bad patch in his Everton career, that is all.
In his second season he was shaky when he started at centre back and him and Yobo couldn’t gel. Jagielka came in and shored everything up, Lescott moved to Left back and was a force by in a attacking sense and defensively very good.
So no he hasn’t ever proven himself a consistent centre back for Everton, some excellent games yes but also some very poor games. That’s my consistent my friend.
Even when Baines was playing well I had my doubts whether he could defend. He’d get outmuscled by the winger alot and his willingness to get forward left alot of of space which exposed us. He’s a luxury to have in an attacking sense but as a defender his presence does not help the team at all, he unbalances everything.
You have to show something to get a chance in the team. Baines came back against West Ham and Derby last season and looked very shaky, he was shaky in pre-season and he looked a fool against a fullback (Glen Johnson) and a centre mid playing on the wing (Steven Reid).
I’m not convinced he is a good defender at all, I’m quite positive he isn’t a good defender. He’s a good player yes, a positive attacking fullback but he doesn’t do the basics, defending which is his job at the end of the day.
I don’t see how it’s bad management on Moyes’s behalf to be honest. He’s playing Lescott in a position he’s looked excellent in for two years, that comment is just bollocks to be honest.
Lescott is having a bad patch in his Everton career, that is all.
How many of the Tim Howard slaters were close enough to hear whether he shouted at Yobo? It's all well and good saying he should have shouted, but maybe he did and Yobo ignored it!!!! Also will people stop saying he doesn't command his box. He does. He came and claimed a couple of good crosses last night. And as I have said before, he does a rare thing of a foreign goalkeeper and that's he catches crosses rather than punching them to the edge of the box.
Lescott didn't play more at left than centre in his first season! he onyl played there when stubbs was fit or Valente or Pistone out!
And he was not shaky with Yobo at the start of his second... the person who was shaky was Jags...and to cover up the fact that he bought a dud... Moyes moved Jags to centre half and sacrificed lescott!
There's no point being revinsionist about the past... Lescot is a proven centre half...and i dont think you?d find many people who agree with your synopsis!
You don?t see how it's bad management because your not facing up to the facts: Moyes plays people out of position to accommodate a certain set of untouchables... even if it means not using our most effective players in their most effective positions ? that's poor management.
And he was not shaky with Yobo at the start of his second... the person who was shaky was Jags...and to cover up the fact that he bought a dud... Moyes moved Jags to centre half and sacrificed lescott!
There's no point being revinsionist about the past... Lescot is a proven centre half...and i dont think you?d find many people who agree with your synopsis!
You don?t see how it's bad management because your not facing up to the facts: Moyes plays people out of position to accommodate a certain set of untouchables... even if it means not using our most effective players in their most effective positions ? that's poor management.
IMO - the ratings for last night were :
Tim Howard 6 - still looks like he is lacking a bit of confidence, and was at fault for the second goal, but still rate him as our no.1
Phil Neville - 7 - I thought he had a good game getting forward as much as possible and also doing his defensive duties well.
Joseph Yobo - 6 - a bit of an off day for Yobo
Jags - 8 - thought he was excellent
Lescott - 3 - thought he was abysmal last night ... did he think he was playing left wing. I think since he has got in the Engalnd squad he thonks hes a pre-maddona, sort it out Lescott.
Arteta - 7 - I thought he took the piss out of Standard Liege, his proble is his delivery.
Osman - 6 - thought he played well
Castillo - 6 - hes lookig better with each match ... and what a goal
Cahill - 6 - did well enough , always dangerous
Anichibe - 7- thought he was playing really well till he was carried off
Yakubu - 7 - always a danger ... played well again
Tim Howard 6 - still looks like he is lacking a bit of confidence, and was at fault for the second goal, but still rate him as our no.1
Phil Neville - 7 - I thought he had a good game getting forward as much as possible and also doing his defensive duties well.
Joseph Yobo - 6 - a bit of an off day for Yobo
Jags - 8 - thought he was excellent
Lescott - 3 - thought he was abysmal last night ... did he think he was playing left wing. I think since he has got in the Engalnd squad he thonks hes a pre-maddona, sort it out Lescott.
Arteta - 7 - I thought he took the piss out of Standard Liege, his proble is his delivery.
Osman - 6 - thought he played well
Castillo - 6 - hes lookig better with each match ... and what a goal
Cahill - 6 - did well enough , always dangerous
Anichibe - 7- thought he was playing really well till he was carried off
Yakubu - 7 - always a danger ... played well again
Is it just my humble opinion - or have Everton got absolutely nothing creative to offer down either flank?? On the right, we have Phil Neville, who can?t be faulted for his willingness, but every single time he gets the ball to feet, he has to come inside onto his left and then cross a ball that is easy for defenders to deal with. And on the right, there?s Lescott, who lacks pace, technique and guile, but again, cannot be faulted for effort.
The sooner we either buy some flair - abundant wide - men, or get Pienaar back on the left and move Arteta to the right, the better!
Is that the same Tim Howard that punched the ball to Stoke’s first goal scorer? It was an easy catch.
I think when the whole defence plays like crap along with the goalie, the manager needs to take the blame. It’s his job to sort them out. He was completely outwitted last night, Moyes and he needs to sort a lot of crap out if we want to progress in this competition. The amount of times players got caught in posession or just played a loose pass leaving us in a vulnerable position defensively was unbelievable. Liege were strong on the counter Moyes sent his team out completely unaware of this.
I think when the whole defence plays like crap along with the goalie, the manager needs to take the blame. It’s his job to sort them out. He was completely outwitted last night, Moyes and he needs to sort a lot of crap out if we want to progress in this competition. The amount of times players got caught in posession or just played a loose pass leaving us in a vulnerable position defensively was unbelievable. Liege were strong on the counter Moyes sent his team out completely unaware of this.
Lescott has got to sort himself out I think - he’s suffering from a lack of concentration and confidence.
Mikey was driving me mad last night. The number of dead balls he put into the first defender was ridiculous. He still offers us the biggest threat but I saw him take about 5 free kicks from good areas so quickly and casually that went straight to them and we were out of formation as a result when Standard broke. I think he needs a bollocking to be honest for that.
Howard has got to start commanding his box like he did in the first half of last season and talkng/shouting at his defenders.
Castillo looked the part and I thought he played excellently. They’ve got to trust him and play the ball to him more. That’ll take a while to sink in as they weren’t used to Carsley being able to do anything other than break up play and pass it backwards/sideways/skyways!!
We can still get a result in Belgium and the team are only going to get better as they play a few games. Hopefully everything will click against Hull.
Mikey was driving me mad last night. The number of dead balls he put into the first defender was ridiculous. He still offers us the biggest threat but I saw him take about 5 free kicks from good areas so quickly and casually that went straight to them and we were out of formation as a result when Standard broke. I think he needs a bollocking to be honest for that.
Howard has got to start commanding his box like he did in the first half of last season and talkng/shouting at his defenders.
Castillo looked the part and I thought he played excellently. They’ve got to trust him and play the ball to him more. That’ll take a while to sink in as they weren’t used to Carsley being able to do anything other than break up play and pass it backwards/sideways/skyways!!
We can still get a result in Belgium and the team are only going to get better as they play a few games. Hopefully everything will click against Hull.
It wasn’t just Lescott to blame for their 1st goal. What the hell were Nev and Yobo doing letting their striker run through them to tap in?
Lescott played alot of games at left back in his first season, looking back at it I’d actually say it was 50-50. Alan Stubbs did play 24 games that season.
He wasn’t shaky alongside Yobo? I’m guessing you didn’t watch the Reading, Villa, Metalist, Newcastle and Larissa games where they looked clueless, they wheren’t communicating and everyone was asking Moyes to put Stubbs back there. That is a fact, they didn’t do well together at all.
Jagielka wasn’t bought as a midfielder, Moyes made that clear when he bought him. He clearly stated that he was more comfortable playing as a defender, right back or centre back. Jagielka got his chance at centre back and took it, he hasn’t looked back since and he’s been a very good signing. He’s had a positive influence on the back four and best of all he communicates.
I think Lescott is a good centre back, given a run of games maybe he could establish himself there but you have to show promise and merit the position. When he came in against West Ham last season Ashon dominated him, lately Crouch, Defoe and Santa Cruz have took the piss out of him in that position and to be honest he doesn’t look comfortable at all.
We are not in a position where we can mix and match and change players week in week out. That is mostly down to Moyes and Kenwright failing dramatically in the summer. We need a quick fix and we need to push on, the Neville-Yobo-Jagielka-Lescott combination is proven and should be used.
Who is Moyes playing out of position may I ask? Lescott is playing out of his position because he’s a very good left back and he provides good balance in that position.
Who else?
He wasn’t shaky alongside Yobo? I’m guessing you didn’t watch the Reading, Villa, Metalist, Newcastle and Larissa games where they looked clueless, they wheren’t communicating and everyone was asking Moyes to put Stubbs back there. That is a fact, they didn’t do well together at all.
Jagielka wasn’t bought as a midfielder, Moyes made that clear when he bought him. He clearly stated that he was more comfortable playing as a defender, right back or centre back. Jagielka got his chance at centre back and took it, he hasn’t looked back since and he’s been a very good signing. He’s had a positive influence on the back four and best of all he communicates.
I think Lescott is a good centre back, given a run of games maybe he could establish himself there but you have to show promise and merit the position. When he came in against West Ham last season Ashon dominated him, lately Crouch, Defoe and Santa Cruz have took the piss out of him in that position and to be honest he doesn’t look comfortable at all.
We are not in a position where we can mix and match and change players week in week out. That is mostly down to Moyes and Kenwright failing dramatically in the summer. We need a quick fix and we need to push on, the Neville-Yobo-Jagielka-Lescott combination is proven and should be used.
Who is Moyes playing out of position may I ask? Lescott is playing out of his position because he’s a very good left back and he provides good balance in that position.
Who else?
I?ve checked 2006/07, it was nearly 50-50....
20 games in left back
21 in centre half.
The only reason he was moved to the left was to accomodate another of Moyes's favourites... Stubbs!!! Can you see the pattern?
So to suggest he hasn?t proven himself at centre half is ludicrous.
20 games in left back
21 in centre half.
The only reason he was moved to the left was to accomodate another of Moyes's favourites... Stubbs!!! Can you see the pattern?
So to suggest he hasn?t proven himself at centre half is ludicrous.
Ciaran, ’jags was a liability in the middle’. I’m sorry, but that defeats any argument you had. Jags is the best centre half we have, no doubt about that. Lescott and Yobo both switch off at vital moments. Lescott needs taking out the firing line for his own good at the moment. If Baines doesn’t play on sunday he will never figure for us under Moyes...
You clearly have a high opinion of Jags that I don?t agree with. He gets caught out of position regularly (first goal last night) often turns his back on opponents in front of goal... can?t pass and changes our entire style of play with his hoofball... and when he tries to pass out of defence (as we seen early in the first half last night) he has a tendency to give the ball to an opponent in front of goal.
You are also contradicting yourself: you say the neville/yobo/jags/lescott partnership is proven yet it is quite clearly having difficulty so far this season, with Jags responsible for the two goals last week, and possibly being absent on his mark last night. And obviously Yobo and Lescott had problems too... And we had our problems last season too..with Cars glossing over that particular stat.
Out of position:
You are also contradicting yourself: you say the neville/yobo/jags/lescott partnership is proven yet it is quite clearly having difficulty so far this season, with Jags responsible for the two goals last week, and possibly being absent on his mark last night. And obviously Yobo and Lescott had problems too... And we had our problems last season too..with Cars glossing over that particular stat.
Out of position:
- Neville when played in midfield.
- Same with jags
- Lescott (he is not a very good left back - he clumsy going forward and cant cross and we?ve seen the limitations of his defending down the line)
- Vic - is out of position in midfield
- Cahill in a 442 is played out of position
Just because he’s played alot at centre back doesn’t mean he’s proven there. I’ve seen him have alot of good games at centre back but I’ve also seen him look shaky. That isn’t proven, that’s fairly incosistent in my opinion.
All in all he’s played more games at left back, he’s played alot better at left back aswell. He’s consistently been good, both offensively and defensively.
You haven’t answered my question, who else does Moyes wrongly play out of position?
Stubbs played at the back because he had a positive influence on the back four, it was nothing to do with being a favourite.
All in all he’s played more games at left back, he’s played alot better at left back aswell. He’s consistently been good, both offensively and defensively.
You haven’t answered my question, who else does Moyes wrongly play out of position?
Stubbs played at the back because he had a positive influence on the back four, it was nothing to do with being a favourite.
Neville usually played in midfield when we had injury problems, when Osman, Carsley and Cahill where fit that was the first choice partnership. When Fernandes proved himself not to be a liability he also played there. You can only work with what you’ve got, we where light in the centre of midfield.
The same goes for Cahill to be honest, he only plays there when we don’t have any other options. The same goes for Jags.
Lescott is a very good left back, he gets assists from that position and he was part of a back four that’s kept alot of clean sheets over the past two seasons. The balance is right when he plays there, that’s why Moyes does it.
Not a very good left back? Laughable to be honest and I expected better. He got into the England team as a left back, he was our player of the season because he played the majority of the season at left back and against his influence at left back improved us. You have nothing to back up that poor point to be honest, he’s proven time and time again he’s a very good left back.
Victor interchanged between the right and centre, he did a job for the team because we lack wide players. If Pienaar, Osman and possibly even Van der Meyde would have been fit he wouldn’t have been used in that position. Again it comes down to squad depth and what Moyes has to work with.
Any more? Some of your points are laughable to be honest.
The same goes for Cahill to be honest, he only plays there when we don’t have any other options. The same goes for Jags.
Lescott is a very good left back, he gets assists from that position and he was part of a back four that’s kept alot of clean sheets over the past two seasons. The balance is right when he plays there, that’s why Moyes does it.
Not a very good left back? Laughable to be honest and I expected better. He got into the England team as a left back, he was our player of the season because he played the majority of the season at left back and against his influence at left back improved us. You have nothing to back up that poor point to be honest, he’s proven time and time again he’s a very good left back.
Victor interchanged between the right and centre, he did a job for the team because we lack wide players. If Pienaar, Osman and possibly even Van der Meyde would have been fit he wouldn’t have been used in that position. Again it comes down to squad depth and what Moyes has to work with.
Any more? Some of your points are laughable to be honest.
What has Baines got to do to get a game?
Why did Moyes buy him if he is never gonna get a proper chance?
People on here are saying that he looked ’shaky’ in this game, ’shaky’ in that game.....doesnt a player need a run of games to get into it, Felliani and Segundo certainly will
Why did Moyes buy him if he is never gonna get a proper chance?
People on here are saying that he looked ’shaky’ in this game, ’shaky’ in that game.....doesnt a player need a run of games to get into it, Felliani and Segundo certainly will
Danny,
If you read that sentence properly you have realised I meant a liability in the middle of the park.
and Jags is NOT our best defender...he makes more gaffs than most. He?s the only Everton defender I've ever seen turn their back on an attacking player... and of all our defenders; he mistimes the most tackles!
If you read that sentence properly you have realised I meant a liability in the middle of the park.
and Jags is NOT our best defender...he makes more gaffs than most. He?s the only Everton defender I've ever seen turn their back on an attacking player... and of all our defenders; he mistimes the most tackles!
Danny, I think Ciarán was referring to Jags being a liability in the centre mid position. Which he is.
Last night I thought there were positives and negatives. Lescott obviously isn?t playing well at the moment whatever position he is in. Maybe confidence, maybe things on his mind or something. In general terms he?s been quality though, and I?m sure he?ll get back to it in due course. Personally I?d drop him and give baines a run in the side. If baines can?t even get a game when our other left back plays as poor as that then I?m not sure what it should take!
Although Jags had a better second half, I thought he(along with the rest of the back 4) gave the ball away far too often.
We had players in midfield who are all willing to take the ball, yet far too often we bypassed our midfield with long balls that only went back to liege.
I thought Castillo, Osman and Anichebe all had excellent games. Castillo rarely gave the ball away and was able to pass it forwards more effectively than Cars could, as well as having enough mobility, technique and confidence to get himself out awkward situations. His little backheel and his goal also showed he is probably a much better all-round midfielder than many might give him credit for.
Ossie did really well considering he hasn?t played much football and has only just returned from injury. Anichebe worked his socks off and is looking a much better player than we saw last season.
A few weeks ahead, hopefully Pienaar will be fit, Ossie and Cahill will be fully match sharp and maybe Saha will be eligible too. I don't think we can play defensively much worse than we did, so it may well lull the belgians into a false sense of security. I actually think we will go through.
Last night I thought there were positives and negatives. Lescott obviously isn?t playing well at the moment whatever position he is in. Maybe confidence, maybe things on his mind or something. In general terms he?s been quality though, and I?m sure he?ll get back to it in due course. Personally I?d drop him and give baines a run in the side. If baines can?t even get a game when our other left back plays as poor as that then I?m not sure what it should take!
Although Jags had a better second half, I thought he(along with the rest of the back 4) gave the ball away far too often.
We had players in midfield who are all willing to take the ball, yet far too often we bypassed our midfield with long balls that only went back to liege.
I thought Castillo, Osman and Anichebe all had excellent games. Castillo rarely gave the ball away and was able to pass it forwards more effectively than Cars could, as well as having enough mobility, technique and confidence to get himself out awkward situations. His little backheel and his goal also showed he is probably a much better all-round midfielder than many might give him credit for.
Ossie did really well considering he hasn?t played much football and has only just returned from injury. Anichebe worked his socks off and is looking a much better player than we saw last season.
A few weeks ahead, hopefully Pienaar will be fit, Ossie and Cahill will be fully match sharp and maybe Saha will be eligible too. I don't think we can play defensively much worse than we did, so it may well lull the belgians into a false sense of security. I actually think we will go through.
Ciaran... have you been watching the same Everton as the rest of us?
Jags has excelled as Centre half whenever he’s played there. Last night Lescott was to blame for the first, Yobo fucked up on the second (though Howard can be blamed for not screaming for it to be his - and Lescott allowed an easy cross again)... then Lescott was all over the place moments before he tried to make up by fouling the striker (should’ve been a pen).
We’ve looked even worse than that (Pompey match) when Lescott and Yobo are in the middle together!
Phil Neville did have a very good game last night, along with the Yak, Jags and Segundo (though he took a while to get up for it). The rest performed well under par.
We’re defending like a relegation battling side at the moment, but luckily we’re still scoring goals. Can’t see a clean sheet in the near future - not even at Hull. Ouch.
Jags has excelled as Centre half whenever he’s played there. Last night Lescott was to blame for the first, Yobo fucked up on the second (though Howard can be blamed for not screaming for it to be his - and Lescott allowed an easy cross again)... then Lescott was all over the place moments before he tried to make up by fouling the striker (should’ve been a pen).
We’ve looked even worse than that (Pompey match) when Lescott and Yobo are in the middle together!
Phil Neville did have a very good game last night, along with the Yak, Jags and Segundo (though he took a while to get up for it). The rest performed well under par.
We’re defending like a relegation battling side at the moment, but luckily we’re still scoring goals. Can’t see a clean sheet in the near future - not even at Hull. Ouch.
So what your saying conor, is that your measure of ?proven?..is whether you think he?s proven in that position... not very objective is it?
Well, then, in my opinion Jags is also shaky in that position... therefore he?s not proven either.
You asked me who was played out of position, I gave you a list. You seem to have no subsequent point.
Moyes has a penchant for playing people out of position to accomodate his favourites... Neville was first choice midfield until Hibbert got his lengthy lay off....so you?re wrong there.
We had options for four man midfield last night... and still Cahill was in, so you're worng again.
Kissock was sitting on the bench along with Baxter when Jags was played in midfield this season, so you?re wrong yet again.
Interesting that you again contradict yourself: you state that Lescott is somehow NOT proven in centre half even though he had clean sheets, assists and goals from that position... yet you?ll use exactly the same criteria to try and prove that he is proven in left back! Confusing strategy to take ? or should that be contradictory?
ps: when I used the words ?not a very good left back?, I should have used quotes as I was referring to your suggestion that he is ?very good in that position' ? I don't think he is... I think he?s ?good?.... not very good. Drop the superlative and we may have agreement... I do however think he?s a ?very good? centre half!
Well, then, in my opinion Jags is also shaky in that position... therefore he?s not proven either.
You asked me who was played out of position, I gave you a list. You seem to have no subsequent point.
Moyes has a penchant for playing people out of position to accomodate his favourites... Neville was first choice midfield until Hibbert got his lengthy lay off....so you?re wrong there.
We had options for four man midfield last night... and still Cahill was in, so you're worng again.
Kissock was sitting on the bench along with Baxter when Jags was played in midfield this season, so you?re wrong yet again.
Interesting that you again contradict yourself: you state that Lescott is somehow NOT proven in centre half even though he had clean sheets, assists and goals from that position... yet you?ll use exactly the same criteria to try and prove that he is proven in left back! Confusing strategy to take ? or should that be contradictory?
ps: when I used the words ?not a very good left back?, I should have used quotes as I was referring to your suggestion that he is ?very good in that position' ? I don't think he is... I think he?s ?good?.... not very good. Drop the superlative and we may have agreement... I do however think he?s a ?very good? centre half!
He plays players out of position every week. First game of the season he played two centre backs (Jagielka and Rodwell) in the middle of midfield and valente left mid! Also, Arteta is a centre mid, but moyes hasn’t got anyone else to play out wide because he hasn’t bought anyone so Arteta always plays out wide now when I know many fans agree that he is much more effective in the middle. what was it last week Ancihebe right mid??!! Don’t get me wrong he done the job against Stoke, but what if we were playing against a better team we would struggle.
Ciarán McGlone, to be proven in a position to me you’ve got to show consistency. I’ve seen Lescott have some very good games at left back but I’ve also seen him dominated and look shaky.
It’s also about balance, you don’t play someone in a position because he wants to play there. It’s about the team and Lescott’s presence at left back has benefitted Everton football club. That is not in doubt, in my opinion he’s been alot better at left back than he has at centre back.
Neville played centre midfield because we had no other options mate, Fernandes was supposed to be signing but we all know what happened there. Gravesen came in late and got injured and Pienaar was bought to be a wide player.
Moyes didn’t play to play Neville centre mid, with the lack of options he had too. He tried Osman against Larissa and is paid off, Neville reverted to right back for the majority of the season.
Cahill was bought as a centre midfielder and he can still do a job there despite it not being his strongest position. Who else could we have used? Kissock is a left/right winger and Baxter is a striker. Rodwell is a 17 year old still learning his position, all three aren’t ready to be starting in big European games.
Cahill also interchanged between centre midfield and second striker positions, he didn’t play as a centre midfielder for 90 minutes.
All the players playing out of position are playing there because we are light on options. When we have a full starting eleven Moyes tries to play his strongest eleven, he can only work with what he’s got. I don’t see how he’s trying to accomadate any of his favorites either to be honest.
It’s also about balance, you don’t play someone in a position because he wants to play there. It’s about the team and Lescott’s presence at left back has benefitted Everton football club. That is not in doubt, in my opinion he’s been alot better at left back than he has at centre back.
Neville played centre midfield because we had no other options mate, Fernandes was supposed to be signing but we all know what happened there. Gravesen came in late and got injured and Pienaar was bought to be a wide player.
Moyes didn’t play to play Neville centre mid, with the lack of options he had too. He tried Osman against Larissa and is paid off, Neville reverted to right back for the majority of the season.
Cahill was bought as a centre midfielder and he can still do a job there despite it not being his strongest position. Who else could we have used? Kissock is a left/right winger and Baxter is a striker. Rodwell is a 17 year old still learning his position, all three aren’t ready to be starting in big European games.
Cahill also interchanged between centre midfield and second striker positions, he didn’t play as a centre midfielder for 90 minutes.
All the players playing out of position are playing there because we are light on options. When we have a full starting eleven Moyes tries to play his strongest eleven, he can only work with what he’s got. I don’t see how he’s trying to accomadate any of his favorites either to be honest.
Certainly I think Mr Moyes may be reaching for his pen a bit quicker to sign his new contract after that performance.
I dont know who you blame but things arent right, Didnt Lescott have an op at the end of last season, is something wrong ?
I would have a look at Valente or Baines next game and give Lescott a week off in the sun, then come back with his head straight.
I dont know who you blame but things arent right, Didnt Lescott have an op at the end of last season, is something wrong ?
I would have a look at Valente or Baines next game and give Lescott a week off in the sun, then come back with his head straight.
Duncan,
So jags excelled last week whenever he ducked out of the way of the first goal and put the second in?
I certainly haven’t been watching the same jagielka as you mate.
He’s shít...and moyes obsession with playing him is affecting the entire structure of the team.
So jags excelled last week whenever he ducked out of the way of the first goal and put the second in?
I certainly haven’t been watching the same jagielka as you mate.
He’s shít...and moyes obsession with playing him is affecting the entire structure of the team.
Anthony Millington,
We where down to the bare bones when Rodwell and Jagielka played centre midfield. We had no other options at the time, Kenwright and Moyes are to be blame but at the end of the day he can only work with what he?s got.
I?d say Arteta is naturally an attacking central midfielder, more of a number 10 than an out and out centre midfielder. Lots of number 10s play on the wings in England. Hleb, Rosicky, Nasri, Beneyoun, Pienaar etc all spring to mind. It isn?t just Moyes that is doing it, a number of managers including Arsene Wenger feel it gets the best out of a certain type of player.
Arteta was a tidy but effective when he played centre midfield when he first joined us, he was a completely different player when he moved to the wings. He had freedom to do what he wants, he could cut and inside or hit the byline. It also lets him use his best attribute, his trickyness and dribbling abilities which would be stifled int he middle of the park.
Arteta isn?t a winger or a centre midfielder, he?s a mix of the two. He?s not a Fabregas type player in style he never has been.
Moyes is playing him in a position that seems to have got the best out of him, he?s playing him to his strengths and covering up his weaknesses that would be exposed centrally (lack of defensive qualities, he doesn?t hold his position) etc.
If you wanted to get he best out of him you?d play him in an advanced attacking midfield role, that position doesn?t seem to exsist in English football.
Arteta definatly interchanges between left, right and centre though so Moyes uses him in a variety of roles.
We where down to the bare bones when Rodwell and Jagielka played centre midfield. We had no other options at the time, Kenwright and Moyes are to be blame but at the end of the day he can only work with what he?s got.
I?d say Arteta is naturally an attacking central midfielder, more of a number 10 than an out and out centre midfielder. Lots of number 10s play on the wings in England. Hleb, Rosicky, Nasri, Beneyoun, Pienaar etc all spring to mind. It isn?t just Moyes that is doing it, a number of managers including Arsene Wenger feel it gets the best out of a certain type of player.
Arteta was a tidy but effective when he played centre midfield when he first joined us, he was a completely different player when he moved to the wings. He had freedom to do what he wants, he could cut and inside or hit the byline. It also lets him use his best attribute, his trickyness and dribbling abilities which would be stifled int he middle of the park.
Arteta isn?t a winger or a centre midfielder, he?s a mix of the two. He?s not a Fabregas type player in style he never has been.
Moyes is playing him in a position that seems to have got the best out of him, he?s playing him to his strengths and covering up his weaknesses that would be exposed centrally (lack of defensive qualities, he doesn?t hold his position) etc.
If you wanted to get he best out of him you?d play him in an advanced attacking midfield role, that position doesn?t seem to exsist in English football.
Arteta definatly interchanges between left, right and centre though so Moyes uses him in a variety of roles.
Conor,
You contradicted yourself yet again... either you think Lescott is very good at left back or you think he's inconsistent, as youve stated above... you can't have it both ways.
Regarding the Neville in midfield situation, Moyes was quoted a couple of weeks ago as saying that Jacobsen would free up neville ?for the midfield position?...
Says it all really.
You contradicted yourself yet again... either you think Lescott is very good at left back or you think he's inconsistent, as youve stated above... you can't have it both ways.
Regarding the Neville in midfield situation, Moyes was quoted a couple of weeks ago as saying that Jacobsen would free up neville ?for the midfield position?...
Says it all really.
The words, gone, Carsley, limitations, exposed, fuckers and overated all spring to mind
The problem at the moment seems to be that we are often 1 on 1 at the back. A single mistake can cause a goal - there is no cover and therefore no margin for error. I still think that we should consider 5 at the back for some games (esp. if the opposition pay 2 up front). You’d have Yobo/Jags/JL in the centre with 2 picking up front men and 1 spare. Then you’d have Baines & Nev as wing backs - I think both are ideal for this semi-MF, semi-defensive role. Portsmouth did it a few weeks ago to great effect. Not suited to all games I know but I don’t think 4-4-2 is suited to all games either.
Ciarán McGlone,
I said Lescott is an inconsistent centre back. He is a consistent left back, that is his best position in my opinion.
You obviously didn’t watch Moyes’s interview then, he said it will give us the option to free up Neville into midifeld if needed. It’s not the best idea by any means but at the end of the day he’s still an option if we have injury problems.
Why would he bring in two defensive midfielders (Fellaini and Castillo) and play Neville centre midfield, it doesn’t make sense to be honest and that’s that what he’s looking at. He sees Neville as an option in midfield if we are low on option, he doesn’t see him as a first choice.
You use your squad to the max, if you have versatile players and you have injuries your bound to use them.
I said Lescott is an inconsistent centre back. He is a consistent left back, that is his best position in my opinion.
You obviously didn’t watch Moyes’s interview then, he said it will give us the option to free up Neville into midifeld if needed. It’s not the best idea by any means but at the end of the day he’s still an option if we have injury problems.
Why would he bring in two defensive midfielders (Fellaini and Castillo) and play Neville centre midfield, it doesn’t make sense to be honest and that’s that what he’s looking at. He sees Neville as an option in midfield if we are low on option, he doesn’t see him as a first choice.
You use your squad to the max, if you have versatile players and you have injuries your bound to use them.
Conor,
I couldn't agree more on your synopsis of Arteta..
I think this back line conundrum will run and run... and we?ll simply have to do the usual and agree to disagree.
I couldn't agree more on your synopsis of Arteta..
I think this back line conundrum will run and run... and we?ll simply have to do the usual and agree to disagree.
Yeah youre right conor - it doesnt make sense...bu neither do a lot of things that moyes does...
Fair enough Ciaran, agree to disagree.
Has anyone else noticed that Lescott has lost weight this season, could be part of the reason why he seems to be getting knocked off the ball easier this season. Have also heard he?s a bit of a lad about town in his home town in the Midlands and, has recently had run-ins with annoyed husbands & boyfriends... Just maybe his mind's elsewhere - just a thought.
Harsh words for Baines, Connor. Baines is a good left back. Whether or not he feels confident enough in his ability is up for debate. However I do fear for Baines Everton career, I can see parallels between himself and Simon Davies (another admittedly good player), where severe lacks of confidence has led to continual underperformance. The latter obviously had to move to pastures new to reignite his career and he obviously has. Hopefully the former won?t need to go to such measures as he is a very good LB with the rare ability to both defend and attack who could go on to be a real asset for the club.
David McClelland, I don’t think I am being harsh to be honest. I like Baines, in terms of attacking qualities he’s got the lot but he needs work on his defensive skills.
He backs off far too much and more or less inviites wingers to whip in a cross, he leaves alot of space behind him becaise of his willingness to go forward and he’s lightweight in the tackle.
I’ve never been convinced he is a good defender and I don’t think Moyes has. Because of his lack of height teams play the crossfield pass which exposes that. Portsmouth continually knocked it across the park so that Diop/Johnson could beat Baines to the knock downs.
I think in terms of defensive abilities he has alot of deficiencies that need working on. I stand by that. In terms of attacking play I think he’s great and I do agree he has the potential to be a good fullback but he needs to do the basics for me before he even thinks about crossing the half way line. He is a defender after all.
He backs off far too much and more or less inviites wingers to whip in a cross, he leaves alot of space behind him becaise of his willingness to go forward and he’s lightweight in the tackle.
I’ve never been convinced he is a good defender and I don’t think Moyes has. Because of his lack of height teams play the crossfield pass which exposes that. Portsmouth continually knocked it across the park so that Diop/Johnson could beat Baines to the knock downs.
I think in terms of defensive abilities he has alot of deficiencies that need working on. I stand by that. In terms of attacking play I think he’s great and I do agree he has the potential to be a good fullback but he needs to do the basics for me before he even thinks about crossing the half way line. He is a defender after all.
Ciaran McGlone - Jags was definitley our best centre back last year. He wins alot if aerial balls and the clean sheets we had were largely due to his willingness to throw himself at every ball. How was he to blame for the goals against stoke, in the OG he was pushed in the back but the referee let it stand. To say Moyes moved Lescott to left back to accomodate Jags is wrong. Lescott was the only one capable of playing there, we played Yobo in midfield before and he was shite. It then became apparent that Jags was the better centre half.
As for Moyes?s favourites, this is a futile argument. Neville was the best right back we had last season, at least he can cross a ball compared to Hibbo. Cahill is possbly our best player so if there is a half chance he can play a game he should ddefinitely be on the field. Anyway, we did play 4 in midfield after their 1st goal. He was hardly going to put Kissock on either- get real ffs, he hasn?t played a first team game for us yet, so we?ll put him on in an important European game?
I don?t agree with a word of that.
Lescott the only one who can play left back... NO He?s not!
Cahill our best player? Behave yourself.
ps: Jags was not fouled on that goal ? that is a fact!
Lescott the only one who can play left back... NO He?s not!
Cahill our best player? Behave yourself.
ps: Jags was not fouled on that goal ? that is a fact!
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Reckon we?re going out next leg.