Howard is to blame! It’s as if he doesnt know how to command his penalty area.

Damn!

No, its those who score them who are causing the problems, not just Tim Howard. It seems to be lack of concentration

To me Lescott, Jags, Yobo and Howard have all performed well over the past 12 months so it's a mystery to me whats going on at the mo... Let 2 goals a game in and you are not going to win many! not included Neville as I don?t rate him as more than an average full back.

At least you can say one thing for Everton this season, we are certainly entertaining! Some serious work is needed on the defending though.

Has Howard and the rest of the back four joined some order of monks and taken vows of silence?

The answer is Carsley missing.

Lescott, Jags and Yobo, finding it difficult to play with each other due to Lescott's demand to play at centre back, it is causing uncertainty between them almost divided loyalty.

Moyes for me was to blame today, there was no reason to play that formation, we should have started with a 4-4-2 and went for it instead of a defensive 4-5-1 that posed them no threat at all.

I don’t know whether we are missing Cars enough to explain our defence falling apart so many times already.

I go along with Paul Niklas to some extent. DM’s way is to start cautious and open up as the game goes on. Now if that invites goal chances, and this season so far they have become goals, then we have to give them more problems than they give us.

Visiting the promoted teams early in the season isn’t easy. We seem to have made things hard for ourself, and we have to produce clean sheets, especially at home. I think we have the players to do it, but something has to be put right in the heart of the team.

It’s got nothing to do with Carsley to be honest, despite him doing a good job over the years he can’t stop the likes of Jags, Howard, Lescott, Neville and Yobo from making individual mistakes. No one can, that’s down to them.

I comes down to the lack of organisation at the club from top to bottom. Castillo and Fellaini are good players but they’ve been thrown into the deep end when realistically they should have been bought in pre-season so that they could fit into the sytstem and learn what there roles actually are.

The system as a whole needs sorting out quickly, all this should have been done in Pre-season in all honesty.

Am not too sure what the problem is as well but I’m starting to think that Carsley contributed a lot more than his never-say-die attitude, crunching tackles and timely interceptions. He probably helped a lot in the organisation of the defence as well. Yobo, Jagielka and Lescott do not come across as the most vocal of players. With our new defensive midfielders (Castillo and Fellaini) still unable to speak a word of english, I think this has affected our ability to defend. Hopefully this gets sorted out soon. Leaking 2 goals every game is really going to make winning games a very difficult proposition.

We have 7 from 9 points away from home against newly promoted sides, that isnt bad! If we had of got 4 points from 6 from our home games (which should have been achieveable) then we would be laughing right now! If we can get our home form back and get our defence back on form then we will be ok! Im just hoping for a good result against the shite, a draw at the very least!

The comments above about Carsley's organisational skills are spot on, Fellaini and Castillo have some big boots to fill on that one, they will need time. The good news is that its early days as yet and I can?t remember us scoring this freely for a long time,if we do get the defence sorted then we are looking good, and hey 9th isn?t that bad for such a shit start to the season. We are well over due a couple of clean sheets and there would be no beter time to start than against the RS or Liege.

It’s all about balance for me, once Castillo and Fellaini settle in they’ll be able to replace Carsley. It takes time though, nothing is a quick fix. Carsley took a few years to establish himself in the side and make his presence known.

Fellaini and Castillo are good players, I’ve seen enough even now to see that could offer us something this season. It’ll take time though, we’ve had a shit summer and we’ll take longer than other teams to get the right balance and combination throughout the team.

Our attacking game in the second half was excellent, every player was getting involved and moving the ball about. Arteta especially in a more central role started to make us play. Fellaini and Cahill also got involved alot more in the last 35 minutes.

Saha did very well, if we can keep him fit he’ll be a excellent signing for us. He’s as good as Yakubu, having two strikers of that quality will only push us on.

We have the quality, we have the battling qualities as we showed today but the defence and goalkeeper need to sort themselves out. If they can sort themselves out we’ll have a good season.

Does anybody think it could be anything to do with Steve Round?

New coach, different ideas... confused defenders?

Is it any coincidence that our defence looks as poor (if not worse) as Newcastles?

Although not all his fault, I think Howard has to hold his hand up as at least two would not have happened if he controlled his area. His dealing with crosses is suspect... maybe it's a confidence thing but his lack of conviction is affecting the defence.

We need Hibbo fit, to tie things up at the back. You heard.

Spot on Gary. Thought the same myself. Round = Newcastle = rubbish defence. Maybe he should leave and ask Irvine to come back!!!!

On another matter how did the Standard supporters get away with throwing bottles on to the pitch because they didn?t get a penalty. Imagine the papers if we had done that. Maybe they will get thrown out of the cup. Sorry we are not of the Famous 4 - so won?t happen.

The worrying thing is despite Howard clearly having his poorest run of form since joining us. We cannot really rest him and bring in anyone who is better. All we have is a third-choice Wigan goalkeeper who, no disrespect to Nash but if your that good then you wouldnt be third choice at Wigan... We have two rookies who are clearly thought not to be ready and from the times I have seen Turner play, not only for Everton, he looks very very shaky in decision making. I confess to not having seen enough of Ruddy but then we must trust Moyes who sees then everyday in training.

I just hope that all it is is a slump I form that is only temporary for Tim Howard but he certainly is struggling and his loss in form is affecting the men in front of him hence the amount of disarray.

We have a massive month in our season coming up now where we could well shape our season and we have to make sure that we come out of October still in at least one of the cups, going out of both would bring about even more of an air of depression because I think we have to face reality we are not going to qualify for Europe through the league positions this season. That's not being a pessimist its just being a realist.

@Gary Brown, I don't think Steve Round is the issue, as we haven't kept a clean sheet since Derby at home last year (April 6th i think it was, dull game and Derby missed a couple of sitters). Without Weir or Stubbs we do look more suspect at the back, how many times last season did Jags, Yobo and Lescott fuck up but got away with as we either won or they atoned for the errors?

With all due respect, yes, Weir and Stubbs did well but they were also on the end of some right drubbings. Every time we played against pace we got demolished like the time we got done 5-1 at City, 7-0 at Arsenal ? just a few examples.

The big problem with Everton as well is we don't see enough of the ball. Too often the defence just launches hopeful long balls down field into no man's land and it just keeps coming back to us and that again is one of the reasons why we did so poorly against the top four last season.

I still think there is a massive room for improvement in the way we play football. Yes, we do play some decent stuff but its seldom seen on a regular basis. We also break far too slowly when we are in a good position on the counter-attack everything just seems to grind to a halt when we cross the halfway line.

It would have been interesting if we had got the lad Obinna from Inter Milan. Apparently he is a pacy winger... We still don't have any natural wide players and for me it shows badly at times and Arteta is truly being wasted playing out wide. I can't help but feel playing him out wide just really restricts and minimalises his ability to get invololved in the game. I think we should definetly be looking for a couple of wide boys next transfer window.

Maybe Moyes should consider bringing back Stubbs as a defensive coach, cause I saw today's game on the internet and cannot beleive we only got a draw, we should have deffo won today but the obvious mistakes let us down again. But a positive is the spirit we have to fight back from going 2-0 down. Gary I think you have a good point about Steve Round, I?ve been thinking the same. If you look where he?s been ? Newcastle, England ? defensively they haven't been that solid.

Our defence is a real cause for concern. Both individual and collective errors are costing us dear at the moment. Our attacking players are performing well but their endeavours are being undermined by continual defensive frailties. Hull will not get an easier goal this season than the second we conceded today- A real lack of communication. Our defence seems easily rattled- direct play, set pieces or generally any sustained period of time within which the opposition have the ball, leads to our defenders to panic and retreat to the footballing equivalent of the foetal position: HOOFING.

I don?t think one stand-alone reason can be identified, but I?m hoping it will eventually correct itself sooner rather than latter- or we could find ourselves out of two cups and languishing in the Premier League.

Anyway on another note, I would like to say Saha played very well today and without him we would not have gained a point. He dropped deep, hung onto the last man, held the ball up and linked well with his teammates. If we can keep him and Yakubu fit we will have real potency (of top four proportions!) in our attacking department this season.

Also, I have to also admit Castillo played very well for the 45 minutes he was on for, somewhat proving me wrong (this is a reconstructed apology). He offered far more protection to the back four and his distribution was generally excellent. He also seems to be developing a good understanding with Neville to his right. In time he and Fellaini will develop into a really combative centre midfield pairing.

I was suprised Castillo went off to be honest, I thought he was doing quite well. He was getting stuck in, holding his position and distributing the ball well.

Maybe Moyes wanted to get forward more, I suppose a midfeld of Cahill, Fellaini, Arteta and Osman is alot more attacking than defensive.

I’m happy with Castillo though, one he beds in properly he’ll be a good signing for us. He’s better on the ball than I thought he’d be, he keeps us ticking in the middle.

Definitely Connor, I was really pleasantly surprised by his performance. I guess it is just a matter of settling into his role. He always seems to offer an option to the defence and he does manage to keep things ticking in midfield with his simple one touch passes. I guess he had to be sacrificed considering the circumstances ? chasing the game ? but his performance didn?t merit it ? a purely tactical switch if anything. But what really impressed me was his willingness to adapt and listen. Obviously he listened to Moyes?s instructions and made a real effort to improve his defensive duties and sharpen his distribution ? long may it continue!

That?s what I said against Stoke, David, he always gives an option to the back four which cuts out alot of hoofs. He?s certainly improved Neville?s distribution over the past three games. He?s given him the simple option.

He definitely looks promising both physically and technically. He looks comfortble on the ball and he isn?t bullied. Obviously it?s about growing into the role and improving even more now.

On Fellaini, he also looks a good footballer. Comfortable in possession and a tidy passer. He?s also good at winning flick ons around the area. One thing I would say is he needs to put himself about a bit more, gets stuck in more and use his physical presence.

I?m confident he?ll get better though, he?s only 20 years old after all. He?s only been playing proffessional football for two years, this is his third season. He?s got alot of developing to do and he?ll get better once he settles and adapts.

I was also impressed with Saha, he?ll be a real asset if we can keep him fit. He?s cultured but he?s also got that burst of pace that we lack in the final third. Hopefully we can see more of him, on his day he?s as good as any striker in the League.

I do think Moyes has bought well, it?s just about fitting them in and getting them used to the system. With all the farce in the summer things are going to take a little longer to settle down. Once we do I expect us to kick on.

Unable to see, or hear, what was going on at Hull, what I could pick up wasn't so surprising (own goal included) - but Louis Saha being on the bench, and then being given a second half did seem a bit odd.

Can anyone who knows more than me shed any light on this?

Kieth, Saha was on the bench because Moyes thought he could contribute (obviously). He came on for the second half because Moyes thought he make a difference (obviously).

The lad looked fit, he looked bright, he got involved more and more as the game went on. His skill and desire provided to be a significant difference, and the part he played with the Yak in the build-up to the second Everton goal was of the very highest order; a quite superb move an excellent goal.

So not really that much of a surprise. He was injured/unfit when bought in; three weeks later... Bingo! The boy done good!!!

Connor, youy say "Fellaini looks a good footballer"... Not being funny mate, bit I haven?t seen anything to make me think he is of the quality of the fee paid, £15m. I know it?s early days, and he?s only 20, but when you pay mega bucks for a player, you expect to look at him, and think, yeah this lad has got that little something extra about him, that makes him stand out from other players, and as I said, I just can?t see it. I hope he proves me wrong, when he settles down a bit more, but I just have this funny feeling, that we may have paid way over the odds because it was a last minute bid.

Yes, Our disastrous summer preparations, has badly affected the team. It?s a real shame the new players did not have a proper pre-season within which to be bedded into the team, we certainly wouldn?t be faced with the problems we currently are. Moyes has bought well. Our team on balance is stronger than last year?s (we seriously lack depth but our first eleven has been improved)

Fellaini has got innate footballing ability. That much was clear from his two performances against Liverpool. I have no doubt he will become a very good footballer-given time. I hope the fans do show some patience (given the price tag) because, as you say, he is only 20 and will take time to develop his game.

I Just hope we can stear clear of injuries this season. I think that will dictate its outcome. On our day, with a fully fit squad we are as good as anyone outside the ?big? four and should look to finish comfortably between (5th and 7th). I just feel that if we are unlucky with injuries (especially given with our lack of depth) we may struggle a little. Look how much we?ve missed the influence of Pienaar. But I guess you could say that of any team- Man U and Ronaldo, Arsenal and Fabregas....

Along with the introduction of Saha, I felt Arteta shifting to the centre also contributed to our salvaging of the Hull game. Far more involved his influence on the game was telling as his sheer quality was demonstrated (a 20 yard through ball to Saha sticks in the mind). Out wide he at times becomes a peripheral figure (Especially away games) but centrally he?s far more involved. Whether or not he should/can stay there remains to be seen. He may not be able to cope with pace and tenacity that central areas in premier league games bring but could be useful in the last 30 to 20 minutes of PL/European games when the opposition is on the backfoot and we?re searching for a goal.

Tony Johnson, I agree fully; we do play some good football but there is room for improvement. Ball retention need to improve, especially defensively. Against lesser teams we tend to get away with it because our better quality (or their lack of). However against good opposition (particularly the top four), possession becomes nine-tenths of the law and we more often than not get punished.

Our attacks, at times, lack urgency. We can have a lot of the ball without doing anything with it. Yes sometimes you have exhibit patience when facing a resolute defence but a darting run, a drop of the shoulder or the spinning of a marker can often unlock such defences. For example today, our second was brought about by a quick interchange between Saha and Yakubu. But generally we do lack the pace of a wide man to counter-attack effectively (like Aston Villa who have the outlet of Agbonlahor). I think Moyes had tried to address this problem with the signing Obinna Nsofor (Failed due to work permit) and may yet do in the January window (There?s a quote somewhere).

Brian Waring, when I say "good footballer" I mean technically good, good in possession and tidy in his passing. He showed that today, he wasn’t anything special but he was composed and he looked comfortable.

On his price tag, I don’t think he is worth 15 million and I never have done. Because of the situation we where in we had to take a chance, he’s a player with alot of progression and at 20 he’s got alot of time to develop. He’s also a player who brings t the team characteristics we needed (height, physical presence) etc.

What he’s shown me is he can compete, he can hold his own and do a job. How many 20 year olds are regulars in first teams? Not many to be honest.

I’d also like to see him at home where he’ll be alot more comfortable and the onus will be on us to make things happen. We also usually see more of the ball at Goodison.

He’s played in away games, not always the the right games to throw new young players into. Pienaar started away from home and looked average, he got a few home games under his belt, grew in confidence and got better and better.

As I said Fellaini has only been playing for two full seasons, he’s in his third season this year. He probably hasn’t stopped growing physically or technically. He’ll definatly fill out and learn to use his frame more. Boss games so to speak.

I think there’s definatly more to come from Fellaini, both now and in the future. There’s going to have to be patience though, it’s not his fault Moyes paid over the odds for him.

I for one was choking on my tea when we signed Carlo Nash... But after seeing Howard's pathetic performances this season, I think he might be a wee deadline day gem. Howard I think has been at fault for the last 4 goals with poor attempts of a clearance or not at all. The back four has got a lot of flak recently but surely part of the blame for the skip of goals we are letting in is Howard's lack of or no presence in the box. It would take a lot of pressure off the the boys if he just could catch the bloody ball... he?s 6 foot what!? For god's sake, he should clean everyone out of it instead this constant flapping he does... Frustrating!!!

Carsley: "we miss him"?!? ? what a load of rubbish. He is now playing at the level where he belongs. You might notice how quiet he kept the mighty Blackpool yesterday.

We have improved the squad with the new signings and it will take a little time, just be thankful we don?t support the bottom two giants of English football.
COYB.....

?Adds characteristics we needed (height, physical presence) etc.? - did you see the first goal today? Claus Thomsen added those characteristics as well! I have seen enough and he?s no £15M player, we should be adding skill and class for that sort of cash... he seems useful and will in time get better but it's £15M that should have been a lot better spent ? and in June!

Martin Beesley,

Anyone can be beaten in an aerial dual. Fellaini was competing against someone exactly the same size as him, naturally he?s not going to dominate in the air.

It?s like people moaning at Dunc for not beating Sami Hyppia in the air, in reality it?s not that easy.

Fellaini won a lot of headers today, he knocked down a lot of headers around the box which will be a useful asset for us.

What is a £15M player nowadays? There?s no such thing. Some £15M players turn out great, some turn out average.

We paid over the odds for Fellaini, we had to. He?s been bought for now and the future, there?s still alot of developing and once he?s finished hopefully he will be a £15M player.

I do think a lot of people are being very harsh, he?s the same age as Victor Anichebe at the end of the day. He?s still a young kid and he?s only two games into his Everton career.

When is Pienaar fit? We can use him on the left to help Arteta with the creativity. Yak is doing a superb job on the left but the longer he plays there the sooner Moyes will convert him to a winger and BK will sell Peanuts. Saha had a good game to be honest. This Everton is more attack-oriented than last season and it’s goals galore (both ends of the pitch though) when we play. Strange, where’s the boring 1-0s?

That?s two games we could have won but for own goals!! Let?s hope we don?t gift the Shite next weekend!!

I will say something and that is that a few seasons ago, being a 2 - nil situation the lads? heads would have gone down but now they fight back which is very pleasing.

Dan McKie wrote "We have 7 from 9 points away from home against newly promoted sides, that isnt bad!"

That?s not bad, it?s shocking!! Two of the three promoted sides will very likely be relegated. We have played five league games so far against average to poor teams and conceded 11 goals. Regardless of some of the ?don?t panic? posters over the summer we were just not prepared for the new season. The lack of new signings before the start of the season gave no chance to experiment and work in new players during the pre-season and our current position is the result of this.

If the last few games were just a blip that would be fine but we ended last season poorly as well. Someone at the club has to get a grip,shake it up and stop making excuses for everything that goes wrong.Let?s have less of the ?what if this had happened? and more of the ?when we win a trophy? mentality.

I’d like to see Alan Stubbs brought in as a defensive coach to help Lescott and the others.

Despite the poor finish to the end of last season and the shakey start to this season, we?ve still accumalated the 5th highest amount of points in 2008. Not a bad statistic seen as we haven?t hit our stride yet.

The problem is the back four are now unsettled every time they play, its the old situation of worryign about shipping goals and you go and score one in your own net. As soon as the first clean sheet comes we will move on.
Iits like a striker with the Hoodoo of not scoring. A La Robbie Keane.

Connor Rohrer - Fair enough comments, he needs time I agree. I just have instant gut feeling on players and it's just how I feel watching him so far. Yes he?s same age as Vic, although would you pay £15m for him? No chance... and again look at Fabregas at the same age and now a year older ? not in that league is he?

Brian Waring wrote "Connor, you say "Fellaini looks a good footballer"... Not being funny mate, bit I haven?t seen anything to make me think he is of the quality of the fee paid, £15m".

Agree with Brian on this. When Arsene Wenger has brought in young players with potential (and often at bargain prices) you can usually see the class straight away and it?s then a case of the new player getting used to a new club, to the playing system and to gaining an understanding and a bond with the existing players. But we need class players to come in and raise the level of the less talented players as, unlike Arsenal, our playing style is none too creative!!! I really hope that Fellaini is the player to take us to the next level.....

Fellaini certainly isn't the player to take us to the new level... he?s not bad, but he?s not god either... and Moyes playing him as some sort of attacking midfielder - when he's clearly not - doesn't help either.

Fabregas is different class to most players never mind Fellaini, he’s different class to Artet a and alot of other midfielders. He’s a gem, an immense talent.

Pluse Fellaini is nothing like Fabregas in terms of style, Fabregas is a playmaker, a player who easy on the eye.

Fellaini looks to me look he has the raw attributes to be a top top player in this League, a monster one he learns the English game and adapts the the pace.

He’s not going to run a game on the deck, that’s not what he was bought for. He was bought to bring height, physical presence, stability to our midfield.

He’s a perfectly capable footballer, tidy in possession and has a good touch for such a tall man. He also wants it which will only help our football, both him and Castillo want the ball and both use the ball well.

I’ve said I feel he needs to impose himself a bit more, I think he shows glympses of dominant play but then he drifts out and at times the pace of the game gets the better of him. This is something he’s going to have to adapt to, I’m confident he will.

Potentially we have a very good player on our books, it’s just about nurturing him into the player he is capable of being. He’s coming from a mickey mouse League into the big bad Premier League, it’s going to take time.

On his first two games I think he’s done fine. He’s competed and he’s looked comfortable against teams who play physical football and are battling for the lives. A few home games will be good for him, he can build his confidence and he’ll improve.