The Mail Bag
Everton exclusive?
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I read that the Arabs who will, tomorrow, hand over £200M for Man City are already talking to the local council about a further £450M deal to buy out the City of Manchester Stadium and the land surrounding it.
Now, with Bill Kenwright taking all those phone calls from would-be suitors day and night, I can`t believe that any self-respecting Sheik wouldn`t have had a word in our owner`s shell-like before forking out £650M for the Manchester Also-Rans. After all, wouldn`t you rather be going head to head with the bankrupts who run our neighbours than having to challenge the might of Man Utd? God, for that sort of money they could have made Bill a rich man, paid off all our debts and built us our own Field of Dreams anywhere in Liverpool!
Strange... very strange. They either had never heard of Everton (which I somehow doubt), got the bums rush from Bill, or ?more likely ? found that that bloody exclusivity agreement prevented him doing any kind deal until the outcome of the Inquiry was known.
Talk about an albatros?That Ancient bloody Mariner had nothing on Our Bill, did he?
Brian Noble, Posted 22/09/2008 at 13:17:50
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Carl - what exactly are you basing your £250-300m on? Or are you just telling lies lies lies to portray Kenwright in as negative light as possible? That?s utter rubbish that I suspect you have just made up.
Shouldn?t that be a word in his Sheik-like???
We should approach that well known Evertonian billionaire Owen Goal, he?s been spotted at the last 3 match?s home and away...
We should approach that well known Evertonian billionaire Owen Goal, he?s been spotted at the last 3 match?s home and away...
Or that half-Korean, half-French billionaire :
Lee Kee De Fence.......
Lee Kee De Fence.......
How about half Dutch, half moon creature... Dropa De Klanger
Get a life man. How many times do we have to point out where we were, and what we have done since BK took over. You probably don?t remember Johnson!
Do I need to list what BK has done for EFC, Kirkby only exception.
A skint blue in charge and EFC in the 2nd as I have said before is preferable to Saudi FC or FC India.
EFC is not a toy and if that means we don?t win anything during this silly period which may last 10 or 20 years, but which at the end we still have a proper club, then that will do me.
Remember you can?t buy class, look at Chelsea.
Do I need to list what BK has done for EFC, Kirkby only exception.
A skint blue in charge and EFC in the 2nd as I have said before is preferable to Saudi FC or FC India.
EFC is not a toy and if that means we don?t win anything during this silly period which may last 10 or 20 years, but which at the end we still have a proper club, then that will do me.
Remember you can?t buy class, look at Chelsea.
Micheal, How long are we expected to be grateful, for Bill fulfilling HIS dream of owning the club? I was happy for him when he took over and indeed if it was not for his lies and the "watch this space" antics, I would still have sympathy. But face facts, when he sells he will not do a Jack Hayward and give the club away, he will walk away with a healthy profit. I don't object to that but with all this money flying around it would be nice to think we are at least in with a chance instead of being tied to Tesco.
£250-300m?
I believe there are only 35,000 shares in the club. That value would make them worth over £7k each...... you can buy them for less than a quarter of that, and I assume that value wouldn’t include other shareholder’s holdings.
If that’s the price he’s quoting then he doesn’t really want to sell, or he really doesn’t own the shares or both.
I believe there are only 35,000 shares in the club. That value would make them worth over £7k each...... you can buy them for less than a quarter of that, and I assume that value wouldn’t include other shareholder’s holdings.
If that’s the price he’s quoting then he doesn’t really want to sell, or he really doesn’t own the shares or both.
I?m not a multi-billionaire myself and I?m not too sure how they operate and what they think.
If we go back to the top of the thread, we may note that Middle Eastlands is likely to become a reality with Arab money going to Manchester City Council to buy a sizeable chunk of that city and its ready-made 21st-Century stadium. Perhaps that?s got more to do with where they have chosen to spend their petty cash than what might be called footballing reasons.
They believe that they can buy the ECL title anyway.
If we go back to the top of the thread, we may note that Middle Eastlands is likely to become a reality with Arab money going to Manchester City Council to buy a sizeable chunk of that city and its ready-made 21st-Century stadium. Perhaps that?s got more to do with where they have chosen to spend their petty cash than what might be called footballing reasons.
They believe that they can buy the ECL title anyway.
Carl Wright, ?I heard he?s asking £250-£300m?. Off who exactly?
Or mores to the point, unless you have direct access at board level, or are privy to BK?s personal financial advisor, just exactly where do you get your information?
Tom Hughes, your contributions are normally well researched and written, I?m suprised at you jumping on the bandwagon, despite your DK feelings.
Or mores to the point, unless you have direct access at board level, or are privy to BK?s personal financial advisor, just exactly where do you get your information?
Tom Hughes, your contributions are normally well researched and written, I?m suprised at you jumping on the bandwagon, despite your DK feelings.
Tom, if there is any reality in the figures quoted I would imagine it would include the Clubs current debts and assets (the playing staff).
On that basis, £250 Mil doesn't seem over the top to me.
On that basis, £250 Mil doesn't seem over the top to me.
I suspect they didn't want Everton because they wouldn't risk their money if Kirkby doesn't get approved and they will be stuck with a run-down Goodison.
On the other hand, they may have been put off by the club's own protesting supporters holding the club back.
On the other hand, they may have been put off by the club's own protesting supporters holding the club back.
Ian Edwards, That's a load of rubbish, how are the fans holding the club back? Without the fans they?d be in a worse situation, no income, no wages, no players, NO CLUB!!! BK would be ruined without us lot even if we do moan a lot. At the end of the day, if BK was REALLY looking for investment, why hasn't anyone, just one looked at us?
I suspect that Bill and his Board have given undertakings not to sell shares before the fate of DK is determined. This would explain the wording in the Tesco statement ie. ?the directors have no intention of reliquishing their holdings? etc.. Basically, it looks that they are hostages to Tesco until and unless DK gets refused. Talk about shooting yourself in both feet!
I will give you the answer. Kenwright will never sell Everton until they move to a new ground to make himself more money. Or will completley overprice the club now to make what he must have in-mind what he wants back...
Let's get one thing straight. BK does not get tagged Billy Bullshit for NO reason. Oh by the way, I was told by a reliable source that the new guy we bought from Liege was nowhere near £15m. This was a agreement both clubs to keep us sweet & to keep the Liege fans off their club's back. He got sold for just under £9m and had a very little down payment.
Craig
The only investment we will get is if we move ground as a new owner wont want to pay out for a new one and also if there is the possibility of no site for one.
The only ground on the horizon is Kirkby and a vocal minority of Everton fans are protesting about it and causing an embarrassment to the club. There fore Everton fans are holding the club back. FACT
The only investment we will get is if we move ground as a new owner wont want to pay out for a new one and also if there is the possibility of no site for one.
The only ground on the horizon is Kirkby and a vocal minority of Everton fans are protesting about it and causing an embarrassment to the club. There fore Everton fans are holding the club back. FACT
Lyn Rawlings - I think you are pretty close to the truth of it.
I just hope we get a decision quickly as I?m worried about what options & investment we may be missing out on.
I just hope we get a decision quickly as I?m worried about what options & investment we may be missing out on.
Ian Edwards, the reason Kirkby got called in wasn?t down to the ?minority? of fans, but down to what Tesco and the club presented to Blears. Therefore Everton fans are not holding the club back. FACT!!!!!
It?s fans like you who are an embarrassment, settling for a mid-range shed in the middle of nowhere.
It?s fans like you who are an embarrassment, settling for a mid-range shed in the middle of nowhere.
Ian Edwards
Vocal minority? You really are having a laugh
Now that just about every DK boast has been exposed as hogwash, I think you?ll find you're in an ever shrinking minority.
Where are these yes voters? How come you never see or meet them?
After the panic stricken antics of the Board to try and silence the very definite majority after the recent EGM, I am becoming increasingly sceptical about the first vote. I know there were lots of lies told in the glossy brochure, but I still can't believe 15,000 people fell for them; if so how did 15,000 people disappear into thin air?
Was it one shareholder, one vote?
Vocal minority? You really are having a laugh
Now that just about every DK boast has been exposed as hogwash, I think you?ll find you're in an ever shrinking minority.
Where are these yes voters? How come you never see or meet them?
After the panic stricken antics of the Board to try and silence the very definite majority after the recent EGM, I am becoming increasingly sceptical about the first vote. I know there were lots of lies told in the glossy brochure, but I still can't believe 15,000 people fell for them; if so how did 15,000 people disappear into thin air?
Was it one shareholder, one vote?
Can someone please explain to me what the difference is between looking for investment 24/7 and putting your club up for sale? Bill Kenwright has claimed to be looking for investors 24/7 since he took over. Newcastle put their club up for sale 2 weeks ago and have Indian / Chineese and now Nigerian businessmen falling over themselves to buy it.
Why like Newcastle can we not come out and say we are actually up for sale? Is it because Bill still wants to be chairman even after he has sold the club?
I don?t know if that would be a good or bad thing and I am not a Kenwright out person as I was glad when he took over from Johnson and I do think he has done a good job with the help of a very good relationship with a good manager. However we must progress and personally I don?t think we can with Bill as a chairman.
Why like Newcastle can we not come out and say we are actually up for sale? Is it because Bill still wants to be chairman even after he has sold the club?
I don?t know if that would be a good or bad thing and I am not a Kenwright out person as I was glad when he took over from Johnson and I do think he has done a good job with the help of a very good relationship with a good manager. However we must progress and personally I don?t think we can with Bill as a chairman.
Christ how deluded are some of you lot?
Why haven?t we attracted a billionaire - because Kenwright has somehow fought them all off? How pitiful do you sound.
IF a BILLIONAIRE came along who really wanted to buy EFC do you not think he would?ve done? People don't tend to have billions just drop in their laps you know.... they tend to go out and earn them and have to be a bit more astute and tenacious than most to do it.
Yet this billionaire would be put off by a nice-but-a-bit-dim Kenwright who?s luvvied his way to a modest, in that company, little theatre empire?
Reality time lads we are NOT a good prospect for a buyout. We need money putting in for a stadium, we do not sell much merchandise - which is nothing to do with outsourcing - and all to do with the fact that the fans don't buy the gear. If we were all clamouring to buy the stuff there would be no need for the outsourcing in the first place!.
So with limited revenue coming in to the club and an image that is one of quiet competence with limited resources as opposed to anything really marketable ? bit hard to say ?Everton FC they are really old and do really well with stuff all money? and make it exciting ? where is a billionaire going to recoup his investment?.
When you can answer this one realistically ? tell Kenwright I?m sure it?ll help him!.
Why haven?t we attracted a billionaire - because Kenwright has somehow fought them all off? How pitiful do you sound.
IF a BILLIONAIRE came along who really wanted to buy EFC do you not think he would?ve done? People don't tend to have billions just drop in their laps you know.... they tend to go out and earn them and have to be a bit more astute and tenacious than most to do it.
Yet this billionaire would be put off by a nice-but-a-bit-dim Kenwright who?s luvvied his way to a modest, in that company, little theatre empire?
Reality time lads we are NOT a good prospect for a buyout. We need money putting in for a stadium, we do not sell much merchandise - which is nothing to do with outsourcing - and all to do with the fact that the fans don't buy the gear. If we were all clamouring to buy the stuff there would be no need for the outsourcing in the first place!.
So with limited revenue coming in to the club and an image that is one of quiet competence with limited resources as opposed to anything really marketable ? bit hard to say ?Everton FC they are really old and do really well with stuff all money? and make it exciting ? where is a billionaire going to recoup his investment?.
When you can answer this one realistically ? tell Kenwright I?m sure it?ll help him!.
Why hasn?t someone come along and invested?
It's not because of the club being a poor prospect, or lack of a stadium, next to the RS, etc etc.. it's the deal.
Like selling your house, the market finds a price and someone will pay it. But like most homeowners we want to get top dollar. We hold out for the best deal for ourselves personally.
The fact that no one has bought in, is probably more an indication of what is being asked for by the club. If it's a good deal for both then you have a sale; if not, you wait for a buyer or drop your price.
With a decision on Kirkby hanging, no one will be interested until its sorted on way or the other. Logically the main shareholders believe they will get more for their shares if Kirkby is approved so they are hanging out for the best deal they can get. Conversely, should Kirkby not go through they will settle for offers and I would expect there would be a few around but not at the price the shareholders may like.
What's best for the club? Frankly we need a change of ownership as BK himself has stated. The confidence of many has been lost in the club's management and we need fresh blood to take us to the next level.
Sometimes as Evertonians we are guilty of taking down our value as a club, our worth as a potential force in the EPL and yes even Europe. I hear the proverbial "we are skint, we have to go to Kirkby" brigade as if it is salvation.
It may be the only plan on the table, but it's not our table, it's Tesco?s. When a buyer does come in I hope the options are far more encompassing than the Deal of the Century.
It's not because of the club being a poor prospect, or lack of a stadium, next to the RS, etc etc.. it's the deal.
Like selling your house, the market finds a price and someone will pay it. But like most homeowners we want to get top dollar. We hold out for the best deal for ourselves personally.
The fact that no one has bought in, is probably more an indication of what is being asked for by the club. If it's a good deal for both then you have a sale; if not, you wait for a buyer or drop your price.
With a decision on Kirkby hanging, no one will be interested until its sorted on way or the other. Logically the main shareholders believe they will get more for their shares if Kirkby is approved so they are hanging out for the best deal they can get. Conversely, should Kirkby not go through they will settle for offers and I would expect there would be a few around but not at the price the shareholders may like.
What's best for the club? Frankly we need a change of ownership as BK himself has stated. The confidence of many has been lost in the club's management and we need fresh blood to take us to the next level.
Sometimes as Evertonians we are guilty of taking down our value as a club, our worth as a potential force in the EPL and yes even Europe. I hear the proverbial "we are skint, we have to go to Kirkby" brigade as if it is salvation.
It may be the only plan on the table, but it's not our table, it's Tesco?s. When a buyer does come in I hope the options are far more encompassing than the Deal of the Century.
Since you all seem to agree about it, can one of you explain to me why a buyer will pay more for Bill’s shares if Kirkby is approved and is going to go ahead? Thanks.
Terry Smith
that’s a very interesting point as I actually read at the time the Belgian newspapers were reporting that Liege were asking 15 million Euro’s not pounds and as we all know noone gets their asking price.
As regards the sale of EFC we can all speculate but that Amanda Stavely or whatever her name is from PCP knows how to put a willing seller and willing buyer together and that is IMO the only way we’ll get a top investor not using the Liverpool Echo to announve it.
The only place Bill has been looking 24’7 is in his own closet.
that’s a very interesting point as I actually read at the time the Belgian newspapers were reporting that Liege were asking 15 million Euro’s not pounds and as we all know noone gets their asking price.
As regards the sale of EFC we can all speculate but that Amanda Stavely or whatever her name is from PCP knows how to put a willing seller and willing buyer together and that is IMO the only way we’ll get a top investor not using the Liverpool Echo to announve it.
The only place Bill has been looking 24’7 is in his own closet.
Neil
dear boy the answer is simple.
The old boys network will value the stadium at 150 million,get what they can out of the Retail enabling 50 million and leave EFC with a debt of around 100 million.
Thereby theoretically improving the asset value of the club and leaving EFC with a championship standard stadium half full of supporters and a huge debt as legacy.
You may be surprised to hear me say I dont lay all of the blame for that on Bullshit Billy’s door although he has allowed Tesco Terry and Phil Green/Robert Earl to do all the running while he is on the phone from London 24/7 to David
dear boy the answer is simple.
The old boys network will value the stadium at 150 million,get what they can out of the Retail enabling 50 million and leave EFC with a debt of around 100 million.
Thereby theoretically improving the asset value of the club and leaving EFC with a championship standard stadium half full of supporters and a huge debt as legacy.
You may be surprised to hear me say I dont lay all of the blame for that on Bullshit Billy’s door although he has allowed Tesco Terry and Phil Green/Robert Earl to do all the running while he is on the phone from London 24/7 to David
Neil
I dont believe for one minute a buyer would pay more for the club if Kirkby gets the nod, the problem is BK does, what if he’s wrong ? and lets face it, most of us think he is, do you and him shrug your shoulders and say "oops" ?
You’re stubbornly refusing to accept, despite all evidence to the contrary, DK would be the death of this club
I hope you - and BK - never get your wish
Most yes voters have long since realised the danger and no longer want to take what would be a fatal step.
They now see how rediculous notion, that some imaginary "new fans" will turn up in their thousands to keep us afloat - let alone prosper - really is
I dont believe for one minute a buyer would pay more for the club if Kirkby gets the nod, the problem is BK does, what if he’s wrong ? and lets face it, most of us think he is, do you and him shrug your shoulders and say "oops" ?
You’re stubbornly refusing to accept, despite all evidence to the contrary, DK would be the death of this club
I hope you - and BK - never get your wish
Most yes voters have long since realised the danger and no longer want to take what would be a fatal step.
They now see how rediculous notion, that some imaginary "new fans" will turn up in their thousands to keep us afloat - let alone prosper - really is
Tom raises a very puzzling point about the share price. It has remained essentially the same for private buyers since Bill took over, as far as I can tell. At £1,400 it was way overpriced then, compared with the £857 Bill?s TBH paid for each of Agent Johnson?s shares, for a total club valuation of around £20M.
I believe the shares are still valued at that same amount despite the Deloite/Forbes(?) valuations of the club topping £100M last year... and possibly still rising. Yet I beliebe the Blankstone Sington Ltd price is still around £1,400. Can anyone explain that???
I believe the shares are still valued at that same amount despite the Deloite/Forbes(?) valuations of the club topping £100M last year... and possibly still rising. Yet I beliebe the Blankstone Sington Ltd price is still around £1,400. Can anyone explain that???
Jay, dear boy - this is getting farcical.
First of all, companies and their shares are not valued based on their assets, but on the discounted value of future cash flows. Assets are only relevant so far as they ultimately provide cash, or are sellable in their own right. They are particularly not valued on the basis of completely illiquid physical assets like Kirkby. (So, the stadium is ’worth’ £150M - to whom do you think the buyer is going to sell it on to for that value?)
Secondly, what has ’the old boys’ network’ got to do with the value of anything? Do you think some Russian oligarch or Arab sheik is going to purchase the club based on this?? We are talking real people and real money here, not something cooked up over a game of Monopoly.
Finally, if you are right, why on earth would anyone pay more for a club with what you believe will be a half full stadium and a mass of debt? Are there complete morons out there with the odd couple of hundred of million to blow on such a stupid investment?
Dave, at least you don’t completely contradict yourself by claiming that someone will pay more for what you believe will be a complete disaster. I disagree with you about that, and am not sure of the relevance of your ’but Bill believes it’. Obviously what Bill believes is that Kirkby will be good for the club. You disagree, and from your point of view he is going to lose money if Kirkby goes ahead, so at least you can be happy about that.
First of all, companies and their shares are not valued based on their assets, but on the discounted value of future cash flows. Assets are only relevant so far as they ultimately provide cash, or are sellable in their own right. They are particularly not valued on the basis of completely illiquid physical assets like Kirkby. (So, the stadium is ’worth’ £150M - to whom do you think the buyer is going to sell it on to for that value?)
Secondly, what has ’the old boys’ network’ got to do with the value of anything? Do you think some Russian oligarch or Arab sheik is going to purchase the club based on this?? We are talking real people and real money here, not something cooked up over a game of Monopoly.
Finally, if you are right, why on earth would anyone pay more for a club with what you believe will be a half full stadium and a mass of debt? Are there complete morons out there with the odd couple of hundred of million to blow on such a stupid investment?
Dave, at least you don’t completely contradict yourself by claiming that someone will pay more for what you believe will be a complete disaster. I disagree with you about that, and am not sure of the relevance of your ’but Bill believes it’. Obviously what Bill believes is that Kirkby will be good for the club. You disagree, and from your point of view he is going to lose money if Kirkby goes ahead, so at least you can be happy about that.
Neil
we could use up a whole section of TW arguing about share/asset valuations which can be based on series of different bases however my point was that IMO in Bk?s mind he sees the valuation of £150 million stadium going straight onto EFC?s assets while liabilities only go up by around £100 million.
The Championship-standard half-full stadium would only come to light afterwards.
He and his mates pulled the wool over at least 15,000 people?s eyes(including yourself) ? what?s so unrealistic over him believing he can pull the wool over an investor?s eyes? After all Ashley, bought Newcastle while ignoring due diligence...
we could use up a whole section of TW arguing about share/asset valuations which can be based on series of different bases however my point was that IMO in Bk?s mind he sees the valuation of £150 million stadium going straight onto EFC?s assets while liabilities only go up by around £100 million.
The Championship-standard half-full stadium would only come to light afterwards.
He and his mates pulled the wool over at least 15,000 people?s eyes(including yourself) ? what?s so unrealistic over him believing he can pull the wool over an investor?s eyes? After all Ashley, bought Newcastle while ignoring due diligence...
Guys, guy,s guys...
This whole saga is really simple...
You have this house, valued at £10m. If you plan to extend the land space, got the authority stamped and approved, the value will rise a little.
And if you get it approved, and built, the value will rise drastically.
If I am the owner, I will wait. Why rush? I have nothing to lose. Today, tomorrow, a week or a month later, he is still earning as a shareholder and chairman of EFC.
It has nothing to do with how much he paid for his EFC shares. C?mon, put yourself in his shoes: passion and another £10m... which will you choose? You will still get the additional £10m and be passionate right?!
He is just waiting for the right time. He?s an Evertonian, and of cos, a businessman.
Hope it make sense! hahaha!
This whole saga is really simple...
You have this house, valued at £10m. If you plan to extend the land space, got the authority stamped and approved, the value will rise a little.
And if you get it approved, and built, the value will rise drastically.
If I am the owner, I will wait. Why rush? I have nothing to lose. Today, tomorrow, a week or a month later, he is still earning as a shareholder and chairman of EFC.
It has nothing to do with how much he paid for his EFC shares. C?mon, put yourself in his shoes: passion and another £10m... which will you choose? You will still get the additional £10m and be passionate right?!
He is just waiting for the right time. He?s an Evertonian, and of cos, a businessman.
Hope it make sense! hahaha!
Neil
I’ve always considered myself an Everton lover, rather than a BK hater.
However, he cant or wont - I suspect its the former - extricate the club from this exclusivity agreement
As Tom asked you in a different thread, if DK stands up, whats the harm in listening to alternatives ?
Your comment about me being happy if BK didnt make any money by taking us to Kirkby doesnt make sense.
What sort of compensation would that be to me or anybody else ?
On the other hand, if he were to listen to other offers, find a suitable site in Liverpool and make . . .trillions, I would be comfortable with that, after all he would only have done what most other owners have done in the past 10 years
Selling the club is one thing, stripping it of its heritage and identity before you sell is another
I’ve always considered myself an Everton lover, rather than a BK hater.
However, he cant or wont - I suspect its the former - extricate the club from this exclusivity agreement
As Tom asked you in a different thread, if DK stands up, whats the harm in listening to alternatives ?
Your comment about me being happy if BK didnt make any money by taking us to Kirkby doesnt make sense.
What sort of compensation would that be to me or anybody else ?
On the other hand, if he were to listen to other offers, find a suitable site in Liverpool and make . . .trillions, I would be comfortable with that, after all he would only have done what most other owners have done in the past 10 years
Selling the club is one thing, stripping it of its heritage and identity before you sell is another
I have just seen on the BBC gossip pages that the Nigerians buying Newcastle's first signing will be the Yak.
Now I can?t for one minute think why a Nigerian investment company would be interested in Everton, I mean its not like we have any links to Nigeria or its people is it.......
Now I can?t for one minute think why a Nigerian investment company would be interested in Everton, I mean its not like we have any links to Nigeria or its people is it.......
Ian Edwards, I am against the move to Kirkby but I totally disagree that I am an ?embarrassment? to the club and I don?t think you?re in a position to be making ridiculous comments like that. It seems you're desperate for a short-term solution but don?t want to comprehend the possible long-term implications of a move.
It is the only option on the table because the club have signed an ?exclusivity agreement? to the project. It is also untrue that you say we are holding the club back because the government inquiry would have happened whether there were people against the move or not.
Dan, honestly now, would you want Everton owned by a Nigerian ’consortium’? How would ’Scammers 419’ on a Royal Blue jersey look? Not that I have anything against them. Oh, Feed the Yak.
If BK wanted to sell he could. Ashley has touted Newcastle and had several interested parties but his pricing is ridiculously high. Everton is a lot more of a reasonable price for any would be billionaire football club owners.
Does anyone know how it went with Georgio Ambarni at the Liege game?
Does anyone know how it went with Georgio Ambarni at the Liege game?
Yep, that certainly makes sense, I can see the email now:
Dear Mr Ashley,
I am a Nigerian General who has siphoned off proceeds from oil dealings over the past 15 years, I now need a bank account or football club in which to hide my ill-gotten gains, please send the sort code and account number for your club’s bank accounts so that I can share this vast wealth with you.
I mean, it wouldn’t be any worse business than he did on the HBOS shares spread :oD.
Seriously though, Bill is unlikely to sell to someone without considerable funds (why would he bother?). If you have considerable funds, would you a) want to be committed to a Stadium with a restrictive and flawed business model, or b) have a perfectly servicable Ground and the opportunity to build what you want (creaming any profit off the development for yourself)?
One note of caution though, I believe Bill would take Everton out to Kirkby with mixed feelings and a little reluctance, there’s no guarantee a new owner wouldn’t build us a spanking new state of the art Stadium... in Cronton, or Southport, or Warrington
Dear Mr Ashley,
I am a Nigerian General who has siphoned off proceeds from oil dealings over the past 15 years, I now need a bank account or football club in which to hide my ill-gotten gains, please send the sort code and account number for your club’s bank accounts so that I can share this vast wealth with you.
I mean, it wouldn’t be any worse business than he did on the HBOS shares spread :oD.
Seriously though, Bill is unlikely to sell to someone without considerable funds (why would he bother?). If you have considerable funds, would you a) want to be committed to a Stadium with a restrictive and flawed business model, or b) have a perfectly servicable Ground and the opportunity to build what you want (creaming any profit off the development for yourself)?
One note of caution though, I believe Bill would take Everton out to Kirkby with mixed feelings and a little reluctance, there’s no guarantee a new owner wouldn’t build us a spanking new state of the art Stadium... in Cronton, or Southport, or Warrington
I work with a Nigerian who’s opinion of Nigerian consortia owning Prem footballs clubs is very dim.
Owning and controlling the activities of an international brand, like a Prem football club, offers all sorts of opportunity for murky activities - we do not want to be getting into that mess.
Brings us to the next point. What the f&ck are some of you going on about whinging that the club is being valued too high and pricing itself out of the market?.
Do we want someone to come in who can’t afford a £200mn asking price?.
If the club is sold at Primark prices dont we guarantee that Kirkby will happen as the kind of person who balks at the asking price isnt going to go deep to rebuild Goodison or buy some prime piece of land for us inside the city limits.
Some of you want to think about the consequences of the actions you want to see a little bit harder!.
Owning and controlling the activities of an international brand, like a Prem football club, offers all sorts of opportunity for murky activities - we do not want to be getting into that mess.
Brings us to the next point. What the f&ck are some of you going on about whinging that the club is being valued too high and pricing itself out of the market?.
Do we want someone to come in who can’t afford a £200mn asking price?.
If the club is sold at Primark prices dont we guarantee that Kirkby will happen as the kind of person who balks at the asking price isnt going to go deep to rebuild Goodison or buy some prime piece of land for us inside the city limits.
Some of you want to think about the consequences of the actions you want to see a little bit harder!.
What about that Sports Trust Fund debacle? I guess that cheque is still in the mail, hey Bill? What’s taking so long. New investment is always a risk for the future.
How many well known European ?brands? are owned by Nigerian consortiums ? It?s just press speculation as various people try to boost their status by boasting that they want to buy a new ?toy? and once Nigerians are mentioned then it?s assumed that they?ll be buying Yakubu. Why not offer them a bonus deal with Anichebe and Yobo thrown in....
...I would very much doubt that any Nigerian consortium will be buying any big European football club. Perhaps there may be an individual Nigerian figurehead to a deal but there will be no fully Nigerian funded takeover.
Chris Leyland, by Keith Wyness? own promotionand admission it was stated the club expect to lose approximately 10-15,000 supporters as a result of moving to Kirkby, (the aim of replacing them with ?new evertonians from the Manchester-Liverpool corridor was seen as worthwile figures wise). Given that for the last home gate of 34,000 there would be 19-24,000 going to kirkby in a 50k capacity stadium, half full is ambitious as I don?t see any new evertonians from east lancs suddenly appearing.
Problem for the club is KW finances and projections were al based on best case scenarios, ie full capacity gate receipts, and with the cost of materilas and borrowing increasing etc, but we know all those figures don?t we?
Problem for the club is KW finances and projections were al based on best case scenarios, ie full capacity gate receipts, and with the cost of materilas and borrowing increasing etc, but we know all those figures don?t we?
Jay, I love it! Despite all the endless debate on the matter, the potential investor will be "fooled" by Kirkby, and will pay over the odds (to line Bill’s pockets), only to "discover later" that he has invested in a half full stadium. Are you serious about this sort of nonsense? At least I suppose your position is now clear: Bill making a killing out of Kirkby relies on some moron coming along who can’t even be bothered to read Toffeeweb or run any basic numbers on the finances of the new stadium. As I say: are you serious?
(And by the way shares of going concern businesses like Everton really are valued on the NPV of discounted cashflows - there is actually nothing to debate on this matter, so the assets really are irrelevant except insofar as they support future cashflows. Everton is not a real estate play but a football club.)
All am I really saying is: why don’t you Nos stick to your guns? What you believe is that Kirkby will be an obvious financial disaster for the club. Fine. I and many others disagree, but there are good arguments on both sides. But you can’t have your cake and eat it! If Kirkby is an obvious financial disaster, it cannot simultaneously be an opportunity for Bill to make a lot of money out of it.
Let’s stick to arguing about the merits of the case for Kirkby, for and against.
(And by the way shares of going concern businesses like Everton really are valued on the NPV of discounted cashflows - there is actually nothing to debate on this matter, so the assets really are irrelevant except insofar as they support future cashflows. Everton is not a real estate play but a football club.)
All am I really saying is: why don’t you Nos stick to your guns? What you believe is that Kirkby will be an obvious financial disaster for the club. Fine. I and many others disagree, but there are good arguments on both sides. But you can’t have your cake and eat it! If Kirkby is an obvious financial disaster, it cannot simultaneously be an opportunity for Bill to make a lot of money out of it.
Let’s stick to arguing about the merits of the case for Kirkby, for and against.
Neil
what are you talking about, the arguments for ? there are no arguments for
It usually goes like this . .
You regurgitate the tired old line "there are no alternatives"
Then you choose to ignore all the alternatives that are put forward
then in about a weeks time you come back on and say . . . . . . . . . wait for it . . . . . ."there are no alternatives"
Arguments for DK ???
You really are having a laugh
Youre begining to sound like a little britain character
what are you talking about, the arguments for ? there are no arguments for
It usually goes like this . .
You regurgitate the tired old line "there are no alternatives"
Then you choose to ignore all the alternatives that are put forward
then in about a weeks time you come back on and say . . . . . . . . . wait for it . . . . . ."there are no alternatives"
Arguments for DK ???
You really are having a laugh
Youre begining to sound like a little britain character
Dave, you really do encapsulate many of the problems with the Nos in your most recent post. Because YOU don’t think there are any good arguments for Kirkby, you simply assume that no one else could think there are any good arguments either. Or that anyone could disagree with you without being some sort of idiot.
I do you and all the other Nos the courtesy of acknowedging that, of course, there are some good and understandable arguments against Kirkby. It is not an easy and obvious decision to decide what to do about a new ground, especially when you are financially constrained. If it was, we wouldn’t all have been arguing about it for the past year.
It is a shame that instead of acknowledging that there are arguments on both sides, you choose simply to abuse those whom you disagree with, and state over and over again that they have no arguments.
I for one have written reams and reams of detail on arguments for Kirkby over the past year, as you well know. You disagree with me, Dave, and that’s fine, I disagree with you too (I think that’s what Toffeeweb is all about isn’t it?). So why pretend instead that there are no arguments in favour of Kirkby, that those who support Kirkby are idiots and dupes, and constantly resort to name calling? Can’t you do any better than that?
I do you and all the other Nos the courtesy of acknowedging that, of course, there are some good and understandable arguments against Kirkby. It is not an easy and obvious decision to decide what to do about a new ground, especially when you are financially constrained. If it was, we wouldn’t all have been arguing about it for the past year.
It is a shame that instead of acknowledging that there are arguments on both sides, you choose simply to abuse those whom you disagree with, and state over and over again that they have no arguments.
I for one have written reams and reams of detail on arguments for Kirkby over the past year, as you well know. You disagree with me, Dave, and that’s fine, I disagree with you too (I think that’s what Toffeeweb is all about isn’t it?). So why pretend instead that there are no arguments in favour of Kirkby, that those who support Kirkby are idiots and dupes, and constantly resort to name calling? Can’t you do any better than that?
Chris, you asked where the 50% missing supporters would be I pointed them out. Wyness accepted from a poll the size of the losses.
So here is a fact from me, what pitches up in Kirkby won?t be recognisable to me as Everton FC, the club have admitted to a rebranding, a Nu everton. Detached and severed from it?s history and heritage and having absolutely no links left with this city and it?s origins. So I wouldn?t support that, I wouldn?t recognise it. So now is the part where you get all high and mighty and claim to be a better supporter than me. Enjoy a ground on a supermarket car park in knowsley if you get it.
So here is a fact from me, what pitches up in Kirkby won?t be recognisable to me as Everton FC, the club have admitted to a rebranding, a Nu everton. Detached and severed from it?s history and heritage and having absolutely no links left with this city and it?s origins. So I wouldn?t support that, I wouldn?t recognise it. So now is the part where you get all high and mighty and claim to be a better supporter than me. Enjoy a ground on a supermarket car park in knowsley if you get it.
Neil
I accept there was arguments for Kirkby to begin with but they have simply been blown apart over the past year, thats why nobody can list them anymore
I’m not sure the "little brittain jibe" came out the way it was intended, but I’ll accept it wasnt funny and you have my appology
Can I do better than that ? seemingly not, I have tried not getting involved in this debate - as I know you too have - it seems to guarentee I’m at loggerheads with a fellow blue
I will try again
I accept there was arguments for Kirkby to begin with but they have simply been blown apart over the past year, thats why nobody can list them anymore
I’m not sure the "little brittain jibe" came out the way it was intended, but I’ll accept it wasnt funny and you have my appology
Can I do better than that ? seemingly not, I have tried not getting involved in this debate - as I know you too have - it seems to guarentee I’m at loggerheads with a fellow blue
I will try again
DK is the only way to make us investable. That’s why I’m still a yes
Guy Wilkinson
Very few words but spot on. Thank you for speaking sense.
Very few words but spot on. Thank you for speaking sense.
Thanks Dave - hatchets buried. I try too not to get involved, but I think it has become some form of addiction. I wish to God it would all end one way or the other! I know we both want what’s best for the club, but in the heat of the debate... Well, I will try again too. Back to commenting on Tony Marsh!
If a new low quality stadium in a location that cannot support it logistically means automatic new investment you might have the beginings of an argument. Ask yourself how did Portsmouth manage it in a stadium half the size of ours and far more basic, and with a fraction of our fanbase and history...... To sell anything the owner has to want to sell first.
Interesting comment Tom. What other Prem teams are there down there competing with Pompey?.
Now compare that with us.
Now compare that with us.
Steve,
What does it matter when we are already much larger than Portsmouth regardless of the fact that they have no immediate competitors? Given your argument though how have Man City managed to be taken over not once but twice despite not owning their own stadium and having even greater local competition in Man U? Sorry but the competing clubs argument holds little or no water.
What does it matter when we are already much larger than Portsmouth regardless of the fact that they have no immediate competitors? Given your argument though how have Man City managed to be taken over not once but twice despite not owning their own stadium and having even greater local competition in Man U? Sorry but the competing clubs argument holds little or no water.
As Michael stated, I am still awaiting clarification regarding the value of the club as the actual total share value appears to be less than £50m, and I assume it will be the purchase of those shares which will determine ownership. Is it actually including some form of goodwill to the tune of the additional £150-£200m, can there be additional value beyond the share value for a limited company......? genuine question.
Tom
You wanted to know how Pompey were good value for investment despite even poorer facilities to start with than we have?
Simple. Any money invested in them to bring on their new stadium is going to generate guaranteed revenue with a positive spiral effect as it's the only prem club within 50 miles radius of its ground. There is a great deal of untapped potential down there.
Compare that to us. We have more fans, but, the realistic revenue uplift of stepping up to a 50,000 seater stadium isn't going to be all that great, compared to a sizeable required investment, and Everton fans don't buy all that much merchandise it seems.
City are an even clearer example of this. They may not own that ground but they aren't likely to need a new ground or put any real expenditure that way for decades courtesy of Eastlands. Its simply not a concern for an investor and is, therefore, still an asset in the clubs favour over a team that does need a new ground.
Shinawatra jumped in to City because the only finance he really needed to put in was debt relief and a few million for new players. HE got the Arabs involved with Man City, allegedly, so it wasn?t a case of Man City attracting billionaires twice.
You can put your fingers in your ears, like the rest of the indolent, and repeat that it's all Kenwright's fault as much as you like.
Fact remains we?re not a good bet for a takeover where we are and, unless we get a billionaire fan taking over the reins, you can almost guarantee that new money coming in will want the DK move to go ahead for the same reason that the old money does.
You wanted to know how Pompey were good value for investment despite even poorer facilities to start with than we have?
Simple. Any money invested in them to bring on their new stadium is going to generate guaranteed revenue with a positive spiral effect as it's the only prem club within 50 miles radius of its ground. There is a great deal of untapped potential down there.
Compare that to us. We have more fans, but, the realistic revenue uplift of stepping up to a 50,000 seater stadium isn't going to be all that great, compared to a sizeable required investment, and Everton fans don't buy all that much merchandise it seems.
City are an even clearer example of this. They may not own that ground but they aren't likely to need a new ground or put any real expenditure that way for decades courtesy of Eastlands. Its simply not a concern for an investor and is, therefore, still an asset in the clubs favour over a team that does need a new ground.
Shinawatra jumped in to City because the only finance he really needed to put in was debt relief and a few million for new players. HE got the Arabs involved with Man City, allegedly, so it wasn?t a case of Man City attracting billionaires twice.
You can put your fingers in your ears, like the rest of the indolent, and repeat that it's all Kenwright's fault as much as you like.
Fact remains we?re not a good bet for a takeover where we are and, unless we get a billionaire fan taking over the reins, you can almost guarantee that new money coming in will want the DK move to go ahead for the same reason that the old money does.
Ste,
So you believe a long established and far more substantial fanbase in a far more historic and developable stadium is less investable than "untapped potential" on the south coast whatever that imponderable means? I have worked in both portsmouth and Southampton, where is this vast metropolis that needs untapping? How does it correlate with predominently meagre average attendances over the past century? We even managed much bigger average attendances in Div 2 while they were the top flight enjoying their best seasons, they have never finished above Everton in the average attendance tables even at their fully "tapped" peak.
Man City’s new owners have already stated that they will be purchasing the stadium from the council and looking at capacity expansion to make them the biggest for the future and the total cost is hundreds of Millions, so that kills having and owning or affording the stadium argument. This is chicken feed to them, and barely an issue.
What would you rather buy...... a club who’s current share value is seemingly less than just £50m, has finished in the top 6 for 3 out of the last 4 seasons, has the 4th longest honours list, one of the country’s best managers or .....one that has won just 2 league championships and a couple of cups in its entire history for many times the "apparent cost" of EFC, and you still have to buy their stadium for them?
You can twist and turn whichever imponderables you like but as I said before, the seller has to want to sell, and at present there isn’t much to show for selling, and the main stake holders and backers haven’t got their retail development sweetener that brought them onboard in the first place. In otherwords BK isn’t the only stakeholder and is beholden to others who haven’t necessarilly got our priorities at the top of their list.
So you believe a long established and far more substantial fanbase in a far more historic and developable stadium is less investable than "untapped potential" on the south coast whatever that imponderable means? I have worked in both portsmouth and Southampton, where is this vast metropolis that needs untapping? How does it correlate with predominently meagre average attendances over the past century? We even managed much bigger average attendances in Div 2 while they were the top flight enjoying their best seasons, they have never finished above Everton in the average attendance tables even at their fully "tapped" peak.
Man City’s new owners have already stated that they will be purchasing the stadium from the council and looking at capacity expansion to make them the biggest for the future and the total cost is hundreds of Millions, so that kills having and owning or affording the stadium argument. This is chicken feed to them, and barely an issue.
What would you rather buy...... a club who’s current share value is seemingly less than just £50m, has finished in the top 6 for 3 out of the last 4 seasons, has the 4th longest honours list, one of the country’s best managers or .....one that has won just 2 league championships and a couple of cups in its entire history for many times the "apparent cost" of EFC, and you still have to buy their stadium for them?
You can twist and turn whichever imponderables you like but as I said before, the seller has to want to sell, and at present there isn’t much to show for selling, and the main stake holders and backers haven’t got their retail development sweetener that brought them onboard in the first place. In otherwords BK isn’t the only stakeholder and is beholden to others who haven’t necessarilly got our priorities at the top of their list.
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1 Posted 22/09/2008 at 15:44:16
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I find it hard to believe that he is looking for investment 24/7 and that any investment depends on the stadium already being built. Its complete bullshit and am sick of it.
I said weeks ago, if i was a billionaire buying a club why would i want to be stuck with a stadium i had no say in. Like it or not the people with that kind of money have their own ideas and most of the time want them implemented. Being saddled with an out of town site, and second rate stadium is frightening them off.
Also heard that BK is also asking for in the regions o £250-300m for the club. Can someone remind me how much he has actually put in?