The Mail Bag
The moment, the man, contracts and legacies
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It hasn't attracted much comment but for me the defining moment yesterday came immediately after the first RS goal. I looked across to our dugout and really wanted to see Saha on the touchline ready to come on before the restart ? plan A (defend and hope) was dead and time to move on to plan B. I should have known better ? Moyes takes an age to get any sub on and in his mind he was obviously still thinking about plan A. 2 minutes later and bang the game is over and on trots Saha ? Moyes will never never learn and will never never change and that little cameo sums him up.
In relation to his contract it would now be commercial suicide and lunacy for the club to commit up to £17m at a time when they may need to sack him within weeks. Moyes has played hard ball over the contract for months and has massively over played his hand. It is now time for the club to play hard ball and tell him that they will review the situation in January and may leave the final decision until the end of the season. Trust me this job is the biggest that Moyes will ever get (the joke league in Scotland aside) and he has no cards left to play.
When he does go (and I think it will be sooner rather than later) what legacy will he leave behind? The truth is that his only tangible legacy will be that his sucessor faces a better situation than he inherited. He won't leave any trophies, he won't leave a settled and attractive style of play and he won,t have improved the public perception of us as club which plays football in the right way.
Why do some people find it so hard to accept that everything has its time and Moyes's time is coming to an end? Don't drag it out Kenwright ? for once, don't bullshit, do the right thing and end it it in a quick and clean manner.
John Doolan, Posted 28/09/2008 at 11:05:53
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Moyes needs to go sooner than later as this season is already over. The only points we have taken so far this season have been off the 3 newly promoted sides. God only knows what happens now when we start playing the big guns.
COYB
We need a new direction in the form of a benefactor and a new, proven manager. Unfortunately I think all we will get is BK’s 24/7 shite and Sam Allardyce!
However, this thread hits it exactly on the head. How many times have we been sitting here thousands of miles away screaming for something to happen when its absolutely fucking OBVIOUS where the team selection has gone awry.
Fair comment about making the switch after the shite’s first goal, but for me the change should have been made at HALF TIME for Chrissakes. Why are our substitutions ALWAYS reactive? Why do we always wait until a goal down before doing anything? Or fuck about for another couple of minutes and then go 2 down and game over.
Someone said they thought Hibbert did well in the first half.... well I think he stunk the gaff out and gave Riera and Keane the freedom of that side of the pitch. Luckily they are both crap and didn’t take advantage.
My heart bled for the Yak..... 25 yards ahead of everyone else, and so the game was crying out for more upfront.
Fellaini was so far off the pace it wasn’t funny. OK, take all the factors into account.... young... doesn’t speak the lingo etc etc..... but that doesn’t excuse being 6’5" and not able to jump for a ball. He was struggling - obviously - so make a fucking change!!!!
Saha and Castillo on at half-time for Hibbo & Fellaini. Neville to right back. That’s what I was bellowing for..... we may not have won, but we may just have at least interrupted Reina filing his nails for 90 minutes. BUT we will never know, will we?
And as for Red Mike?...... Don’t get me started.
Rant over
Everton are treading water financially in the Premier League. The likes of Portsmouth, Man City, Aston Villa and probably Newcastle soon are racing ahead, but under Moyes, as has been proved, we are a stable club capable of overcoming the huge financial gap.
The side at the moment is undermined by players carrying injuries or getting back to fitness, or new players finding their feet. Form will return there is no doubt. You only have to look at our league placings since we were relegation candidates every year to see that over a season it improves.
If we change the manager, all this progress goes out of the window. Best players will be sold to raise cash and that's a huge gamble.
They say that you set your stall out in matches and ours is laughable, defend, defend then hoof and then defend a bit more and the thing is we can not defend anyway. What we want is consistency and attractive football not route one shite with one man up front. I for one am sick of seeing it and am not relishing my trip to Belgium, I cling on to the faint hope that the team will wake up and deliver. Then again I do support Everton so you never know what will happen.
New contract for Moyes, I say NO you had your chance and maybe it is a blessing in disguise, you have pissed us about enough and created uncertainty. Remind us what we have won or are we all happy with our consistent inconsistency. Sort the mess out and then let?s talk, otherwise go somewhere else and preach your negative shite tactics.
The manager will also have to sell in January to give us enough monies to pay staff wages Jan-July.
There is also a salary cap of £40k per week ? under no circumstanes will that be broken. The new manager will have to be a world class manager capable of attracting CL standard players who will take wage cut.
For goodness sake get real. Perhaps you?ll all want Howard or Joe back. Next thing you?ll be as bad as the Barcodes and insist that only scousers apply.
OK, so we?re all disappointed that Davey has taken a while to chew over the small print of the proferred new contract but that?s no reason to turn on the man who has done so much for our club and is only taking care to safeguard his future in its service. In any case, his present agreement doesn?t expire until next February, for crissake!
As far as his expertise in the transfer market is concerned, his record is on par, if not better than any of his ?second tier? colleagues and if he looks a little enviously on what that man across the park has been given to spend, don?t we all?
So instead of sounding off and holding the man responsible for everything short of the outbreak of the Second World War, let?s cut him some slack, shall we? After all, he?s a bit pre-occupied at the moment preparing for a game on Thursday.
Given that Moyes appears to have given up, maybe we should bite the bullet & appoint someone who can re-invigorate the squad. I take on board what you say about managers & money but given the size of the contract offered to Moyes I?m sure someone proven could be tempted. Many foriegn managers are on poor money by comparison to the EPL eg Slaven Bilic is on approx £60k a year, so I?m sure we could afford to attract someone talented.
I?m certainly NOT the former & don?t see how I can be the latter as the start to the season has proved what I?ve been saying ALL summer would happen.
Go back and read your posts of the last six months you?ve been proved wrong time after time after time. Trouble with you is you don?t have the humility or honesty to admit it.
FOOTBALL ILLITERATE is it, then YOU must be looking in the mirror.
Strange how Hull didn't let that affect them on Saturday ? after going a goal down too. So it is possible then... if you know what you?re doing!
On a corner that we had yesterday, Liverpool had every player of theirs defending in their own penalty box, so what do we do? Have 4 of our players well outside the box! Why? 4 players defending against nobody, and to make things even worse, we then didnt even win the ball outside the box when it was inevitably headed away, because our players were too far back!
We bottled it yesterday, I would sooner have seen us play like we have all season so far and defend badly but at least look like we are going to score at the other end!
When will the penny drop with Moyes that Lescott and Arteta are fed up with being played out of position. They were happy to help out initially but are now going through the motions, nothing else. Andy Johnson admitted he didn?t like getting played wide right and didn?t like the long ball. He joined the long list of strikers who have suffered the same fate i.e.: Rooney, Radzinski, Bent, Beattie, Vaughan and even more recently poor Victor has been asked to play wide right. Moyes will even ask the young Rodwell, a centre back, to play wide right.
The man is reckless and we wonder why we look a shambles. And when it comes to tactics and substitutions the guy is so inept.
Can you please tell us what second tier managers he has faired better than? I don?t care about other teams or the shite across the park, I only support Everton and will no matter what happens.
If we get beat on Thursday will you say, cut him some slack because he is preparing for the game on Saturday. How did he prepare for Blackburn and after that load of shite, how did he prepare for the Derby need I go on.
Before blaming us band-wagon jumpers for everything from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars cut us some slack as we have a game to travel to on Thursday. Get the message Doddy?
I think people reading this thread should appreciate what Richard Dodd has written above before posting a comment.
I believe the season has not yet started for us. Taking injuries, internationals and getting new faces in late on in the transfer window into account I believe the team has the potential to get better sooner rather than later. I posted in another thread on Friday; patience is needed.
Lets also compare our situation to that of a Newcastle or Spurs fan. Spurs spent upwards of £70 million in the summer and have 2 points from 18. I have spoken to Spurs fans who considered Ramos as some kind of managerial god, but now are having second thoughts. Newcastle are a farce of a club and will hopefully get relegated. Lets not make similar mistakes or have Everton end up in a similar state.
I hope DM signs his contract. I know our season will get better, and I believe we can win on Thursday. Lets all "calm down" (sorry) and support the players and manager not turn on them like Newcastle and Spurs fans. We are better than that!
I am not an eternal optimist. I am a realist. If we are still in the shit at Christmas my tune may have changed......!
How much longer will the decent majority of Evertonians have to put up with the moronic song about the paternity of Steven Gerrard?s baby and the utterly grotesque "murderers" chant?
Perhaps you can help him out by reading my last thread before you comment or maybe answer the questions that I posed on his behalf.
Well I?ve got some bad news for you fella, the season started for everyone in August.
As I can?t see three worse teams than us let?s just hope its not over by Easter!
As for teams worse than us - Stoke, Newcastle, Sunderland, Bolton, WBA, maybe Wigan, maybe Spurs if their slump continues. Hulls great start will almost certainly fade.
Let's face it, some people are more positive than others.
Phil, I don?t think you understood my question in response to Richard's. Do you know what, I couldn?t be arsed arguing now so don?t worry about it. I know what I think and it seems like a lot of other people think similar.
Everton would struggle in the CL, and you have to bear this in mind when we play the English top 4 because they are ALL, established CL teams.
Moyes out, my arse, he?s the best manager we?ve had in years and I for one will never turn against him ? he?s done more for this club than you or I could ever do and deserves more respect.
There have been ?calm downers? on here all summer & now into the season making excuses & telling us things will be ok when players are back or settled in etc but it just doesn?t work like that. I just don?t think you can say things like ?the season hasn?t started for us yet? with the inference being it?ll be supposedly ok when the season does start for us ? whenever that will be? It doesn?t work like that because the competetion is so great & the margins between success & failure are so fine in the EPL.
A few years ago I was on holiday with an Arsenal friend of mine on the first match day of the season. At the time we we always fighting relegation & they were always 1st or 2nd. As we waited on results it struck me how desperate both of us were for points on the board even in this first game. There was NO room for poor starts or error anymore wherever you were in the prem?.
This poor start to the season has already cost us a European place & if we don?t win against the barcodes then with our next run of fixtures we are in big trouble. It's ok saying players will be back BUT others will be injured or suspended by then so on balance we will be no stronger.
As for your list of worst teams only the barcodes look more shambolic than us. West Brom are poor but I was at the our opening game & for large spells they completely outplayed us.
We needed to be ready to hit the ground running from day one (Yes ? back in August) just to stand still as the lost ground cannot be made up.
It was the way we failed to compete yesterday that has upset a lot of the fans. I would go as far as to say that if the team had put in the effort and still been beaten then there would not have been half as much acrimony. Moyes persists in playing 4-5-1 when all and sundry have sussed this out, They change it round, the better teams, and do not rely on the same old formation time and again.
It became clear to me that Moyes was hoping to nick a point yesterday and as for making a substition. For pities sake, how long does it take! Saha was ready to go at 1-0 and by the time he gets on it?s 2-0!!
My last point is that you do not deserve respect you EARN respect.
13 / 17 / 15 / 6 / 15 / 17 / 14 / 13 / 16 / 15 / 7 / 17 / 4 / 11 / 6 / 5 /.
Only 16 years of our history, but they speak for themselves.
Since that watershed Moyes consolidated the team and pushed on. Last season I thought in terms of goalscoring, defending and entertainment, was that best we have had in many a long year. Now though is not the time to get out the knives, we have to stay together, as there is noone and I mean noone that I would trust more than David Moyes to bring us out of this trough. He has done it before and will do it again. I think the players need to look at themselves and realise they owe their manager bigtime and they owe us everything.
Just think though that when the Nigerians invest in Newcastle we could get Joe Kinnear!
The reason the tide is turning on Moyes is because in the past a lot of people put up with the shite football because we were getting results. The problem with that is as soon as you stop getting the results what are you left with? Just shite football. Moyes has been sussed, tactically he’s useless and cannot get past this obsession with 4-5-1.
He’s also fooled if he thinks he’s walking into a job at Celtic. the fans up there have him sussed too.
I agree with Brian Noble - he wouldn?t spend the money wisely if he had it... He?s still a ditherer.
Moyes - stop blaming your tools mate, and if you?re not happy with your current employer, then fuck off. Simple.
Moyes is no great tactician. What he is is a fantastic motivator. He is struggling with that at the moment and that’s why we are so poor both in execution and results.
I don’t think he has made his job any easier (with the players) by publicly admitting he has let them all down. He’s given them the perfect excuse to switch off. I should think its no easy task to galvanise them after all that has happened. He has said many times that the team spirit he has engendered relies on him improving the squad appropriately to allow them to kick on. He has failed to do that adequately this year and is now bearing the consequences as are all of us in the dire performances we are watching.
I say it needs time. But I just hope dM has not already given up. Going out of Europe Thursday could be the end for him.
I agree with alot of you, but I still think the RS are way better than us and my opint was that we’d struggle to compete with them or any other top European team - the trouble is, when we lose the derby, its so emotive to everyone that we all lose our heads and call for DM’s on a platter.
Do you really think we’d be better off sacking him? Are we Newcastle? Jesus, a bad start means our team and our manager need our support more than ever - I hate the way people just cave in, blame the manager and expect things to change.
Personally I prefer to think of all the good things he’s done for us, and I DO think he’ll turn it round. Call it blind faith if you want to, but I support the team through thick & thin and NEVER berate any of them (apart from during games when they pass to the opposition!).
I like Moyes, he’s an honest fella working with a group of just above average players and he gets the best out of them most of the time - this season is tough in part due to the lack of decent pre-season, and the loss of some players (Carsley mainly). If you couple that with the uncertainty we suffered all summer which has clearly affected the club as a whole and you find yourself with a bunch of people lacking confidence - a few wins and we’ll be away, especially if we can get past Liege.
PS I doubt we’ll get past Liege ;)
http://www.guardianbookshop.co.uk/BerteShopWeb/viewProduct.do?ISBN=9781899807710
On a different note I find it strange that the likes of Man City and Newcastle continually find investors and despite our Blue Bill looking 24-7 for investment we never seem to be on anyones radar, hmmm.....
So here's hoping there's time for a change of heart. £4 Million a year, Davey? You are surely taking the piss!


1 Posted 28/09/2008 at 12:57:07
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There's a growing feeling amongst Evertonians that Davey was a man of his time and that his time has now past. There seemed to be more angst among supporters yesterday that he might actually sign that bloody contract than he wouldn`t. Certainly more than a few of us would not be confident of his judgement in the market or his ability to get the best from mega stars ? however much they cost.
Well, Davey has set the hare running ? "Come up with the money," he seems to be saying, "otherwise we shouldn't be on the same pitch as that lot over the park." But is it really that simple? Would a massive cash injection make you automatically believe that Moyes could see us challenging them for honours at home and abroad? Personally, I don't. I think I might want to keep about £17M of it back to get us a more enlightened manager!