Before you unfairly write off Fellini after only a handful of games, what about those other two overrated clowns in midfield Osman and Arteta who for 5 years haven’t done a tap against the top teams. They are clealy too slow, too lightweight and much too inconsistent to enable us to ever compete at the higher level.

Totally agree with Osman being shite... he wouldnt get into any other top ten prem team... I like Arteta but keep trying to imagine him in a good side!!!

I think the price tag on Fellaini is £5 mill tops as Chelski got Deco for £8 mill and who would you want running your midfield. Moyes has had some fair buys but majority have been crap as Moyes struggles to manage top class footballers because of his limitations in the people skills department.

On Fernandes I think we could have picked him up for between £6-8 mill and bought a wide player and defence cover for the money wasted on Fellaini. My blood is still blue so please Saha stay fit you could saves us our only hope.COYB!!!!!!

I query buying any midfielders when the gameplan used bypasses them completely. May as well have spent the money on a few more centre backs and another striker and played a 7-0-3 formation. I?m sure if, at some point, the ball comes to Fellaini on the ground he will be able to show some form. Hopefully £15 million worth of form.

I think Gary is right to compare him to Deco in terms of value. Is Fellaini twice the player Deco is, he certainly was nearly twice the price?

Not really sure how much of a difference Pienaar will make.

He’s a bit like Ossie in that he can fade out of a game when the going gets tough.

The key to all that is going wrong at Everton at the moment is the uncertainty over Moyes’ contract and future.

Fellaini was probably our third choice midfield signing and was bought within an hour or two of the transfer deadline. A desperation signing.

It’s the Managers’ job to instill confidence and belief in the team, but Moyes is not doing this at the mement.

It appears that he has stipulated a number of contractual requirements (linked to his ambitions for the club) that the current Everton board cannot meet, thus placing the club in limbo.

It also appears that the club and manager and miles apart in this contract issue. Moyes wanting assurances that serious transfer funds will be available to enable him to compete at the top level rather than piss around all summer only to make more last minute desperation signings.

A possible new ground could also be one of the issues. Fucking hell.... Stoke, Derby, Wolves, Southampton, Huddersfield, Darlington, etc, etc, etc all have new grounds.


The club appear to be unable to provide the assurances Moyes seeks to gain.

Therefore, while this situation remains, the club drifts along in limbo. By Friday morning we could most probably be out of the UEFA cup, Carling Cup and three consecutive homes defeats.

If the club cannot resolve this contractual issue very soon, then maybe it’s time to let Moysey go, rather than let the team’s confidence plummet futher while this hangs over us.

If we go out Thursday I think he’ll be gone within a week.

I hope not, but I don’t his contractual demands drag the club back to where it was before he came in.

If the club cannot match his ambitions at the moment then we have to accept this.

Steve - Osman and Arteta clowns? Really? Despite a lack of stature and pace Osman (along with Arteta) is our most "natural" footballer. Arteta does fail to stamp himself on the biggest games but I think Ossie always gives it 100% (remember the game against Fiorentina at Goodison).
The jury is out of Fellaini - although please give him some time - even the best players such as Kendall took a good while to settle in and prove their worth (and - no - I am not saying Fellaini will be as good as Kendall!).

Deco is 31 - a great player but at that age injuries will begin to bite (indeed he was injued in the warm up last week) and he will have zilch sell-on value. With Fellaini you are buying a player with 10 (hopefully) top level years ahead of him and a decent sell on value.

I think that Ozzie does try very hard in games but even though I like Arteta - he doesnt seem to be able to deliver when it really matters, which is disappointing as I want him to excel. As for Fellaini - ist too early to judge him. What worries me is that we cannot compete with the top 4 teams ? cannot even get close to them... I've been a Everton fan for 15 years and this team under Moyes has done the most... but I really feel that a GOLDEN opportunity was lost in the summer to strengthen in pre-season... I'm afraid I see us mid-table this season if it continues like this...

Came into the office to find my work station adorned with black ribbon and Moyes RIP messages.(I suspect it was not all the doing of the black side, either!) No doubt other believers have suffered a similar fate!

So, how to be positive amongst so much doom and gloom? My own take on things is that this could well be the week we have waited for. Thursday gives Davey and the boys an ideal opportunity to repair the damage of our early season and bring back a result from Liege. The shackles ? so necessary for the Derby game ? will be off and although we must be patient, I am sure we can get the two goals to make it a tie to remember.

Sometimes the Lord is good and to have sent us the pathetic mess that is Newcastle at this time is to me a sign that he?s an Evertonian. Next Saturday will see our season kick-off properly ? Fellaini showed all the signs of coming to terms with his task as our MotM in the Derby ? and all the leaks from Goodison have Davey signing his contract before the game.

Let?s not forget we?ve had a few months like September over the last six years but ?our man? has always turned the tide and the team have come back stronger for the experience. This will be a week to relish ? believe me!

I’m looking forward to your offering on Friday morning Richard where you’ll provide more excuses for our great chairman and great manager.

I thought we were too cautious at the weekend. We played for a draw and deservedly got beat. Saha had shown enough in previous appearances to have warranted a starting berth in a 4-4-2. I lost count of the number of times we played a ball into the area and there were one or two blues in the box. You don't win games like that.

As regards Fellaini, I can?t believe that people are slagging him off so quickly. He's 20 years old, doesn?t speak english and is trying to find his place in a new team that is really struggling for form. Is it any wonder he looks lost?

Personally I would have taken Fernandes at £8M or £10M over the £15M we paid for Fellaini (I do think we paid over the odds), but comparisons with Deco just don't wash, given the comparative ages and salaries. I?d guess that Deco+salary is more expensive than Fellaini+salary.... and that's before we consider sell on value and the fact that Deco has probably already past his best.

I think Fellaini has shown enough glimpses of talent in the last few weeks to indicate that he is more of an all-round midfielder than many people will give him credit for. Question is, will Moyes and the rest of the Everton players give him a chance to develop those skills, or will he be sat in the middle of the park with a stiff neck from watching all the long balls whiz from our back 4 to Yak.

Osman is not food enough for a team trying to break into the top 4. Yes gifted footballer but time and time again pushed of the ball. Said it before Felliani is the best player on the pitch with Arteta, He looks shit because he is surrounded by shit.

Midfield is were we are going wrong this has been the main issue for years under Moyes and the biggest reason its an issue is the defenders on his instruction bypass it with there hoofball tactics.

Watch any top 4 team in Europe and see how football has evolved, play starts from back to front utilizing the midfield. Even the craps teams abroad play on the deck footy, thats why most of the crap teams beat are good teams.

Answer is get rid of Moyes and get someone in and there are plenty that would come for the money on offer and start again before hoofball probably just saves us from the drop.

Poor Fellaini.

Bought last minute after being a key part in a successful Liege Team.

He's whisked to the UK straight to Liverpool, he doesn't speak the language, doesn't know his team mates names, never mind how they play or the team system, he's not used to the prem league style of play, he has no family of friends over here.

Give the guy a break.

He's been solid but not spectacular. He needs at least till Xmas to find his feet.

At £15M he may be overpriced but we are also paying for the potential player he is likely to become. If he happens to turn into a Roy Keane, Patrick Viera type of midfield force we?ll all be very happy.

Let's put Manuel Fernandes to bed now. He had two spells at Goodison and Moyes obviously thought that he wasn?t gonna get the job done. Sure he had flashes of magic but 90% of his time was spent spraying loose passes, not tracking back, being lazy and looking like he didn't give a fuck.

His attitude during his second spell is what cost him a move.

Richard.
What if we get beaten by both them teams? Will you still make the pathetic excuses as you have done all year?
I remember you telling me that 5 players where imminent befor the transfer deadline... Still waiting.

I for one would be more than happy to see things turn around. Let?s start by sacking the manager and chairman.

Moyes didn?t like Manny, end of.

Guys, it seems a little pointless to compare Fellaini to Deco. Deco was "only" £8m because he is over 30 and was near the end of his contract. Yes he is a proven player and brilliant, that is why he went to Chelsea. Why compare in transfer value when he would have got a bigger signing on fee (that would have significantly been more than what we paid to Fellaini) and will be on far higher wages. So in terms of the cost of the player during his time at both clubs, it wouldn’t be much different.

Whilst I agree at the moment that he doesn’t look worth £15m at the moment (Arteta was dodgy in his first few games), as Rob says we were buying what Liege was felt to be their star player, and with his age, a potentially high selling on value. This is a market where Keane is worth £20m and Andy Johnson £11m.

Ferandes on the other hand just didn’t cut it last year, and whilst he scored a blinder against Man U two seasons ago, I saw little since to justify the initial price of £12m or whatever it was 12 months go. Sure it went down but there was a reason for that, his value dropped as he wasn’t as great as everyone was making out! Valencia got stung.

I agree that Osman is the most naturally gifted footballer, but he doesn’t have the pace or the strength. He does score important goals though.

This start to the season has been all the more disappointing as for the first time in a while, I saw the team play with a style and swagger that was great to watch. The defence was solid, the midfield functioned well, and Yak banged in the goals, mostly with good passing moves.

This year we haven’t pushed on, and my expectations have changed. I hope that we beat Liege on Thursday (side note: what benefit did we get from our 5th finish and strong run in the UEFA cup last year when we get drawn against one of the strongest sides in the competition??), but am not confident. And whereas I thought we could do 5/6 again, I think top 10 would be good.

Things need to improve though, and Moyes needs to show his worth, especially regarding the new contract. He can do it, and I hope he will. At the moment though, he, like the team, are underperforming.

Lescott and Osman have got to be dropped on Thursday and Saha must start. Howard, Neville, Yobo, Jagielka, Valente, Baines, Cahill, Castillo, Arteta, Yakubu, Saha. If Mr Moyes thinks we can go to Liege and play that depressingly negative 4-5-1 and get a result well he might as well leave, that shite we witnessed on Saturday was as bad as anything Wally Smith dished up. Its a big ask on Thursday but he's got to put a team out thats capable of playing attacking football.

Surely he can get the message across to the defence not to leave Yobo in a position were he is expected to distribute the ball, we know he can?t. The off the ball movement right across the team is diabolical, at this level there should always be a passing option available when we have possession but as we?ve seen lately the ball out from the back is just a speculative lob (so much for the much hyped Steve Round).

It's shit or bust on Thursday as far as I?m concerned and could be the defining moment in DMs future at our Club. Why a Chairman would allow a manager, who hasn't committed his future to the club, to speculate £15million on a player is beyond me. The right team and a bit of luck will see us past Liege, let's have some passion, please, Davey and Squad.

Yes ’Davey’, pleae mate, use your ’amazing’ managerial skills to guide us through on Thursday, and then.............fuck off, you longball loser!!!!!

School of science? Alan Ball must be turning in his grave.

I agree with most of David?s comments ? the comparison between Deco and Fellaini as he says is a bit unfair. Personally I felt a degree of sympathy for Fellaini on Saturday ? he was given a yellow card very early in the game ? something like 15 minutes ? that clearly affected his game as he had to be careful with any further challenges.

I am not a "Moyes basher" as some of the people who post replies on the site appear to be. However, I have to say my heart sank a bit when I saw our team line up and formation. I would have liked to see us have Saha on from the start ? he may not be match fit yet ? but how can he get fully fit if he doesn?t get to play in the games?

Saha gave us a brief glimpse of what he can do with that shot near the end. He clearly has the skill and the pace ? as has Vaughan ? to have Liverpool?s defence some problems. Yakubu was clearly isolated as the lone striker. Feed the Yak and he will score ? it was clearly a case of feeding him scraps in the Derby match!! I sometimes think David Moyes is obsessed with 4-5-1. Sometimes in football you have to take the odd risk ? you can?t be safety first all the time.

When Standard Liege came to Goodison, they didn?t sit back they were more than prepared to counter attack. Hull City didn?t go to Arsenal with a plan of " all out attack" but they had enough attacking players in their line up to suggest that they were going to attack whenever possible.

The lad who scored that cracking goal for Hull City ? Giovanni ? if Moyes had been in charge of their team he would have most probably been on the bench his starting place given over to a defender or defensive midfielder!!

I hope that Moyes goes 4-4-2 for the match in Liege, with Castillo back. I also think he should have started on Saturday.

I think it’s way too early to start commenting on Fellaini. He’s a young player, whose just moved to a new country, playing with new teammates in a much faster paced league. That’s quite a lot for him to adjust to. Getting used to the pace of the Premier league will take some time and as the derby is often even more frantic, he can be excused his performance on Saturday.

Judge him on a whole season rather than just a few matches.

Perhaps he would have been more prepared with a full pre-season under his belt...

Think it’s pretty unfair to judge Fellaini so soon, he’s come in without training with us and the rest of the team playing poorly around him. He was voted one of the best 50 teenagers in the world last year so I’m hopeful he’ll come good. He needs a strong DM next to him, so when Castillo fully beds in, I’m sure we’ll see a lot of box to box runs from him. I’m cautiously hopeful, but agree, we sorely miss Pienaar.

I would have preferred Castillo in for Fellaini on Saturday, more energy and more of a buzz and he may have tried another shot, who knows?

As for Richard Dodd and his uber bum lick of Moyes. Could you not just have a template that you could change the names in?

Sort of after we beat (insert team?s name here) and then (insert another team?s name here) you will all go on about how I was right!

Erm, yeah ok!

Doddy, you predicted our season would kick off properly in the derby, now you predict it will be next week end. Will you just keep saying this until we actually win?

One other thing that does worry me is how fucked the players look.

Lescott looked like he was running with lead boots on most of the game.

Arteta couldnt ghost past me ?ma let alone an opposition player

And as for Gulliver with the big hair do in the middle of the park...someone give him some red bull will ya...he was ponderous to say the least.

We lack any injection of pace in all positions....

They look really unfit...

Richard Dodd wrote "I am sure we can get the two goals to make it a tie to remember".
I though we needed three goals to win the tie (or at least 2 goals and then a win on penalties after no more goals in extra time).
Richard Dodd wrote "Next Saturday will see our season kick-off properly".
Good to know that it will start sometime and that we are only giving the lesser teams a head start !! Foolish of the top six getting off to a better start than us - they’ll run out of steam by peaking too early :0)

I see where the confusion lies! Doddy is privvy to some inside information and we?re just lulling the rest of the Premier League and Europe into a false sense of security!

Typically the redshites fell for it hook, line and sinker!

Before Saturday’s game Richard Dodd wrote "As I say, as long as we get at least a draw in the derby, all we again be OK in the state of Everton."
Well that really went to plan !! Imagine the top teams in Europe thinking that we’re rubbish and then we go on to win the UEFA Cup, FA Cup and qualify for the Champions League through a top 4 finish. Which of the Sky 4 will be ousted by us this time ? My money is on Arsenal as they couldn’t even beat Hull at home and we drew with Hull so that must make us better than Arsenal :0) I’m sure that we’ll struggle through the Champions League qualifying round, just do enough to get through the group stages and then when the elite of Europe are off guard we hit them with a dazzling display of tactical genius from David Moyes and world class play from our boys........

We’re rubbish at home so at least we have that the away leg to look forward to!

I think Liege will concede goals gainst us, trouble is we might well concede even more.

I hope Saha starts with the Yak up front, and someone needs to tell the Yak to fuckign stand up and stop falling over like he’s Cristiano Ronaldo - the blokes strong as an ox I just wish he’d stay strong.

Castill should play again on Thursday too - his game is well suited to Europe.

Richard Dodd, they allow you to have a work station in the looney bin? when are you going to take off your rose tinted specs? after each result you come on here saying that this week will be our week. This is the time when Moyes and Bill show their true colours. Next Saturday will see our season kick-off properly. Will this be the mantra come next season when we start in the Championship?

I Like Moyes I realy do he seems honest and trustworthy. He has his limitations but so do most people and I still cant think of another manager who would do a better job at our proud club. Bill is another matter entirely he cant lay in bed straight he is so bent the bloke is full of shit and sound bites and the sooner we are TRUELY put up for sale the better as I have said before we need a clever business man to take over with a LONG TERM goal.

Oh, as I have gone WELL off topic, Fellaini. £15m is on the showings in blue WAY too much money but on this I am prepaired to hold my judgement he is young has come to a new, better and faster league and by all accounts he is better than he has shown for us thus far. I?m sure he will come good £15 million good I don?t know but hang off hanging him just yet. Manny was not raved about straight out of the tin either!

I’d have preffered Manny without a doubt to be honest but we all know that didn’t happen. Fellaini is here and I do believe he is a good player, not a 15 million pound player by any means but hopefully he can develop into one. He is only 20 afterall, lots of development left and lots of experience to gain.

As for Arteta and Osman being overrated clowns, what a joke. Another ridiculous comment from Steve Ryan.

Richard Dodd,

Man, you must be a frustrated civil-servant or something.
And why Arteta plays not to his best in the big games? Because Moyes’s shite tactics won’t let him!

Richard Harris

Unless I missed something rather suspect, then I believe we drew 2-2 at home. That would surely mean that with our first clean sheet( yes Mr Howard will play a blinder) that 1 goal will win it for us. You know that boring scoreline that will come from Mr Moyes playing his favourite 4-5-1 until the boys get it right at which point we will suddenly see a miracle.

Osman is a boy in a mans game, he spends more time on the floor. Arteta delivers 1 in 4 decent cross and Yobo cant play football.

Bilbo Baggins, do we actually have any good player or are they all shite?

Anthony Jaras.
You my friend have put into a short phrase what i could not say in a novel.
Spectacularly to the point and soooooooooo the way i am feeling.

Doesnt anyone think that the problem in our defence is beacsue of yobo. He aint playen well recently. I dont thik he shud start against Standard Liegue

If I read one more post questioning the Fellaini deal I think I’ll scream. Frankly to question the deal at this stage is utter bullocks. He was one of the few to come out with any credit from the weekends debacle. Some even go as far as to question the fact that he cannot speak English. Well I witnessed something Fellaini did in the game that I’ve not seen a single player in the squad dare do. He conveyed his feelings in what can be best described as the universal language of football. Facing his own defenders he pointed to the ground in a desperate plea. Putting it into words I think he might have been saying ’keep it down and play it to feet FFS!’

Its only taken him a few games to work out something its taken Moyes and half the squad 5yrs to figure out and its still a work in progress. Given that it was our failure to do just that that cost us the game I’d say not only have we got a decent player there but also one who is prepared to challenge the negative mindset that is rampant throughout the squad. I sincerely hope the lad isn’t driven out of the squad by those who are only to willing toscrape a point at any cost. I only wish we had a few more like him.

I think that Moyes has to defo play two upfront on Thursday and leave Yobo out and play Lescott in his natural posistion.

Drop Neville and Yobo and play Hibbert and Baines, but we all now the captain cant be dropped. At least Hibbert can tackle and knows how to defend.

I am not out to single out any scapegoats; what happened on Saturday was a collective error. I am still left wondering though: why on earth did he play Neville in the midfield instead of Castillo?

Dean Adams wrote "Unless I missed something rather suspect, then I believe we drew 2-2 at home. That would surely mean that with our first clean sheet( yes Mr Howard will play a blinder) that 1 goal will win it for us. You know that boring scoreline that will come from Mr Moyes playing his favourite 4-5-1 until the boys get it right at which point we will suddenly see a miracle".
Thanks for that Dean !! Must have been the trauma of Saturday and the substance abuse to dull the pain that took me back to primary school maths :0) I’ll be praying for a clean sheet and then a wonder goal that is a real team effort to seal the victory..