For all the talk, post-derby, of the sack for David Moyes, I have a growing suspicion that the contract is already signed and the Club are just waiting for a good result to hang it on.

Certainly, some of the press corps had been led to expect the news if things had gone well against Liverpool and such is the general antipathy towards Everton`s Media Team that one or two were suggesting they would run with that as the story some time this week anyway!

But we may have to wait for the UEFA result or even that against Newcastle — for certain if we don`t get a result against them, even Kenwright will be worrying if he`s done the right thing!

Or Dan
We are 3 pts above relegation
We are out of the Carling cup
We have one foot out of the eufa cup
We have lost all our home games
We have shipped 16 goals
We are next up against a team who have lost 4 on the bounce, don’t understand what your point is there?
Moyes still hasn’t signed his contract yet
I don’t give a fuck about Spurs
We have no money
We do play hoofball, and no-one can deny that.
See Dan, no matter how much of a pretty picture you try to paint, it can always be countered with everything that is bad at the moment.

Dan. Finally: a rational Evertonian speaks.

Brian, sometimes I wonder how people with your outlook on life drag themselves out of bed in the morning. What a glass half empty outlook you have. Dan and Bill, I’m with you. It might not be the start we had imagined but do we ever do things the easy way? COYB

Bill (and Dan), I think Brian Waring’s bullet points are more relevant to the present situation. But we’ll keep up hoping hey?

Dan you are not the only rational Evertonian out there. The majority have their moans and rightly so as we pay our money, but Moyes is the right man and most people know it. Other clubs outside the sky 4 would be made up if Moyes went to them.

In my opinion, most people that either write on websites or ring phone-ins to local radio have an extreme view that doesn't reflect the majority of us that want Moyes to sign his contract and take his fine team on.

The thought of him leaving sends more shivers down my spine than any Derby defeat could ever do!

Its the way we play - that is from the manager nobody else. Can you honestly say we play "FOOTBALL", all we do is make two passes (to our own players (and that is being generous!)), then "HOOF the ball in any direction (hopefully within 50 metres) of the Yak... If you're happy with that then your in the minority, most supporters want to see passages of play and be entertained.

He?s given us stability, but he?s had decent money to spend on half decent players ? the end result is "shit" negative football. Let Glen Hoddle have a chance, what have we got to lose? We have not won anything since he became manager, and judging from this season's displays, we never will! If we are not going to win anything soon, then surely trying to play entertaining (try and keep the ball for more than 2 passes) football is a minimum requirment!

Look lads I’m just proving, that no matter how much you try and dress the start of the season up, it’s been a calamity. Now if you lads want to see things with your blue tinted specs on, then thats okay with me. But, we have been shit since the Fioritina game last season, and that is a hell of a lot of games. Also, give it a rest with the " I’m embarrassed to be an Everton fan " shite, because at the end of the day I have the right to my opinion. It’s no wonder that BK and Moyes get away with murder, when we have pussies like you lot above.

Well fucking said ! About time someone got real and had a bit of positivity also i remember last season 6 games in yakubu was a waste of money but he got over 20 goals so give it time

Les, I know you probalby don’t agree with me, but thanks for pointing out, what I was trying to get across. I just widh the other lads would have realised that, instead of having a dig.
By the way, didn’t mean you as a pussy.

Sorry but the shite David Moyes churns out week after week is awfull.
We have not kept a clean sheet since derby last april. SO lets face it ,that tells me our tactics do not work , all this backs against the wall hoof it up the park. Is it just the fans who see the ball just comes straigt back.
Sometimes it gets to the hour mark and you think " have we had a shot on goal yet?" Yes he has moved us on from relegation fodderbut maybe you have to cut your losses sometimes and think this is it , lets have a change

Whatever the truth about ’the contract’ one fact cannot be overlooked ,

Everton FC has for only the third time in its history lost its opening 3 home league fixtures. The first time in 1958-59 and the other 2 occasions under DM’s watch namely 2005-06 and this season.

it is quite understandable if fans are gettng twitchy, given what happened 3 years ago.

I’m sure most fans accept losing or not winning against the top 4 clubs and probably see points taken off those clubs as a bonus.

But the problem is there are 15 other clubs in the division who we should be able to beat on a more regular basis and in a more convincing manner.

Also how many times can we accept defeat in cup competitions where we fail to perform and on those occasions when we do progress how often has it been because we have dominated proceedings.

These are the problems that DM has been unable to address for most of his tenure as manager.

His team don’t often play the game for the full 90 minutes. The team has never in his time performed for the whole season. It’s always been in fits and starts. We are as likely to have a long run without a win as we are to be unbeaten for a significant period.

Whilst the playing staff may have improved since those dark days and the league placings gotten better can you honestly say - apart from maybe mid-season last term - that we have gone into games with full confidence about Everton gaining the desired result.

I don’t know what the answers are to this problem but unfortunatley I don’t believe that DM has them either.

I have to admit that I respect David Moyes as a person and dearly wish for him to succeed but I have to agree that tactically we are not progressing. Bypassing midfield with hoofball to the front line isn’t working (did it ever?)

Moyes has got to change his mindset. Play Yak and Saha up front and try to get the midfield involved more.

The telling part of the season for me so far was against Hull when we were 2 down. Moyes made some early substitutions and the players it seems ignored all previous wisdom and went for broke. It was as if the coaching manual had been ripped up - whether Moyes ordained it or the players chose to ignore him - for 20 minutes we blitzed Hull and played some uninhibited football.

That’s what I want to see more often. Sheer hard work doesn’t necessarily work on its own any more! We’ve been found out on that score.

Dan, at last a bit of perspective. Coming on here the weekend has like being caught in the cross between an Orwellian ’hate hour’ and a Nuremberg rally - too much raw emotion and not enough cool analysis

We’ve got problems - sure. We might even need a new face at the helm... but fuck me gentlemen not one of the ’usual suspects’ has mentioned one credible alternative to Moyes as manager who would come to Everton. Not one of the ’Moyes Out’ brigade has offered any coherent analysis beyond focusing upon the Kenwright/Moyes out mantra.

Well this is the chilling bit boys - we get rid of Moyes, we’re left with the same problems from a financial perspective. We’re still going to be looking to punch above our financial weight and beginning each season effectively hamstrung with a paltry transfer kitty which gets smaller in comparison to the rest of the ’big four’ contenders let alone the elite of the Premier League

Any manager who comes after Moyes will have to work with the reality that Everton FC are a club in financial crisis; a club who are soon to be potentially alienating a large proportion of their future natural fanbase by abandoning their heritage and moving outside of the City boundries.

Chant ’Moyes out’ all you like, comfort yourselves with the delusion that our problems begin and end with the sacking of the bloke who has kept us in the Premier League and more .... you think its going to solve anything?

Things can get a whole lot worse

The next four games are probably the most important in the last 7 years of our history.

Why ? If we win them, then Moyes has a stay of execution. Lose them and he is fucked.

Liege.
Bar codes.
The Arse and Man Utd.

The reason i state 'important'. Is this. If he goes, it could destabillise the whole club and things could get even worse. Round may get the post for Christ sake !

Now I am no Moyes lover, but for the time being, better the devil you know in my opinion.

I am trying to look at this from an objective perspective as kneejerk sackings do not work. Newcastle being a prime example.

We will never win anything whilst Moyes is at the club. That i am convinced of, but we will never be relegated either. I honestly think his new contract should be torn up infront of his eyes, and a replacement should be found before he is shown the door.

But i fear whilst Bill Liar is around we will have to put up with shite for now.

Dan, this has got to be the best post I have read on this site for an awefull long time. Absolutely agree with your comments and we should get behind the team and show that we are different from plastic clubs. Fuck me we can make a difference and give the boys a lift each time they are on the park. A blue shirt gets my support every match and at the moment there are 11 men that represent us that need a boost. That is what matters to me and the result at the end of the game. Support makes a difference and it makes me happy that Evertonians are real supporters. ’
Money doesnt buy results, Alot of heart does ! We are going through a pretty rough patch at the moment but I have faith, based on the last DM six years that it is only tempory and we will bounce back. We have real quality within our ranks, they have delivered and think that the new additions also add to it. The blue tide will turn, we have ups, we have downs just like every other club in the world thats what it is like following football, therefore looking forward to matchday anxiety Thursday, next Saturday and the rest of the season shouting for our Everton.

Well said, Dan. This is exactly how I feel too and I could not have written a better article.

Many fans forget that there are very few managers better than Moyes out there. Those who complain live in an some type of magical fantasy world where Everton will somehow lure a manager who will not only make the team win every game, but win with swashbuckling style. Too much Football Manager on the pc I reckon....

I am pro Moyes, pro Kenwright and think we have one of the best squads since the mid 80’s. I have not turned against the players or manager during the recent yo yo seasons.

However i think the club is knackered. We have no cash. Moyes has not signed his deal. Fellaini would have to have been be a world beater for me not to think we could have more wisely bought 3 players for the £15m fee.

I think we’re in trouble.

Moyes has given this club stability and brought in some quality players. As a result he deserves some time to try and fix things.

Despite that you can only live in the past for so long. Results are what counts and he hasn’t been getting them. In most of our matches since Fiorentina we havn’t looked like winning and his post match comments seem to miss the point. Kenwright is not an innocent by stander in this, but at the moment Moyes is failing to work with the talent he already has.

Its a mute point anyway, if Kenwright sacked Moyes I’d be amazed.

Dan, whilst I accept your clearly expressed sentiments, I can?t agree with your positive outlook and predictions for the remainder of the season. Right at the moment, we are playing what amounts to schoolyard standard hoofball, and even then, in a disjointed and aimless way and wasting the talents of the quality players we have. My real fear is that, come the end of the season, regardless of where we finish, we will lose the truly talented players we have simply because of these mono-dimensional match tactics and strategies employed by none other than David Moyes.

Over the past weeks (in fact, months), which have been tough for all Evertonians, we have seen excuses offered for the teams poor form, ranging from the financial situation of the Club, to the proposed ground move and to David Moyes? unsigned contract. At the end of the day, when a player is on the park and facing off against the opposition, I would argue that these are the last issues that would affect his form or his approach to the match. The one thing that does affect it, and those who have played any competitive team sport will know, is the way in which the coach has prepared the team for combat. This includes selections, placements, tactics and instructions and it these things that will primarily influence the player during the match. And, based on our current performances, it appears that our players are not being prepared effectively for whatever reason or are no longer responding in a positive way.

The reality for EFC and Evertonians is that Mr Moyes has exceptionally done well to steady the rocking (some might say sinking) ship that he inherited from Walter Smith, especially given the less than satisfactory behaviour of his Chairman during that period of time, and he deserves all the plaudits he gets for this. But his time has come. As Dave Lynch has pointed out "We will never win anything whilst Moyes is at the club" and I agree, unless of course Moyes changes his whole approach

As you point out Dan, it is important to keep the faith but it is equally important for those we are keeping the faith in to give us some quantifiable hope for a better future. To use your family analogy, you can only keep the faith for certain time before reality hits and the behaviour of the person / organisation we are keeping the faith in tells us that we are wasting our time and causing ourselves unnecessary angst by continuing to keep the faith with no discernable change. This is what is known in my profession as the ?reality check? and it?s usually not a pleasant experience for those who a forced to undertake it.

We can?t let ourselves go on looking through rose (or blue) tinted glasses and being thankful to David Moyes whilst the current dysfunctional situation within the club drags on (and it has been with us since the second Fiorentina game last season) simply because, if we do, we stand a good chance of losing status, along with any quality players we have.

Mr Moyes now needs to show his players and club supporters that he is capable of change and address his obvious tactical weaknesses. His favoured 4-5-1 formation has been sussed by most other managers (as demonstrated by Benitez deploying 3 strikers against us in the derby last weekend) yet he continues to deploy it. Worse still, he simply appears incapable of developing any other system. Many of Mr Moyes? supporters have pointed out that this formation gives us flexibility and enables us to quickly push players forward and switch to all out attack when needed or when the opportunity presents itself. Unfortunately, it also plants in the players? minds a defensive mindset which then mitigates against playing attacking football. Then there is the issue of playing the ball on the park and using quick and accurate passing and movement to break other sides down ? something we haven?t been able to do under Mr Moyes? tutelage. This needs to change and quickly.

To keep up the myth that the glass is half full, as Lee Hind has done, or to criticise those who disagree with our view in virulent terms, as has Tom Hutchings in his needless attack on Brian Waring, is to resort to a form of rationalisation as a way of avoiding the reality of our situation ? that we are in serious trouble and the man charged with sorting it out doesn?t appear to have any ideas on how to extricate us from it. And, unfortunately for us, avoidance doesn?t solve problems and certainly won?t solve the raft of problems EFC and its supporters are experiencing at the present time.

And regardless of our differing views, or the way we present them, my belief is that we would not be making these comments if we didn?t care for our beloved Everton and were not concerned about its future and its health so let?s cut out the virulent attacks on others.

I do agree, that the current tactics are not working for whatever reason.

But to suggest that Moyes encourages hoofball, I would have to disagree. I simply cant see hoofball being practised in the training ground. The hoofball is mainly generated by two players, Neville and Jagielka. And I am sure they have been fully informed about how ineffective it is. We can only hope it changes, because not only is it awful to watch, it simply gives away the ball for no reason.

Regarding 4-5-1, it has been our most successful tactic over the years. Its the best tactic to fully utilise Cahill/Osman as the men to run onto loose balls. I believe once Fellaini finds his feet, he will surely improve the distribution to feed such a tactic. But right now, he seems struggling to adjust and show his influence. I am sure he will find his niche sooner rather than later.

And now we have Saha. This man gives us another option. He is a truly gifted player, with the ability to pick out attacking passes. But again, he is not 100% ready yet. So unfortunately we have to be patient.

I guess that was the inspiration for me to make the post. Just to say things are really dog wank right now, but we have the players and staff who can turn it around if you can find it somewhere in your heart to bite your lip some more, and weather the storm. I appreciate not everybody has the patience of a saint. Nor can I explain why I can show such faith and optimism in the face of adversity.

I remember watching the Mcallister free kick derby in my local boozer, where it was even numbers of blues and shite. After the match, 95% of blues went home in disgust and shame. Myself and two others stayed in the pub surrounded by shite fans lapping up their victory. We found a small corner, and spontaneously started singing ’banks of the royal blue mersey’. The shite fans obviously retaliated, but we kept singing regardless. After the fifth time of sinigng ’what a beautiful way, to spend the day, watching Bill Shankly pass away..’, a redshite fan came over and said ’why are you singing you dickheads, you fuckin lost!!!’. This was greeted with ’Kopites are gobshites’. I clearly remember the guys face, it was total shock. He really could not get his head around why we were still singing. And nor could I explain why. We just showed them that they could never break our spirit and our love for Everton, nor will they ever no matter how many times thy beat us. We will hurt inside, of course. But we will never show it to the enemy. This is what being an Evertonian is all about for me.

They must LOVE reading some of the posts on here, because all of them would love to see the end of the era that made us believe again after so much time in the wilderness. I really dont believe any other manager out there understands more about being an evertonian than Moyes. Thats why I wouldnt change him for anything right now, because I know he can right the wrongs. We shall not be moved.

If Moyes is still here at the end of the season I can promise you we will be in the bottom 10. As much as he has improved us and taken us into the top 5, He has hit a brick wall, you cant succeed playing hoofball and if God forbid we ever pay some slick on the deck footy they might find the crowd singing again and getting a full house when we need it.
Reality check is what you pro moyes supporters need. I want to see some football I dont know about you.

Dan said:

"But to suggest that Moyes encourages hoofball, I would have to disagree. I simply cant see hoofball being practised in the training ground. The hoofball is mainly generated by two players, Neville and Jagielka. And I am sure they have been fully informed about how ineffective it is. We can only hope it changes, because not only is it awful to watch, it simply gives away the ball for no reason. "

I coach a team of Under 13’s and believe you me, if two of my key players completely disregarded the instructions of the coaches and went against the whole ethos of the team, they would get fucking dropped!!

So surely this would apply to highly paid professional footballers? Do you not think that, after another shithouse of a display of hoofball, Moyes would haul the culprits over the coals and drop them, if it was contrary to instructions?

Sorry, but it beggars belief that the players go completely against instructions and just constantly welly the ball upfield and hope for the best.

Dave,

No need to apologise, you are entitled to believe what you wish. Jagielka is a great defender in my eyes, he just needs to work on his distribution. But to drop a player on the basis he whacks the ball upfield when his midfield gives him little options, is harsh. And thats before we go into who we have to replace him!

I am not sure coaching 13 year olds is something you can compare with managing a top flight professional football club. And if you are trying to say that young lads (and girls) play direct to feet football and dont whack it upfield, I would have to completely disagree. You must drop half of your team after each match!

Moyes was has been a very important manager for us over the last few years. In his time with us so far he has taken us from annual relegation fodder to mid-table safety. More recently he has taken us from mid-table safety and instilled in us a hunger for a place among the financial elite in the blessed-four.
Moyes has done well to get us where we are with the manacles he has been issued.
However, if we ever get a sugar-daddy to finance us then I would happily go to Lime Street to wave Moyes off, and I will shake his hand and thank him for his efforts. Why? Well, when a club gets enough money to improve the club it usually invests in better players. So why not invest in a better manager aswell?

Yeah... and Stoke drew with Liverpool at Anfield and Liverpool struggled, and I mean struggled, to beat Crewe in the Carling Cup and us... we couldn’t even put up a decent showing at Goodison against them

I would have to say I agree with the main points made by Dan. I think Moyes can take us to the next level, I think too many of us fall into the category of the glass being half empty rather than seeing it as being half full.
However I also have to say I wish he would not be so obsessed with 4-5-1. After about 15 minutes it was obvious to all thet Yakubu was too isolated and needed support. I told my mate that Moyes would bring Saha on for Hibbert and switch Neville to right back. If I could figure that one out then surely Benitez could!!
I was really pleased with Moyes at Hull when he didn’t wait for things to change on the pitch before he made changes - he did so at half time!! But then a week later he reverts back to the tried and trusted over cautious approach. Sometimes you have to take a risk or two - what a pity he didn’t play Saha from the start alongside Yakubu and also Castillo. Feed the Yak and he will score - not with the scraps he had on Saturday !!

Dan, yes it has been our best tactic over the past few years but we have been sussed out. It is time for a change.
I suspect it is the inability of Moyes to change that is irritating everybody and hence calling for him to go.
If you look at the posts on here there is a general consensus that Neville should not play in midfield. So what does Moyes do ? He brings in Hibbert and plays Neville in the midfield ! With Castillo on the bench for pities sake. Castillo must wonder what he has done wrong.
Nobody could possibly doubt your love for Everton and I have been following them for fifty years. However
there are some of Brians points that do warrant thought.
The next four matches may well give us some idea of how our season is going to pan out.
In an ideal world we would beat Liege and, hopefully, Newcastle. But things do not always go to plan even in an ideal world.

The volume of posts calling for Moyes' head in the wake of the derby really has astonished me. It begs the question who do you want to replace him and in light of the obvious lack of available finance who would want to replace him.

Before I get labelled a blind pro Moyes supporter, I am not. I was really disappointed to see us not change to 4-4-2 earlier and have a go. I can see why he started with 4-5-1 as he wanted to keep it tight in view of our abysmal defensive displays. However as the first half wore on there was only one team who were scoring and they were not wearing blue. Also the Yak was completley isolated and his only service was long aimless balls. The manager must take responsibility for getting it wrong.

There is no doubt Moyes can be over cautious and clearly at times allows players to simply hoof the ball forward. However I do think calling for his head is an over reaction. I mean Tony Marsh suggested big Sam would be better. I just can't agree with that.

So if people want Moyes out then they must come up with viable alternatives. I just don't see any out there. Moyes has a decent record and gets a lot more right than he gets wrong. Finding a manager of better quality is quite as easy as some people seem to think.

I've read a lot of non sense last few days, Everton are going through a difficult period early in the season and most of the Evertonians are acting like Spurs or Toon fans ? knee-jerk reactions, screaming for managers head, praising other teams or managers - 2 seasons ago it was Reading and Coppel , now its Hull and Villa - BS. The most consistent team outside Sky 4 in the last 5 seasons is Everton.

We had a difficult summer, board turmoil?s, very, very late signings due to the lack of funds, our manager hasn?t signed his contract - what do you expect, that all these factors will not have any impact on the team?

I am not at all pleased with our play or the results at the moment but the reactions here are beyond belief, there wasn?t a single player who escaped criticism, all were labelled flat-track bullies, Championship standard at best, lazy, slow. Its ridiculous.

We cant blame everything on Moyes, yes he has to share some of the blame ? his unsigned contract, the defensive approach against Liverpool but we ignore a lot of facts here, our pre-season was disrupted by injuries and threadbare squad, in the game against Chicago Fire we were able to make only one(?!?) half time subs, whereby Chicago changed their entire team. We started the season being forced to play Jag and Rodwell as our midfield pair and another 16 years old was thrown into battle. The late signings and the missing of Cahill and Pienaar didn?t helped either; we don?t have and we cant give these players time to settle but a bit of understanding wont go missed as well. After all United are just point above and they spent 50m on two players and I cant hear anyone screaming for SAF head.

Last season we went on 14 games unbeaten streak after the derby and let?s hope we can do the same this season.

I can’t believe there are people naive enough to think that our style of play does not come from the manager!!! That is exactly what he is paid for. Watch Yobo play for Nigeria-he doesn’t hoof the ball up the park.
Watch Phil Neville when he played for Man utd-he didn’t hoof the ball up the park. Watch Lescott for England , again he doesn’t hoof the ball up the park. Read Kroldrups departing interview when he stated that he disagreed with what the manager wanted him to do when in posession of the ball. He was very clear that Moyes wanted him NOT to play from the back. I think Moyes has done a great job for Everton and will always appreciate what he has done but I do not think he is the man to keep us consistently challenging the top 4 and getting into europe whilst playing decent football. He is tactically naive, makes the right substitions 10-15 minutes too late and he is shocking in the transfer market.
I love Everton but I also love football and for a while now I enjoy the football that most other premmiership teams play when compared to what we play and I am just baffled why , we can’t play a better quality of football. I dont expect us to be like Arsenal but for christ sake relentless wacking the ball from the back and hoping the opposition cocks up , is not even a mildly clever tactical plan.

Why are people moaning?
I could be wrong but I think it has something to do with the obviously fuckin’ awful football Everton are playing!