The Mail Bag
Tim, Stevie and a Thought Experiment
Comments (32)
Who in the entire world thinks that Steven Gerrard would have been sent off for Tim Cahill's challenge on Saturday?
Who, if by some 'mistake' Gerrard did get a red card, thinks that the inevitable Liverpool appeal would have been turned down like Cahill's?
Says it all I think.
Neil Pearse, Posted 30/09/2008 at 15:30:53
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Michael Kenrick
With such blatant bias, you really start to wonder just what is the point? All part and parcel of "the beautiful game"? Surely this is not what people pay good money for... is it?
Right, now that Cahill's appeal has been overturned, please could we have none of the "If that would have been one of the top 4" shite. The reason why Cahill was sent off, was because he was a total tit! The tackle itself (even though it was late ) probalby only warranted a yellow, I reckon why the ref made it a red, was because of Cahill's dissent. He was gestured back by the ref 3 - 4 times, and blatantly ignored him, even when Cahill turned round, he gestures with his hand to the ref, not the 2 fingered kind, but still a gesture of dissent. So, before we blame the ref, FA, the top 4, look closer to home for someone to blame, because Cahill is to blame, no-one else.
You could see it coming couldn't you. Everton lodge an appeal against Cahill's straight red only for it to be declined.
Chelsea appeal against Terry's red card and it's accepted.
I'm getting really hacked off with the inconsistent and biased actions of the people at the FA... Makes me sooooo angry!!!! ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!
Yeah Brian,
Tim is tit, Terry behavior after seeing red was text book of how gentemen should act... it took him only 5 min to leave the park and still Chelsea won the appeal. Pure joke
Tim is tit, Terry behavior after seeing red was text book of how gentemen should act... it took him only 5 min to leave the park and still Chelsea won the appeal. Pure joke
I agree with Michael that the obvious bias is now spoling the game. See also that Halsey was ’dropped’ for a game (Terry’s sending off), and Styles won’t be (Man Utd’s penalty against Bolton). Explain that one to me!
Styles has phoned Bolton to say sorry, Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Is that a bias I see before me??
Is that a bias I see before me??
Brian Waring
You would make a fair point if it wasn’t flawed in procedural terms. Had Tim been sent off for dissent, that would have constituted a yellow for the tackle and a further yellow leading to a red for the dissent. He may have deserved that by his actions but that did not happen. He got a straight red for the tackle, we rightly appealed against the straight red and the appeal was wrongly turned down. Therefore, it is right and proper that we have plenty more of the ""If that would have been one of the top 4" shite" as it never seems to end for Evertonians.
We did not deserve a win against the RS so why do we have to take even more injustices like losing a first class player for the next three games (two of which will be against three of the remaining ’top teams’)? It just compounds the unfairness of it all and stinks. If I was even slightly cynical.....
When will we ever get a wrong decision in our favour against ANYONE, let alone the ’Sky 4’? So much for things evening out over the course of a season. That is utter crap, we all know it and we have no choice but to constantly swallow it. It makes me want to puke.
You would make a fair point if it wasn’t flawed in procedural terms. Had Tim been sent off for dissent, that would have constituted a yellow for the tackle and a further yellow leading to a red for the dissent. He may have deserved that by his actions but that did not happen. He got a straight red for the tackle, we rightly appealed against the straight red and the appeal was wrongly turned down. Therefore, it is right and proper that we have plenty more of the ""If that would have been one of the top 4" shite" as it never seems to end for Evertonians.
We did not deserve a win against the RS so why do we have to take even more injustices like losing a first class player for the next three games (two of which will be against three of the remaining ’top teams’)? It just compounds the unfairness of it all and stinks. If I was even slightly cynical.....
When will we ever get a wrong decision in our favour against ANYONE, let alone the ’Sky 4’? So much for things evening out over the course of a season. That is utter crap, we all know it and we have no choice but to constantly swallow it. It makes me want to puke.
I think we should stop going on about the red card now, yes its tough shit that Cahill will be out of matches against Arsenal and Man United but Im more annoyed that he is going to miss the more winnable match against Newcastle, as lets be honest if we dont win that one then I dont know where our next win will come.
The biggest thing I have noticed under David Moyes in derby matches is that we rarely ever keep 11 men on the pitch, the scenario nearly always goes the same way, we are at home to Liverpool, at least two goals down and then we start making stupid petulant tackles and getting players sent off.. We have been down to NINE men an unbelievable THREE times at Goodison Park in home derby matches since the 2002/2003 season.. In other matches we have had a man sent off at Anfield and then Cahill most recently on Saturday..
Is there an inability to play the game using our heads or something?. I wouldnt actually mind if we spent the match closing Liverpool down and making tackles but we do next to nothing all match and then start making pointless tackles when the game is well up..
Maybe everyone at Everton would stop feeling so hard done by if Moyes drummed into the players to develope a real mean streak and start doing what other clubs do, such as making the most of any bit of contact in the box to gain a penalty or chase the refferee like a pack of wolves when we are not awarded one..Too many times last season when we were snubbed blatant decisions especially in the penalty box, the players just got up and got on with it thus showing the reffreree respect but obviously it has done little good to Everton at all..
I know what my advice would be to them but we can no doubt expect more enraging decisions in the near future so I siggest we just get on with it.
The biggest thing I have noticed under David Moyes in derby matches is that we rarely ever keep 11 men on the pitch, the scenario nearly always goes the same way, we are at home to Liverpool, at least two goals down and then we start making stupid petulant tackles and getting players sent off.. We have been down to NINE men an unbelievable THREE times at Goodison Park in home derby matches since the 2002/2003 season.. In other matches we have had a man sent off at Anfield and then Cahill most recently on Saturday..
Is there an inability to play the game using our heads or something?. I wouldnt actually mind if we spent the match closing Liverpool down and making tackles but we do next to nothing all match and then start making pointless tackles when the game is well up..
Maybe everyone at Everton would stop feeling so hard done by if Moyes drummed into the players to develope a real mean streak and start doing what other clubs do, such as making the most of any bit of contact in the box to gain a penalty or chase the refferee like a pack of wolves when we are not awarded one..Too many times last season when we were snubbed blatant decisions especially in the penalty box, the players just got up and got on with it thus showing the reffreree respect but obviously it has done little good to Everton at all..
I know what my advice would be to them but we can no doubt expect more enraging decisions in the near future so I siggest we just get on with it.
The FA and Premier League are both corrupt - as highlighted once again by this decision. I’m amazed that anyone still supports the game anymore....
Christ,
This persecution complex is getting really quite boring...if it’s not referees it’s BBC scheduling, Alan Green or ducks gone barefoot!
Cahill was sent off for a two footed lunge - a challenge which, by the letter of the law, is a red card offence.
Why Evertonians seem to insist in doing a tiny tim routine every time we get punished for OUR own recklessness is really quite infuriating.
Cahill is the one who should hang his head - while perhaps those people complaining about this perfectly rational decision should grow up - rather than trying to blame is every person on the planet.
And to blame Alonso for staying down is a bit hypocritical, considering saome of Cahill’s previous behaviour in eliciting red cards for oppposing players!
And before anyone starts - I think Riley is a shít referee.
This persecution complex is getting really quite boring...if it’s not referees it’s BBC scheduling, Alan Green or ducks gone barefoot!
Cahill was sent off for a two footed lunge - a challenge which, by the letter of the law, is a red card offence.
Why Evertonians seem to insist in doing a tiny tim routine every time we get punished for OUR own recklessness is really quite infuriating.
Cahill is the one who should hang his head - while perhaps those people complaining about this perfectly rational decision should grow up - rather than trying to blame is every person on the planet.
And to blame Alonso for staying down is a bit hypocritical, considering saome of Cahill’s previous behaviour in eliciting red cards for oppposing players!
And before anyone starts - I think Riley is a shít referee.
I think it may have been in part due to Cahill’s persistent fouling and generally annoying the referee on Saturday - he does have a tendency to do the odd ’Scholes-like’ tackle too.
The ref sent him off for a bad tackle, he then pissed him off even more by walking away and refusing to talk to him so he red carded him - its tough on us as a team but he only really has himself to blame.
Live with it, move on, next.
The ref sent him off for a bad tackle, he then pissed him off even more by walking away and refusing to talk to him so he red carded him - its tough on us as a team but he only really has himself to blame.
Live with it, move on, next.
One question I would ask the ’just live with it’ guys on here. Are you saying that you do not think there actually is referee and FA bias in favour of the top 4? Or are you saying that there is, but we should just ignore it and do our best?
Lee, I do know the rules. But, we don’t know what was going through Riley’s mind. Wasn’t it Riley who had the run in with Ashley Cole? Maybe he has thought " fuck this again " and just produced a straight red. What got me thinking even more, on Sky’s match report, they reckon that it had looked like Riley was fingering for the yellow.
Cahill was an idiot. He was lucky to be on the pitch to make the challenge on Alonso as he could easily have been sent off a few minutes earlier for throwing his hands into one of the red shites face.
If it had been clattenberg reffing then stevie G la la wouldn’t even get a red card!!
Neil,
No I don’t think there is bias in favour of the top four - however I do think there is a tendency to look for it.
No I don’t think there is bias in favour of the top four - however I do think there is a tendency to look for it.
Isn?t it funny that no-one has mentioned the goal, the shite had dissallowed? It should have stood, because there was no foul leading up to it. And, Riley did give us decisions, that if you were a redshite, you would be scratching your head at.
I agree with Ciaran, I think there is a tendancy to look for the bias.
Ciaran - the tackle by Cahil was NOT two footed and those well known Evertonians Alan Hansen and Jamie Redknapp said as much on separate TV programmes. Yes it was a reckless tackle and I think it warranted a yellow card - but it was far from being the worst tackle of the game. What annoys me is that Cahill has the same suspension as Guthrie - and Guthrie?s tackle was malicious and broke the Hull City player?s leg. The Referee on Saturday was poor - in my opinion he gave bad decisions against BOTH sides e.g I seem to recall Alonso being one of at least two players ( the other Fellaini ) who received a yellow card for what was at worst a free kick.
Riley is a poor Referee and I am sick and tired of the FA coming up with all kinds of initiatives. This season it?s Respect - well somebody should tell them that respect works two ways. I think the football referees would do well to have a look at how Rugby Union games are refereed. In that sport the Referee makes use of the Team Captains to instill discipline, often telling the Captains to " sort " any misbehaving players out otherwise they will give them a yellow card - which in that game is a "sin binning" for 10 minutes I think. In football the referees are too often " card happy" - producing their cards as if they were auditioning for the Royal Shakespeare Company - and hardly communicating with players.
I am not trying to justify some of the appalling behaviour of players towards Referees as shown by Chelsea and Man Utd especially a certain Wayne Rooney. But I would really love to see the FA trying to encourage the Referees and the Team Captains to "interact" as they do in Rugby Union.
Every 4 years I look forward to the World Cup - and I have lost count of the number of potentially great matches that have been ruined by appalling Refereeing. The three yellow card "trick" of Graham Poll sums it up.What other sport has such poor officials??
Sorry to go on - but I am getting fed up with the inconsistencies of the FA. As both Hansen and Redknapp said - there is no way that Cahill?s challenge deserved a red card - it was a yellow card.And if Riley was annoyed at him walking off - he should have produced 2 yellow cards. Wasn?t he the Referee that gave Man Utd 7 yellow cards at Stamford Bridge the previous week?
If a player has a bad run of form then he runs the risk of being dropped, why not Referees ? Not my words those of Jamie Redknapp ex Liverpool FC in his post-match analysis of Saturday?s game.
I agree with Brian, Tim was a tit, i like him for what he has done for Everton and all, but he shouldn?t have walked away, he shouldn?t have retaliated ni the tackle and then walk off like he did. I could site Ashley, I say Ashley Cole as a point in principle, but that doesn?t make it right what Tim did.
Simple as, Gerrard wouldn?t have done it, he may have done the tackle but he would have listened to the ref and taken the talking too.
Michael,
I dont really care what Hansen, or anybody else says for that matter..
I have eyes. It was a two footed challenge, both feet left the ground and studs were showing...
There may have been minimal contact but that is irrelevant.... Some refs may have given a yellow, equal number would have given a red.
Yet Evertonians seem to be moaning like spoilt children. Pathetic.
I dont really care what Hansen, or anybody else says for that matter..
I have eyes. It was a two footed challenge, both feet left the ground and studs were showing...
There may have been minimal contact but that is irrelevant.... Some refs may have given a yellow, equal number would have given a red.
Yet Evertonians seem to be moaning like spoilt children. Pathetic.
Tim Cahill was one of only a few players who actually looked like he was pissed off with getting the runaround from Liverpool. Ok his tackle was a bit over enthusiastic, but at least he looked as though that he gave a shit. How many others could say that?
Ciaran - " I don?t care what Hansen or anybody else says ......." Isn?t that the attitude of a spoilt child - not to care about what anybody else says ?
The point I was making was that it wasn?t just Evertonians who felt that the red card was harsh - nor is it just Evertonians who think Mr Riley?s recent performances rather poor.
The point I was making was that it wasn?t just Evertonians who felt that the red card was harsh - nor is it just Evertonians who think Mr Riley?s recent performances rather poor.
Whilst i don’t want to start a witch hunt for Mike Riley.....
his performances period have been fuckin awful, i haven’t yet seen a game where he hasn’t fucked it up some how. In fact i am so fucked off with that particular ref, that i may take up reffing myself just to see how hard it really is to make a decision.
his performances period have been fuckin awful, i haven’t yet seen a game where he hasn’t fucked it up some how. In fact i am so fucked off with that particular ref, that i may take up reffing myself just to see how hard it really is to make a decision.
Scratch that, a CORRECT decision....and Clattenberg...don’t even get me started on that cun.......
Michael,
A dismissal of Hansen was merely the presentation of an argument that I have a perfectly good pair of eyes and don’t need anyone else to translate their perception.
I’ve already stated my belief that riley is a clown, and an inconsistent clown at that.
However this does not change the nature of the challenge...
You seriously look at this picture and tell me that is not a use of both feet...
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:E4breBW3xCsoYM:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/graphics/gallery/football/premiership/sat010105/liver2.jpg
Ill await your response with anticipation.
A dismissal of Hansen was merely the presentation of an argument that I have a perfectly good pair of eyes and don’t need anyone else to translate their perception.
I’ve already stated my belief that riley is a clown, and an inconsistent clown at that.
However this does not change the nature of the challenge...
You seriously look at this picture and tell me that is not a use of both feet...
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:E4breBW3xCsoYM:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/graphics/gallery/football/premiership/sat010105/liver2.jpg
Ill await your response with anticipation.
Ciarán ?
Let me start by stating I believe it was a poor tackle and defo warranted a yellow card. His behaviour after the tackle was also poor and again perhaps warranted another yellow.
However the tackle was not 2 footed and the pic you use as ’proof’ is a poor one.
Unless a player is a master contortionist his 2nd leg WILL undoubtedly follow his 1st that?s the way a body tends to work!
Live and later on TV I saw his leading foot clatter into Alonso and then his second after the 1st as is the case with most sliding tackles.
Any who big whoop it again makes no difference now and we will go through the season feeling aggrieved more often than not but that is the lot for an Everton fan methinks. Onwards and well with a bit of luck upwards.
Let me start by stating I believe it was a poor tackle and defo warranted a yellow card. His behaviour after the tackle was also poor and again perhaps warranted another yellow.
However the tackle was not 2 footed and the pic you use as ’proof’ is a poor one.
Unless a player is a master contortionist his 2nd leg WILL undoubtedly follow his 1st that?s the way a body tends to work!
Live and later on TV I saw his leading foot clatter into Alonso and then his second after the 1st as is the case with most sliding tackles.
Any who big whoop it again makes no difference now and we will go through the season feeling aggrieved more often than not but that is the lot for an Everton fan methinks. Onwards and well with a bit of luck upwards.
I wasn’t aware a two footed challenge required a exactly simultaneous and reflective contact on the opposing player...
There was me thinking it was about how many feet were used in the tackle..
It was cerrtainly not the worst two footed challenge i’ve ever seen...in fact it was pretty tame...but it was two footed and dangerous nonetheless...
There was me thinking it was about how many feet were used in the tackle..
It was cerrtainly not the worst two footed challenge i’ve ever seen...in fact it was pretty tame...but it was two footed and dangerous nonetheless...
Ciaran - we will have to agree to disagree on this one. The main point I was trying to make was that I my thinking it a bad decision is not another case of the "bitter" blues - had we by some "Roy of the Rovers" like comeback drawn/won the game I would still be angry at the sending off.And I still can’t believe Cahill has the same punishment as Guthrie - who after all made two kicks at the Hull player and has put him out of the game for several months.
Ciaran, A two footed lunge with studs showing? Are we talking about the same tackle. Its clearly a single footed challenge followed up by a trailing leg. As for studs showing if thats your idea of studs showing then just about every other tackle in a game of football would amount to studs showing. In terms of derbies I’d say it was kindergarten stuff.
You speak of hypocrisy well having witnessed Alonso berating Arteta earlier in the game presumably because he thought he’d had a role to play in his booking. It really is the height of hypocrisy for him to engage in the blatant feigning of injury in an effort to get another player sent off in the very same game. Cahill is no saint I’ll grant you but two wrongs don’t make a right. Riley was conned pure and simple. I’m not about engage in conspiracy theories but sometimes you simply have to tell how it is.
You speak of hypocrisy well having witnessed Alonso berating Arteta earlier in the game presumably because he thought he’d had a role to play in his booking. It really is the height of hypocrisy for him to engage in the blatant feigning of injury in an effort to get another player sent off in the very same game. Cahill is no saint I’ll grant you but two wrongs don’t make a right. Riley was conned pure and simple. I’m not about engage in conspiracy theories but sometimes you simply have to tell how it is.
How the hell did you see a two footed lunge Ciaran? The left foot was grounded, only just missing the ball and barely catching Alonso. The right leg was bent and if anything it was Cahil’s shin that made contact. I haven’t spoken to ANYONE since the game who thinks that it was a dangerous two footed tackle. All seem to agree at worst it should perhaps have been a yellow for a mistimed tackle.
I get the feeling however there’s no chance in talking to you as you’ve seen the same thing and have since created some sort of parallel universe in your mind where a two footed lunge occurred.
As for the appeal it’s a complete joke. Despite paranoia i had actually thought i was being pessimistic and that there was no chance the appeal would be turned down. Well, turns out the paranoia was right.
I get the feeling however there’s no chance in talking to you as you’ve seen the same thing and have since created some sort of parallel universe in your mind where a two footed lunge occurred.
As for the appeal it’s a complete joke. Despite paranoia i had actually thought i was being pessimistic and that there was no chance the appeal would be turned down. Well, turns out the paranoia was right.
Isn't the worst part here to do with the actual ref reaching for a yellow and then changing his mind because of Cahill walking off. Whether you think the actual tackle was worth a red or not, it seems that Riley thought it was yellow and then changed his mind and gave the red due to Cahills dissent. That should defo be 2 yellows if thats the case. How many times have sky 4 players got yellows then shown dissent and nothing happens?
Anyway how about a few years ago when Gerrard does a big 2 footed lunge on Naysmith and nothing happens there. This is where the bias is and no wonder fans and players get pissed off. From what I see there is no consistency across the league on refereeing decisions.
Anyway how about a few years ago when Gerrard does a big 2 footed lunge on Naysmith and nothing happens there. This is where the bias is and no wonder fans and players get pissed off. From what I see there is no consistency across the league on refereeing decisions.
Yeah that’s just what I was saying to a mate the other day actually. The ref wouldn’t have dared give Steve Gerrard a red card for that. On the contrary, that same ref gave him a free kicn last season at Villa when he demanded it after he ran into a player, and I’m sure it would have been overturned. remember his two-footed lunge on Naysmith a few years ago for which Poll only gave him a yellow. Its all a farce and I’m losing more and more faith each passing day.
Christ lads..... You want to listen to yourselves... enagaging in needless and frankly groundless conspiracy theories is exactly what you are doing.
Maybe you should start a home for ?put upon? Evertonians...
P.S riley had his yellow in one pocket and his red in the other...and he never took his hand off the red card pocket...the footage shows this quite clearly..
It was a dangerous tackle.... and a complete show of typical petulance.
Maybe you should start a home for ?put upon? Evertonians...
P.S riley had his yellow in one pocket and his red in the other...and he never took his hand off the red card pocket...the footage shows this quite clearly..
It was a dangerous tackle.... and a complete show of typical petulance.
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