The Mail Bag
?Daylight robbery at Upton Park?
Comments (52)
Why the embarrassed headline? You wouldn?t use this title on a Sky4 club website. They expect to find goals however poor their performance. How often have we had a ?good? 75 minutes against these teams only to be taken apart by their strikers? Message ? get yourself some quality strikers if you want to get anywhere. Then look in the goals for and against column.
What?s the difference between Nasri?s ?great? deflected strike (according to Sky) and Saha?s winner? Nothing. So why is our goal ?lucky? while Arsenal scored a great goal? West Ham missed their few (very few in the second half) good chances and when they did strike well met a keeper on top form. That also is allowed in a good team. We hung in, didn?t concede a second goal ? and didn?t look like conceding one in my view, despite the headline ? and were always in the game as a team that can usually find a goal. And we did. Plus a winner. Plus a superb bonus goal.
So let?s have a more balanced headline, such as ?Everton quality in front of goal turns game in last quarter?.
Peter Hall, Posted 09/11/2008 at 09:44:07
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Credit to the lads for keeping going and credit to Saha for turning it on and showing his undoubted quality. I can’t agree that he is past it, not a chance.
More of the same boys, but with better and more entertaining football. For 80 odd minutes we where fucking terrible, we need to build on this.
I have to admit I?m probably old school: I get infinitely more pleasure from watching a great display of pass-and-move counter-attacking football than I do from watching a dour "keep it tight and nick one/two/three" display such as served up by Moyes. If the last-minute turnaround becomes our modus operandi for the rest of the season, it will put us in a good finishing position in the table, and many Blues who are only interested in results will be gleefully happy.
But the primary pleasure of watching "the beautiful game" will have gone for me. To be honest, I think it already has. And there is only one person I hold responsible for that.
’Super sweet finish as hitherto sticky toffees snatch 3 late goals and 3 points’
OR,
’Blues deal triple hammer blow of late goals to seal another late show victory from jaws of defeat’.
Still, at the end of the day, a win is a win is a win!
So let?s take off the blue tinted specs for a minute, yes it was a great result with plenty of positives (Saha being the main one), but let?s not get too carried away eh?
This was a third consecutive win for us, and the second of two away from home.
I think "daylight robbery" is too strong (?nicked? perhaps?). The headline makes it look like the author is grudgingly announcing we won when he would have been happy to see us lose. It?s not as if we won 1:0. We scored three (yes THREE) goals late in the game. Surely that is deserving of at least one point!
WHU played some fairly decent football, we had 19% possession first half, and but for the last 15 minutes were thoroughly 2nd best. To win the game was not a true reflection of the performance, hence the phrase "daylight robbery".
To those who don?t get it, the ?robbery? part is just as LITERALLY meant as the ?daylight? part ? the match played under floodlights because it was dark. It's a turn of phrase. TW did not mean we went in with balaclavas and stole from them. Moreover, I think it shows that Evertonians can call it as it is when we have headlines on our own sites saying we were lucky. If you want propaganda bollucks that everything is rosey, recommend you try the website: www.evertonfc.com
For my part, the glorious last 8 minutes has deflected 82 minutes of total garbage which badly needs addressing.
10points from 4 games is good enough for me... Cheers.
Pathetic...
By all means, celebrate the result itself -- three points away to a decent side like West Ham is a great night out. At the same time, though, ask yourself this: Would a Big Four side or one of the UEFA Cup hopefuls only be 1-0 up after the way Everton played for most of the match?
Daylight Robbery?
You betcha it was... The positive results will build confidence and with confidence will come better football... just like it did last year for a while.
Or have some of you miserablists already forgotten?
Credit to Moyes for an inspired substitution... but perhaps Vaughn should have been on from the start eh Davie?
One last point AJ has ?won? a penalty for Fulham... Fuckin ell!
All in all, another awful display of the beautiful game, but a terrific result when you consider 3 big players were out.
I can?t claim to have read all of the newspapers this weekend, but a trawl through the match reports paints a much more positive picture than this site which is a bit difficult to understand. The media?s headlines are also lacking the perjorative tone of Kenrick/Lloyd/Kavanagh ? whichever of you coined it. We can be constructively critical of our team/players/manager without resorting to insults in my opinion.
Football is not just about clever passing. It?s a hard, endurance sport and the final sprint is just as important as the rest of the game. Maybe WHU were guilty of coming out of the blocks too fast and ran out of steam. Remember Ali/Foreman? All the great sides keep going for 90 minutes ? that?s why the ref didn?t blow at 80! I?m not saying we are a great side yet, but it?s one of the features and one to be celebrated, including the great goalkeeping display ? another feature of top sides? how often do we match "top teams" only to be thwarted by astonishing displays of goalkeeping?
I am lucky enough to have been well into adulthood when big Nev was at his peak. We don?t complain about all the goals he prevented from going in! So come on lads ? a bit of positivity and credit where credit is due eh?
We all want EFC to make us proud by playing well. But look down the table as well as up - we’re 7 points from hell and the same from heaven. Give me a winning goal any day (or dark November afternoon).
I can't believe we are even picking the bones of a 3-1 WIN away from home like it's some sort of disaster because we only upped our game after we conceded. That was when the fightback started and not the last ten minutes. Instead of slagging the team for playing poorly in the first 60-70 minutes (which they did), can't we praise them for showing some character and not giving up, which has been so common this season when we have conceded?
How can anyone be complaining about how things are. Is there one single "Evertonian" out there who would rather we played well for 80 mins and lost.
Would we rather be playing good football and losing games (1 point out of 21 for West Ham)?
We all know that at the moment football isn?t brilliant and we can certainly do better. But I for one would take poor performances and another 40 odd points between now and May.
Let's all stop moaning (those constant whingebags and Moyes detractors) and get behind our lads at home. (Our weak vocal support at home has been worse than the players' performance).
In Moyes we Trust.
Moyes brings on Vaughan, game changes and the pressure built before they cracked! We ripped them apart in the last 15 no question.
ps: How good was Jagielka and Howard in that first half?! Top quality.
As for Michael Kenrick and his "beautiful game" well I?ve been supporting Everton since the early 60s and also class myself as "old school".
Now I might be getting senile but apart from a year or two in the Ball/Kendall/Harvey era and the mid-eighties, I cannot really remember Everton being noted as a team playing the Arsenal type of football. The odd game here and there maybe but not with any consistency.
From Catterick to Moyes with Kendall, Royle and Smith in between Everton have always been a more workmanlike outfit. The last time Everton were involved in a great pass and move football game we got hammered 7-1 by Arsenal. So Michael if you really want to see that week-in, week-out get yourself to the Emirates. Don?t know when you saw it consistently at Goodison
Maybe Moyes and his fans are correct and results will keep going for us, but it is in my opinion a waste of the talent that he has at his disposal. Of course results are important but I want Moyes to build something that lasts longer than today?s headlines.
But judging by the reactions of some people, today?s result is the only thing that matters. Win a game luckily or otherwise and everything is magic, regardless of the performance. I hope that we keep winning but I would prefer a bit more enterprise because I think the players are more than capable of producing good football and getting the required results.
We know we're not Arsenal but we have the players capable of playing better football. I think we?d be a much better team if we kept the ball on the deck.
The likes of Osman, Pienaar and Arteta aren?t players who are going to revel with a percentage long-ball game.
It?s just the basics for me, keep the fucking ball. That?s all I ask. I?m sure we will get it right when we find the right balance but a the moment it doesn?t look good and a good team would roll us over.
Over the last few seasons Arsenal, first team and youth team in the Carling Cup, have without doubt been consistantly the most entertaining and easy on the eye team in England. They have won nowt. I bet if you asked every Arsenal supporter they would give all their lovely one-touch, 'walking it in the net' type football for a trophy.
1984 we were second best to Luton in the semi, we went on to win and then lift the FA Cup. Can?t remember anyone complaining. I was at Wembley in 1968 when we swamped West Brom, all over them. We lost. I bet you never heard one Albion supporter complain
Sorry guys, at the end of the day ugly wins count. If it breeds more confidence that will let us express ourselves more openly well and good.
A game and a season are long hauls not a sprint.
Moyes totally abrogated his responsibilities as Everton Manager during the summer, and we have paid the price with a quarter-season of the most abysmal football from players who are capable of far better.
But meanwhile, appreciate what we CAN do and Do do. (your CAPS!)
Because four or five years ago we COULDN’T do this!
My point is that if we want the rest of the football world to respect us we should respect ourselves - and this match was no more ’daylight robbery’ than the Sky4 execute many times a season.
Paul O’Hanlon, where have you been. Nobody said three weeks ago that Arsenal performed ’daylight robbery ’on us, though we were good enough and 1-0 ahead for most of the game. Everybody faced up to the fact that over 90 minutes they are better than us.
And we’re better than West Ham. Why pretend otherwise?
!"I don?t think it?s beautiful football Michael wants to be honest. All he wants is his teams to do the basics, retain possession and actually look like a Premier League side."
Connor, enjoy the planet you’re on. Not only do we ’look like’ a Premier League side but we are, now and recently, one of the consistently better ones. Boring to discuss such contributions further.
Meanwhile Peter Nickson’s response seems to me to take my thread and move it to a higher level, in terms of the total challenge football presents. If nothing else it made the thread worthwhile. Go back and have a look at it if you missed it.
We are capable of it and it would suit our midfield more who are small technically gifted players.
Long ball, percentage football like yesterday isn?t the long term answer for me. Especially not when you?ve got players like Osman, Arteta and Pienaar in midfield.
For 82 minutes yesterday we looked fucking awful and for the majority of the season we have failed to do the basics.
I?d just like to see an improvement from the manager and the players. We are capable of playing a lot better than this. I don?t see the problem with that to be honest.
Then, we came on (its great watching footy in the US of A as 9 of the ten matches in the Prem can be viewed). The game was dreadful. I was watching about ten minutes behind live on my DVR, and I kept fast forwarding because I couldn?t bear watching another second of the match. We were HORRIBLE. If we had lost 1-0 it would have been just. But we robbed them of the three points and hence the headline.
Michael is absolutely correct. If you had seen the entire match, you would never have thought the scoreline would be 1-3 to Everton. Remember that visit by Arsenal last year to Goodison. We completely outplayed them in the first half and they ended up crushing us. WHU must be wondering what the hell happened.
One question... why was Lescott still in the penalty area when Saha crossed for the first goal? Anybody who plays footy know? I know he was up for the corner, but why did he stay.
And Osman made a fab play on the end line. Just great.
While we?re all having a bit of an MK bash, can I suggest Michael, that you probably are more interested in results than performance? Or to put it another way - would you prefer us to win the league playing shite football or get relegated playing Arsenalesque football? And in response to the original poster, I think the headline is a fair representation of the result.
Second half we were at par with West Ham. We were unlucky 'cause West Ham scored on a break.Our mofos didn?t get back in time to stop West Ham?s mofos from scoring.
We were great in the second half. It was a matter of time before we broke West Ham?s spine.
Second half started similar but again we absorbed their pressure well, my concern was that we hadn?t started playing at all in terms of getting the ball down and passing it round well, we were giving it away too easy.
I thought before they scored that we started to pass the ball better and create more going forward, they then scored which was a great move and a deserved lead, however in the last ¼ of the game and especially when Vaughan came on we were the better team. I think most people would have been happy that we had equilised but those 5 mins obviously changed that!
I don?t think it was daylight robbery but also don?t think we played well (going forward) until the final ⅓ or ¼ of the game.
One more thing, I was at the game, and if the result had been the other way round, I would have said we we?re robbed.
Your talking through your rear end
Why on earth do you steadfastly refuse to recognise the terrific ball from Big Vic to Cahill which should have resulted in a goal ?
Or the great cross when Lescot headed back across goal and Vaughan was literally an inch away from converting ?
Or the tremendous leap from young Jack - after yet another brilliant cross - clipped the woodwork ?
If you could get away with it you?d forget the goals we scored too
Fact : we could have scored six
Connor
When are you going to realise that the people you constantly claim are capable of playing good football are the very people who are responsible for the unattractive way we are playing?
When Arteta, Pienaar, Osman, start to come and take responsibility of less talented defenders, then and only then, will they stop panicking when opposition forwards close them down.
To me ’indescribably dreadful’ is on the end of a 5/6/7 nil defeat, the same way ’fantastic’ is winning 7-1 against Sunderland last season.
Surely Michael, the term you’re looking for is ’distinctly average’.
In ’99, ManU won the champions league at the very death, the following season the beat the shite with 2 late goals in the FA cup. People said then that it can be no fluke, its to do with never giving up.
Well now we’ve won 3 games in a row late on, this can be no fluke. Confidence will slowly flow back into our team and the performances will soon match the results.
I can remember when we beat Man United and the next day the Daily Mail gave Roy Keane the Man of the Match. I was fuming! Duncan Ferguson had ripped them to shreds, we'd defended brilliantly, were threats from set pieces and yet a United player was worthy of MOM. You'd have thought that we fluked a win. But in reality the 1-0 scoreline didn't reflect what had really happened. We had battered Man United that night.
Yet a few weeks later when we got hammered at Arsenal when, given the way they played that night they would have beat anyone, the next morning the Daily Mail proclaims that Everton shouldn?t be in the European Cup the following season and yet when The Shite got to the final our good friends from the Mail ran a campaign to get them into the Champs League the next season.
And then when they returned home with the trophy they stole the headline read ?OUR RED HEROES RETURN? well they certainly aren't my heroes. And no-one tipped us for even a top 6 place the next year. And when Harry Redknapp went to Spurs he said them along with Newcastle are the biggest clubs outside the top 4. Am I missing something here? So them 2 are bigger than Everton, who are the most recent team to break into that top 4, and over last 4 years have become the 5th best team.
And also it's worth noting we've won more League titles than Spurs and ?The Toon Army? put together. Ok I slate them, but we deserve better than this from the press. About time we got some praise. God forbid they ever give credit where it's due though.
Then again we perform better when everyone is on our backs so I personally hope it stays that way. We got 4th when virtually everyone said we were relegated before the season started and still wrote us off through the whole season. So come on, press, slag us off some more. COYB FTRS
We were a bit fortunate to still be in the game with ten minutes to go and well, you know the rest. At this level with the money we put into supporting our team and in the so called "best league" in the world, every player in the team should be comfortable on the ball and have some decent skill but of course we know that is clearly not the case.
The level we are seeing lately is as bad as I have seen for thirty or so years and we are doing quite well in the Prem, which says a lot about that as well. We may well beat most teams but reality is that the big four will continue to slaughter us and DM's record against them is not very good. I think we are just surviving rather than progressing and I am not happy with it because I feel that we are bigger than that. Kirkby and foreign owners make it even worse.
That’s a fair point to be honest. Which is why I don’t put all the blame on Moyes like others. It’s an all round thing for me, the manager has to be more positive and the players have to take responsibility.
Hopefully we can get it sorted as a group because I do believe we are capable of playing football of a better quality.
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The turnaround was compounded for me by the fact that Everton had played 82½ minutes of absolute shite up until the point when someone (Saha) finally put in a decent cross to a blue shirt who was in the right place and close enough to goal to make it count with a superb clinical finish. To go on from their and for Saha to bang in two more very well taken goals was nothing short of "Daylight robbery at Upton Park".
If that doesn't help you at all, try to think of the last time Everton were one goal down with less than 10 minutes to go, and finished the game winning by a two-goal margin...
I won't hold my breath. It's not something we do. We haven't even managed to score in the last 10 minutes of a game ? until very recently.