The Mail Bag
3-5-2?
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Shocking to see so many people still bemoaning the blues despite a draw with the European Champions followed by two victories (performance counts for nothing if the points aren't on the board, ask Wenger after the Stoke game).
A lot is being made of the Carsley dilemma but an idea I've been throwing around is perhaps switching to a 3-5-2 formation? This allows Yobo, Jags and Lescott to all play 'centre back'. Neville right mid/def, Baines left mid/def. Arteta plays the 'holding' role as he did at Rangers. And no, before that gets shot down, holding doesn't mean get it and hoof. He could easily pick up the loose balls and start spraying them around. He's got a good enough work rate to cover a lot of the field so he doesn't need to sit in our half either. That would allow Cahill and Felly to get forward knowing they're covered. Both will have superior goal tallies to Arteta and yesterday showed by taking Felly off he doesn't trust both of them in centre midfield to be disciplined enough not to leave space if we need a goal.
We then have Yak up front with Saha or perhaps stick Pienaar in mid and Yak alone up front etc. It would give us options. Oh, and what does Vaughan have to do to get on the pitch?!
Ben Houghton, Posted 02/11/2008 at 10:12:15
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IMHO. Moyes will simply not want to risk his defense by playing a 3-5-2 with Neville (he is a little slow), further it brings into mind the gripe of playing people out of position...
On the criticism front, get used to it... This is going to happen. Forget now when some criticism may have been warranted on the performance, people on this forum were criticising when we defeated Sunderland 7 - 1!!!! So get used to it.
Lescott will soon be unhappy playing left back. His performances are getting poor and he will start to wonder if he wants to play for a manager playing him out of position on a regular basis. Why pay £6m for Baines and not use him?
IMO the 3-5-2 formation would be very exciting and would probably work under a more tactically astute manager. As it is we are stuck with Moyes, a man who?s tactical nouse is limited to swapping Arteta and Pienaar on the flanks after 30 mins, oooooh fucking genius!
Management is about making the most of the resources you have. And being a football fan is about individual opinion. It's what makes us all talk :)
Let me tell you, I?m unhappy at him playing left back, centre back, in fact any position on the pitch at the moment. He should thank his lucky stars he is getting a game in the Premier League ? not worrying whether its in the position he considers it best.
I feel sorry for Baines, I think he is more than capable to do the job for us, I think Moyes should think about playing a 4-2-3-1 formation, Neville, Yobo, Jags and Lescott at the back, Fellaini and Baines just in front of them, Arteta and Pienaar on the wings and Cahill playing in the centre midfield behind Yakubu! I would like to see this against West Ham next week whilst Screech is not capable of playing!
7th in the league though now, let's kick on the season and get as many points as we can! Let's get behind the boys! And Davey Moyes!
The formation’s good though, I’d just play Osman and Castillo/Rodwell instead of Fellaini and Baines in the centre midfield positions in the game against West Ham. And drop Lescott and play Baines LEFT BACK (which is his position, not bloody centre mid!)
Lescott has clearly lost confidence, I remember him last season bombing down the left with the ball with his strength, now he stutters every time he gets the ball. I feel sorry for him, but time for Bainesy to play I think.
Watching us against Fulham the Jag, Ossie & Screech played well but the rest were average at best; even Peanuts, whose distribution was Hibbertesque, just wasn?t at the races and should've come off instead of Maro, I think it?s time Moyes started dropping some of his favourites to try and make them realise their form isn?t prem standard ie, Arteta, Lescott, Cahill, Yak, Peanuts... if these start firing again, so will we.
Jagielka, Yobo and Lescott are central defenders and should play there, which means one of them has to be dropped judging by current form that man is Lescott
Moyes has played a lot of players out of position purely to accomodate them into the starting 11; it is high time he realised this does not work.
Neville is not a central midfielder and Lescott is not a left back; it hinders the balance of the team and results suffer as a consequence.
+ Good use of Jags/Yobo/Lescott
+ Best use of Baines & Neville as wingbacks and probably our best crossers of the ball
+ Allows Arteta (or Pienaar) to come more central and dictate play more. I think Arteta is wasted out wide.
It probably won?t happen but it's good to know that I?m not the only one who thinks this is a good idea.
My only concern with Mr Moyes?s selections is that, sooner rather than later, Leighton Baines and Joleon Lescott will get fed up with being messed about or played out of position by David Moyes and will want away, probably as early as the January window. Baines, who in my opinion is a quality left back, took all before him in his final season at Wigan and was ultimately selected for England. I can recall a number of Premier League Managers, including Martin O?Neill and Roy Keane, singing his praises.
Lescott, who was also a quality defender before his sudden and dramatic loss of form left him playing like a poor quality championship defender, also drew praise from other Premier League managers. Both are reported to be on Roy Keane?s radar and would be good purchases for him in the coming transfer window. I believe that Keane?s interest and support would revive both of their careers.
As for the criticisms of Lescott?s performances this season, I agree he has been poor. But my question is ?why has he lost form so quickly and so suddenly and so dramatically?? Not being a believer in coincidence, I am left to ponder the possibility that his relationship with Mr Moyes is poor or that he has simply lost interest in continually being played out of position. Either way, the future for Lescott (and Leighton Baines) under Mr Moyes does not look promising.
The same can also be said of our loan signing Segundo Castillo, a player with a solid reputation in Europe for being a quality attacking midfielder. I am at a loss to understand why David Moyes signed him, or why the club allowed him to be signed, because Mr Moyes is not using him at all. He too, won?t take long to become unsettled by continuous snubs from the manager.
One theory has it that you play the system that gets the most out of what you have. The reason(s) we play(ed) 451 is; a) we don’t have 4 good enough to do the job so we need five...5 @ 80% = 4 @100% b) at the time we only had one fit forward, Bent. If the cap fits etc.
Last year we only had and still only have 3 decent defenders, when on form, Jags, who was, we were told correctly ( for no defensive mid he! ) by all the Sheff U ppl a right back cum centre half. Yobo, an out and out centre half. Lescott a left sided fullback cum centre half.
Last year I would have said Fernandes defensive CM, as some one said not long ago you don’t have to be brich shithouse tackler to play there all you need is a bit of a brian to spot the danger and a bit of skill on the ball to do something more than hoof it when you win it or are given it from the back 4, or back 3 in our case. and Osman can tackle, he came across late in the 2nd half with a cracker in tha box, I thought it was another jags special at first.
On the left Baines has pace and his supposed lack of height ( it didn’t do Parker Wilson and Wright any harm) will be covered by the player behind him.
Neville? I’m not so sure of, so roll on Jacobsen getting back.
So to finish, not a FM idea and not the worst one I’ve ever heard, well it wouldn’t be would it coz I agree with it.
I know its not pretty football at the moment, but they are trying to pass the ball. There needs to be more movement from the likes of Arteta, Lescott and Osman though. Pienaar played a few stinking passes, but he?s always getting into space & creating options. Arteta especially really needs to do more of this.
While I?m on a trip down Memory Lane... just how good was Oli Dacourt eh? One of the most classy players I?ve seen play for Everton (IMO).
Because he was absolutely atrocious when he?s played this season, coming up with assists, inch-perfect crosses and goal-line clearances... What a waster... what else could Moyes have done apart from drop him!
While Lescott has been simply outstanding!
We do have players capable of passing on the deck so can?t they work on it in the 5 days training they have? A back 4 in todays game is a must. With 3 center halves the opposition have too much space to ping balls into and Jags + Lescott on the outside of the 3 would get pulled out of position. Neville and Baines would have to sit back more and before you know it 5 at the back no-one supporting and getting forward. But none of us are the Manager. All we can do is use forums like this to vent our anger at the style of play and bounce ideas off of each other!!
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1 Posted 02/11/2008 at 14:27:12
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Nobody uses 3-5-2 for a reason. Lescott at centre-back? Arteta the ’defensive’ midfielder? Shocking proposals. Arteta is probably the worst defensively out of all our midfielders, whilst Lescott should be dropped pure and simple. We’d get absolutely killed and would have no width as Neville and Baines are not quick enough to play as wing-backs.