The Mail Bag
Naughton Transfer Debacle
Comments (67)
In the wake of the alleged U-turn by Sheffield Utd on the agreement to allow Kyle Naughton to talk to EFC, it struck me how amateurish the whole transfer system is.
You would think with all the money involved and fat fees for lawyers some bright legal brain would have tied down a "can't get out of jail free" clause when a club accepts an offer.
I particularly don't understand why there can't be the infamous "exclusivity" clause applied to these situations until the player has time to take a medical and discuss terms. I don't see any problem with perhaps a 72-hour lockout clause.
You also have to question why yet again EFC try to do business on the weekend instead of bottoming it out during "normal" hours and getting the deal done before others come sniffing.
Jay Harris, Posted 13/07/2009 at 11:10:36
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According to the official Sheffield United web site, it says as of 15:11 - that Everton have agreed a deal with Sheffield United to sign Naughton, subject to the player agreeing terms....?
So I think it’s just a little harsh to say we are putting bids in for players we can’t sign?? What a ridiculous notion / statement — in this instance... I mean I could understand it if it was Ronaldo or something... let's just calm down and wait and see...
So I think it’s just a little harsh to say we are putting bids in for players we can’t sign?? What a ridiculous notion / statement — in this instance... I mean I could understand it if it was Ronaldo or something... let's just calm down and wait and see...
If it’s Naughton’s decision alone I suspect he’ll still top up here. Otherwise, worth a look at Nathaniel Clyne at the Palace — 18, plays right and left back, Eagles young player of the year. Terrific prospect. Probably get him for £1m. He started off at Spurs so I suppose there’s a trace of irony there if you can be arsed to look for it. As I’m not protected by the cloak of parliamentary privilege, my opinion of Redknapp must remain unrecorded for posterity.
As far as I am concerned the transfer market business is two-faced... I know all is supposed "to be fair in love and war" but any Manager coming in to gazump another fellow Manager just as the player is about to have a medical is, I think, a bit of a scum-bag. Does this apply to you Harry and to Sheff United? That’s the last time we sell them our valued players (James Beattie) [... tongue in cheek here guys!]
I’m not that arsed about a 20-year-old who’s only made 40 appearances at Championship level. It would be nice to sign a right back as Hibbert is shit but we shouldn’t get too worked up about it if he doesn’t sign.
I don’t even blame Sheff U for holding out for a higher fee, it’s just the game.
I don’t even blame Sheff U for holding out for a higher fee, it’s just the game.
How is this Everton’s fault?
Although it is annoying, I personally don't see anything wrong with what Spurs have done. They have offered more money for the player, which makes it more interesting to Sheff Utd.
At the end of the day, they don't give a fuck who they sell the player to. Just hinges on getting the best deal. I don't see anything at all wrong with that. Until a deal is signed in any commercial agreement in any industry, then it is not completed. Accepting an offer does not constitute a completed transaction.
If the lad wants to play for Spurs instead anyway, why would you want to force him to come to Everton? If he doesn’t want to come, fuck him.
He is a lad with potential, not a world class star. It's not something worth getting too excited about at this stage. I would like to see him join, but I won't cry if he doesn’t. It's the right midfield berth that concerns me more.
At the end of the day, they don't give a fuck who they sell the player to. Just hinges on getting the best deal. I don't see anything at all wrong with that. Until a deal is signed in any commercial agreement in any industry, then it is not completed. Accepting an offer does not constitute a completed transaction.
If the lad wants to play for Spurs instead anyway, why would you want to force him to come to Everton? If he doesn’t want to come, fuck him.
He is a lad with potential, not a world class star. It's not something worth getting too excited about at this stage. I would like to see him join, but I won't cry if he doesn’t. It's the right midfield berth that concerns me more.
"Alleged". Why is everyone panicking? This is the only site I’ve heard they’ve turned against (which I still doubt they can do). I also begs the question that if our bid was significantly lower than Spurs’, and was still accepted, why didn’t they just put in a bid similar to ours. Conversely, why did Sheff Utd accept a less-than-satisfactory bid by us, if the one Tottenham have placed was what they were really looking for?
Spot on Adam Doyle; why do so many people panic. Wait and see. People on here said the same about the Jo loan... remember?
This is just more Echo rumour mongering. There is nothing to support this on SUFC site.
Oh just read this."Though hugely frustrated by United’s volte face, Everton still hold the trump card in the fact that Naughton, who played his last game for the Blades in their 1-0 win against Floriana in Malta on Friday, has made it clear that Goodison is his favoured destination." So don’t slag the player.
At the end of day I beleive the lad will prefer to come to us anyway. He can see the likes of Jags, Lescott and Baines shine here and that would make a cracking, young all English back four!
Spurs seems to be a bit of full back graveyard, Bale, Hutton and Chimbonda have all failed to shine there. I just can't stand Harry Redknapp, the wobbly faced git is the used car salesman of football management. He would have done very little homework on the player, just seen Moyes make a move and trusting his judgement just flashed the cash to try to lure Naughton to London.
And as for Sheff Utd, I had plenty of sympathy for them in the Tevez affair... but now? Fuck em!
Spurs seems to be a bit of full back graveyard, Bale, Hutton and Chimbonda have all failed to shine there. I just can't stand Harry Redknapp, the wobbly faced git is the used car salesman of football management. He would have done very little homework on the player, just seen Moyes make a move and trusting his judgement just flashed the cash to try to lure Naughton to London.
And as for Sheff Utd, I had plenty of sympathy for them in the Tevez affair... but now? Fuck em!
Someone name me the last defender to look like he’s having a good game while playing for Tottenham? Jeez, they even managed to make Alan Hutton look average and he was supposed to be good wasn’t he?
If the lad’s got any nouse & any choice in the matter, he’ll be playing in Blue.
If the lad’s got any nouse & any choice in the matter, he’ll be playing in Blue.
You have to laugh, Sheff Utd getting slagged because they may have accepted a higher bid. If say, someone came and offered £10m for Arteta, and we agreed on that fee, then some other team came and offered us £12m, would you all be saying, "No, we agreed a fee with team A, so we are not interested in team B’s offer?" ... Thought not.
How on earth is this Everton’s fault? A club can accept offers from multiple clubs for the same player if they wish; it's then down to the player to agree terms.
Also, you can’t fault Sheff Utd. If the shoe were on the other foot, we need the money.
We know how poor Everton have been in the past conducting business but you can’t have a go at them for getting gazumped by Spurs.
Also, you can’t fault Sheff Utd. If the shoe were on the other foot, we need the money.
We know how poor Everton have been in the past conducting business but you can’t have a go at them for getting gazumped by Spurs.
I blame Tony Hibbert.
The speculation seems to be backed up by the official site now:
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/premiership/naughton-considering-other-options.html
But not sure of the source as it does not appear to be written by the Club (but not attributed to a newspaper or such either).
If he chooses us I think he is probably made of the right stuff (moving for football reasons not just money) as you’d think Spuds would pay more wages.
http://www.evertonfc.com/news/premiership/naughton-considering-other-options.html
But not sure of the source as it does not appear to be written by the Club (but not attributed to a newspaper or such either).
If he chooses us I think he is probably made of the right stuff (moving for football reasons not just money) as you’d think Spuds would pay more wages.
Why are so many fans refusing to believe this story is accurate, or even a legitimate possibiliy? (A. Doyle R. Davis, A. Rooney, M. Hill).
May I be the first to give the pre-emptive ’I told you so’, when it reaches our OS. (Childish, maybe, but nye-on total ignorance to a genuinely well sourced story is just foolish.)
This goes beyond the, "So what, he was just an unproven right-back" comments; it's a question of principle, EFC has not spoken a word about this deal and worthy sources (DK) have stated his preference is our club; why were Sheff Utd so eager to announce the agreement of a fee and the financial allure of this potential transfer in the first place?
However, as usual EFC also continue to perplex: as stated by a previous post, why enquire a month before making a bid, then bid when the player is in Malta and cannot conclude a deal, leaving the door potentially ajar for slimy bastard like Redknapp (the most shady character in football today, bar none)?
Villa I could handle, they are a decent young side; if they had an equal bid accepted and he choose them, fair play. Spurs and Redknapp would not make sense for those aware of life outside London, and their underhand tactics are typical.
Take your Wii remote and fuck off back to the fish market 'Arry, you make Del’boy seem like the poster child for Fair Trade.
May I be the first to give the pre-emptive ’I told you so’, when it reaches our OS. (Childish, maybe, but nye-on total ignorance to a genuinely well sourced story is just foolish.)
This goes beyond the, "So what, he was just an unproven right-back" comments; it's a question of principle, EFC has not spoken a word about this deal and worthy sources (DK) have stated his preference is our club; why were Sheff Utd so eager to announce the agreement of a fee and the financial allure of this potential transfer in the first place?
However, as usual EFC also continue to perplex: as stated by a previous post, why enquire a month before making a bid, then bid when the player is in Malta and cannot conclude a deal, leaving the door potentially ajar for slimy bastard like Redknapp (the most shady character in football today, bar none)?
Villa I could handle, they are a decent young side; if they had an equal bid accepted and he choose them, fair play. Spurs and Redknapp would not make sense for those aware of life outside London, and their underhand tactics are typical.
Take your Wii remote and fuck off back to the fish market 'Arry, you make Del’boy seem like the poster child for Fair Trade.
Isn’t Spurs the place where good players go to die?
I agree with Iain Latchford . It’s Hibberts fault, if he was a better full back, we wouldn’t HAVE to buy Naughton would we? Who else can we blame....?
I think that Spurs are offering to buy Kyle Wilkinson but leave him on loan for a season as part of the deal, which is why SUFC have re-opened the deal, you can’t blame them. Ultimately it will come down to the player and who he prefers to play for. If you’re looking for a stooge, then blame the people who structure the whole business of transfers, it’s a chaotic system, but would you have it any other way?
Its only a debacle if Sheff Utd are now only negotiating with Spurs and have pulled out of the deal with Everton. If they are still prepared to accept Everton’s deal then what is the problem?
If Spurs have come in with a higher bid and Sheff Utd are still prepared to let the player decide where he goes to then Spurs have more money than sense.
I bet everyone on this site had a furrowed brow when they read a weekend and several countries separated us from SUFC’s agreement and Naughton’s medical/personal terms session.
However, at this stage of Naughton’s career, he needs us more than we need him. If he chooses to rot away at Spurs because Barra’ Boy offered him an extra chip butty on Thursdays, then so be it. If he chooses us we just got extra confirmation that he is the exact type of player we want at Goodison.
Basically, no need to panic; works out for us either way.
However, at this stage of Naughton’s career, he needs us more than we need him. If he chooses to rot away at Spurs because Barra’ Boy offered him an extra chip butty on Thursdays, then so be it. If he chooses us we just got extra confirmation that he is the exact type of player we want at Goodison.
Basically, no need to panic; works out for us either way.
I don’t believe that Sheffield Utd have refused to deal with us anymore because of the higher offer from Spurs. As someone stated above, it is common practise for clubs to accept numerous bids for a player they have decided to sell, regardless of whether the bids are identical or not. If Kyle Naughton doesn’t want to go to Spurs and Sheff Utd refused to deal with us, then they would no doubt upset the player and end up losing him for much less at a later date. That would be poor business.
They’d already decided that they were happy to sell at whatever price we agreed, so accepting Spurs offer as well would mean that they may get the bonus of more money should Kyle opt for Spurs.
Spurs offered more money for a number of reasons. Firstly, they know that currently they are not as attractive a prospect as Everton. Their form is poor and they already have Alan Hutton (unless he moves in this window) so Kyle will only be second choice. He is much more likely to get his chance at Everton, so Spurs try to appeal to the greed in the player/club/agent and offer bigger wages/fees. If he chooses the money then it says a lot about the player.
Ismael, I believe you are being harsh. Nobody is rubbishing the story, just the known details. Spurs have made an offer, but that doesn’t mean that we won’t be able to speak with him as they have already given permission (IMHO). You also asked, "Why enquire a month before making a bid?" — My understanding is that we made a bid a month ago which was not accepted, not that we "enquired" then waited for a month. We had a bid rejected then went away and did some more thinking and some number crunching and came back with an improved offer. No other team made a bid for Kyle in that month, only when we tabled an improved offer and got permission to discuss terms did Spurs crawl out from under their rock and try and hijack the deal. That is my understanding of the reported saga, but maybe you are better connected and know more.
All that appears to have been reported so far is that Spurs have also had a bid accepted (and apparently Villa wait in the wings), so we have competition for the player. Maybe the OS will back you up eventually, but it is harsh to blast people for wanting to wait until it is definitive. If Spurs have offered a lot more than the reported £5m we have then they can have him if he wants to go because anything more would be a big gamble IMHO. COYB
They’d already decided that they were happy to sell at whatever price we agreed, so accepting Spurs offer as well would mean that they may get the bonus of more money should Kyle opt for Spurs.
Spurs offered more money for a number of reasons. Firstly, they know that currently they are not as attractive a prospect as Everton. Their form is poor and they already have Alan Hutton (unless he moves in this window) so Kyle will only be second choice. He is much more likely to get his chance at Everton, so Spurs try to appeal to the greed in the player/club/agent and offer bigger wages/fees. If he chooses the money then it says a lot about the player.
Ismael, I believe you are being harsh. Nobody is rubbishing the story, just the known details. Spurs have made an offer, but that doesn’t mean that we won’t be able to speak with him as they have already given permission (IMHO). You also asked, "Why enquire a month before making a bid?" — My understanding is that we made a bid a month ago which was not accepted, not that we "enquired" then waited for a month. We had a bid rejected then went away and did some more thinking and some number crunching and came back with an improved offer. No other team made a bid for Kyle in that month, only when we tabled an improved offer and got permission to discuss terms did Spurs crawl out from under their rock and try and hijack the deal. That is my understanding of the reported saga, but maybe you are better connected and know more.
All that appears to have been reported so far is that Spurs have also had a bid accepted (and apparently Villa wait in the wings), so we have competition for the player. Maybe the OS will back you up eventually, but it is harsh to blast people for wanting to wait until it is definitive. If Spurs have offered a lot more than the reported £5m we have then they can have him if he wants to go because anything more would be a big gamble IMHO. COYB
You might be right, Braam, or at least it’s where defenders go to die. Newcastle’s where every other player goes to die. I’m not gonna pretend the Barcodes even attempt to sign serious defenders.
The issue for me is if Sheff Utd have actually done a U-turn and are saying they won’t even entertain Everton after initially accepting the £6M or whatever it was, I agree that, if the shoe were on the other foot, we’d be entertaining other bids but, if we accepted a bid for someone then went back on that agreement, I think there’d be plenty of Evertonians who’d be disgusted by that sort of behavior. I doubt it’s the case that Sheff U have done that anyway, the player’s just had his head turned and as has been said, probably for more wages.
Yep, if the player isn’t sensible enough to come ply his trade at a club proven to give players a chance (AvdM had enough of them) then maybe we don’t want him.
I thought relations with Sheff U would be pretty good given the amount of activity we’ve had between the two clubs, Naysmith, Beattie, Jags... which is why I don’t believe they’ve gone back on their agreement.
The issue for me is if Sheff Utd have actually done a U-turn and are saying they won’t even entertain Everton after initially accepting the £6M or whatever it was, I agree that, if the shoe were on the other foot, we’d be entertaining other bids but, if we accepted a bid for someone then went back on that agreement, I think there’d be plenty of Evertonians who’d be disgusted by that sort of behavior. I doubt it’s the case that Sheff U have done that anyway, the player’s just had his head turned and as has been said, probably for more wages.
Yep, if the player isn’t sensible enough to come ply his trade at a club proven to give players a chance (AvdM had enough of them) then maybe we don’t want him.
I thought relations with Sheff U would be pretty good given the amount of activity we’ve had between the two clubs, Naysmith, Beattie, Jags... which is why I don’t believe they’ve gone back on their agreement.
It annoys me why Everton always have to drag a transfer out for much longer than it should be. It gives a chance for other teams to raise an interest and blow our chances of signing the player. It reminds me so much of the Manuel Fernandes saga when he was ready to sign for us, but Everton failed to conclude the deal and he was off to Valencia!
I accept I may be a little biased here, but isn’t it REALLY obvious that Everton is the best place to come?
The reports seem to suggest Naughton thinks so, which is credit to him, but as has been mentioned, Spurs, Newcastle (and even West Ham) have beaten us to players before, and they all go shit or injured within 6-12 months.
The big problem (as of right now) is that we don’t actually know what’s going on, we’ve waited a while for a decent transfer, and we’re so used to Everton cocking these situations up that many people are fearing the worst, getting frustrated and lashing out.
Those saying it's not a big deal if we lose out on him, I mostly disagree, as I’ve seen him live and he was absolutely outstanding at that level. The upside is we could bid for Kyle Walker if we miss out as he’s a VERY similar player and a year younger.
The reports seem to suggest Naughton thinks so, which is credit to him, but as has been mentioned, Spurs, Newcastle (and even West Ham) have beaten us to players before, and they all go shit or injured within 6-12 months.
The big problem (as of right now) is that we don’t actually know what’s going on, we’ve waited a while for a decent transfer, and we’re so used to Everton cocking these situations up that many people are fearing the worst, getting frustrated and lashing out.
Those saying it's not a big deal if we lose out on him, I mostly disagree, as I’ve seen him live and he was absolutely outstanding at that level. The upside is we could bid for Kyle Walker if we miss out as he’s a VERY similar player and a year younger.
Neil McKinney, no doubt a more naunced view but in my defence the words ’just wait and see’ are like a red rag for an Evertonian. We should not be using such phrases against our own kind!
I went to the Spurs website to check out their squad. It was a rather unedifying experience on the whole, but I see them trumpeting the return of Pascal Chimbonda, right back, as well as listing at least 3 others in glowing terms to occupy the slot.
While these players are hardly world beaters, Everton have Tony Hibbert, solid professional but workmanlikish, to hold the fort on the right hand side.
So what do they want Naughton for?
Unless Harry Redknapp goes along with the theory that instilling insecurity amongst his squad will get them to perform better, or he’s got a whole of cash to spend, which is burning a hole in his wallet, I don’t really see their point.
Naughton would be a fool to even consider going there. I suspect at Everton he would start most games, or at least be given the opportunity to establish himself, and his game would improve. He will definitely do his share of defending, that’s for sure.
While these players are hardly world beaters, Everton have Tony Hibbert, solid professional but workmanlikish, to hold the fort on the right hand side.
So what do they want Naughton for?
Unless Harry Redknapp goes along with the theory that instilling insecurity amongst his squad will get them to perform better, or he’s got a whole of cash to spend, which is burning a hole in his wallet, I don’t really see their point.
Naughton would be a fool to even consider going there. I suspect at Everton he would start most games, or at least be given the opportunity to establish himself, and his game would improve. He will definitely do his share of defending, that’s for sure.
Ismael - Good job I didn’t use those words then, neither did anyone else, but what difference does it make either way? We do not affect the transfers from this site, however much we debate; so, whether you like it or not, you will have to wai... on second thoughts.
However, I do know where you’re coming from to an extent.
PS - I looked up "naunced" as I was at a loss.
Definition from the Urban dictionary - Naunce - Dancing stupidly, or skipping.
I am of course sure that you meant nuanced and it was just a typo, but the thought of me dancing stupidly whilst typing my first post did make me chuckle.
However, I do know where you’re coming from to an extent.
PS - I looked up "naunced" as I was at a loss.
Definition from the Urban dictionary - Naunce - Dancing stupidly, or skipping.
I am of course sure that you meant nuanced and it was just a typo, but the thought of me dancing stupidly whilst typing my first post did make me chuckle.
I can tell you for certain that Naughton will sign for Everton. I cannot reveal how I know because it'd be unfair on my source.
And to prove I was right I will show you an old mail that I commented on saying that we will sign Jo on loan.
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/08-09/comment/mailbag/mailbagitem.asp?submissionID=10679#comments
And to prove I was right I will show you an old mail that I commented on saying that we will sign Jo on loan.
http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/08-09/comment/mailbag/mailbagitem.asp?submissionID=10679#comments
I hope that you are right Tom, it would be nice to see a player move to further his career as opposed to his bank balance. Surely £½million a year is enough for anyone. Nice to see CITEHH linked to other defenders such as Terry who are more concerned with their wages.
I'm the opposite, Simon... I'm more worried that Terry will go to City and then Chelsea will move for Lescott. Chelsea of course can offer money and a realistic chance of silverware...
On Naughton, well, I hope he signs but if he does not it is not the end of the world... aside from Neville and Hibbert, Seamus Coleman looks quite promising according to those who saw him play.
While Kyle Naughton looks to be a great player, he is unproven in the Premier League. It wouldn’t be a disaster if we didn’t sign him as Phil Neville is very good playing right-back and he has us covered there for two seasons at least.
A few things need to be put into perspective.
Sheffield United are the owner of the player, it is in their interest to sell to the highest price — who would!!
Tottenham Hotspur are allowed to make a counter offer to Everton — I’ve just read on this website that we are ’apparently’ about to hijack Hamburg’s bid for Lorik Cana.
Within my organisation I work pretty closely with the sales department. If a salesman cannot close deals after a few weeks / months he/she is asked to move on — fair enough, they are crap. Now, Everton have had an offer accepted for nearly 4 days and have not closed the deal. If Tottenham buy the player and not Everton, it is not because Harry Redknapp is a gezza with a big wallet and a jelly chin — it will be because Kenwright and Elstone have failed to close the deal.
If we do not buy Naughton, the talented prospect, it will be as a direct result of Kenwright and Elstone being shit at their jobs.
Sheffield United are the owner of the player, it is in their interest to sell to the highest price — who would!!
Tottenham Hotspur are allowed to make a counter offer to Everton — I’ve just read on this website that we are ’apparently’ about to hijack Hamburg’s bid for Lorik Cana.
Within my organisation I work pretty closely with the sales department. If a salesman cannot close deals after a few weeks / months he/she is asked to move on — fair enough, they are crap. Now, Everton have had an offer accepted for nearly 4 days and have not closed the deal. If Tottenham buy the player and not Everton, it is not because Harry Redknapp is a gezza with a big wallet and a jelly chin — it will be because Kenwright and Elstone have failed to close the deal.
If we do not buy Naughton, the talented prospect, it will be as a direct result of Kenwright and Elstone being shit at their jobs.
Thomas, start talking sense lad. Naughton was abroad and has only returned today, hence why we were going to hold talks with him today and possibly a medical. Blaming Kenwright for Spurs trying to gazump the deal is just ridiculous
It will all come down to the player, who has expressed his fondness of us and with this era being all about player power, I hope to see him signing for us within the week (fingers crossed); however if we don’t sign him I will certainly not be blaming Kenwright, the fee was agreed and we were thrashing out personal terms but now it may seem that Sheff United have pulled a fast one on us........if the rumour is even true.
It will all come down to the player, who has expressed his fondness of us and with this era being all about player power, I hope to see him signing for us within the week (fingers crossed); however if we don’t sign him I will certainly not be blaming Kenwright, the fee was agreed and we were thrashing out personal terms but now it may seem that Sheff United have pulled a fast one on us........if the rumour is even true.
Tony — think clearly now. Think about the processes you need to move through in order to close a deal. Kenwright and Elstone directly impact this — they present the vision and goals of the club; they are responsible for closing a deal. The player is the commodity being exchanged — and why should Sheffield want the best price?
If Naughton doesn’t sign for Everton who is at fault??
If Naughton doesn’t sign for Everton who is at fault??
@ Braam Cupido... are you a Spurs supporter in disguise, lad? :p
Have been on the SUFC website and I can't find a single quote or shred of evidence to say Spurs have had a bid accepted!
Seeing as we are being pedantic, Neil McKinney: Mark Hill, second post last line, and I quote ’calm down and WAIT AND SEE’, oh snap, the magic words have been used. (Yes, you can look up some more words in the dictionary if you like because I’m from the spell check generation and my spelling suffers for it... are you really that bored to point out spelling errors?). I don't want to stoop but you lowered the bar on an otherwise civil debate.
Thomas, are you being serious?
If Naughton doesn’t sign, it will be because of Naughton not agreeing terms or if the Echo is to be believed (doubtful), then it will be Sheff Utd’s fault the deal fell through.
The team wanting to put forward an offer - Check
The offer is agreed - Check
The player (when he comes back from Malta) sits down and thrashes out personal terms - Che.... hang on! He was supposed to come today and do that but according to the Echo, Sheff Utd have now not allowed him.... Yeah I can see now why this is Everton’s fault, the deal should have been done within 3 days whilst the player was out of the country. Sack Moyes.
If Naughton doesn’t sign, it will be because of Naughton not agreeing terms or if the Echo is to be believed (doubtful), then it will be Sheff Utd’s fault the deal fell through.
The team wanting to put forward an offer - Check
The offer is agreed - Check
The player (when he comes back from Malta) sits down and thrashes out personal terms - Che.... hang on! He was supposed to come today and do that but according to the Echo, Sheff Utd have now not allowed him.... Yeah I can see now why this is Everton’s fault, the deal should have been done within 3 days whilst the player was out of the country. Sack Moyes.
Tom Campbell:
As much as I hope you’re right with your Naughton prediction, there's feck all in that Jo thread that suggests you had any inside info on it.
Perhaps it was only recently that Nostradamus bestowed his powers on you?
As much as I hope you’re right with your Naughton prediction, there's feck all in that Jo thread that suggests you had any inside info on it.
Perhaps it was only recently that Nostradamus bestowed his powers on you?
Simple rules of contract law:
1. Offer
2. Acceptance
3. Consideration
4. Intention to create legal relations
IF (and I say if — only newspapers back it up) we have had a bid accepted for Naughton, all 4 of the above have been satisfied. The offer is from us to buy the player. The acceptance is from Sheff Utd to accept this offer. The consideration is the agreed fee. Number 4 can be a minefield, but it is obvious that a sale like this is more than just buying a 10p chew.
Contracts can be agreed verbally, in written form, or even in implied terms. Therefore, IF we have indeed had a bid accepted, this would surely have been accepted via a fax/email/letter, and would stand in a court of law.
The complication which stands in the way of the deal being done is the third party (Naughton). As the item subject to the contract is a player, and he has his own rights, he must now negotiate a separate contract with EFC. Failure to do so would lead to the original agreed contract being aborted, with neither side blameworthy.
In summary, IF Sheff Utd have accepted a bid from us, they CANNOT renege on this unless the third party contract (between us and Naughton) breaks down. This does not mean they can’t accept equal or higher offers from other clubs.
Stewart, it would be nice if it was that straight forward but I doubt it is. There has to be something of value that has passed from Everton to Shef U to show the intention that Everton had to buy the player. This could be as much as a cup of coffee but unless Everton have actually laid down a payment of some kind then Shef U CAN renege on the deal (check your law books). In these instances of player transfers, it is a lot more like buying a house, where you can be gazumped at the very last minute.
This is a lesson for Moyes. Apparently it has taken him 3 weeks to get his act together... 3 weeks!
Now Spurs look like signing him today after entering the race on Sunday.
I like Moyes but this is poor... If you Snooze you Lose!
Now Spurs look like signing him today after entering the race on Sunday.
I like Moyes but this is poor... If you Snooze you Lose!
Stewart Littler - You are completely wrong. As I said in my earlier posts, a club can accept bids from more than one club. They then leave the clubs concerned to agree terms with the player. The player can choose where he wants to go.
I think you’ll find in football accepted offers are not legally binding. In business terms they are simply Letters of Intent. That's all. Contracts are not issued/signed until a) a price has been agreed b) personal terms have been agreeed and c) a medical has been passed.
Deals fall through all the time due to 1) a player not wanting to go / changing his mind 2) buying club failing to come up with money 3) the club chaning their mind as they lose another player etc.
If a club accepting a bid is legally binding, why have we never seen any clubs being sued for this
To blame Everton for this is pathetic.
We’ve been gazumped — end of.
Tom Campbell — where in that link are you predicting Jo will sign? At the time of that thread it was bleedin obvious he was signing.
I think you’ll find in football accepted offers are not legally binding. In business terms they are simply Letters of Intent. That's all. Contracts are not issued/signed until a) a price has been agreed b) personal terms have been agreeed and c) a medical has been passed.
Deals fall through all the time due to 1) a player not wanting to go / changing his mind 2) buying club failing to come up with money 3) the club chaning their mind as they lose another player etc.
If a club accepting a bid is legally binding, why have we never seen any clubs being sued for this
To blame Everton for this is pathetic.
We’ve been gazumped — end of.
Tom Campbell — where in that link are you predicting Jo will sign? At the time of that thread it was bleedin obvious he was signing.
Jason, how can it be three weeks? They have agreed on Friday, that was four days ago and he was going to speak to Naughton yesterday when he returned from Malta with Sheff Utd.
How is that three weeks? How is it Everton’s fault if Sheff Utd renege on the deal. The window has only been open for two weeks also.
Stewart, it is an implied term with businesses that there is always an intention to create a legal relationship. I have just took my Ilex Contracts law exam, so it’s still fresh in my mind
How is that three weeks? How is it Everton’s fault if Sheff Utd renege on the deal. The window has only been open for two weeks also.
Stewart, it is an implied term with businesses that there is always an intention to create a legal relationship. I have just took my Ilex Contracts law exam, so it’s still fresh in my mind
If you scroll down you will see that I said Jo will re-sign on loan. He re-signed last week.
Tom, in cases like this it might be worth letting the moderators (Michael, Lyndon et al) know how you know. They can vouch for you then without you having to make public your sources.
David Gallant - you must be joking pal. Everyone who knows me, knows that I recoil in revulsion at the name of Spurs. I have been known to require hospitalisation and constant reassurance, after exposure to the virus that is Tottenham.
The debacle re Naughton is a timely reminder of this. Ooh, my head..
The debacle re Naughton is a timely reminder of this. Ooh, my head..
I thought there was something sour about the thing on the Friday night when the response of Sheff Utd was put out. Both the manager and a club rep said that whilst a fee had been agreed nothing had been agreed with he player. They were quite clear on that point. And both of them said it.
When a Championship club sells to the Premier League, whatever deal is struck is always better for the player. Yes, an agreement has to be reached but it’s always a given that it will. I sat watching Kevin Blackwell on Sky sports news and what he said jarred. And then I read what Terry Robinsson said.
"We won’t be revealing the amount until any deal is done and our acceptance is conditional on Kyle reaching agreement with them over personal terms. "
Why wouldn’t he agree if there was no one else in for him?Their broadcast flushed out Spurs. They might have felt a bit naughty if they had told them on the QT.
Just check the Spurs site and there is nothing on there about Sheff Utd players only Veira.... bit strange???
Tony Williams, in response…
Legally no deal existed. Yes an agreement was made where promises were exchanged… blah, blah, blah…
Trietel on Contract Law will exhaust the subject (as well as your patience), but what it won’t teach you is that Contract Law is hardly ever a singular event. Contract law usually accompanies another… i.e. Employment law.
First and foremost Sheffield United has a contract with Naughton which must be honoured. Everton are not privy to this contract. He is in essence their player, they are his employers and we have no third party rights.
Therefore where two contracts conflict the former trumps the latter (Universal Finance v. Caldwell; 1 Queens Bench 525). Our offer is no more than fruit from the poisonous tree! Worthless.
Without reading the contract I dare say that something exists within the 4 corners of the document whereby Sheffield United have the final say on negotiations. Compare this to Jagielka’s release clause which transferred these rights to the player.
I am sure Everton were notified first, were not stood up, or left dangling in the wind. United simply exercised their contractual employment right to pull the plug on negotiations. Negotiations do not guarantee goods. It is merely stepping stone, haggling with the player (I dare say an ‘invitation to treat’). Ownership rights ultimately reside with United.
Point 2
On June 16 Everton made their first bid refusing to rise to the amount requested by Sheffield United (http.//soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/?id=655320&cc=5739). 3 weeks later a change of heart, a cash injection, who knows? But now we are ready to meet their valuation.
I love my club, I really do, but progress on this matter has been arse-achingly slow and now could amount to a waste of time and resources. Pienaar is waiting on a new contract… again 3 weeks have passed.
As I said on another thread being an Evertonian takes patience, however many a wrong step has been made from standing still!
Enjoy your day and I hope you pass your law exam.
Legally no deal existed. Yes an agreement was made where promises were exchanged… blah, blah, blah…
Trietel on Contract Law will exhaust the subject (as well as your patience), but what it won’t teach you is that Contract Law is hardly ever a singular event. Contract law usually accompanies another… i.e. Employment law.
First and foremost Sheffield United has a contract with Naughton which must be honoured. Everton are not privy to this contract. He is in essence their player, they are his employers and we have no third party rights.
Therefore where two contracts conflict the former trumps the latter (Universal Finance v. Caldwell; 1 Queens Bench 525). Our offer is no more than fruit from the poisonous tree! Worthless.
Without reading the contract I dare say that something exists within the 4 corners of the document whereby Sheffield United have the final say on negotiations. Compare this to Jagielka’s release clause which transferred these rights to the player.
I am sure Everton were notified first, were not stood up, or left dangling in the wind. United simply exercised their contractual employment right to pull the plug on negotiations. Negotiations do not guarantee goods. It is merely stepping stone, haggling with the player (I dare say an ‘invitation to treat’). Ownership rights ultimately reside with United.
Point 2
On June 16 Everton made their first bid refusing to rise to the amount requested by Sheffield United (http.//soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/?id=655320&cc=5739). 3 weeks later a change of heart, a cash injection, who knows? But now we are ready to meet their valuation.
I love my club, I really do, but progress on this matter has been arse-achingly slow and now could amount to a waste of time and resources. Pienaar is waiting on a new contract… again 3 weeks have passed.
As I said on another thread being an Evertonian takes patience, however many a wrong step has been made from standing still!
Enjoy your day and I hope you pass your law exam.
To criticise the club is muppetry of the highest order. Spurs bid is utterly ridiculous. Sheff U should break out the champagne as they off-loaded two proposects for £11m.
To put this into context, the £11m offered it is more than we paid for Joleon and Jags.
I think even if we were to pay the same as Spurs were offering for Naughton himself the deal for the other kid sounds very attractive to Sheff U.
Only Redknapp knows why he is buying two more full backs for such a hefty sum when he already has Hutton, Chimbonda, Essou-Akoto, Gunther and Gareth Bale.
Some people are getting worked up over getting Naughton and I don’t get it. Its not as if we were about to land Defour or Moutinho and missed out - now that would hurt. Getting gazumped on these deals does not particularly bother me.
I can understand Moyes frustration as he and his team have probably put alot of ground work in to capturing Naughton but frankly as a supporter if we miss out, I won’t shed a tear.
I think there are other full backs who could improve the side over Hibbert. And that’s my primary hope for transfers - that we improve the side. Naughton may have done this but so can several other RBs in England.
There maybe a few cut price deals to be had at Spurs, for starters...
To put this into context, the £11m offered it is more than we paid for Joleon and Jags.
I think even if we were to pay the same as Spurs were offering for Naughton himself the deal for the other kid sounds very attractive to Sheff U.
Only Redknapp knows why he is buying two more full backs for such a hefty sum when he already has Hutton, Chimbonda, Essou-Akoto, Gunther and Gareth Bale.
Some people are getting worked up over getting Naughton and I don’t get it. Its not as if we were about to land Defour or Moutinho and missed out - now that would hurt. Getting gazumped on these deals does not particularly bother me.
I can understand Moyes frustration as he and his team have probably put alot of ground work in to capturing Naughton but frankly as a supporter if we miss out, I won’t shed a tear.
I think there are other full backs who could improve the side over Hibbert. And that’s my primary hope for transfers - that we improve the side. Naughton may have done this but so can several other RBs in England.
There maybe a few cut price deals to be had at Spurs, for starters...
Just to add my input to this. It seems that the reason Sheff Utd want him to go to Spurs is not necessarily for more cash, it’s that the deal is a joint deal with Kyle Walker that would allow Walker to rejoin them on loan for the season. I think that’s why they want the whole deal, not just a higher cash bid for Naughton.
Recent developments over Kyle Naughton are merely a microcosm of the hypocrisy and decadence that is increasingly smothering competitive football.
Sheffield United publicly accepted a good offer from Everton, in fact they went further in explaining that they held out for a good offer and only allowed the player to speak to us because they got what was right for Sheffield Utd.
The idea that, having agreed this and publicly acknowledge it, they subsequently accept a gazumping offer from Spurs and even bar Everton from further dialogue, is distasteful rubbish. But the rank hypocrisy compared to their public bleatings over the Tevez affair leave a noxious odour.
What will now happen, more than likely, is that Everton will maintain its positon (which is both honourable & sensible) and young Naughton may end up with Happy/Whinging Harry at Spurs.
What this situation reveals, in all its squalour, is what modern British life in general, and football in particular, has come to represent. Only one thing matters and long-held virtues such as fairness, honesty and trust are now just sneered at.
Some people prefer to join 'em. I say fuck 'em. Fuck Sheffield Utd, fuck Redknapp, fuck Man City et al. I'd rather a dignified loss than a squalid victory.
I agree with you, Alan, every summer that passes, the more and more football is dragged to new depths.
But try and look at it from Sheff Utd’s point of view. They still feel very aggrieved by the way they were treated over the Tevez affair. Only Dave Whelan at Wigan stood up and supported their cause even though every other football fan outsaide of West Ham could see how unfairly they’d been treated. Our dickhead chairman stayed quiet so why do Sheffield Utd owe us anything? Especially as we took Jags off them for a pittance because of their relegation.
But try and look at it from Sheff Utd’s point of view. They still feel very aggrieved by the way they were treated over the Tevez affair. Only Dave Whelan at Wigan stood up and supported their cause even though every other football fan outsaide of West Ham could see how unfairly they’d been treated. Our dickhead chairman stayed quiet so why do Sheffield Utd owe us anything? Especially as we took Jags off them for a pittance because of their relegation.
They’re still suffering the consequences of their relegation and struggling financially too so why shouldn’t they get the best possible deal for their players? Look at the amount we all think Lescott should go for if Everton decide to sell. Therefore are we any different? Or do you think we should sell Lescott for half the amount he might go for just because it’s the honourable thing to do?
It is Redknapp that I think is the biggest prick in all of this because he has shown the least respect for a fellow manager by playing his hand so late on. If Spurs really wanted Naughton, why not bid earlier? It’s almost the same as Souness at Newcastle, having no real building plan with his transfers and making sure his rivals can’t strengthen. My hope in all of this is Naughton digs his heels in and demands a move to us.
Collateral contracts, invitation to treat... even Treteil gets a mention... another divergent yet entertaining thread.
Good work.
Good work.
Oh and by the way, I would assume that offers for football players are given the legal protection of ’subject to contract’ - the contract in question being the players constructive contract of employment.
Until this subsequent contract is agreed then there is no agreement. It’s not ’distasteful’ or ’decadent’....it is simply the way the world works - from buying houses to going to the cinema.
Until this subsequent contract is agreed then there is no agreement. It’s not ’distasteful’ or ’decadent’....it is simply the way the world works - from buying houses to going to the cinema.
I just don't understand why Naughton would ever want to choose Spurs over Everton, if it came down to it. You just have to look at Spurs record with defenders over the years. Just look at what has happened to Gareth Bale and Alan Hutton, two decent players ruined by Spurs.
But when you look at Everton in recent years they have had one of the best defences in the league. Also Lescott, Baines and Jags have been called into the England squad. It makes you wonder why he would choose Spurs!
I have to toast you on that Ciarán. Excellent topical debating, excellent post! Jay Harris delivers again, ToffeeWeb is by far the superior brand…
And I’m still laughing at “muppetry of the highest order.” Brilliant!
And I’m still laughing at “muppetry of the highest order.” Brilliant!
They’ve been looking for a striker - why not offer them Vic on loan for the season on top of the previous offer? Gives us a chance to find out if he’s going to cut it cos I can't see him getting many games for us this season.
Alan & Brian, the last line of my post was "This does not mean they can’t accept equal or higher offers from other clubs."
Alan, if I agree to sell you my car, and you arrive to pick it up only for me to say ’Sorry, I’ve changed my mind’, you have the right to sue me. However, I also take your point regarding houses, where my knowledge is much more limited due to complicated land and equity laws.
Brian, I was agreeing with your point in a way - how am I completely wrong? If the player chooses Spurs, then end of matter. But if he were to choose Everton, only for Sheff Utd to then refuse to conclude the transfer due to Spurs offering more, I’m confident we’d have a legal challenge.
Alan, if I agree to sell you my car, and you arrive to pick it up only for me to say ’Sorry, I’ve changed my mind’, you have the right to sue me. However, I also take your point regarding houses, where my knowledge is much more limited due to complicated land and equity laws.
Brian, I was agreeing with your point in a way - how am I completely wrong? If the player chooses Spurs, then end of matter. But if he were to choose Everton, only for Sheff Utd to then refuse to conclude the transfer due to Spurs offering more, I’m confident we’d have a legal challenge.
Just to add, there is nothing on the SUFC OS to say that a bid has been accepted from Spurs - I know others have mentioned this too. There is a statement saying they have accepted a bid from us. There is nothing on our OS (not unusual - it only usually announces a signing).
It all smacks of yet more lazy journalism (a la Lescott) - ever noticed how when Villa for example are linked with a player, the report will say ’Everton and Spurs are also interested’. He’ll be a Blue by the end of the week, and if he isn’t, as others have said, I won’t be shedding any tears.
It all smacks of yet more lazy journalism (a la Lescott) - ever noticed how when Villa for example are linked with a player, the report will say ’Everton and Spurs are also interested’. He’ll be a Blue by the end of the week, and if he isn’t, as others have said, I won’t be shedding any tears.
Stewart, sorry to be pedantic but you can try and sue anyone for anything these days. My point was about the consideration. Just making an offer of £4 million does not constitute as consideration. Putting contract law simply, something of value must actually change hands to show your intention. Like I said, this could be as much as a cup of coffee so, unless Everton have actually paid Sheffield Utd something, there is absolutely no contract — therefore there is no right for Everton to sue.
Alan, no worries; however, point 4 in my original post was ’intention to create legal relations’. This is usually inferred by the seriousness of the offer for whatever contract is being sought. Point 3 was consideration, and whilst this is key to completing the contract, it does not have to be in place prior to the contract ’existing’.
In the case of the car, I offer to buy it for £5k. You accept. There is evidence of this (emails, etc). I make the journey to pick the car up, showing my intention to pay and create a legal relationship (contract). You change your mind. Under UK law, I would be able to seek remedies in court consisting of an enforcement order (you are forced to complete the contract you agreed) and/or damages.
Now unless contract law has changed since 2004 (when I completed my law degree), I am confident this is correct. I also accept that the sale of a player is highly different — however, if the bid has indeed been accepted, and the club and players agree terms, I am struggling to see how Sheff Utd can stop the transfer happening — if there are any more learned persons out there who can correct me, please do.
On a side note, "reports" now suggest that we have met the offer for both Kyles!! What a load of bullshit silly season is!!
Stewart, It’s quite easy to avoid acceptance while collateral issues are to be resolved... and the player agreeing terms of the constructive contract would be a major constrcutive issue.
It is not as simple as offer, acceptance, consideration and legal relations.
It is not as simple as offer, acceptance, consideration and legal relations.
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1 Posted 13/07/2009 at 15:01:47
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A sham!