Hmmm... James, I wonder... have you read any of our recent threads?

James, you say only the games this season, would they include the 4-0 drubbing of AEK, the 4-0 drubbing of Hull and the 3-0 drubbing of Blackburn, the same team who beat Villa not long after?

It is a strange time that we are seeing so many posts criticising the team, we are in a mini unbeaten run, granted none of the teams were any good but when we are without our creative players we usually lose these gritty tight affairs. I say criticising the team, it is a joyous time for most of the posters who seemingly have a personal vendetta against Moyes for not making the players who are apparantly useless in their eyes storm all that is before them.

One only has to look at our neighbours who have gone on their worst losing streak in 2 decades (5 if ManU beat them this weekend) to see what happens when your top players are missing... and they are only missing two — we have had to contend with at least 3 since half way through last season.

People have views, it would be boring if they didn’t differ, but I stand aghast at the outpouring of what is close to hatred against our team, mostly directed at our manager, who is doing an alright job given the constraint of money and injuries he has had to deal with.

I sort of feel the same here. We don’t half play some poor football at times...but yet have the best group of players we’ve had in years! Go figure!

What a load of rubbish - along with the other articles about losing pride etc.

How can this period possibly be the most disinterested about Everton you’ve ever felt? Get a bit of persepective. Remind yourself of the entire 1990s, Walter Smith, the appalling 2004 season, consecutive 4-0 losses over Christmas 2006.

We need to wake up. We are miles ahead of our league position this time last season, runners up in the cup and we are playing the cream of Europe tomorrow. We’re beginning to sound like those lot across the park. Urgh.

We’ve had a blip - but we’ve played 9 games. Changing manager now would be suicide - quality will out in the end. I’m going to Portugal tomorrow - I can’t wait and I’m hoping it won’t be anything like the library atmosphere against Wolves. Come on fans get behind them for gods sake.

Be carefuly what you wish for. You might get it.

Charlton and Alan Curbishly
Newcastle and Sir Bobby Robson/Sam Allardyce
Spurs and Martin Jol
Leeds
PL is full of tales of clubs getting rid of managers for "lacking ambition" and going nowhere.

I am really curious what is going to happen at Boro and Gareth Southgate

Why do people have such short memories? Instead of moaning about Moyes im going to have a moan at our fans.

Some of our fans, especially on this site are the biggest bunch of negative, fickle, glass half empty fans i have ever heard. They have no sense of reality, they are deluded.

They only seem content when having a knee jerk reaction when a depleted everton team is trying to grind out results untill the cavalry arrives.

In the circumstances Moyes and his team are doing well, they are getting the best out of a bad situation. All you sunday league and arm chair managers have no clue what you are talking about. David Moyes has won 3 manager of the season awards for a reason, because his peers and the people in the know in football can appreciate the incredible achievement that Moyes has pulled off over the years.

Everyone has their own opinions and ideas of how things should be done but only Moyes has consitantly punched above his weight, there is a long way to go in this season, and just because Villa City spurs et al have had better starts than us it doesnt mean they are going to finish better than us. Remember its a marathon not a sprint. Start supporting your team as fans are supposed to, its starting to get boring now.

I have said frequently this season that at present we don’t have the players that will get the results certainly not until certain players are back. A great team has strength in all positions but Everton don’t. Most of us can see this judging by the majority of adverse comments about Hibbert,Osman,Jo and Fellaini. Even Cahill apart from the odd goal has not been impressive.Mobility, speed, passing and tackling is a let down too often with the Everton team this season.We all hope that Jags,Arteta and a fully fit Yaks can improve the situation in due course but if Moyes keeps faith in his "favourites" then we will remain an "also ran" We will be very lucky to get anything from today’s game in Portugal on recent form.

Chris it certainly makes you wonder who these people are who can defend our shite style of play season after season. Moyes is well aware if he plays a defensive 4-5-1 we will finish reasonably high up the league - will never win anything of course, but he will get awards and praise and job security. That seems to be enough for him.

I am convinced the individuals you name don't actually go to the games but simply watch 3 minutes on MOTD and think wow we are an attacking side.

James - I couldn’t agree more with your thread. I think the guys who have responded so far just want a pop at you and don’t really empathise with the nature of the thread. Calm down lads... we’re all a bit sensitive at the moment (well, at least me and James are!)

I too am actually becoming disinterested in what used to be my passion... Football and, specifically, EFC. Before people start calling me fickle, please instead, think of something a bit more creative…

Jim - I agree totally and I do remember "the entire 1990s, Walter Smith, the appalling 2004 season, consecutive 4-0 losses over Christmas 2006."... However, I think James is in the same psychological place as me — total and utter despair that, for the third season running, we have failed to capitalise on a strong finish to the previous season; despair that we had to wait ANOTHER entire transfer window AND wait until we sold Lescott before we could by anyone; despair that the guys we have signed will "take time to bed in"; despair at drawing/losing to utterly shite teams.

It pains me to say it — I hate the fact — but I am genuinely losing interest. My job is stressful enough, why put myself through the pain of expecting more out of Everton? Why put myself through the pain of hanging on to every piece of bullshit that comes out of Bill’s fat mouth?

Anyway, back to the point — I agree with James’ post, but KENWRIGHT is at fault — not Moyes. Kenwright, in my eyes, has a lot to answer for — the guys a fucking disgrace and has no place running a football club.

Ian Tunstead... Well said. Couldnt of put it better myself. The amount of negative comments actually drains you when you come onto this site, I have officially stopped and don't look forward coming on here anymore. Never give credit when credit's due always moaning and complaining and the worst about it is that there are so many Toffees reading this that it is starting to affect the mood of the support. Do what I do, dont bother reading or commenting unless its warranted, look forward to the match and support our lads as best you can. People on here will never change.

Man alive, what a load of nonsense. I was very much disinterested under Walter Smith when we played outrageously poor football and lost every week. Six years later, we are regulars in Europe, we’ve been to the FA Cup final, we win more than we lose and we know how to play football.

True, I wish we would play the good stuff with more regularity, but you’re blind if you think we don’t know how to play. The football against AEK was better than anything I’ve seen anybody other than Arsenal produce this season.

To me, it seems a few people are taking things for granted at the moment. Our progress in the last six years has been staggering, compared to any other side in the league (apart from those who bought success).

Just to clarify I did not intend to provoke and I can appreciate opinion seems to be pretty polarized regarding this subject. I failed to make the point MIck states that if you do indeed watch the whole game & not just the highlights on MOTD you will see what a horrible boring event it is. Are fans really happy with the football being played here? :S

To Tony & Jim, I appreciate what your saying but surely a drumming of Hull should not be the highlight of any successful season. Perhaps if 4-0 happens against Benfica I’ll rethink but I cant see it.

The true failure happens every summer & I’m sick of this club annually shooting itself in the foot.

Also, thanks for posting Alec always nice to know you're not alone!

I am a big fan of Moyes and think we have played good football at times over the last two or three seasons. It is frustrating that we are not doing it week in week out, but very few teams manage that.

I know it is the "same old excuse" but we do not have the money of other teams so it will take us longer to acheive the squad quality and depth that Man City, Chelsea, Manure etc etc can just go out and buy.

If you look at the squad and performance that Moyes inherited and what is there now I feel he has done an exceptional job. Have we reached a plateau? Is that what is frustrating you and others alike, James?

Well I would ask you - given a straight choice between this season’s squad and last seasons; which would you take?

Haha thanks for the support, Philip and Chris, that was a great shout, very amusing. The thing is a lot of of fans do seem to have the "grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome. No matter what Moyes does he can't win, if he doesn't get beat on the football pitch he will be slaughtered off the pitch by the fans for not being more bold and attacking; if he goes out all guns blazing on the field, we will lose more than we win and be fighting relagation and will still get abuse.

I try to be balanced in what I say and weigh up each argument, I agree with a lot of what the posters say who are complaining but you should also put yourself in Moyes's shoes and try to see it from his point of view. Hibbert and Osman are squad players that will only play during an injury crisis which is the situation we are in. Crap/average players = crap average results. Simple.

It is no coincidence that performance levels dropped when Arteta got injured, the players rose to the task, especially Pienaar... and now once again it is no coincidence that, from the moment he got injured against Portsmouth, we have struggled. But when he is back the performances will improve slightly and when Yakubu is fully fit and Arteta and Jaggs returns we will begin to destroy team by 5s, 6s and 7s.

Tony Williams, I think David Moyes is vastly over-rated by many Evertonians. I believe we could have had more success and better football under a different coach. These are my genuine views.

However, I don’t hate David Moyes; I believe he is a decent bloke and a man of integrity and I’m sure most of the criticism of him on this site is not personal. People are entitled to express forthright views on this site.

It strikes me reading various threads on TW that some people think that we should have cultured, slick passing, pacy creative players in every position on the pitch, as well as on the bench and in the reserves. Time for a reality check - even Real, Man U and Barca struggle to do that.

DM has tried to build a team with a solid foundation and a bit of attacking flair in the middle. Unfortunately that attacking flair consists of Arteta, Peanut and the final piece of the Jigsaw, Billy. 2 injured and the third still adjusting to pace in the premiership. He then has a box to box midfielder in Felli and a holding midfielder in Rodwell/Neville/Heitinger.

Now, not being psychic I don’t know if he intends to continue with 5 in the midfield once he has a full strength side back but he certainly has the personnel available. Personally I hope to see the mythical midfield side that often gets mentioned on here,

Howard
Hibbert
Jags
Distin
Baines
Piennar
Arteta
Rodwell
Billy
Saha
Yak

After all, isn’t that the team that DM has assembled. With a bench of Felli, Cahill, Heitinger, Jo and Nash, we could be really strong. But until then, we might have to endure some pretty poor performances and grind out some results. Because of the lack of money DM has had to bring players in very slowly but looking at that team I think he is nearly there. I think he probably did bring JH in to replace Hibbo and Felli was due to fill the Rodders role for another year or so but his originals are proving better than expected, especially Rodders.

Until we have seen what DM does with his preferred midfield we cannot say how he intends to play. We can only comment on how he is being forced to play without half of his first choice midfield.

And before anyone says that Felli was available against Wolves, he had his wisdom teeth midweek, he was not fully fit. So DM did what any sensible manager would have done. He put him on the bench in case he was needed, but would have preferred not to use him, thus giving him more time to recover. Not an option if you start him and take him off later.

Also make up your minds if Rodwell is a defender, as is the popular opinion this week, or is a midfielder, as everyone was screaming a few weeks back.

Finally, read the comments on here http://www.skysports.com/football/match_report/0,19764,11065_3190175,00.html

I read this and realised that we are sounding just like them, Alan Whyte for Doddy anyone?

Andy Crooks, if Moyes is "over-rated" by many Evertonians he must also be grossly over-rated by his fellow professionals. After all, he has now been voted LMA Manager of the Year 3 times in the last 7 years.

Personally, I suspect these guys have a greater understanding of the job Moyes is doing than those who claim we’d do better without him. These guys have an acute understanding of how difficult it is to consistently compete with the big boys when your annual spending should, in theory, place you somewhere around 14th in the league.

Iv had enough of this and all the rediculous ultra negative comments so im going to do the opposite but be just as rediculous.

If Alonso is worth £30m then Arteta must be worth £35m.
If Lescotte is worth £20+m then our player of the season jaggs must be worth something in that region.
Yakubu must be worth at least £15m.
Pienar must be woth near £10 by now if bently was going for that amount.
Fellaini was bought for £15m

All these players were either not fully fit or not available for the Wolves game, thats nearly £100m of player missing, and not even counting our captain. If you take that much talent away from a team what do you expect to happen?

Interesting how people suggest Moyes has had little money at his disposal and in the same post go on to suggest that his record 15mill signing is bench material...

Ciaran, is this the same £15m player that we didn’t actually pay £15m for? We pay so much up front and then a packet of polos each week for a millenium. The one that was actually paid for by the sale of AJ? One step forward, one step backwards?

Makes me laugh though. All over the big websites it’s all about Rafa Benitez having a bad injury crisis at the moment! Flippin’ heck what have we had for the last 2 years at least!!!??? Yet we get no mention or credit.

Ciaran, being one of those who classed Felli as bench material, you are quite right. It is a bit strange. It could be taken one of three ways if you ask me.
1. DM made a mistake and should never have bought Felli

2. DM intends to play Felli alongside Rodders and Mikky in the middle of a five man midfield dropping one of his strikers.

3. DM bought Felli as a holding midfielder aiming to develop Rodders slowly alongside him whilst or as a CB and wasn’t expecting Rodders to shine quite so brightly this season.

I assume you’re not disputing the lack of money at the club, more the why spend £15m on Felli, or why are people so thick as to put him on the bench?

it was a stupid team selection against Wolves , does anybody seriously think not ?

People are also daring to criticise Moyes and get shouted down - many have commented on how we put everybody in the box to defend every corner , this is an example of his bad play, particularly when he has been manager for so long. To reply along the lines of "well he’s won manager of the season 3 / 7 times" does not answer the question.

Peter, that is actually one of my many pet hates. What use is the Yak in our box?, remember he lost the ball in the Derby and cost us a goal just outside the area.

I understand Cahill, as he has clearly numerous corners, but the Yak. The fella can hardly run so why have him in our box. Leave him on the half way line so they have to have two defenders there watching him.

Yes its been a real chore the last few years boys...attending semi-finals and finals, travelling to Spain, Italy, Belgium etc , etc for those European trips.

Fuck me, I wish we could go back to the good old days.

Yes Moyes has made things a whole lot better for us. As a club we now have a far better team than we had when he took over. And during that time Moyes has been paid handsomley. All Everton fans appreaciate what he has done under trying circumstances however that does not mean we cant want more, that we shouldnt expect a better quality of football to enjoy. If we have no ambition to be better we’ll never be better if we settle.

That's my gripe with Moyes he has achieved a lot but I never just want to say that’ll do each season I want more evey year just like the fans of Utd, Chelsea etc want its called ambition or hope. So while i am very thankfull for all he’s done thats not going to stop me critiscising him if I think he deserves it and if you think the current standard of football we are playing is good and above complaint well I am shocked.

I guess at the end of the day it is down to expectations.

Do you expect Everton to play as well without Jags, Arteta, Piennar, Yobo, and Neville as you do when we are at full strength?

Can people stop referring to Fellaini as a £15m signing? We all know full well that his actual price was nearer £9m. As pointed out above, he was bought using the AJ money.

Off topic, has anyone read this - seriously funny.

http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s6i59916

New boy in town, could never be arsed giving an opinion on here but I felt the urge to have a little say on current ongoings at the club . Gotta agree with some of the lads on here that the negativity that spouts from this site can be harshly unjust at times but I do feel certain amount of frustration building myself after going to the game week-in, week-out and I thought id have my say and hey! — without critiscm nobody would ever improve.

I love Davey Moyes and totally respect where he has taken us thru his time in charge at the club but I do feel he can over complicate matters on the pitch. Its simple for me, FORMATION — our approach to games (especially in the Prem) is to be blunt far too negative & predictable for long periods in the game.

The fact that we adopt this ’clear your lines approach’ ’4-5-1 system’ is ultimately boring to watch and doesnt seem to vary no matter who we are playing. It makes it very easy for teams to suss us out and pin us back in our own half for long periods of the game but also suggests either a major lack in confidence, belief or ability?

TACTICS - again over the past few years we have adoted this safety first approach in many of the games we play, which to be fair has grinded out results for us over the past few seasons and basically got us to where we are today so not all bad, infact very good, as they say a wins a win!!

Playing people out of position though is never the best idea especially when it comes to tinkering with the midfield as that is where the game is won and lost in my eyes, it is certainly where the strings can pulled anyways. It still seems to me that if Moyes doesnt have Arteta/Pienaar available then he is never 100% sure of who to partner up in centre mid. (It took him an eternity and various injuries to realise that center mid was Arteta’s best suited role, he is and should have always been the heartbeat of the team and in my eyes altho did well, was wasted at times being played out wide.)

To get to the point, does Moyes still not know his squad in its entirity? And who will be effective in what position? It's simple for me Strikers are strikers, midfielders are midfielders and defenders are defenders. I wonder how many of our first eleven are actually playing in their preffered position?

Now I know that when injuries come into play you are going to have to look for some versatility but I have strong views on playing people out of position and the negative effect it can have.

Also does Moyes pick his team based on individual performance? (As good as your last game approach? I dont think so). Lets' say for instance and you may say this is harsh but if Ossie has a bad game (right midfield which clearly isnt his best position he needs to be in the centre with the ball at his feet, especially as we have a weakened first 11, he has some creativity in his locker but struggles out wide at times) he should be saying basically if your performances don't improve then I will be giving Gossling a go next week wether its Ossie’s preffered position or not he needs to know that his position is under threat. This would either get more of out Ossie as I think he can be lazy at times, and if not and he is replaced after another poor performance & then at least it gives somebody else a chance to shine. If it doesnt work then Ossie comes back in and so forth, our squad is not that small anymore to adopt a slight rotation policy if players aren't performing. Nobody should be untouchable.

So I think the whole point that Im trying to make is Id like to see a little more tactical awareness, variety in the play, some desire to win games certainly against the lesser teams. A more attacking balanced side and I think this is still achievable with our current squad and players available at present. Moyes and the players themselves tho have to show the belief that they are good enough to go out there & actually turn teams over.

I think the emphasis need to be on scoring goals sometimes rather than not conceeding goals but ofcourse there has to be a balance and it seems rather than to show some bollocks & desire to try something new Moyes would rather stick with the tried and tested, clear your lines, percentage play which for me is the easy way out. The shit houses way if you will, you have to take risks to win games so come on Moyes show us all that you can achieve it. The is clearly more quality in this squad than we have had for a long long time so please make the best use of it!!.

Anyways regardless of team selection, formation, tactics I will continue to give full support to all the boys on match days no matter who is selected but I do go the match with the expectation of being entertained and seeing some quality and we shouldnt settle for anything less!!!! Rant over!! I just had to get that off my chest even if I am waffling at times!!! lol COYB’S!!!!!

I think Moyes has took us to our peak. We cannot compete with Spurs, Villa, City and the top 4. We dont have the money. I don't think there's anyone else out there who would make that much difference. If Moyesy would just change his ways slightly, a little less cautious while we’re at home would be a start. Try not to play players out of position when there are others who could cover. If he did these two things I think it would help both in results and lift the spirit around the place.

One other gripe is the transfer policy. I'm not talking about rumours etc and who we should go for but why are we bringing players in at the end of the window. Moyes even said last season it couldn't happen again — yet it did. We have probably cemented ourselves in the middle of the league for the next couple of years with the squad we have. Enjoy Europe while we’ve got it and let's keep supporting. There's no viable alternative — unless we sell out to a rich investor but don't think this will happen until we’re up for sale.

Steven Connor : "Fuck me, I wish we could go back to the good old days."

Me too! Everton were once called The School of Science & played "beautiful football". Oh, yeah - sometimes we even used to win the odd bit of silverware. Those old days were good indeed.