That more or less confirms my long-held suspicions, Andy, reinforced by my own experience, which may or may not tie into that Bahrain family mentioned above. I gave up believing anything Kenwright says long ago and will only believe he is willing to sell when there’s actual concrete proof that he has done. [Clarification of this comment provided further down the page]

Without getting into the wheres and whyfores of rumour and supposition (beyond saying that I’m always sceptical of unnamed sources), can I just pick up on the Bahrain family thing?

So, a seriously minted (I presume) family of investors from Bahrain sat down with Bill Kenwright, found him to be unwilling to sell, and in their pique bought Notts County instead?!? I mean, WTF?

It’s like me marching into a Ferrari dealership, not liking the salesman and then buying a Ford Focus instead. It just doesn’t add up, does it?

This is surely the only explanation why we have not been sold... I mean Notts County!!!! What a farce. It confirms things which I have heard also but don't have any proof of. Kenwright does not want to sell, despite what he says, you can tell it in his emotion when he’s interviewed. He must be forced out somehow.

I really think that, if we do not win something this season or break the top 4, then this team will break up (according to websites, it's already gonna be difficult for Moyes to keep players he's got) and, sooner rather than later, Moyes will realise we are not able to break through and move on.

We have to be the next best bet for investment after the top 4 and yet seemingly nobody is interested... it just does not make sense. Also, remember the Fortress Sports Fund? How did he manage to emerge unscathed from what was a blatant con — allegedly? If we are to move on, we need Mr Kenwright to leave asap.

I don’t believe Kenwright wants to sell either (yet!), but just because someone on another site writes a convincing story which backs up my opinion, it doesn’t mean I’m going to believe it. Why would the Bahrain family not make their interest publicly known to put pressure on Kenwright to sell, same as well with the other supposed buyers?

No, Declan, you're wrong there. I was buying a 16-bedroom mansion in Kent the other day and I noticed the fish in the moat looked a bit peely wally so I thought, sod that, and I got a bedsit in the north end of Birkenhead instead. Makes sense to me.

And you're also forgetting the maxim anything against BK will be greeted as gospel on this site and anything for him will have the poster banned and flayed.

Personally I think Bills the 2nd coming.

I am a multi-billionaire. Tried to buy EFC but Bill blocked it (damn him). Off to buy Southampton. Bye

I’m sorry, but this is the biggest load of bull that has been published on here. I could make up something equally absurd and post it myself. There are no references, other than a vague mention of an Everton "forum".

I know Toffeeweb is a voice for all Evertonians, but really, it shouldn’t go down the route of publishing letters that cannot even be attempted to be verified. This is Toffeeweb at its worst.

I’ve been following the "Bill Kenwright - anytime" debate on this site and have found it fascinating without it conclusively bringing me down one side or another of the fence.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m not a "fence sitter" by nature.

It’s just that I’ve never been taken in by Kenwright’s OTT displays of LUV when it comes to Everton. Call me cynical, but it just smacks sometimes of bullshit.

However, neither am I convinced by his critics. Investment would be wonderful but I am old enough to remember Leeds under Revie being practically unbeatable. When I now see them in League 1 (effectively the old third division) it reminds me that spend, spend, spend isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.

Sorry, Andy, the article is pathetic. Some guy mentioned something to some guy who said something to some other guy. Utter rubbish. Declan's and John Dybvad's comments should be condensed and made the answer to this article. Bahrainis pull out of buying Everton and go to Notts County, unbelievable.

Most of us appear to accept that transfer speculation is just that and we only get players when they’ve put pen to paper but BK gets assassinated on any rumour, half-truth or truth. Before we slag Kenwright off regarding this, he should be asked directly at this months Forum.

Can I ask what Kenwright’s "lame excuses" were? Who classes them as lame? They may be perfectly valid like "I don’t want Everton plunged into massive amounts of debt, thank you".

Is that really the reason Wyness left? There are a hell of a lot of other theories flying round that people claim are the "truth". I personally believe the story about Kirkby and keeping back transfer funds from Moyes as to why that fat twat left.

How come these 2 men are privvy to so much inside information about Everton and how come it seems to be then accepted as the gospel truth? I hate Kenwright’s bullshit but this peice is on a par with his "watch this space" comment in terms of bullshit.

Are you lot really looking at Man City with that much envy?

I am unconvinced by the basis of this post. I’m with John Dybvad on this as the evidence base seems spurious. I must admit to being surprised at Lyndon’s support for the post. I am intrigued by what Lyndon’s "own experience" is on this topic. Have I missed a previous discussion?

Also, Andy Ferguson, please correct me if I am mistaken, but did you not post an unsubstantiated comment in a mailbag thread last season about Castillo allegedly having grabbed Moyes by the throat? http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/08-09/comment/mailbag/mailbagitem.asp?submissionID=10012

Previous form anyone?

Lyndon et al, if you seriously consider taking a 3rd hand story that just happens to suit your own position, even though it combines the vaguest of uncorroberated accusations with the most ridiculous of claims, then I feel for you.

Chances of the story containing any truth whatsoever (as opposed to malign rumour) is about zero.

Andy Ferguson you do indeed have form on such things. Castillo did indeed play for Everton again and Moyes continually made kind & praiseworthy statements about his character. So that story proved to be a pile of shite and that just about sums up this one too.

One for the editor — can we lose this "I have it on good authority" crap. 103.7% of them are made up in the pub.

For the supposed discussion between the two directors, I view this as I view the "Well, my mate is an estate agent, and he said Joe Bloggs was looking for a flat in the Liverpool area, and then went into great detail of an upcoming move for £x million on £xk per week."

Also, a lot of people have been mentioning the takeovers at ’other clubs’ and mentioning West Ham. West Ham did not find an owner, a bank was merely forced to take over to prevent the club from crumbling. It wasn't an investment, it was a bad debt that the bank needed to takeover, even though they don't want it. They are not going to invest much money into the club, just the bare minimum for it to survive.

Also the takeover at Pompey is far from straight-forward. The backers are unknown and if it doesn’t succeed, then Pompey are on the brink of collapse because they have all their eggs in one very weak basket.

Sunderland have received investment, and while I don't know much of their group, Sunderland have a ready built stadium and are from what I know, relatively financially secure. Also for Sunderland, they don't require massive investment, building a steady Premier League team, reaping benefits of Sky, signing players for small sums, if possible selling players for big sums maybe qualify for Europe, maybe not it doesn't really matter. Sunderland will be a business for making money.

This is the problem we have at Everton. WE, the fans want investment in the form that we will see Moyes given £30-60mil (inc wages) on transfers per season, with our key players not being sold, and a high quality stadium being built in Liverpool (£150-200mil+) and £80mil+ in debts.

That is not a profitable business plan, unless Champions League Football is GUARANTEED every season for 10 seasons. This is impossible to guarentee, not only with the top-4 to break, there are 3 other clubs (Spurs, Man City and Villa) who are trying to break into it, and will spend big to get there. Also with Spurs, Newcastle, Leeds are examples that spending doesn't means sucess, something investors will look at seriously before committing.

We are also in the midst of a global economic meltdown, and while the odd liberal economist on BBC is saying there is evidence of ’green shoots to recovery’, the majority of evidence is suggesting that we are no-way near recovery period, in fact the recession hasn't even reached it’s peak, it's gonna continue to crumble for months and quite possibly years.

This is gonna eventually hit the Premier League. Consumer demand for products like the Premier League will drop globally, sponsorships will be reduced, attendances will fall etc. Not exactly prime time for anyone in the buyers market.

Of course ’experts’ on Sky News etc will continue to talk about how brilliant, powerful and safe the Premier League is; however, that is exactly what Liberal economist said about the economy post-Northern Rock (blaming the bank individuals rather than the wider economy).

I am not a fan of Kenwright. He is deceitful, self-promoting. He has failed to take advantage of the Premier Leagues growth in the last 8 years, he failed to deliver on the Kings Dock, and was very lucky to have hired such a brilliant manger in David Moyes, who did what he had to do, be it ugly and boring at times, to make Everton develop. Apart from not sacking Moyes when many other chairmen would have in 2004, he has done little to making Everton what we are today.

I also believe, from the type of person BK is, that he is determined to be part of any investment that does come into Everton and be viewed as ’the saviour’, which no doubt puts off investment. Also if we do reach the top-4 without it, he will get a lot of praise and recognition, and the club value will rise, BK will also earn more due to CL footy, so if its viewed as possible, which Moyes is showing it is, then why not try.

So I am anti-BK, however there is much much more to this than BK being the reason we haven’t received investment. He plays a role, but there are many contributing factors. This is not a simple I agree, I disagree question.

I do not expect investment of any meaningful degree in the next couple of years and maybe longer. I do expect to see a number of clubs suffer, however, and the number of professional clubs in England will drop in the next few years, and many clubs will disappear.

Kenwright sells drugs to Smurfs.

Holy Moley! I have never read such utter crap since the last time BKs name was mentioned on this site. It says something when the likes of Jay, Jolyenkoo and other well known BK haters are not taking up this opportunity to put the boot in.

That Lyndon lends his support to such a flimsy uncorroborated diatribe is a sign that the standards TW once upheld are disintegrating.

My initial response was misleading in that I didn’t mean to infer any concrete belief in the story that Andy passed on — what I intended to convey was that the account described follows in the same vein as a number of similar stories I have heard from a variety of sources in the past few months. So I should have said that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if that account were true.

Nor should it be assumed that I necessarily think Kenwright would be wrong to reject certain prospective buyers, rather that nothing I have heard either before or since that empassioned EGM speech about wanting to "find us a billionaire" suggests that he actually has any intention of selling.

So a rumour breaks in a paper, and we get the lazy journo comments, which are fully vindicated. If this ’account’ were indeed true, why oh why has it not made it to the papers — that's the first ’evidence’ of bullshit. The second was the Notts County namedrop.

BK is like marmite — some love him, others hate him. What can’t be argued against is that the club have moved forward under him — say it's down to Moyes/the players/the Toffee Lady, but he’s been the chairman and would take the flak more so if we had gone down.

And if you were a rich fan, who owned the club but wasn’t quite rich enough to plough the money needed in, wouldn’t you try to secure the kind of investment that would see you stay involved?

On a final note, care to inform us of these other sources Lyndon? Or are you busy digging your hole?

It shouldn't be too difficult to find whether a Bahrain investor did in fact invest in the club.

Too much information!

Fall in love all over again with the ultimate luvvy, as our very own Bill Kenwright talks to Suzie Quatro who plays his fave music. (Is this what became of Desert Island Discs???) ... Eddie Cochran, Elvis Presley, Ray Peterson, Roy Orbison, Johnny Rea, Bobby Vee, Bobby Darin, The Everleys....

Bill Kenwright and the Runaways — Holy Fuck! Sugarman... banned! Bill Kenwright in The Villians...

Where the fuck was Val Doonican???

[Have to admit I too shed a tear or three for Roy Orbison's Running Scared... Okay, so take me out and shoot me!]

This may shock most of you, coming from me, especially Dick Fearon but I have it on the best authority that BK is not the main problem with regard to the sale.

There is a very complex arrangement with Earl and Green who are handling and controlling the sale and IMO (not confirmed) trying to hold on for DK.

I have long given up hope that some big money backers would buy into Everton because quite simply, it's not for sale. Billy Liar doesn’t want to sell despite his claims otherwise and the only way out is for the fans to force him out... which is difficult since the club is doing well on the field and he does have his supporters.

I know the guy is blue through and through but he is holding us back at the moment. As ungrateful as it sounds, I would be the first to support any move to force Bill Kenright to quit the club.

Andy Morden. I only put on a thread on here which is on the People's Forum. I put it on here for people to debate on — which is what this website is all about.

I put information on regarding Castillo a while ago and that is information I was told by a current first team player. Where is Castillo now and did he ever get a proper look in? Was it beacuse he was shite or because Moyes didn't want to play him?

If you're not interested in posts that get put in here, don't bother to read them and most importantly don't comment, you idiot. Making suggestions like "previous form anyone" what are you — a sad little internet detective who goes online researching from the past? Get a life you beaut!

Fran Mitchell, I fully agree with what you wrote, though personally I think we are now out of "the bounce" and things are only going to get a whole lot worse for at least 18-24 months. Whether this forces BK’s hand only time will tell, but Jay Harris’s point is interesting... but very scary if true... because it would be likely that they will bail if DK (pray to God) fails, leaving BK to really get his backside into 24/7 mode - unless by chance the theatre industry bucks all trends and escapes the downturn... though really he’d be better ploughing his available cash into Lotto tickets. Of course all of the above does sound very conspiracy theory, paranoid fan talk... but that doesn’t make it untrue — the truth is out there.

Well said Fran Mitchell. Expertly put.

Dick - I don’t hate BK, I just think, let’s say, he has difficulties in telling the truth, and as such rarely does so. If it was with just everyday stuff (like... Who left the fridge open? BK: Not me!) then that’s one thing, but when it’s about DK, ring-fenced funds, 24/7 etc, kinda more important to judge the man on what he has said and done. Someone ask BK why KW resigned, that would sort the essence of this thread out. Ah, he aint saying is he... better than lying I suppose...

This story must be utter bullshit... I mean, seriously — who in their right mind would’ve been looking to buy a football club in the last 8 years of 24/7?

See Bill Kenwright in his remake of the classic John Ford western...’The Searchers’...

If Notts County is owned by Bahrainians why is their chairman and every other member of the board British?

Chairman: John Armstrong-Holmes
Vice-Chairman: Roy Parker
Director: Eric Kerry
Director: Glenn Rolley
Director: Peter Trembling
Director: Peter Willett

Life President: Derek Pavis

Maybe a bit of research can stop a lot of rumour.

Steve Pugh. It is good to research and if you look hard enough online you will find the following information."On the 4th June 2009, it was announced that Notts County were in talks on a take over by a Middle Eastern Consortium, headed by Peter Trembling and Peter Willett. This investment is thought to be in the millions and the club are believed to be given multi-million pound backing as the investors, part of the Munto Finance Ltd., look to turn around the fortunes of the World’s Oldest Professional Club. On June 30th 2009, it was announced that the Trust, who ownes the majority share in the club, had voted in favour of the take over. The deal is expected to be completed in the next two weeks.So as you can see with a bit of research you will see that is true and is due to be announced soon.

Also, if you check this link on the Official Notts County website it might be a bit beliveable..
http://www.nottscountyfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10426~1687261,00.html

Steve:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/notts_county/8082539.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/notts_county/8125876.stm

Just call me Columbo

Chad. That link you just submitted did you see the reference to Everton.
"Nottingham-born Trembling was recently commercial director at Premier League side Everton, while Willett is based in the Middle East overseeing the worldwide property investments of the Al Thani Investment Group"

It kind of all adds up.
IN MY OPINION. Before people start moaning. This is my opinion not what is the truth!!!

Well done Columbo(Chad)

Moyes said he was getting new players in early this season. Once again he hasn't.

I fully expect the usual diabolical start to the season, out of Europe, after trying all season to qualify, at the first hurdle to some nomarks. It beggars belief that we allow this to happen year after year and its obviously the fault of Kenwright, flying on his ego trip while Moyes performs miracles on relative peanuts.

There are a few things that will happen this summer and a few that won’t.

There will be no knight in shining armour on a white horse with carriages full of money or an Arab on a camel with a load of dirhams turning up at Goodison. Everybody is baffled why other clubs are bought by foreign investors and given millions to spend, yet never Everton. A great club with immense history, a loyal fanbase, a team regularly in Europe and an astute young manager. Why?

Lots of theories about BK not wanting to let go etc. The first thing any investor looks for is profitability, the whole concept of investment is to seek a return. If you look at our assets, squad aside, we have a fantastic new complex in Finch Farm, yet we have one of the most outdated stadiums in the division. Revitalising Goodison is sadly not an option. Which leaves us having to move.

Herein lies the problem, in my opinion. The much debated move from our grand old home is integral to our future, not only for reasons off the pitch, but also on it. More seats, extra cash, bigger transfer kitty?

Without discussing the location of our new stadium, I look at Man City. New, bigger ground on the edge of the City of Manchester. Then, not one but two big money takeovers in almost 12 months. I think there is a lot of comparisons between our situation and theirs through the eyes of an investor.

None of us know what the exact level of debt is at Everton, but sadly I feel it’ll be worse than expected. So, with a lump of debt and an ageing stadium, I feel this is why nobody has come and bought our club.

Forget the squad performing above expectations every year, and the club already selling more season tickets than last year's total, thanks to our amazing supporters. These points pale in significance next to the cost of building a new stadium and the time this would take to bear fruition.

Investors aren’t willing to fork out vast sums on a new stadium and wait years to see a return. If the new ground was built tomorrow, an investor could come in clear the debt and hand over a big kitty to DM to break the big 4 (Villa, City, Newcastle etc.). Instead they have to address the situation of the stadium immediately... because, as we were told, it’s becoming a liability to maintain year on year.

Also, the divide between fans on the location of the ground is surely a poisoned chalice for anybody to make a firm decision on, let alone a new owner who could be vilified from day one for choosing one way or another. With a team in Europe, Moyes at the helm, Finch Farm and a new Stadium, surely we would be an extremely attractive proposition for anybody looking to buy a football club?

At the moment we await the decision on Kirkby, one way or the other, as until this decision is made there’ll be no rubles or dollars, just BK’s mates' subs. Unless Sky give us our kitty early!

No matter what happens, keep getting behind Moyes and the lads, and hopefully we’ll have another good season. Let's face it, if you like plain sailing, you don’t choose to support Everton.

COYB

Peter,

Several questions:

1) How will Kirkby provide us with more money for transfers... as you seem to suggest? The powers that be were unable to explain that at the inquiry.... I’d be amazed if you can.

2) Are you aware that Man City don’t actually own Eastlands? And if they want to buy it, their investors will have to stump up serious cash?

3) Are you aware that an investor would have to cover the debt for our stadium and therefore would have to pay for a stadium? And a stadium which is in an area which is not of their choosing... and one which may affect profitability considerably?

4) When you refer to Goodison as a liability ’year on year’ — what do you mean exactly?

Finally, you suggest that the division among fans over Kirkby is a possible reason why an investor may have overlooked us. Do you not think this is a good reason for the Kirkby plans to be scrapped? Or do you honestly think these divisions will disappear with the magic wand of Kirkby?

"Moyes said he was getting new players in early this season. Once again he hasn’t"

The transfer window has only been open for a day!

Andy Ferguson — indeed it is a people’s forum so I feel it is permissible to comment upon posts that I a) dislike or b) disagree with or c) find spurious. As well as being free to post on the ones I do agree with.

The only reason I recalled the previous post on Castillo was because I commented upon it, not just to pick on you and show you up. I didn’t accuse you of having previous form, I merely made the suggestion for other members of the forum to make their minds up about.

I did like being called a "a sad little internet detective who goes online researching from the past" — I’ve been called many a thing, but never one of those before!

It wouldn't suprise me if this were true. I don't trust Kenwright as far as I can throw him. You just don't know what to believe when it comes to Kenwright. There have been too many BS situations with him like the phantom Alan Smith bid years ago, the ’’watch this space’’ Moutinho bollocks, the ’’we will have money to spendin the summer ’’ cmment that he makes every single fuckin' season...