Agree with every word, Joey, great post. It's a pity we couldn't all be as positive as you and see the bigger picture.

Sorry Joey but you need to rid yourself of the idea that Spurs, Villa or anyone else for that matter, were tracking our targets.

The scouting systems of Prem clubs are now at a stage when any kid anywhere in the country with an ounce of talent is known to them all.
When these kids become available you can usually gauge how highly they are regarded by the standing of the clubs chasing his signature, if he is very top draw, the Sky 4 + City are in, if he’s very good but still has a few questions to answer, the Villa’s and the Tottenhams are always hovering.

Its not dissimilar to Ebay, the opening bid is only ever the opening bid, usually a cheeky one made by someone - Everton - hoping nobody else is paying too much attention.

Its the winning bid, whether it be wages or fee, that establishes the true market value

Put simply, we couldn’t afford Delph or Naughton

Dave, i think that was the point that Joey was making. At the end of the day, our lack of money is the root of the problem.

Spot on Joey.

Joey, you’re wrong. This time last year was exactly the same. We were not playing beautiful football. A poor summer in the transfer market led to a disastrous start to the season. We had pretty much the same points, we’d been knocked out of Europe having been outplayed by a Belgian side. This culminated in possibly the worst I’ve ever seen Everton play away at Wigan. Moyes again had reverted to type by us playing very defensive and relying heavily on the long ball. The sense of deja vu is amazing.

There are a lot of things wrong at Everton. Finances are one problem and Moyes’ one-dimensional tactics and over reliance on the long ball are another.

’On a final note, I want to point out, not even a year ago, many and most of us were admitting we were playing beautiful attractive football.’
-----------------------

We’ve played a handful of games that can be described like this under Moyes... we played a couple last year. The hoofball and winning ugly was most definitely in a big majority.
You’re being disingenuous with your words...

Naughton and Delph.
I’d forgotten them - how are they doing?

I think our (small - granted) squad is better than recent performances suggest. It makes me laugh that people are including Osman and Neville as missing regulars when the same people couldn't wait to ship them out!

The team that played Benfica and Bolton should NOT have lost in that manner and I blame David Moyes for his poor motivational technique in highlighting the fixture list, undermining the confidence of the replacements by bemoaning the injuries to first choice players, and publically attacking in the press players who have made mistakes on the pitch.

Yes, we need more money and Yes, we need more quality, but come on — Bolton, Wolves and Stoke?? Even our "second string" should hammer them!

I was a Moyes man but I’m losing faith lately... There, I’ve said it!

Mark read my small club mentality thread. Apparently we shouldn’t be expecting to beat Bolton or Wolves or Stoke. We have to be ’realistic’.

Alan, I’ve read it and I could not believe the responses that you got about Stoke and Bolton etc. If that is a true reflection of how our fans view us then we really are in trouble because unless we start forcing some issues then we are knackered!!!

Mark,

We don’t have a god given right to beat anybody. The Premier League is so competitive that we simply cannot expect to beat a team because we have a misplaced superiority complex...

However, what we can expect is for highly paid professionals to be able to do the simple things on a football pitch — and they haven’t being fulfilling this requirement..

FFS stop making excuses for what is shte management, shite tactics, shaite performance and shite excuses.

Moyes is a problem, he cannot change tactics, is clueless how to change a game.

Injuries happen to everyone, we have more than other teams, why?? Piss poor preparation for the season springs to mind, pre season clearly did not push, stretch or inspire the players and improve their fitness, stamina. Oh and yes this is the manager's fault, who else is there to blame?

Mark Murpy I dont think many teams 2nd string unless top 4 where they have the depth and quality should be so confident of beating another prem team.

I wouldnt even call the it our 2nd string team the last couple of games its been more like our 4th choice team or at best playing our 2nd and 3rd choice players out of position.

I agree with the article it is bad luck and bad finances more than any blame on the manager. I think we do play good football when people are fit and I think Moyes would sign gifted footballers if he had enouh money. He doesn’t and so tries to plug gaps — hence the reason why our squad is littered with utility players and why when a couple of men aren’t fit — Arteta and Pienaar — we struggle to create.

Here’s a mad thought - maybe our current malaise isn’t mono-causal? I.e. bad luck, terrible financial problems AND some poor managerial choices? Throw it all together and you end up with a giant mess. Oh look, that is our current situation!

Oh, and add another factor - some of our players being off form. It happens, sometimes player have a shocker. Throw it into the mix and we have an even bigger mess! Hurrah!

Apologies if I seem flippant, but I’ve gone past getting wound up and have possibly gone a little ga-ga.

It is bad luck that we have a number of players injured.It is not bad luck that we have no creative players to select.We only have two such players anyway,one of whom ,we all knew would not be available until Nov. at the earliest.
The other one,Pienaar,is now also injured.One would not need a crystal ball to foresee this situation arising but to start a season of maybe 50/60 games with one creative mid. is simply down to bad management.

"I wouldnt even call the it our 2nd string team the last couple of games its been more like our 4th choice team or at best playing our 2nd and 3rd choice players out of position. "

Ian,
Howard, Hibbert, Distin, Fellaini, Rodwell, Cahill, Saha & Jo are all what i would consider first team players. Thats 8 who would all walk into Boltons etc side, dont you agree?

I agree we are missing Pienaar & Yobo recently but the team we have left should still be able to rise above the dross of recent games, surely?

And if Hibbert is out of position at centre back whilst Rodwell is available whose decision is that?

I’m not sure that any manager playing an ultra negative 4-5-1 can ever be accused of wanting to play good football? When we did, it was despite Moyes not because of him; it did happen but it was the exception not the rule, The rule was grinding out 1-0 wins virtue of a few goals from the least expected quarters and a great, great defence courtesy Jagielka and Lescott (they really were good together). We have neither now, Cahill is a bit of a busted flush and as a result we are a in my eyes a potential relegation prospect. I sincerely hope that Arteta and Jagielka back will restore us but they may be half a season from their previous form if ever. I desperately hope that I’m proven wrong but just now I see no bottom for Everton FC, we are in disarray and in that respect tonights game is only a sishow for both teams.

No way Jo Rodwell and probably Hibbert are starters. Ok Howard is a deffiinte starter and in his correct position. I would have Neill Heitinga or Neville ahead of Hibbert but he was played out of position. It could be argued Distin would be behind Yobo and jaggs in the pecking order.

Arteta and/or Neville would be ahead of Rodwell. Cahill or Fellaini would probably be in the team but i dont think they would both play together if everyone was fit and Cahill was out of position and we dont know whar Fellainis position is.

Yes Saha is in form but it could also be argued if the Yak was fully fit and it form that he would be starting a head of Saha.

Of those players you mention only Howard Distin and Saha played in their true positions.

Obviously Moyes does not trust Rodwell to play at CB which goes back to my first point that Rodwell and Hibbert wouldnt be in the team in the first place

Yes they would walk into Boltons side but only in their true positions. So the only ones that would walk into their team are: Howard and Saha, perhaps Rodwell and Fellaini, i would also like to see more of Neill before i decide.

Alan/Mark - guessing that would be the Bolton who put the shitters up Utd the other week, the Wolves who drew with Villa, or the Stoke that beat Spurs then? ... as Ciaran says, no team has a God given right to beat any other.

The last two performances and results have been poor. But anybody who simply brushes aside the atrocious injury situation or even, quite ridiculously, labels it ’overstated’, are IMO deluded. Moyes is right to be disappointed with his defenders after Sunday. 3 of them were signed this summer, and they let the team down. But we can’t lose sight of the fact that this above-mentioned fact means that not one single member of the defence which kept a clean sheet at the Reebok last season started in the same position on Sunday, nor last Thursday. That is BOUND to affect the amount of goals you concede, especially with 2 of the 6 players who played in the defence carved apart over the last week making their debuts.

Unfortunately, I fear it will only get worse over the next couple of weeks. 5 of the players out are a month or more away from a return. One would hope at least 3 of Yobo, Baines, Pienaar, Osman, Bilyaletdinov & Yakubu are fit for the weekend, with luck (ha!) Rodwell, Cahill & Jo are looking tired, pissed off and woeful in that order, but there is nobody left to replace them. And Spurs, Villa, Benfica (not again!) and West Ham in the next 13 days with a tired and battered squad isn’t exactly simple.

Am I pissed off? Yeah, a lot. So what am I gonna do about it? Sing Kenwright Out? Yeah, just point me in the direction of the guy waiting to take over (when you’re ready?). Sing Moyes Out? As above. Boo the players? What’s the point in that? Not like there’s someone better being left out.

There seems to be a conception amongst some fans that it was a strong side that took to the field in Bolton. Seriously? Baines, Jagielka, Arteta, Pienaar, Bilyaletdinov & Yakubu would all be in most Everton fan’s strongest line up, whilst Yobo, Neville, Osman and possibly Anichebe would be considered good options/cover from the bench. To put this into perspective, it’s like the Shite missing Aurelio, Agger, Carragher, Lucas, Alquilani, Riera, Benayoun, Torres and Babel. Even Stevie G laa wouldn’t be able to rescue the shower that emerged from any such wreckage.

Likewise, the comments I’ve read regarding the cause of these injuries are frankly laughable. One poster (on another thread) intimated that the ligament injuries have been caused by poor physical condition. Fuck me, not only can our players not pass a ball, they can’t even look after their bodies! Is the goofball who said this really being serious? A ligament (or tendon for that matter) snaps when it’s put under pressure it shouldn’t be under. Either through force created by the angle it’s bent to (a twist), or excessive force (a tackle). Some of the muscle strains will be caused by tired bodies or a possible lower standard of physical fitness. It’s telling that Yobo, Osman, Bily and Baines have played more than most this year (given that Bily was halfway through a Russian season before joining us).

Right now is a depressing time to be an Evertonian in many respects, and for some more than others. I am trying to stay on the positive side. We have been a lot worse in the vast majority of my 20 years as a Blue. We have so many players to return to boost the side, enough so that players like Hibbert, Gosling and Jo may not even get a look in the 18 if we are at any point fully fit. And at the end of the day, we’re competing at the right end of the best league in the world.

In no way does that make me happy with what we’ve got. I want to win the league, watch them lift the trophy at Goodison like my Dad did. But that ain’t gonna happen immediately. And it might not happen for a long while. Only 4 clubs have ever won the Premier League (1 of which was a one off), and another 4 or 5 are far better placed in terms of fan base, ground and finances. People are entitled to be pissed off that we haven’t had the funds to really go for the top. Likewise with the negative sides to our manager’s game. But the world doesn’t revolve around Everton and the same people have to take everything else into context if they are to form an objective opinion.

All that I ask at this current time is that every player gives 100% and that where they don’t, they are told it is not acceptable. The same back 4 will probably start tonight, and I expect an improvement. At the same time, I will bear in mind that Spurs have been in excellent form and will want to repay their fans for the defeat to Stoke. If we win, great. If we don’t, fair do’s, see the positives, and know it’s another game closer to having a better team on the field. Criticise the players, the tactics, but when I hear things like ’the injury list should have no bearing’ or ’it just goes to show how thin our squad is’ (-what? so having 12 players out and still fielding a full team of recognised senior players demonstrates weakness now - how many players do we need? 30? 40?), it makes me realise that there are a lot of people watching football who live in a very simple world.

Mmmm, we have gone from having the strongest squad for many a year, to putting out our second 11.