Friend on mine recokns Slaven Bilic is our man; anyone agree or can I tell him he’s talking through his arse?

Chances of BK getting rid of Davey though are nil so probably a pointless argument.

There can be no excuses for hoofball anymore. You only have to look at the young Arsenal side last night, kids that produce fantasy football and a joy to watch.

The question is, will we suddenly start playing this type of football once we have all players fit? I have my doubts.

I don’t think we’ll be bottom three, or face a relegation battle of any kind - but we’ll be lucky to break the top ten this year. That "should" be the end of David Moyes.

How did I know without looking who the author of an article entitled ’Bottom 3 by Christmas’ was going to be? Mr look on the bright side himself.

Tony, how many times do you have to re-spout the same rubbish about hoofball. It is complete nonsense as anybody who has watched most Everton games over the last few years will tell you.

When we have all our players available we can play football with the best of them. The problem — as repeated frequently but it doesn’t seem to sink in to half the people on here) — is that with Pienaar, Arteta & Billy injured we are limited for midfield so we have to play Cahill on the wing, a knackered Rodwell in the middle and Fellaini - who’s game involves picking passes etc but he doesn’t have many options to pass to.

It’s not rocket science but for some reason there are a large number of people on here who just think its cos we’re crap and want an excuse to moan at Davey, Bill (even Mick Rathbone got blamed yesterday!)

Why can’t you accept the fact that we won’t know what the team is capable of whilst most of it isn’t on the pitch!

Chris, that's rubbish. We don't have to play Cahill or Fellaini on the wing at all. What's wrong with giving a young lad a try, Baxter for example?

For all the use Cahill is out there, it wouldn't matter if you have a winger than play him there — don't put a center midfielder there.

Sorry but, once again, Tony's spot on and even though we've played just 10 games, and I for one can't wait for the end of this season already. So, yet again, we can hear all the bollocks coming from BK and all the yes men around him.

Roll on the summer...

How come last year, Tony, you had changed your opinion of DM, that he was doing a great job with his hands tied behind his back and Mr Kenwright was at the root of everything wrong with EFC? There is nothing worse than a fickle fan an you take the biscuit.

Let it go Chris, you will never be able to debate with him. he spouts his rehashed "saved in drafts" posts then usually disapears.

He makes the occassional post telling people they don’t know what they are taliking about, that they are appologists, that Osman/Hibbert/Moyes will be the downfall of this club etc etc then fail to respond to any coherent and well put question.

He was never high on my beleivability list but after spouting the shite about having paid for plane tickets, match tickets and hotel booking for Benfica and he never went because he knew we would get beat, all of the little credibility went out of the window.

Yes, we will probably get spanked by Villa at the weekend because we are playing shite at the moment and we haven’t had the same team this season for two concurrent games and our usually rock solid defence is shipping goals at an alarming rate, not too surprising seeing that at Benfica we had a right back with half a foot playing at left back and due to his nightmare performance we had our usual right back playing left back on Sunday along with an ageing overweight money grabber at right......

Oh why do I even bother, I should take my own advice and just let it go and stay away from one of the most predictable posts ToffeWeb has ever had. Look at me, I can predict we will get beat when we are playing teams that are doing well and we are without half a team, fooking proper Nostradamus ain’t he?

Agree to Davey Jones. Next up would be a return trip to Deepdale to poach Alan Irvine — we’ve missed him! Failing that, Steve Coppell.

But I think Moyes will go when he wants to go — either to ManYoo, Newcastle or Celtic. Bill won't get rid of him and non-Evertonians think we would be crazy to let Moyes go.

Myself, I’m undecided. I think he’s done a great job up to mid last season but is beginning to believe his own press and is slipping. This squad is better than it's results, even taking into consideration the injuries, and I can only look at the manager for the reasons for that. He’s just too conservative and limited in his game plan.

A lot of the criticism of Tony Marsh on this site is over the top.
The fact is, a lot of the footbal, winning or losing, over the past few years has been shite. Everton do play the long ball far too often and are not very entertaining to watch.

Sure, the team has proven to punch above its weight, but not with style. People still talk about the Fiorentina game a couple of seasons back, but how many games have we played since then against weaker teams, that we should be out-passing and out-classing, where we have resorted to defending a lead and being dominated on the park?

’When we have all our players available we can play football with the best of them.’

------------------------------

Quite different from saying that ’we did play football with the best of them’... The impressive footballing displays in the last 3 years can be counted on two hands — maybe one if we’re talking about 90 minutes rather than a single half or a portion of a game... whenever accusing someone of ’spouting rubbish’ — you should be careful not to do the same thing....

As for our signings, Tony, I think you’re are way of the mark on your synopsis of Bily. He is a very good player who will work well with (what I see as) our best midfield of Pienaar, Rodwell, Arteta and Fellaini... and will link up well with the sole striker in Saha.

As for the £30 million... I doubt we’ve spent anymore than £15 mill on those three players you mentioned — given our clubs apparent financial difficulties and their reputed fondness for paying on the ’never, never’...

On a sidenote I see Portsmouth have a transfer embargo for debt to other clubs... I bet Kenwright would love one of those....

Everton can and do play football, but having watched them for a number of years, it comes with confidence.

When the team are playing well and on a good run, the players are more confident on the ball and happy to knock the ball around easily. When we are struggling a bit, players are a bit more edgy and therefore tend to want to get rid of the ball quicker - this is particularly the case with specific players but affects most of them at times.

This also applies when you have relatively unfamiliar players around you and you aren’t quite so confident in what other people are doing.

That’s why you tend to see this game in patches rather than for full games, passing games are more common when teams are relaxed and confident.

Obviously, with players like Pienaar & Arteta — they are happy on the ball all the time so are likely to try and knock the ball around more often even when the team is struggling, but for others they need to have confidence in their ability otherwise they adopt a safety first attitude.

For those who criticise Davey for this tactic — I suggest you sit behind him and watch a game — he is usually one of the first to criticise if a player plays it long when there is a simple pass available.

Tony. You have to be one of the most negative, divisive, repetitive, turgid one trick, over the top and rude individuals I hope never to meet. I read the first few lines and guessed correctly who had written the mail; that’s how predictable you’ve become.

You will no doubt be pleased to know you are not alone. I have, over the 30+ years I have sat in the stands, heard people like you spouting off to no one in particular about their "favourite" themes (this player or that player’s crap, the Manager’s a joke etc.) to the point that they sound like they’re part of a Care in the Community programme. We all have an occasional moan, but I cannot fathom why people like this go to the game, as week after week they are consistently disappointed, win or lose. You seem to be a leading contender in that category and I feel sorry for anyone who has their enjoyment of the game spoilt by having to sit and listen to you at a game.

As another poster to this thread has said, whatever credibility still clung to your diatribes was lost when you claim you didn’t go to Benefica because you "knew", Mystic Meg style, we would get beat; that article was wrong on so many levels.

This post is another classic TM gripe; Waiting for Godot-like rages which apparently now see the Messiah arriving in the shape of David Jones. Right.......

You have single handedly dragged this site into being one where negativity is the predominant theme and anyone with anything remotely positive to say is drowned out by you and a few acolytes.

You have the right to say anything you want, but from now on, I shall be looking for the name of the author of a post before I read it, because I’m not going to spend anymore of my valuable time reading your laughably apocalytic view of the Everton world. Like so many End of Days "prophets" you’ve been consistently wrong so many times it’s laughable.

Chris Briddon, You are fooling yourself mate. The players play hoofball cos they are told to. It really is a very, very basic tactic. Occaisionally its ok as it mixes things up, but it does seem to be our staple tactic.

I could agree with you if we saw players looking to play in short passes, come short looking for the ball etc etc but the lack of movement in front of the player with the ball at his feet tells all. And how are players going to familiarise themselves with the rest of the team when the ball is hacked 70 yards past them?

Chris B, Tony W - What planets do you both live on?

We are the worst team to watch in the Prem, we are the set-piece kings having scored more than any other team last season. All from Moyes who has never won anything.

How can he be immune from criticism? Why have you both got such low standards? Moyes even suggested after the Bolton defeat that we may not be be playing enough of the hoofballs and that perhaps we should be more like Bolton!! God help me!

I don’t agree with the replacement managers Tony mentions, I don’t think they are good enough either. I feel we need a foreign manager who is well connected abroad but I have no faith whatsoever in Kenwright choosing the right man.

Hopefully, the Kirkby decision will be made soon, this will let any potential investors know were they stand. They can give Kenwright the millions he’s holding out for, send him on his way and then get a manager who knows how to play the game properly. This is the only way I see us winning anything.

"Moyes even suggested after the Bolton defeat that we may not be be playing enough of the hoofballs and that perhaps we should be more like Bolton"

I saw that too. WTF. That’s almost laughable if it wasn’t so bloody scary.

Steve Guy,

Why didn’t you just not read the rest of the article... or not post... and spare us the histrionics of telling us you weren’t going to post.

You don’t like Tony’s opinion, we get it.

ps: I find your casual reference to ’care in the community’ rather ’rude’.

Tommy - he’s not immune to criticism if it’s deserved. I am just of the opinion that in this case it isn’t. I have seen Everton teams in the last year or two play some of the best football going.

I am also prepared to back a manager that has finished in the top 6 of the PL 3 years running to play how he feels is best as he knows better than me!

Tommy, I am on the same planet as you and on that planet I don’t feel the need to make stupid comments like that because I don’t agree with what you may say.

I have never once said that Moyes is beyond criticism, far from it. Some of the football this year has been absolutely dire; however I don’t solely place the blame at Moyes’s doormat, I also blame the lazy overpaid players too and also blame one of the worst injury lists I have ever known since being born an Evertonian.

The post was simply me saying that Marshy’s rants are all the same (apart from the lack of the use of the word coward in this one) and his "predictions" are the same as the ones he makes every year when we have a bad spell, which invariably (so far) have been proven wrong, well at least for 6 out of the last 7 years.

He is a bore who loves the sound of his own voice (in t'internet form) and his rantings are infamous throughout the whole of the posters on Toffeeweb, he has some followers, like most loud cultists do, but most try and look at his post, pick out the relevant and true aspects and ignore the bile filled rant at Moyes, Osman/Hibbert & Kenwright.

Moyes is an alright manager of an average team, I have been saying that for some time now but apparantly Moyes should be making all the players who Marsh thinks are crap into world beaters. I have asked on many occassions how can it be explained that, if our players are so poor in his eyes, why is he surprised when we get beat and why is it solely Moyes’s fault and not the players? Or, in the latest poor run, the inju... sorry, can’t use that as an excuse anymore, as apparently our reserve side should also have the beating of all other teams.

As I said earlier, he is now predicting defeats against sides who beat us last season and are on a rich vein of form, not exactly bookie-worrying bets them, are they?

1. Fans aren’t starting "to wake up to Moyes and his sterile methods" — they are just riding high on negative emotion, doom-merchants, and the reality of losing 3 games on the trot.

2. You can’t label Felliani, Billy and Heitinga poor signings yet. Was Fellaini not doing well last season before injuries kicked in and he got moved about? Wasn’t he also joint top scorer? Bily has been here 5 minutes and looks pretty decent to me even though playing in an injury ravaged team. I agree Heitinga hasn’t looked the best but there’s a reason he’s captained Holland surely.

3. Regarding raiding lower division players, was he not in for Sheffield Utd and Leeds Utd players before the realisation of having no money kicked in?

4. As for your prediction Moyes will never win anything, we’ll see in the coming seasons when he’s managing Man Utd whether or not your contempt for him and view he’s a crap, negative manager is well founded. I’d be surprised if he doesn’t win a shit load at a wealthy club.

5. I thought league table finishes of 4th, 6th, 6th, 7th, 5th in no particular order was a pretty decent achievement. A skint team will never win the league. Nor will a team managed by Dave Jones.

Same old identikit hyperbolic toss, Tony.

Bilyaletdinov has showed plenty of flashes of skill that suggest he offers something very different. Heitinga has barely had a chance in his favoured position so far. Fellaini has rarely had a run in a single position — I accept he hasn’t convinced but he’s still young and it isn’t like he contributes nothing — just not €15m performances yet.

Which five or six quality Boro and West Brom players did you have in mind? Downing perhaps (injured and over-priced)? Adam Johnson (elected to stay at Boro and still on our radar)? Alves (snigger)? When did your haughty ambitions get so low that you just want to sign chancers from relegated teams?

Did you even watch the game against Bolton? Yes we lost but we played decent football and, unsurprisingly given the injuries, just lacked penetration. The goals were atypical of Everton.

And please can everyone stop fellating Martinez. If and when Wigan achieve more than Moyes has with Everton, THEN start going all googly eyed; until then, remember it was Martinez’s side that kicked lumps out of us not so long ago whilst we actually tried to play decent football.

Since the poster is (rightly) entitled to making some bold predictions, here are some of my own:

1. We will not get relegated.

2. We will not play dire football in every game for the rest of the season.

3. We will in some games play some teams off the park, especially at home.

4. We will win 3-4 games on the trot at some point again this season.

5. There will be a period when the world feels like a wonderful place for every Evertonian (except maybe the poster)

And here are a few more

1. We will not qualify for the Champions League, and may not even make the top 6 this season.

2. We will put in at least one more dreadful performance against a top side which could result in a hammering

3. We will play hoofball in some games, especially away from home

4. There will be more absences due to injuries, suspensions, Africa Nations whatever

5. For a while, the we will feel like the entire world is against us.


So, what’s my point? Well, its that every year under Moyes we have had a roller coaster of highs and lows. In fact, within each season we have had a roller coaster. Last year, we had a terrible start followed by a fantastic run. This year, we had a poor start, then 5 wins on the spin, and then another series of poor results.

This is not enough to get Moyes sacked by Kenwright. Wally lost his job when Kenwright realised that the side was in total free fall and heading for the rocks. This squad has much farther to go before it reaches that point - at that stage, Kenwright is more likely to pull the trigger (if he has not been ousted himself by then).

We may be playing terrible football at the minute and losing games, but at some point, with our better players in the side we will return to the form we saw only a few weeks ago. And Moyes will continue at the helm until he decides to leave.

Better get used to it.

That’s not blind faith or delusion, its just based on historical trends.

I haven’t read one decent suggestion as to a Moyes replacement so far on here. Some of the suggestions that have cropped up are really scary! Dave Jones being one!

How will we ever progress as a club and as a football team if the majority of our fans defend the total dross Moyes's teams serve up?

I remember the majority of our fans voted YES to Kirkby and they thought they were right then, like they do now over Moyes. Guess what — you where kidded back then when the DK vote was being made and you are being kidded now by the manager.

For those of you who blame injuries for the garbage football, how come it was the same last season in many games when we had a full squad?

Did you watch Arsenal's kids last night? Some only 17 and the whole side costing no more than a few million quid. Every one of them got the ball down and passed it to feet. WHY? Wenger coaches them that way, that's why.

The funniest thing of all is me being called NEGATIVE for hating crap percentage hoofball and suicidal laughable tactics while those of you who defend it think you are being positive???

The mind boggles and I despair at some of my fellow Evertonians, I really do.

How many assists does Bily need in six games before you consider he has some creativity? Evidently the 4 or 5 he has aren’t enough. Judging him now, in his first season in English football, is absurd trollish nonsense.

How many midfielders the same age (or younger) than Fellaini, who had never played English football before in their career, scored as many goals in their first season as he did?

As for Heitinga and Bily, you lot need a tent and some crystal balls — make a fortune with your ability to see a player's entire career from their first 6 games in a new league.

This is not a wind up but a genuine attempt to get into your mindset Tony.

I will ask again, seeing as you feel that so many of our players are shite, why do you get so worked up when we lose? Surely, if we are to believe your bulllsh....sorry, story that you didn’t go to Benfica because your thought we would get beat you would expect it and would come to terms with the fact we are a poor team, yet you get apoplectic when we lose games — why do you think that Moyes should be able to make these dour players overcome their own personal lack of skill and do over teams with ease playing silky Brazilesque football?

I don’t think Moyes is a great manager, just a good one doing a good job with an average side.

You say you despair at some of your fellow Evertonians, this coming from a man who wanted us to be beaten 5-0 by Arsenal and won’t go to a game, supposedly already paid for... because you thought we would get beat. YOU despair???

John Barnes (hmm, really?) - "The players play hoofball cos they are told to."

Prove it. With actual evidence - y’know proof that you have been told this directly by one of the players, for instance. Or is it just an opinion you’ve confused with a fact?

As for Tony M himself, two other posters have beaten me to the punchline. In all my 30-odd years watching us (26 and counting as a season ticket holder) I’ve never heard such a laughably, cringe-making excuse for not going to the match as this fella came out with for not going to Portugal.

And this character has the gall to accuse our manager of being a coward?
Oh dear.

I think Bily will turn out to be a good player for us. I felt the same about Fellaini and I’ve always defended him but sooner rather than later he’s going to have to deliver. Not sure about Heitinga, but I’ll give him a chance which new players deserve.

The reported £30million for these players will have been paid on the drip but it still needs paying. Who could we have got for that?

Vermaelen
Naughton
Cattermole
Adam Johnson

Tony Williams,

I live in London and have booked a non refundable first class return seat to Liverpool on Saturday for 3000 quid, a non refundable King room at the Adelphi Hotel for 150 quid, my Aston Villa match ticket at 40 quid incl. admin fees, and putting aside 100 quid for taxis, food and beer.

But I'm not going to go now 'cause I think we’ll get beat 2-0.

There is one fundamental and utterly obvious problem with the ’Moyes is a rubbish manager’ argument.

With less resources than over half the division, he’s finished in the top six for most of his time at our club.

Flukes and accidents don’t happen year after year.

I really wish people would stop going on about Arsenal and saying "their players don’t cost much to buy." While true, it ignores the fact that they spend £60 million per year more than us on salaries. £60 million a year more. It’s another world.

It’s not like Moyes hasn’t chased players whom Arsenal has now (Ramsey for example) but they are offered more money (if not now they know they’ll get more when they sign their next contract) and a chance at CL football. CL football which requires (or is vastly helped by) spending 100 million pounds per year on salaries. 100 million pounds per year we simply do not have — and still won’t have even if we fire Moyes.

Ever wonder why it seems that the people who know best always find in necessary to use profanities and become personally abusive, funny that.

Sam, good for you mate... it’s a bit stupid mind but good for you!!

Just a point and you can take it any way, indicative or not, as you please. In ghosts of posts past Mr M used to get a shitload of replies, 100+ was not unusual, but now we have 30+...why?Apathy and realisation — that's why.

We go to the game, well coz that's what we do it’s, if not exactly our life (in the dramatic sense) but part of our routine, born not made etc etc and yes there are ups and downs...

Disclaimer: yes, I know Moyes has to some degree steadied the ship in the 1st half of his 7 years and financial considerations blah blah, best of the rest blah blah, remember how it was under Walter blah blah.

BUT; How many times (and don’t confuse such results as the win in the cup over the RS and the Mancs they were more of an emotional high, I mean bread and butter games...), how many times have you come out of the ground at the end with a smile on your face thinking... "Well, that was worth the money!"

Well go on, how many in 3.5yrs.

THAT IS MARSHY’S POINT

Tony, why so antagonistic generally? A grand total of £30 million wasted on Fellaini, Bily and Heitinga. Do you still think that?

Who are Boro and West Brom's promising players? Why ask "who the fuck had ever heard of Fellaini, Bily or Heitinga before we ended up with them?" Oops. I might be in hindsight, but I kept my mouth shut before jumping to conclusions; patience is a virtue.

"10 games in burnt out" . 21 games now?....... what? Last week 15 points off 4th place, Wednesday this week maybe 9 points. I know dependent on other results, but still......

Tony Marsh first choice: Martinez, so.....: Portsmouth 4 Wigan 0, 31st October 2009; Tottenham 9 Wigan 1, 22nd November 2009; Wigan 2 Birmingham 3, 5th December 2009; Liverpool 2 Wigan 1, 16th December 2009; Man Utd 5 Wigan 0, 30th December 2009: 4 for; 23 against in total. You draw your own conclusion.

Cardiff 2nd place? now 5th, 10 points off promotion. Think again eh?..... Any sign of hoofball recently?, or big money, Landon Donovan anyone? or Jo, no money paid I understand (we was (sic) cute) (now gone, he was rubbish)

I'm fed up now, do we need a change......Tony, i've had a rest