Post-match reactions in this thread, please. I'm closing the other one now...

If I was Moyes I would sign that new contract damn quick!

above all its boring. boring defensive football resulting in a boring season in which we have no real interest after christmas (relegation battle aside). That folowed by boring excuses by Bill.

A lot of people last year claimed we were punching above our weight - seems they were right.

A lot of overreaction today. I totally agree that we’re playing badly and lacking cohesion, the defence is, at times, shambolic and something has to change pretty quickly.

However, I think that most blues would agree that last season was not too bad, in terms of performance in the league, Carling Cup and UEFA.

For a bit of perspective, after our first 7 games last season, we had 10 points. By that stage, we had also drawn, at home, to Metallist.

After 5 games this season, we have 7 points and have drawn at home to Standard Liege. So the biggest difference between this season and the last, in terms of results, is the fact that we are out of the Carling Cup.

Remember, it took a derby to spark us into life last season.

I can’t disagree with the flak that the team are taking for their performances, they’ve been 2nd-rate at best, 3rd-rate for the majority. But I just wanted to point out that our season is far from over. This week is massive for us and if I had to choose one of the games to lose, it would have been last night’s.

I’m just hoping that the derby match will see the lads raise their collective game and will give us something to hang on to going over to Belgium. It’s potentially disasterous that we go out of the UEFA, remembering what happened the last season that we fell at the 1st in Europe.

The lads need a good kick up the arse before Saturday and a serious improvement is needed now. Let’s just hope it comes by the time we get to Liege, because that game could be the most important of our season.

A lot of overreaction today. I totally agree that we’re playing badly and lacking cohesion, the defence is, at times, shambolic and something has to change pretty quickly.

However, I think that most blues would agree that last season was not too bad, in terms of performance in the league, Carling Cup and UEFA.

For a bit of perspective, after our first 7 games last season, we had 10 points. By that stage, we had also drawn, at home, to Metallist.

After 5 games this season, we have 7 points and have drawn at home to Standard Liege. So the biggest difference between this season and the last, in terms of results, is the fact that we are out of the Carling Cup.

Remember, it took a derby to spark us into life last season.

I can’t disagree with the flak that the team are taking for their performances, they’ve been 2nd-rate at best, 3rd-rate for the majority. But I just wanted to point out that our season is far from over. This week is massive for us and if I had to choose one of the games to lose, it would have been last night’s.

I’m just hoping that the derby match will see the lads raise their collective game and will give us something to hang on to going over to Belgium. It’s potentially disasterous that we go out of the UEFA, remembering what happened the last season that we fell at the 1st in Europe.

The lads need a good kick up the arse before Saturday and a serious improvement is needed now. Let’s just hope it comes by the time we get to Liege, because that game could be the most important of our season.

As i’ve said before Trevor, we had no divine right to ’push on’ and what exactly did we do from january 1st to August 30th to make you think we would.

When i think of all those on here in August spouting ’oh yeah we should have 15 points in the bag by the derby’

Well now you know what most of us were saying back then. That farce of a summer means that ’we’ are no longer the same ’we’ and the good players we did have are being rendered useless or just plain disenchanted.

What I find amusing through all this is that Moyes is dithering over this new contract. If he doesnt sign it and leaves us for another club with this squad then hes done a better hatchet job than Agent Johnson did, but on the otherhand if he does sign it then I think its an utter waste of money

When you are an ’up and at them’ type of manager, which undoubtedly Moyes is - you will always have a shelf life at a club. (See Allardyce at Bolton/Jewell at Wigan etc). Personally I think Moyes is mentally tired of coming out with the same old crap week in and week out to the same old players. Whilst the players are bored of the same old crap that Moyes is spouting, as it’s the same thing said for the last 5 years. Everyone looks so bloody lethargic at the moment. Team spirit can only take you so far and this season it’s dangerously close to breaking. Familiarity breeds contempt in the end. Whilst I think Moyes has done a solid job in his tenure, I wouldn’t be too upset if he went at the end of this season. I think he and the club need a new impetus.

No excuses from me, I am as pissed off as the rest of you but going out to a premiership side at the first hurdle of the Carling Cup is not really the end of the world is it? They had already beaten us on the first day of the season and with my Dodd’s like optimism I can seek solace in the fact that we did not leak 3 goals like we did at home......clutching at straws....you betcha

forget about billy liar and moyes,its us fans that suffer and have to put up with this shit,just waiting for the echo to print neville’s railing call for the derby,by the way did moyes defend that perfomance last night,didn’t see any feed back last night to pissed off.

The transformation of how bad Everton have become since March is astonishing..Since we won at Sunderland on March 9 we have been absoloutly dreadful..
We have been dreadful to watch, our standard of football is dreadful ( Andy Johnson couldnt be more right) and in general our results have been dreadful..
Since mid-March we have beaten on Derby, Newcastle, West Brom and Stoke.. We dont ever look like keeping a clean sheet..
Our football is becoming Wimbledon reincarnated, its just hoof from defence into no mans land usually going out for a goal kick to the opposition..
We have now been beaten by a poor to average Blackburn side twice and on both times we can have no complaints at all, they are not a great team but they can do something we cannot and that is pass to a fellow team-mate and make the basics look easy, no better exapmle of how Tugay controlled the game even at the age of 38..
David Moyes has been here more than six years and for me the style of our football is still stuck in the dark ages, why are footballers so stupid to see that the ball played on the ground to feet, pass and move is far more penetrative than hopeful long misguided punts?.
It just always seems to be one step forward and three steps back with Everton.. Despite the semi final we reached last season we look no closer to winning a trophy under Moyes than when he first came, his record in Cups is abysmal in general..
Steve Round was another coup that mystifies me..
You would think we would have gone for a coach with a bit of European pedigree and someone with diffeent ideas to Alan Irvine, perhaps someone who can bring a new brand of ideas and football style that will get us more accustomed to when we do play in Europe, but no, we go for a guy with no pedigree at all and is just a Premier League also ran who coached England under the hopeless Steve McClaren era and also has been at those European leading lights of Middlesbrough and Newcastle..Why do we never learn?.
We call ourselves a big club but too often there is too much talk and no action from Everton..
I dont think it would be a wild accussation to suggest that our next two matches are going to either make or break our season at least this side of Christmas.. A derby defeat which seems almost inevitable and an exit in the UEFA Cup will make repairing the already fragile confidence even harder again especially with the fixtures coming up in October..
Depressing but how many of us predicted this scenario would happen when we sat here in the first week of August?

The transformation of how bad Everton have become since March is astonishing..Since we won at Sunderland on March 9 we have been absoloutly dreadful..
We have been dreadful to watch, our standard of football is dreadful ( Andy Johnson couldnt be more right) and in general our results have been dreadful..
Since mid-March we have beaten on Derby, Newcastle, West Brom and Stoke.. We dont ever look like keeping a clean sheet..
Our football is becoming Wimbledon reincarnated, its just hoof from defence into no mans land usually going out for a goal kick to the opposition..
We have now been beaten by a poor to average Blackburn side twice and on both times we can have no complaints at all, they are not a great team but they can do something we cannot and that is pass to a fellow team-mate and make the basics look easy, no better exapmle of how Tugay controlled the game even at the age of 38..
David Moyes has been here more than six years and for me the style of our football is still stuck in the dark ages, why are footballers so stupid to see that the ball played on the ground to feet, pass and move is far more penetrative than hopeful long misguided punts?.
It just always seems to be one step forward and three steps back with Everton.. Despite the semi final we reached last season we look no closer to winning a trophy under Moyes than when he first came, his record in Cups is abysmal in general..
Steve Round was another coup that mystifies me..
You would think we would have gone for a coach with a bit of European pedigree and someone with diffeent ideas to Alan Irvine, perhaps someone who can bring a new brand of ideas and football style that will get us more accustomed to when we do play in Europe, but no, we go for a guy with no pedigree at all and is just a Premier League also ran who coached England under the hopeless Steve McClaren era and also has been at those European leading lights of Middlesbrough and Newcastle..Why do we never learn?.
We call ourselves a big club but too often there is too much talk and no action from Everton..
I dont think it would be a wild accussation to suggest that our next two matches are going to either make or break our season at least this side of Christmas.. A derby defeat which seems almost inevitable and an exit in the UEFA Cup will make repairing the already fragile confidence even harder again especially with the fixtures coming up in October..
Depressing but how many of us predicted this scenario would happen when we sat here in the first week of August?

Colin Malone has it spot on,

While Kenwright is ultimately and obviously to blame for the lack of quality signings...and improvement in the squad - Moyes can in no way be absolved of his repetition of idiotic and frankly schoolboy tactical errors.

He makes some of the most bizzarre decisions in the history of football...and then after they?ve been seen to be meritless..actually goes and repeats them..ad infinitum.

This penchant for playing players out of position and treating some underachievers as though they are untouchable is frankly stupifying.

Last night Jagielka again showed his ineptitude - will he be dropped? Lescott allowed to play his natural position? and baines given the chance he deserves?

Like fuck they will!

I predict a cameo midfield role for neville on saturday.

Depression isn?t the word for it.

To me it seems obvious that despite all the noises and public statements from the club that they would back Moyes in the transfer market in the summer we simply have no money. Moyes was forced to sell AJ to raise capital and this explains why everything was done last minute. We paid 15 million on one player, the rest were frees or loans. The fact is we have sold more than we have spent this year. If the club have no money why are they continuously perpetuating this notion that we can break into the top 4. All I ask from them is a little honesty, but I guess that is to much to ask for.

Oh yes and BK is and has been looking for investment 24/7, while yet again Newcastle look to be on the verge of a takeover. He must not be looking to hard.

I am immensely disapointed in the Carling Cup result as all Toffee supporters would be. I cannot understand the logic of sending out an under strength side to face a fellow EPL side who to be frank, may not be classed amongest the top EPL teams, however did turn us over some 4 weeks ago!
Moysey dudded us last year out of the FA Cup with the same thought process and whilst as all Everton fans, we live and breath the dream that we can break into the top four as a club of our standing should. However the fact remains, we simply aren’t good enough consistently and our best chances of silverware are the CC, FA and UEFA competitions, yet Moyes theory is start with the best players available on the bench?
We just simply cannot get it together and whilst I’m sure the boys will be ’up for it’ come Saturday, the fact is that we are sadly out of form and couldn’t be striking the shite at a worse time for the club.
I know some fellow Evertonians will shoot me down in flames for even commenting about Moyes, however I have never been totally convinced of his ’messiah’ type status and certainly his summer ’activity’ (that’s said very loosely) and current managerial exploits leave a great deal to be desired.

I’m livid with Moyes post match comment that we’re lacking balance to the team at the moment! OF COURSE WE ARE DAVEY, what do you expect with 3 Def Mids and one C Mid played across the midfield!!! What a plonker.

I know we are currently forced to play square pegs in round holes but for me Vaughan or Anichebe RM, Fellaini DM, Osman CM, Baines LM with Cahill and one of Saha or Yak up front would have been far more BALANCED!!!!

For goodness sake we all know that the new lads will take 2-3 months to gel in . Castillo and Felliani will have never played football at this tempo , they havent had to close down people so quickly - give them time . Its not their fault that they were bought 7-8 weeks too late.
Moyes has taken the blame for the lack of movement in the summer and now as he predicted will take a number of months to get going. It means if we are going to get anything from this season it will come with a good 2nd half to it. We need to tread water until Xmas .

I dont like it as anyone else but I’m trying to be realistic with what’s happened. The major down side is that the back 4/5 have competely lost it at the moment , something Moyes wasnt expecting and they in turn can point to the lack of midfield help /support .

I do feel its going to go backwards for a while yet - or we come to our senses after a good 4-0 thrashing off someone.

I doubt if we’ll see Castillo or Felliani against Liverpool or Man Utd - they’ll and we’ll get destroyed . He’ll put Neville back in the middle for now whilst are new lads learn their Premiership trade against mmid and lower level clubs.

For goodness sake we all know that the new lads will take 2-3 months to gel in . Castillo and Felliani will have never played football at this tempo , they havent had to close down people so quickly - give them time . Its not their fault that they were bought 7-8 weeks too late.
Moyes has taken the blame for the lack of movement in the summer and now as he predicted will take a number of months to get going. It means if we are going to get anything from this season it will come with a good 2nd half to it. We need to tread water until Xmas .

I dont like it as anyone else but I’m trying to be realistic with what’s happened. The major down side is that the back 4/5 have competely lost it at the moment , something Moyes wasnt expecting and they in turn can point to the lack of midfield help /support .

I do feel its going to go backwards for a while yet - or we come to our senses after a good 4-0 thrashing off someone.

I doubt if we’ll see Castillo or Felliani against Liverpool or Man Utd - they’ll and we’ll get destroyed . He’ll put Neville back in the middle for now whilst are new lads learn their Premiership trade against mmid and lower level clubs.

Who else thought that the Carling Cup would give us the best route to qualify for Europe ? As so many clubs don’t take it seriously and field weakened squads then it is probably ’easier’ to win than the FA Cup. Although the Arsenal reserves seem to play well for a weakened squad !! Still we can qualify for Europe either by our league position or winning the UEFA Cup or the FA Cup - so no real pressure there :0) Maybe Richard Dodd can post so that we can all feel optimistic again.......

Who else thought that the Carling Cup would give us the best route to qualify for Europe ? As so many clubs don’t take it seriously and field weakened squads then it is probably ’easier’ to win than the FA Cup. Although the Arsenal reserves seem to play well for a weakened squad !! Still we can qualify for Europe either by our league position or winning the UEFA Cup or the FA Cup - so no real pressure there :0) Maybe Richard Dodd can post so that we can all feel optimistic again.......

Who else thought that the Carling Cup would give us the best route to qualify for Europe ? As so many clubs don’t take it seriously and field weakened squads then it is probably ’easier’ to win than the FA Cup. Although the Arsenal reserves seem to play well for a weakened squad !! Still we can qualify for Europe either by our league position or winning the UEFA Cup or the FA Cup - so no real pressure there :0) Maybe Richard Dodd can post so that we can all feel optimistic again.......

At the end of the day, you have to look at certain players who are not performing on a regular basis namely Lescott, Yobo & Howard. We have now got to the stage that clubs playing EFC are focused on those players weaknesses.
Get there heads right & we may start to improve.
Stop blaming Moysey for fuck sake, we all know whats happened this pre season !!

COYB.

The thing that infuriates me more than anything is the work rate.

Fellaini didn’t get within half a yard of a tackle and Lescott just doesn’t look as aggressive as last season

We need players that want to win and half of them last night just didn’t look arsed.


Neville’s Shite.

Dick Fearon/Kunai etc.

Why should we get tonked by the R.S?
They aren’t that brilliant ... only drew -0 - 0 at home with Stoke, just managed to scrape a win against Crewe at home in the Carling Cup!! Come on guys lets be optimistic and hope!!!

Fellaini was awful. What a waste of money.

I’d take a 0-0 on Saturday if it were offered now.

Nothing less than a win at the weekend to turn around this shit and give us some renewed hope

However, isn’t it the case that Robbie Keane hasn’t scored his first goal for the shite yet. Lump on

Nothing less than a win at the weekend to turn around this shit and give us some renewed hope

However, isn’t it the case that Robbie Keane hasn’t scored his first goal for the shite yet. Lump on

Test

I dont know what Moyes was thinking with that midfield last night, no width what-so-ever! We will always struggle without Arteta in the side (especially with no Pienaar also) but that can be said for a lot of sides, Man U with no Ronaldo, RS with no Gerrard etc..! It aint as bad as what some of you are saying on here tho, If we get a chance to start playing 4-5-1 with Arteta, Pienaar and Cahill in the side then things should click again providing the defence gets its act together!

Moyes should have the decency to leave straight away, or if he thinks he can do anything to stop this rot, of his own making, he should sign a contract for two years, getting the same money that he is on now. I personally don’t think he could do it, because he is utterly useless, and very good at proving it.

It’s been awful, yes, but let’s look at the bright side. Somehow, despite playing the worst football we have for some years, we are still top half and just a couple of points of fifth. Yes, I know they were all from newly promoted times, but once we get going we can take points off anyone. I know. This isn’t my first time on earth.

Moyes should have the decency to leave straight away, or if he thinks he can do anything to stop this rot, of his own making, he should sign a contract for two years, getting the same money that he is on now. I personally don’t think he could do it, because he is utterly useless, and very good at proving it.

Everything was done way too late, we should have strengthened in Jan, but no we only ever sell in Jan. To be honest I don?t see us ever recovering now, Villa & City are beyond us, with money and squad quality. Our chance came in May, when we SHOULD have sought investment, and moved on. I fear we have taken not one step back but 5. Mid-table at best. Dour football/Hoofball. Our club is fucked, and most of the blame lies with that wanker Kenwright!

Now we can look forward to Nevile and a few others spouting shite about how they need to get things right in the derby game.
Kenwright is still a useless cunt.

Silverware under Moyes. Yeah right. Have we played well this year yet? OK, we have 7 points but have we deserved them. No, Moyes has throw the towel in.

This is very poor...... We are gonna get done over by the redshite & our arses kicked outta the Uefa Cup.... Things look bleak... can anyone see something to look forward to? Or any light at the end of this tunnel?.... I certainly can?t.
Nil satis nil optimism!

While I?m not a Bullshit Billy?s fan, in fairness he cannot be blamed for what goes wrong on the pitch. He is not the person who is scoring own goals or playing like a novice at an 11 game. Lay the blame where it is due, the manager and the players. Two wins and a draw against the promoted sides and beaten by everyone else. The time to step up to the plate has come lads. Starting on Saturday. Surprise me. By fuck I would be surprised

Yes, Tony, an express train coming to kill whats left. Still, as blue Bill will say.... WATCH THIS SPACE!

We currently have several players playing below their normal standards. As our squad is so small we can?t drop more than one or two players to give them a kick up the arse. When a team is in an obvious funk like this it's the responsibility of the manager to shake them out of it. Agree with Alan I?m not interested in some bullshit rallying call or "we need to get it right" statement from Neville.

My predictions posted 30/08/08. Sadly on course:

http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/08-09/comment/fan/article.asp?submissionID=9039

No balance in midfield. I've said many times, we need a midfield coach. someone who won't put centre-forwards on the wing, defenders in midfield. We cannot play the two new lads in the same side when Cahill plays.

A season of failure ahead, I?m afraid. Sick of it already at this stage.

It would be good to win the Carling Cup, have a cup run blah blah and the spin machine wheels fall off every time.

I bet the computer guys have to work late to pull all the stories off the site quickly.

Declan
of course Bullshit Billy can be blamed for what’s happening on the pitch.

He bullshitted all summer about there being funds and not being affected by DK when if he had been honest with Moyes we would have at least got some decent quality loan players in before 2 weeks into the fucking season.

Kenwright is a first class liar and cheat and needs to go quickly before we sink like a lead balloon.

We?ll get a tonking from the shite this weekend..... just watch!

Jay,
I agree with everything you say about Bullshit. However 9 of the 13 players who played tonight are full internationals. They must also take some blame as must the manager.

Christ, Moyes has got it made at this club. The team go out of the carling at the first hurdle and it?s all the fucking chairman?s fault. I ask you...
For £3.5M a year, Moyes should be able to prepare and organise his not inconsiderable squad better than the shite we suffered tonight. I can?t stand Kenwright but he pays good money for a manager to do a job which is beginning to look beyond him.

My sentiments exactly, George. But let's not also forget the overpaid fat cats that are privileged to wear our beloved club shirt.

Sorry I meant Fred, Fred
Cheers

If the plan was to get the RS over-confident, then it's a roaring success. A bit more bullshit from Captain Phil will have them rolling in the aisles. We can all point the finger at percieved culprits but it is ridiculous to blame BK.

My own pet hate is to see Osman in the starting line-up. His much vaunted fancy ball play does not alter the fact that he fails badly in his number one job which is to win the ball and dominate the midfield. In that aspect, Arteta is not much better.

Against the reds they never have anywhere near what could be called a good game. Despite that, I expect them to be in the team and when the going gets tough both will do their usual dissapearing trick. Thank god we have a few battlers, like Cahill.

Did any one else see phil neville walk off with his head in his hands, after comming across to clap the fans and getting the loudest boo of the night. I’m no neville fan, and thought the performance tonight was the worst so far this season, but to single just him out was a bit unfair. I think we might see phil back in midfield on saturday with hibbert in at right back.

If it?s any consolation, Man City and Aston Villa lost too. We?re not in the position to fight on all fronts if our ?peers? are concentrating on the big prize: top 4 in the Premier League. COYB

Can somebody explain to me Moyes?s player choices, tactics and substitutions today, since I just don?t understand them (perhaps one of us has lost the script)?

The starting line-up included three defensive midfielders plus Osman, whose role in midfield is always a complete mystery to me:

Howard,
Neville, Yobo, Jagielka, Lescott,
Rodwell, Castillo, Fellaini, Osman
Vaughan, Saha.

Substitutions at half-time give us this 3-man midfield line-up that invites hoofball, not confidence:

Howard,
Neville, Yobo, Jagielka, Lescott,
Rodwell, Cahill, Osman,
Vaughan, Saha, Yakubu .

And finishes the game with this half-pint-sized midfield - Rodwell excluded:

Howard,
Neville, Yobo, Jagielka, Lescott,
Rodwell, Cahill, Osman, Baxter
Saha, Yakubu .

I can?t imagine that Moyes?s substitutions indicate a ?risk-taking?, winning attitude. I wouldn?t be surprised if he is getting round advice!

Is Moyes too bothered about his contract to lure decent players in? More money on transfers = less for him?

Surely not... but the recent performances have been pretty awful and Fellaini looks more like £1.5m than £15m so far!

Derby game is a big one. A poor effort will leave a lot of Blues not too bothered about Moyes?S new contract...

but who the hell else could we get in?

Don?t suggest Bilic... and please don?t mention Peter Reid, Joe Royle or anyone else (MIke Newell) with tenuous links to EFC.

Troubled times... still, it?s only the Carling Cup right??

NO! We are a very poor team at the moment ? it?s serious!!

Perhaps the pundits were right. It’s time for Moyes to go when he can’t inspire his troops!

Gutted about how this season is turning out. After two years of relative success (qualifying for europe), I really thought we?d push on. Maybe not top four, but top 6 and silverware (though we've still got the Uefa and FA cups, I can?t see us winning either). It?s a shame, but looks like it?s back to mediocrity again.

Completely agree with Fred. Moyes can do no wrong. I'm sure if he decided to not bother turning up and listen to the match instead on the radio, it would be Kenwright's fault. FFS he gets paid to manage the team not to worry about politics/takeovers etc. His team isn't a load of 2nd division players, it's full of internationals who should be able to be moulded into a decent side. They look clueless and afraid of the ball.

I'm absolutely seething about Moyes now, if he doesn't sign his contract and doesn't want to be here, get rid and get in somebody who does. And, no, I don't know any candidates but surely there is somebody out there who still coaches the basics of pass to feet and move into space to receive the ball.... Isn't Moyes meant to be one of the most qualified coaches in the land??? ... ha! ha!! ha!!!

The team lacked balance in midfield. I can’t understand why he hasn’t tried Leighton Baines left mid whilst Peanuts out injured.

Who else thought that the Carling Cup would give us the best route to qualify for Europe? As so many clubs don?t take it seriously and field weakened squads then it is probably ?easier? to win than the FA Cup. Although the Arsenal reserves seem to play well for a weakened squad!! Still, we can qualify for Europe either by our league position or winning the Uefa Cup or the FA Cup ? so no real pressure there :0) Maybe Richard Dodd can post so that we can all feel optimistic again.......

How many people are rolling out the old chestnut of "players needing time to gel".

Do you live in an Everton bubble? There are other teams around you know, and, shock-horror, they have..."new players to gel" too!! This means we are doing it worse than everyone else...

Bottom line - we are playing relegation football at the moment. Our forecast goals conceded is currently somewhere between 60-80. You cannot hope to gain many Premier League points, or progress in cup competitions, when you have to score 3 times in a game to win.

It's not good enough, and I can't see us finishing top 10 this season. In fact, our season will largely be over by this time next week....