The Mail Bag

The moment, the man, contracts and legacies

Comments (57)

It hasn't attracted much comment but for me the defining moment yesterday came immediately after the first RS goal. I looked across to our dugout and really wanted to see Saha on the touchline ready to come on before the restart ? plan A (defend and hope) was dead and time to move on to plan B. I should have known better ? Moyes takes an age to get any sub on and in his mind he was obviously still thinking about plan A. 2 minutes later and bang the game is over and on trots Saha ? Moyes will never never learn and will never never change and that little cameo sums him up.

In relation to his contract it would now be commercial suicide and lunacy for the club to commit up to £17m at a time when they may need to sack him within weeks. Moyes has played hard ball over the contract for months and has massively over played his hand. It is now time for the club to play hard ball and tell him that they will review the situation in January and may leave the final decision until the end of the season. Trust me this job is the biggest that Moyes will ever get (the joke league in Scotland aside) and he has no cards left to play.

When he does go (and I think it will be sooner rather than later) what legacy will he leave behind? The truth is that his only tangible legacy will be that his sucessor faces a better situation than he inherited. He won't leave any trophies, he won't leave a settled and attractive style of play and he won,t have improved the public perception of us as club which plays football in the right way.

Why do some people find it so hard to accept that everything has its time and Moyes's time is coming to an end? Don't drag it out Kenwright ? for once, don't bullshit, do the right thing and end it it in a quick and clean manner.
John Doolan, Upper Malden     Posted 28/09/2008 at 11:05:53

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Brian Noble
1   Posted 28/09/2008 at 12:57:07

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David Moyes says today that the difference between his side and Liverpool`s is the £100Million the Fat Waiter has been able to spend. Now just supposing one of those Indian/Arabic/Chinese/Nigerean/Americans that BB speaks to 24/7 suddenly came up with the money ? would you trust Our Davey to spend it wisely? Given the length of time it took him to invest less than a fifth of that amount over the summer ? and the end result of all that dithering, I'm not so sure I would!

There's a growing feeling amongst Evertonians that Davey was a man of his time and that his time has now past. There seemed to be more angst among supporters yesterday that he might actually sign that bloody contract than he wouldn`t. Certainly more than a few of us would not be confident of his judgement in the market or his ability to get the best from mega stars ? however much they cost.

Well, Davey has set the hare running ? "Come up with the money," he seems to be saying, "otherwise we shouldn't be on the same pitch as that lot over the park." But is it really that simple? Would a massive cash injection make you automatically believe that Moyes could see us challenging them for honours at home and abroad? Personally, I don't. I think I might want to keep about £17M of it back to get us a more enlightened manager!

Tony Marsh
2   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:03:20

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Well said, John, spot on mate. Dave's time is up and yesterday's performance is one of the worst derby displays ever. It doesn't matter what money is available to Moyes in the future because Moyes doesn't know how to handle flair players or play attacking football and that's a fact.

Moyes needs to go sooner than later as this season is already over. The only points we have taken so far this season have been off the 3 newly promoted sides. God only knows what happens now when we start playing the big guns.
Ste Kenny
3   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:17:59

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Thursday will be a defining game in our season. We will see if moyes can lift the players, the club and the fans. I'm worried that he can't though. If he can't, I think we've seen the last of him at GP.
COYB
Tom Edwards
4   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:20:30

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I have to agree with the sentiments expressed above. Moyes has shot himself in the foot with his dithering over signing his new contract. When we go out of the UEFA cup on Thursday, he must surely have the sense to resign, let alone even think about signing a new contract! I think the fact that he didn’t sign his new contract on the morning of the derby speaks volumes. Perhaps BK had decided to wait for the outcome of the derby and UEFA matches before he committed £17m to DM.

We need a new direction in the form of a benefactor and a new, proven manager. Unfortunately I think all we will get is BK’s 24/7 shite and Sam Allardyce!
Dan McKie
5   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:24:15

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For the life of me, I cannot understand why Moyes has not signed this contract. He wont get more than £3.5 million a year, anywhere, certainly not from the Big Two in Scotland. Also, his stock can only go down in my opinion. Even if the team pull off a great result in Liege and go through to the next stage of the Uefa Cup, would that really make people think Moyes is any better than before? No, and if we go out, then that is 2 from 3 cups gone by the beginning of October! If new owners did come in (yeah right), then it would surely be better for him to be tied for 5 years in case these guys wanted rid and could do it on the cheap with no contract signed! It's a complete mystery!
Brian Waring
6   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:42:28

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You know things are bad when you have Man U (even though they are southern Man U) fans saying we deserved what we got, for being shithouses, and they were glad the shite turned us over. Worst thing was, I only went out for a few quiet lunchtime beers, and had to put up with loads of slagging off.
Dave Richman
7   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:40:51

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I don’t normally post on here due to the... shall we say.... extreme reactions that tend to follow.

However, this thread hits it exactly on the head. How many times have we been sitting here thousands of miles away screaming for something to happen when its absolutely fucking OBVIOUS where the team selection has gone awry.

Fair comment about making the switch after the shite’s first goal, but for me the change should have been made at HALF TIME for Chrissakes. Why are our substitutions ALWAYS reactive? Why do we always wait until a goal down before doing anything? Or fuck about for another couple of minutes and then go 2 down and game over.

Someone said they thought Hibbert did well in the first half.... well I think he stunk the gaff out and gave Riera and Keane the freedom of that side of the pitch. Luckily they are both crap and didn’t take advantage.

My heart bled for the Yak..... 25 yards ahead of everyone else, and so the game was crying out for more upfront.

Fellaini was so far off the pace it wasn’t funny. OK, take all the factors into account.... young... doesn’t speak the lingo etc etc..... but that doesn’t excuse being 6’5" and not able to jump for a ball. He was struggling - obviously - so make a fucking change!!!!

Saha and Castillo on at half-time for Hibbo & Fellaini. Neville to right back. That’s what I was bellowing for..... we may not have won, but we may just have at least interrupted Reina filing his nails for 90 minutes. BUT we will never know, will we?

And as for Red Mike?...... Don’t get me started.

Rant over

Karl Jones
8   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:41:45

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If Everton get rid of Moyes or he resigns, another period of instability begins. Who better are we likely to get? As Tom Edwards says, the likes of Sam Allardyce! The very top managers nowadays need to smell Big Money or they don't want to know.

Everton are treading water financially in the Premier League. The likes of Portsmouth, Man City, Aston Villa and probably Newcastle soon are racing ahead, but under Moyes, as has been proved, we are a stable club capable of overcoming the huge financial gap.

The side at the moment is undermined by players carrying injuries or getting back to fitness, or new players finding their feet. Form will return there is no doubt. You only have to look at our league placings since we were relegation candidates every year to see that over a season it improves.

If we change the manager, all this progress goes out of the window. Best players will be sold to raise cash and that's a huge gamble.
Brian Hill
9   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:37:01

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Don’t worry, Everton FC is safe. I have just received an email from Nigeria telling me that someone I have never heard of wants to give me billions of dollars for free. All I have to do is give them details of my bank account and the money will be paid in soon. Obviously I shall then end Bill’s 24/7 search for investment and buy Everton!! Happy days are just an email away!!
Mick Fleming
10   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:31:51

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The Carling Cup performance and the Derby spoke volumes about how far or how much further DM can and has taken us. An important home match built up with all of the typical PR shite about owing the fans and winning silverware. We talk the talk but we certainly can?t walk the walk.

They say that you set your stall out in matches and ours is laughable, defend, defend then hoof and then defend a bit more and the thing is we can not defend anyway. What we want is consistency and attractive football not route one shite with one man up front. I for one am sick of seeing it and am not relishing my trip to Belgium, I cling on to the faint hope that the team will wake up and deliver. Then again I do support Everton so you never know what will happen.

New contract for Moyes, I say NO you had your chance and maybe it is a blessing in disguise, you have pissed us about enough and created uncertainty. Remind us what we have won or are we all happy with our consistent inconsistency. Sort the mess out and then let?s talk, otherwise go somewhere else and preach your negative shite tactics.
Rich Jones
11   Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:23:49

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Right from the start, the game was an accident waiting to happen; however, only the person that matters couldn't see it.
Mike Oates
12   Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:21:39

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New manager required. Has to be able to get us into Top 6 regularly, Europe regularly, ensure we don't spend our time in bottom half of the table as we did prior to Mr Moyes, oh by the way transfer budget is £10m at best and only available late August.

The manager will also have to sell in January to give us enough monies to pay staff wages Jan-July.

There is also a salary cap of £40k per week ? under no circumstanes will that be broken. The new manager will have to be a world class manager capable of attracting CL standard players who will take wage cut.

For goodness sake get real. Perhaps you?ll all want Howard or Joe back. Next thing you?ll be as bad as the Barcodes and insist that only scousers apply.
Richard Dodd
13   Posted 28/09/2008 at 15:25:20

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This really is becoming a full-time job answering the band-wagon jumpers who want us to think that the end is nye. But whatever these ?usual suspects?would have us believe, the season is only SIX games old and even these football illiterates should know that you can NEVER pre-judge a season at this stage.

OK, so we?re all disappointed that Davey has taken a while to chew over the small print of the proferred new contract but that?s no reason to turn on the man who has done so much for our club and is only taking care to safeguard his future in its service. In any case, his present agreement doesn?t expire until next February, for crissake!

As far as his expertise in the transfer market is concerned, his record is on par, if not better than any of his ?second tier? colleagues and if he looks a little enviously on what that man across the park has been given to spend, don?t we all?

So instead of sounding off and holding the man responsible for everything short of the outbreak of the Second World War, let?s cut him some slack, shall we? After all, he?s a bit pre-occupied at the moment preparing for a game on Thursday.

Tony Marsh
14   Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:34:26

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Mr Dodd, what most of us 'bandwagon jumpers' want is to see some progress in a footballing sense. It's absolutely dire the way we play and it invites other teams to attack us. Moyes's sides never give the opposition problems to worry about, we just worry about them. We never try anything new and our tactics are as easy to read as a Janet and John book. This is why fans are getting sick and tired of it all. It's shite and Moyes seems incapable of sorting it out. It's hoofball after hoofball and surely even you can see that?
Ste Andrew
15   Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:34:32

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Pre-occupied? Preparing for a game on Thursday is he? Wow, it probably takes less than 5 minutes, if that, for his match preparations... I mean, we have seen it on the pitch this season for proof of that!
Marc Williams
16   Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:27:54

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Karl Jones - I don?t think there is any way to avoid a period of instability / change as if we don?t make a change Moyes will go when his contract runs down anyway. The way I see it is that we are where we are, ie, in for a tough season with a battle on just to stay up & are looking stale.

Given that Moyes appears to have given up, maybe we should bite the bullet & appoint someone who can re-invigorate the squad. I take on board what you say about managers & money but given the size of the contract offered to Moyes I?m sure someone proven could be tempted. Many foriegn managers are on poor money by comparison to the EPL eg Slaven Bilic is on approx £60k a year, so I?m sure we could afford to attract someone talented.

Sebastian St Clare
17   Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:59:31

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Thank god for Richard Dodd, I say. A lone voice of sanity on this very anti site!
Marc Williams
18   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:00:29

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Richard Dodd - So we are all football illiterates & bandwagon jumpers now are we.

I?m certainly NOT the former & don?t see how I can be the latter as the start to the season has proved what I?ve been saying ALL summer would happen.

Go back and read your posts of the last six months you?ve been proved wrong time after time after time. Trouble with you is you don?t have the humility or honesty to admit it.

FOOTBALL ILLITERATE is it, then YOU must be looking in the mirror.
Stephen Stuart
19   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:04:46

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Sebastian St Clare is Richard Dodd?s lovechild.... and good luck to them in LaLaLand
Joeynkoo Ludden
20   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:06:41

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..."David Moyes says today that the difference between his side and Liverpool?s is the £100Million.."

Strange how Hull didn't let that affect them on Saturday ? after going a goal down too. So it is possible then... if you know what you?re doing!
Dan McKie
21   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:02:58

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Sebastian and Richard, I am in no way anti-Moyes or anything else to do with Everton (including the board), but it is so frustrating watching what we did yesterday when things could have been so different with just a little more adventure! We all saw what the team are capable of last season when we went on an amazing run, playing attractive football and winning games comfortably, so why do we always revert back?

On a corner that we had yesterday, Liverpool had every player of theirs defending in their own penalty box, so what do we do? Have 4 of our players well outside the box! Why? 4 players defending against nobody, and to make things even worse, we then didnt even win the ball outside the box when it was inevitably headed away, because our players were too far back!

We bottled it yesterday, I would sooner have seen us play like we have all season so far and defend badly but at least look like we are going to score at the other end!

Ged Dwyer
22   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:05:21

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Great letter John. Totally agree. At the end of last season Moyes needed to keep the squad together, sign a couple of good midfield players (maybe Sidwell and Bullard) early on and then see if he could bring in a decent winger. But instead he went for players who were never going to come here, had an obsession with making a big signing and ended up making last minute signings that were far too late for the players to bed in (Even if Fellaini comes good look at the mess we?re in now).

When will the penny drop with Moyes that Lescott and Arteta are fed up with being played out of position. They were happy to help out initially but are now going through the motions, nothing else. Andy Johnson admitted he didn?t like getting played wide right and didn?t like the long ball. He joined the long list of strikers who have suffered the same fate i.e.: Rooney, Radzinski, Bent, Beattie, Vaughan and even more recently poor Victor has been asked to play wide right. Moyes will even ask the young Rodwell, a centre back, to play wide right.

The man is reckless and we wonder why we look a shambles. And when it comes to tactics and substitutions the guy is so inept.

Mick Fleming
23   Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:54:18

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Richard Dodd ? Don?t you have a normal job or do you just sit in front of your PC all day answering us band-wagon jumpers. Look at our last 17 competitive games since Fiorentina not the last SIX that you mention and then offer your opinion on that, don?t forget to add the pre-season if you wish.

Can you please tell us what second tier managers he has faired better than? I don?t care about other teams or the shite across the park, I only support Everton and will no matter what happens.

If we get beat on Thursday will you say, cut him some slack because he is preparing for the game on Saturday. How did he prepare for Blackburn and after that load of shite, how did he prepare for the Derby need I go on.

Before blaming us band-wagon jumpers for everything from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars cut us some slack as we have a game to travel to on Thursday. Get the message Doddy?

David Jones
24   Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:54:04

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There is no small print in David Moyes contract for him to mull over ? it's all about money, money, money. He wants more so he will not sign. Well, now it's backfired on Davey; now BK will start dictating to him rather than feel he is over a barrel with the fans. BK knows now we are not happy and feels that he can call Davey?s bluff without risking the wrath of the fans.
Phil Owen
25   Posted 28/09/2008 at 16:53:56

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Although I was bitterly disappointed about yesterday both in the manner in which we played and the result, I think this thread does smell slightly of knee-jerking and jumping on the band wagon.

I think people reading this thread should appreciate what Richard Dodd has written above before posting a comment.

I believe the season has not yet started for us. Taking injuries, internationals and getting new faces in late on in the transfer window into account I believe the team has the potential to get better sooner rather than later. I posted in another thread on Friday; patience is needed.

Lets also compare our situation to that of a Newcastle or Spurs fan. Spurs spent upwards of £70 million in the summer and have 2 points from 18. I have spoken to Spurs fans who considered Ramos as some kind of managerial god, but now are having second thoughts. Newcastle are a farce of a club and will hopefully get relegated. Lets not make similar mistakes or have Everton end up in a similar state.

I hope DM signs his contract. I know our season will get better, and I believe we can win on Thursday. Lets all "calm down" (sorry) and support the players and manager not turn on them like Newcastle and Spurs fans. We are better than that!

I am not an eternal optimist. I am a realist. If we are still in the shit at Christmas my tune may have changed......!
Carl Roper
26   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:13:57

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The only thig more depressing than yesterday?s tactics and the performance of the team was the performance of some of our "supporters".

How much longer will the decent majority of Evertonians have to put up with the moronic song about the paternity of Steven Gerrard?s baby and the utterly grotesque "murderers" chant?
Mick Fleming
27   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:25:23

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Phil, what part of Richard's thread do you refer to because, yes, I read it and I have just read it again thank you.

Perhaps you can help him out by reading my last thread before you comment or maybe answer the questions that I posed on his behalf.
Marc Williams
28   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:24:41

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Phil Owen - You say "I beleive the season has not yet started for us".

Well I?ve got some bad news for you fella, the season started for everyone in August.
As I can?t see three worse teams than us let?s just hope its not over by Easter!
Phil Owen
29   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:39:03

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Marc - "I believe the season has not yet started for us" was a figure of speech, not to be taken literally - fella
As for teams worse than us - Stoke, Newcastle, Sunderland, Bolton, WBA, maybe Wigan, maybe Spurs if their slump continues. Hulls great start will almost certainly fade.
Let's face it, some people are more positive than others.
Mick Fleming
30   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:04:41

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Phil - I go to the match and am going to Belgium and it really hurts me inside to see the shite being served up. No passion, no commitment and no clue but who is to blame, well according to you it?s not really a problem yet. I say look back since Fiorentina for a good insight into our poor form. But hey lets ignore that and the pre-season and the dithering and the lack of personal commitment (contract) and the panic buying and wipe the slate clean from August because there are others worse of than us. Who gives a shit about other clubs we are Everton?

Phil, I don?t think you understood my question in response to Richard's. Do you know what, I couldn?t be arsed arguing now so don?t worry about it. I know what I think and it seems like a lot of other people think similar.
Dan McKie
31   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:58:35

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Carl Roper, I agree with what you are saying to a point about the chants, but how much longer do we have to put up with articles before every derby, from the likes of Carragher about how bad we are and how happy it makes them to see us lose, and have players like Gerrard in the refs face all game! Also, being refered to as ’bitter blues’ because we know what that european ban did to us as a club. They never seem to have taken responsibilty for any of the ’tragedies’ they were involved in and never seem to be made to either!
Darrel Pugh
32   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:50:26

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Moyes needs help he has a mental disease he should taken to a secure unit and kept away from the public. There can be no other reason to explain what he has done in the last six months. These are not actions of a sane man capable of making decisions, the manager is ill and must be removed and replaced.
James Marshall
33   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:08:02

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I think everyone is missing the big point here, and Tony Marsh especially ? forget the fact that it was the derby yesterday, and take into account this: Liverpool are one of the best teams in Europe, whether you like it or not it's true ? we?re not, we?re a half decent top-half Premier League side without a pot to piss in so you have to look at it sensibly and objectively. We could?ve been playing Barcelona, Man Utd or Milan yesterday and done similarly well/badly based on the fact that Liverpool are an established Champions League standard team as are the other teams I mention.

Everton would struggle in the CL, and you have to bear this in mind when we play the English top 4 because they are ALL, established CL teams.

Moyes out, my arse, he?s the best manager we?ve had in years and I for one will never turn against him ? he?s done more for this club than you or I could ever do and deserves more respect.
Alan Codd
34   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:09:04

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Carl Roper whilst on the behaviour of supporters, what possesed the Scum fans from throwing bottles and coins onto the Park End fans just after they'd scored and the police officers ejecting EFC fans who voiced there displeasure at this?
Marc Williams
35   Posted 28/09/2008 at 17:56:38

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Phil - My point was somewhat ?tonque in cheek? but also vaild.

There have been ?calm downers? on here all summer & now into the season making excuses & telling us things will be ok when players are back or settled in etc but it just doesn?t work like that. I just don?t think you can say things like ?the season hasn?t started for us yet? with the inference being it?ll be supposedly ok when the season does start for us ? whenever that will be? It doesn?t work like that because the competetion is so great & the margins between success & failure are so fine in the EPL.

A few years ago I was on holiday with an Arsenal friend of mine on the first match day of the season. At the time we we always fighting relegation & they were always 1st or 2nd. As we waited on results it struck me how desperate both of us were for points on the board even in this first game. There was NO room for poor starts or error anymore wherever you were in the prem?.

This poor start to the season has already cost us a European place & if we don?t win against the barcodes then with our next run of fixtures we are in big trouble. It's ok saying players will be back BUT others will be injured or suspended by then so on balance we will be no stronger.

As for your list of worst teams only the barcodes look more shambolic than us. West Brom are poor but I was at the our opening game & for large spells they completely outplayed us.

We needed to be ready to hit the ground running from day one (Yes ? back in August) just to stand still as the lost ground cannot be made up.

Anthony Hughes
36   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:21:57

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Mike Oates, you joke about having Howard or Joe back? ?have you forgotten that they done something that Moyes has not and never will do?? WON TROPHIES!!!!!!!!!!
Tony Clements
37   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:25:59

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I do think that Moyes?s £100M comment may be at the centre of his present apparent disaffection. One of the better connected journos told me yesterday that the deal on offer is very much tied to league and cup achievements and to counter balance this, Davey is insisting on a guarantee that minimum annual transfer funding of £30M should be available. The club feel this should include proceeds from sales whilst the manager is looking for it to be net. My feeling is that now the tide is turning against him he will stop being pedantic and sign up!
John Andrews
38   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:13:54

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With all due respect, James, has it ever occurred to you that it may be you who is missing the point?
It was the way we failed to compete yesterday that has upset a lot of the fans. I would go as far as to say that if the team had put in the effort and still been beaten then there would not have been half as much acrimony. Moyes persists in playing 4-5-1 when all and sundry have sussed this out, They change it round, the better teams, and do not rely on the same old formation time and again.

It became clear to me that Moyes was hoping to nick a point yesterday and as for making a substition. For pities sake, how long does it take! Saha was ready to go at 1-0 and by the time he gets on it?s 2-0!!

My last point is that you do not deserve respect you EARN respect.

Nathan Blake
39   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:41:29

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Warm, very warm, Tony. Tuesday 5:00pm is crunch time!!!
Chris Tranter
40   Posted 28/09/2008 at 18:59:20

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Wow! No club on Everton?s turnover could guarantee a net transfer funds of £150M over five years, Tony, and Moyes would know that. Hang ups more likely to centre on MONEY in his pocket - betya!
Ken Masters
41   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:22:28

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More than reasonable I would have thought. That means he could sign TWO Fellainis every year!
Brian Waring
42   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:34:49

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James, you say "Liverpool are one of the best teams in Europe". Are you offering that as an excuse for yesterday's defeat? In that case then, would you say Pompey, Blackburn, Hull are some of the best teams in Europe? Yeah, thought not. Boy, some of you are now scraping the barrell for excuses.
Keith Glazzard
43   Posted 28/09/2008 at 19:54:00

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John Doolan’s post raised the question of ’legacy’. I’ve no wish to bore anyone with statistics, but these are the Everton league positions since the Premier League was founded. The first three are out of 22 clubs, the rest out of 20.

13 / 17 / 15 / 6 / 15 / 17 / 14 / 13 / 16 / 15 / 7 / 17 / 4 / 11 / 6 / 5 /.

Only 16 years of our history, but they speak for themselves.
Neil Alecock
44   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:17:02

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The season before last, after the home match against Spurs and the infamous Tony Hibbert substitution that effectively handed Spurs the match, I remember a similar outburst from ’supporters’ on here.

Since that watershed Moyes consolidated the team and pushed on. Last season I thought in terms of goalscoring, defending and entertainment, was that best we have had in many a long year. Now though is not the time to get out the knives, we have to stay together, as there is noone and I mean noone that I would trust more than David Moyes to bring us out of this trough. He has done it before and will do it again. I think the players need to look at themselves and realise they owe their manager bigtime and they owe us everything.

Just think though that when the Nigerians invest in Newcastle we could get Joe Kinnear!
Alan Clarke
45   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:21:47

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For all those that still support Moyes, do you actually watch us play? Or do you just look out for the results? There can be no defence for him if you actually have to sit through 90 minutes of his dire tactically inept hoofball. It’s not a bandwagon Dodd, it’s just people sick to death of Moyes’ shite.

The reason the tide is turning on Moyes is because in the past a lot of people put up with the shite football because we were getting results. The problem with that is as soon as you stop getting the results what are you left with? Just shite football. Moyes has been sussed, tactically he’s useless and cannot get past this obsession with 4-5-1.

He’s also fooled if he thinks he’s walking into a job at Celtic. the fans up there have him sussed too.
Stanley Ashbourne
46   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:19:01

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Ken (sorry, I meant Richard) Dodd ? are you genuine, or are you just taking the piss, with your crazy comments? Please come clean.
Alec Laurie
47   Posted 28/09/2008 at 20:59:45

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The fact that Moyes is banging on about the 100mil spent across the park says a lot for me... He?s not signed his contract because he?s no faith in the board to provide the funds. He?s using that as an excuse, when we all know he?s well past his sell by date in this role.

I agree with Brian Noble - he wouldn?t spend the money wisely if he had it... He?s still a ditherer.

Moyes - stop blaming your tools mate, and if you?re not happy with your current employer, then fuck off. Simple.
Mike Oates
48   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:13:24

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Anthony Hughes - come back into the real world today and stop dwelling on what happened 20 years ago with Kendall and 13 years ago with Royle. Life and football is different today - we spent big monies in the past era, Moyes has had to live on scraps - and if you read Keith Glazzard reply it shows what Moyes has done on peanuts.
Alan Clarke
49   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:36:36

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Has anyone noticed how Moyes is only talking about the sending off, not the performance, smoke screen being thrown up I think. How can he say we were shit whilst asking for £17 mil for a 5-year deal? He is on shakey ground now, we all know he will not get the deal he wants if we go out on Thursday and therefore won't give a shit about us, its all going to kick off even more...
Tony Blair
50   Posted 28/09/2008 at 21:51:47

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I have it on good source that Kevin Keegan was seen around Goodison tonight!!!!
Brian Garside
51   Posted 28/09/2008 at 22:16:49

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Sorry Mr Blair but that was Alan Irvine.
Greg Blake
52   Posted 29/09/2008 at 00:00:25

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A lot of fans are off on one about our negative style of play and Moyes lack of tactical nouse.

Moyes is no great tactician. What he is is a fantastic motivator. He is struggling with that at the moment and that’s why we are so poor both in execution and results.

I don’t think he has made his job any easier (with the players) by publicly admitting he has let them all down. He’s given them the perfect excuse to switch off. I should think its no easy task to galvanise them after all that has happened. He has said many times that the team spirit he has engendered relies on him improving the squad appropriately to allow them to kick on. He has failed to do that adequately this year and is now bearing the consequences as are all of us in the dire performances we are watching.

I say it needs time. But I just hope dM has not already given up. Going out of Europe Thursday could be the end for him.
James Marshall
53   Posted 29/09/2008 at 13:40:36

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OK look, no matter what anyone says on here, someone else will always come back with a better answer because thats the nature of Internet forums - we all make valid points but we’re all guilty of trying to outdo each other by having the most valid ones.

I agree with alot of you, but I still think the RS are way better than us and my opint was that we’d struggle to compete with them or any other top European team - the trouble is, when we lose the derby, its so emotive to everyone that we all lose our heads and call for DM’s on a platter.

Do you really think we’d be better off sacking him? Are we Newcastle? Jesus, a bad start means our team and our manager need our support more than ever - I hate the way people just cave in, blame the manager and expect things to change.

Personally I prefer to think of all the good things he’s done for us, and I DO think he’ll turn it round. Call it blind faith if you want to, but I support the team through thick & thin and NEVER berate any of them (apart from during games when they pass to the opposition!).

I like Moyes, he’s an honest fella working with a group of just above average players and he gets the best out of them most of the time - this season is tough in part due to the lack of decent pre-season, and the loss of some players (Carsley mainly). If you couple that with the uncertainty we suffered all summer which has clearly affected the club as a whole and you find yourself with a bunch of people lacking confidence - a few wins and we’ll be away, especially if we can get past Liege.

PS I doubt we’ll get past Liege ;)
James Marshall
54   Posted 29/09/2008 at 14:00:50

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Oh this is for Tony Marsh and Brian Waring - I think it about sums up the way you feel!

http://www.guardianbookshop.co.uk/BerteShopWeb/viewProduct.do?ISBN=9781899807710
Brian Wolf
55   Posted 29/09/2008 at 08:25:42

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There is only one man to blame for our poor start to the season and that is our manager David Moyes. His insistence not to tie himself down to the club by signing a new contract is having an affect on the team as a whole. The whole situation is unsettling the team, the fans and letting the media run away with all sorts of stories about a Toon takeover and Moyes being installed as manager. Until Moyesy signs a new contract I predict that the team will remain unsettled and results will continue in the same vein.

On a different note I find it strange that the likes of Man City and Newcastle continually find investors and despite our Blue Bill looking 24-7 for investment we never seem to be on anyones radar, hmmm.....

Mike Lawless
56   Posted 29/09/2008 at 15:24:52

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The Independant article featured on Toffeeweb's leader page seems to bear out the belief that David Moyes has been holding out for £4M a year in his new contract. Now I see that he`s prepared to limit to four years but I can`t help saying that the club would be totally crazy to pay that sort of money for such an average, uninspiring manager. Indeed, I would think the same if they managed to get hold of bloody Mourinho! On Saturday, a rumour swept the lounges that the contract had already been signed and even before the team's disastous display, I didn't hear a single person rejoicing. Tempers were so high after the game that I think Blue Bill would have got a lynched had he confirmed it.

So here's hoping there's time for a change of heart. £4 Million a year, Davey? You are surely taking the piss!

Jay Smith
57   Posted 30/09/2008 at 10:26:37

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With a few papers today stating that Blue Bill has been having talks about potential takeovers, does anybody think that Moyes' faliure to sign his contract is down to this? Moyes has stated that his contract is in the clubs hands at the minute, which could mean that Bill could have more important things on his agenda. Also Moyes would probably want to see what plans a new owner had for the club before he signs and also get a better deal personally if a richer man was to takeover. Just a thought.

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