The Mail Bag
Pen to Pienaar
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A question to those with there ear to the ground: Does anyone have any (true) info on Steven Pienaar's future? I know his 3-year contract runs out in summer 2010 and if I remember rightly, talks were underway or at least threatening to get underway shortly before the start of this season. Since then it all seems to have gone very quiet?
I think there will be many attractive offers for Pienaar elsewhere if his form continues. Arsene Wenger was apparently interested 12 months ago for one and I can see a lot more clubs trying to tempt him away from Goodison if we don't get him tied down soon.
He's been outstanding for us I think. His work rate is second to none and he's been by far our most creative player in the absence of Mikel. I'd hate to see him go for little or nothing because we've dithered around and waited too long to sort something out with him!
So does anyone have any info on Pienaar and contract negotiations?
Ian Ankers, Posted 02/12/2009 at 19:55:49
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I’ve always said this lad needed to be played in central midfield.
Why does it have take us struggling to have to test Pienaar?
For Heaven sake, this player plays this positions brilliantly for South Africa and at Ajax Amsterdam. ( the very same player that kept Raphael van de Vaart out of the Ajax team.
Last year i was basically crucified on the website for even mentioning Stevie P playing the the center of the park.
DM, you really need to start knowing the squad’s strengths....
I bet anyone top dollars Pienaar will out perform Arteta in that central position!
Why does it have take us struggling to have to test Pienaar?
For Heaven sake, this player plays this positions brilliantly for South Africa and at Ajax Amsterdam. ( the very same player that kept Raphael van de Vaart out of the Ajax team.
Last year i was basically crucified on the website for even mentioning Stevie P playing the the center of the park.
DM, you really need to start knowing the squad’s strengths....
I bet anyone top dollars Pienaar will out perform Arteta in that central position!
Anyone unsure about his best position should of watched him in the confed cup in Africa.
He was defo the player of the tournament playing in the middle.
He was a revelation.
He was defo the player of the tournament playing in the middle.
He was a revelation.
Jimmy Saville - you’re spot on, the word that came to my mind at the time also was revelation. He really gave SA momentum,constantlly pushing forward in central mid’. I think he showed what a quality player he could be in that position as he played against some strong teams & line ups in the confed’s.
If we could get him signed up great but with a chance to shine next year's World Cup & then only 12 months left on his deal, we’ll probably have to ’cash in’, as his agent will be playing hardball. I also guess the current dire state of all things Everton ain't going to help either.
How many times does Pienaar hit the byline and cross playing for Everton?
Both him and Bily cut in to the middle anyway, so all this stuff about him playing in the middle is a nonsense. He effectively does!
Our current midfield set-up of Bily and Pienaar either side of Fellaini has balance... why fuck about with it? And it’ll be even better when Arteta can play alongside Rodwell behind them!
Both him and Bily cut in to the middle anyway, so all this stuff about him playing in the middle is a nonsense. He effectively does!
Our current midfield set-up of Bily and Pienaar either side of Fellaini has balance... why fuck about with it? And it’ll be even better when Arteta can play alongside Rodwell behind them!
Got to agree with Jimmy and Marc, when SA lost Pienaar through injury their whole game fell apart. He does command the game playing for his national team in the middle of the park in a similar way to how I moaned about Arteta needing to play CM as thats why Rangers originally bought him from PSG where he outshone Ronaldinho. I wish the manager would look at where his players perform best for their national side instead of this mix and match utility shite, christ how much better did Cahill look last night playing behind Jo?
His contract is until 2011, so there is no concern yet. But given that he is in the form of his life and the world cup is coming up, I doubt he will sign a long term deal before then. He knows he is in the shop window without Mikel in the team. I get the feeling he is doing a ’Gravesen’.
Nick,
There’s several test cases going through the courts now for the pubs right to show foreign channels on teh basis of freedom of services..
I would assume showing an internet feed is an even more grey area..
But then again, why would you put a dodgy internet stream of very poor quality and constant interuptions when you could simply buy a sub for Digitalb, sky italia, nova, art..or one of the other various packages...
Or, use your wit and simply decrypt them!
There’s several test cases going through the courts now for the pubs right to show foreign channels on teh basis of freedom of services..
I would assume showing an internet feed is an even more grey area..
But then again, why would you put a dodgy internet stream of very poor quality and constant interuptions when you could simply buy a sub for Digitalb, sky italia, nova, art..or one of the other various packages...
Or, use your wit and simply decrypt them!
We rescued him when he seemed lost in Germany, and since passing his loan spell, only signed three years, has failed to re-sign. I’m afraid I’ve always felt he’d be off by 2010.
But not before the World Cup, and if he gets injured we’ll get diddly squat.
Otherwise, we should get around £8 or 9 million for such a class player even with only a year on his deal. Bloody shame, to have him, Arteta and bily would revolutionise the team, with a strong ball winner alongside.
But not before the World Cup, and if he gets injured we’ll get diddly squat.
Otherwise, we should get around £8 or 9 million for such a class player even with only a year on his deal. Bloody shame, to have him, Arteta and bily would revolutionise the team, with a strong ball winner alongside.
He is not going to be sold in January.
No one is showing an interest in him anyway. This is because we overrate him. An absolute bag of talent and often brings flashes of much needed skill to our team but, at the end of the day, he is an attacking midfielder who does not score regularly and does not offer too many assists either. The stats don’t lie gentlemen. Don’t be misled by the odd trick or two; with his level of talent he should be far more productive to our team than he actually is.
He is 100% not leaving the club in January.
No one is showing an interest in him anyway. This is because we overrate him. An absolute bag of talent and often brings flashes of much needed skill to our team but, at the end of the day, he is an attacking midfielder who does not score regularly and does not offer too many assists either. The stats don’t lie gentlemen. Don’t be misled by the odd trick or two; with his level of talent he should be far more productive to our team than he actually is.
He is 100% not leaving the club in January.
Pienaar is a fantastic player but lets not bow to his every demand. I am sick of modern footballers and the power they demand.
Hopefully Pienaar is decent enough to just ask for a reasonable contract and everything is sorted easily.
Lets not forget it is an incredible honour to play for our great club.
Hopefully Pienaar is decent enough to just ask for a reasonable contract and everything is sorted easily.
Lets not forget it is an incredible honour to play for our great club.
"Stats don't lie"
So we ARE missing Osman... and Lucas Neill IS the worst Everton player, ever!
So we ARE missing Osman... and Lucas Neill IS the worst Everton player, ever!
@Gavin Ramejkis
I never mentioned when people on here originally suggested Arteta should play in Center Midfield but I must give a possible reason in Moyes defence as to why he took so long to played Arteta there.
At Rangers Arteta complained (a little) in the papers because he had to do the deeper midfield work which let Barry Ferguson do all the creative work at the business end of the field (’Ferguson’ and ’creative’ in a sentence, how laughable is that!). So I’d imagine when Moyes bought Arteta what he did know for sure was that to keep Arteta happy, he should not ask him to play in a central midfield role where he would have to defend alot.
Since those days Pirlo has shown that a deeper role doesn’t necessarily mean defending plus Arteta has matured which is why maybe it has become an appealing position to Arteta for him to play in and why it hasn’t become such a volatile subject for Moyes to suggest Arteta plays there.
This might be all wrong but I’m just reading between the lines of Arteta’s previous outspoken views.
I never mentioned when people on here originally suggested Arteta should play in Center Midfield but I must give a possible reason in Moyes defence as to why he took so long to played Arteta there.
At Rangers Arteta complained (a little) in the papers because he had to do the deeper midfield work which let Barry Ferguson do all the creative work at the business end of the field (’Ferguson’ and ’creative’ in a sentence, how laughable is that!). So I’d imagine when Moyes bought Arteta what he did know for sure was that to keep Arteta happy, he should not ask him to play in a central midfield role where he would have to defend alot.
Since those days Pirlo has shown that a deeper role doesn’t necessarily mean defending plus Arteta has matured which is why maybe it has become an appealing position to Arteta for him to play in and why it hasn’t become such a volatile subject for Moyes to suggest Arteta plays there.
This might be all wrong but I’m just reading between the lines of Arteta’s previous outspoken views.
Short memories...
Nobody moaned about Arteta playing wide at the time, too busy voting him player of the year... twice.
Arteta and Pienaar are two quality players who can play either central or wide, unfortunately it's a bit much to ask them to do both, it's simple really play them wide and you weaken our centre, play them central and you remove the threat from out wide.
Nobody moaned about Arteta playing wide at the time, too busy voting him player of the year... twice.
Arteta and Pienaar are two quality players who can play either central or wide, unfortunately it's a bit much to ask them to do both, it's simple really play them wide and you weaken our centre, play them central and you remove the threat from out wide.
if everyone was fit, Moyes would be playing:
Big Vic out right - because nobody beats us when he plays there... and we havent got anyone else
Arteta and Pienaar central - both quality
Billy on the left - high hopes
Fellaini behind Saha
Cahill could let of the leash when needed and young Rodwell would get a proper and gradual apprenticeship
Oh and Ossie would have to be always on the bench - because statistically its seems we are a connsssidderrabbly better team when he’s around.
Big Vic out right - because nobody beats us when he plays there... and we havent got anyone else
Arteta and Pienaar central - both quality
Billy on the left - high hopes
Fellaini behind Saha
Cahill could let of the leash when needed and young Rodwell would get a proper and gradual apprenticeship
Oh and Ossie would have to be always on the bench - because statistically its seems we are a connsssidderrabbly better team when he’s around.
Suzy the stats don’t lie. Which means according to your logic Mick Ferguson was a better Everton Centre Forward than Joe Royle, Alex Young, Bob Latchford, Andy Gray and Tony Cottee.
Yep the stats never lie.
Yep the stats never lie.
That line-up sounds pretty good to me Dave Wilson (although I can’t decide between Cahill and Fellaini), in fact last night proved all 3 Central Midfielders interchanging positions can even work effectively.
I especially like your Anichebe call, it may not be where he was brought up to play, but it’s his best position now.
I especially like your Anichebe call, it may not be where he was brought up to play, but it’s his best position now.
Anichibe as our first choice right winger? Seriously?? Mad...
Even if Moyes were to suddenly to decide that both Arteta and Pienaar should play together in central midfield (highly unlikely, as he will want some defensive steel in there in the form of Neville or Rodwell), it would be Osman on the right ahead of Big Vic.
But it seems pretty clear to me that Moyes’s first choice midfield 5 would be Bily and Pienaar on the wings, and Neville Arteta and either Fellaini or Cahill in the centre.
Not that I necessarily think that a midfield of Arteta, Pienaar and Fellaini might not be a good idea, but I can’t see it happening myself unless Fellaini develops into a good defensive midfielder to play behind those two rather than ahead of them.
Even then given how useless our options are at right mid other than Pienaar and Arteta, I think it’s inevitable one of them will be playing there when fit unless we get someone else in for that position.
Even if Moyes were to suddenly to decide that both Arteta and Pienaar should play together in central midfield (highly unlikely, as he will want some defensive steel in there in the form of Neville or Rodwell), it would be Osman on the right ahead of Big Vic.
But it seems pretty clear to me that Moyes’s first choice midfield 5 would be Bily and Pienaar on the wings, and Neville Arteta and either Fellaini or Cahill in the centre.
Not that I necessarily think that a midfield of Arteta, Pienaar and Fellaini might not be a good idea, but I can’t see it happening myself unless Fellaini develops into a good defensive midfielder to play behind those two rather than ahead of them.
Even then given how useless our options are at right mid other than Pienaar and Arteta, I think it’s inevitable one of them will be playing there when fit unless we get someone else in for that position.
Dave and Tommy, I just think Arteta is better in the middle of the park driving play forward and looking for a decent defence splitting pass. Tommy as you also seem to know about Rangers I know far too many ’gers supporters that agree "square ball" or "my ball" or "the crab" Barry Ferguson only goes sideways and got more of a look in than he deserved, they even played him over Pedro Mendes for a time when Mendes was the much better choice.
Mathew
Mad?
No, mate... just logical, if Arteta and Pienaar are to play central — and many many Evertonians want that to happen — why would it be mad to play a guy who played there during one of our best spells for a decade?
Mad?
No, mate... just logical, if Arteta and Pienaar are to play central — and many many Evertonians want that to happen — why would it be mad to play a guy who played there during one of our best spells for a decade?
I have no axe to grind with Ossie, but the general feeling is he isn't strong enough. Anichebe was the first choice before "that tackle " he was making the position his own. I haven't noticed anyone lay claim to it in his absence.
He bossed the middle of the field yesterday-shouting, telling those around him what to do and where to go, tackling and running non stop. On top of all that he dribbled and passed really well. In short he looked like Bally and there is no higher praise!!
It’s a shame you had to say that Suzy!
You told us last Summer that Lescott would not be leaving till Summer 2010 on more than one occasion. Of course, that did not happen. Now you have cursed Pienaar too :)
Dave Wilson. Funny you should say that about Big Vic, as I was only thinking last night as we battled away in Athens about my favourite Euro away day in Nuremburg. From my vantage point in the Main stand I had the perfect view of Anichebe picking the ball up on the right touchline, cutting in and powering in on goal before scoring a superb goal.
If he gets fit again, he has the pace and he has the strength you all claim Ossie hasn’t got. He played a blinder in the League derby at Anfield last season in that role too. Funnier things have happened.....
A line up of
Howard
Neville, Jagielka, Distin/Yobo, Baines
Fellaini
Anichebe, Arteta, Pienaar, Bily
Cahill / Saha
looks pretty balanced to me! Saha won’t play every game sadly.
Cahill / Saha, Yak, Yobo/Distin, Osman, Nash, Heitinga, Hibbert/ Neill on the bench.
You told us last Summer that Lescott would not be leaving till Summer 2010 on more than one occasion. Of course, that did not happen. Now you have cursed Pienaar too :)
Dave Wilson. Funny you should say that about Big Vic, as I was only thinking last night as we battled away in Athens about my favourite Euro away day in Nuremburg. From my vantage point in the Main stand I had the perfect view of Anichebe picking the ball up on the right touchline, cutting in and powering in on goal before scoring a superb goal.
If he gets fit again, he has the pace and he has the strength you all claim Ossie hasn’t got. He played a blinder in the League derby at Anfield last season in that role too. Funnier things have happened.....
A line up of
Howard
Neville, Jagielka, Distin/Yobo, Baines
Fellaini
Anichebe, Arteta, Pienaar, Bily
Cahill / Saha
looks pretty balanced to me! Saha won’t play every game sadly.
Cahill / Saha, Yak, Yobo/Distin, Osman, Nash, Heitinga, Hibbert/ Neill on the bench.
Anichebe.. right wing? Lollerskates!
Suzy,
I’ve really missed you stating the obvious!
Any other gems and ’revelations’ you can share with us?
I’ve really missed you stating the obvious!
Any other gems and ’revelations’ you can share with us?
Pienaar may be better in the middle, but he’s more effective for the team on the wing. I quite like the suggestion of Pienaar and Arteta in the middle, but we need a better right winger to do that, and a good enogh defensive midfiielder, though Fellaini and Rodwell can do that eventually. I prefer Fellaini and Arteta in the middle, because it adds a balance of a strong box to box midfield and a creative midfielder. Piennar on the right and Billy on the left sounds a very good midfield to me.
With Dave’s suggestion of Anichebe playing in the right, it is an option but I think the wrong one. He was good there for a few games, but he does not have the attributes for a winger. It would upset the balance of the team. I think if he got his finishing up to scratch and maybe be a bit fitter, he’d be a great lone striker.
With Dave’s suggestion of Anichebe playing in the right, it is an option but I think the wrong one. He was good there for a few games, but he does not have the attributes for a winger. It would upset the balance of the team. I think if he got his finishing up to scratch and maybe be a bit fitter, he’d be a great lone striker.
Fair points gentlemen - probably should not have gone with ’the stats don’t lie’ speech.
Karl, on the other hand is completely wrong (but consistent); I said Lescott was definitely leaving and IF Moyes got his way it was summer 2010. - but that would be unlikely.
I feel good again now Karl - thanks.
PS. Karl starts with a C
Karl, on the other hand is completely wrong (but consistent); I said Lescott was definitely leaving and IF Moyes got his way it was summer 2010. - but that would be unlikely.
I feel good again now Karl - thanks.
PS. Karl starts with a C
Pienaar Arteta Centre mids with Fellaini, Rodwell or Heitinga just behind is a tantalising prospect. 5 man midfield. The problem is we have no top notch wingers.
I would seriously consider baines for LM for a shortwhile and move Neil to RB...
I would seriously consider baines for LM for a shortwhile and move Neil to RB...
Peanut is a player with a fair bit of skill, problem is that he is the player who I see ( on tv mind you ) complain every time that a pass goes wrong even if he has played a bullet pass to where no is standing or could hope to get to. He throws his hands up in the air as if he never makes a mistake. By the time he then turns to fix the fuck up he created the ball is ten metres away. I & most people think he is a good player, problem so does he
Suzy, or is it Susie ( ! ), Stalin starts with an S.
Glad you feel better though.
All banter aside though, do you think Pienaar is going to be here in 12 month’s time?
Glad you feel better though.
All banter aside though, do you think Pienaar is going to be here in 12 month’s time?
Thanks for clearing my original question regarding Pienaar’s contract up for me people! I thought his contract ended this coming summer. Glad to hear I was wrong and he has another 12 months after that, but even so I would feel a little better if he signed a new contract before he’s put in the shop window in front of the whole world next summer!
As for the odd comment questioning Pienaar’s worth.... I certainly wouldn’t want to be without him. He covers more ground than anyone on the pitch and that aside he is also a very talented football player. I didn’t like him much at first, but he’s certainly grown on me in the last 12 months or so. For me he is most definately a player we must try to tie down to a long term contract before he attracts those ’just couldn’t turn them down’ type offers.
As for the odd comment questioning Pienaar’s worth.... I certainly wouldn’t want to be without him. He covers more ground than anyone on the pitch and that aside he is also a very talented football player. I didn’t like him much at first, but he’s certainly grown on me in the last 12 months or so. For me he is most definately a player we must try to tie down to a long term contract before he attracts those ’just couldn’t turn them down’ type offers.
"The Crab" indeed Gavin!
I totally agree with that, and I wasn’t implying that Arteta should have let Barry Ferguson do all the creative work, I was saying that it was the ridiculous tactic employed by the manager at the time (Advocaat I think). Plus I did say ’Ferguson’ and ’creative’ in a sentence was laughable.
I’m glad a few of you saw Moyes seeming to be starting to trust Anichebe out wide and agreed with the tactic and that it wasn’t just me hallucinating! I admit....
- Yak makes his finishing look like Zamora’s
- He can’t anicipate when he needs the toilet never mind a through ball meant for him (resulting in him appearing lazy, but it’s really just his brain that’s lazy! ;) )
....but he has pace and is ’jinky’ to the point where he scares people when he runs at them in a similar way (but not same quality!) as Arjen Robben, this has set up goals already in a short space of time out wide.
I totally agree with that, and I wasn’t implying that Arteta should have let Barry Ferguson do all the creative work, I was saying that it was the ridiculous tactic employed by the manager at the time (Advocaat I think). Plus I did say ’Ferguson’ and ’creative’ in a sentence was laughable.
I’m glad a few of you saw Moyes seeming to be starting to trust Anichebe out wide and agreed with the tactic and that it wasn’t just me hallucinating! I admit....
- Yak makes his finishing look like Zamora’s
- He can’t anicipate when he needs the toilet never mind a through ball meant for him (resulting in him appearing lazy, but it’s really just his brain that’s lazy! ;) )
....but he has pace and is ’jinky’ to the point where he scares people when he runs at them in a similar way (but not same quality!) as Arjen Robben, this has set up goals already in a short space of time out wide.
How about a wager then Suzy? :)
I think to say no-one is interested in Pienaar shows how little you must know. The differnce that fella has made in 2 games now he’s back in the team is huge. That will not go unnoticed by other clubs with more money than us.
I think to say no-one is interested in Pienaar shows how little you must know. The differnce that fella has made in 2 games now he’s back in the team is huge. That will not go unnoticed by other clubs with more money than us.
Arteta and Pienaar would work in the middle like Xavi and Iniesta (maybe not quite as good but close).
Now we just need Yaya Toure to hold, and Messi and Henry out wide.
Sadly the play for someone else!
Now we just need Yaya Toure to hold, and Messi and Henry out wide.
Sadly the play for someone else!
I don’t remember anyone being against seeing Pienaar in a more central role, I think it was more a case of people realising that last season especially, we had no backup outwide and with Arteta in the middle we needed Pienaar’s quality outwide.
As for comparing Arteta and Pienaar, they are completely different, as centre midfielders especially.
Arteta isn’t this central attacking midfielder people make him out to be, he can do it because he has high levels of technical ability and intelligence. But he’s much more at home infront of his back four, knitting things together and dictating the tempo of the game. A ’deep lying playmaker’ so to speak, or even a holding midfielder in English football. He was playing as deep as Neville when he played centre midfield last season.
Pienaar, on the other hand, is more attacking and better in the final third. He can’t keep hold of the ball like Mikel in deep positions but he does have more vision and creativity in the final third.
It is like comparing Xavi and Iniesta, two ’creative’ players who excel in different areas of the pitch.
The formation Dave Wilson mentions would be an interesting one to see. If we are looking to move Pienaar into a more central position, then for me, it’d have to be behind the main striker, in Cahill/Fellaini’s position. Two holding midfielders behind him (Rodwell, Arteta) and Anichebe and Bilyaletdinov outwide.
Anichebe gave a really good account of himself outwide last season and with that much quality and creativity in the midfield his pace, power and robustness would be much more effective than having someone like Osman, Fellaini or Cahill out there.
As for comparing Arteta and Pienaar, they are completely different, as centre midfielders especially.
Arteta isn’t this central attacking midfielder people make him out to be, he can do it because he has high levels of technical ability and intelligence. But he’s much more at home infront of his back four, knitting things together and dictating the tempo of the game. A ’deep lying playmaker’ so to speak, or even a holding midfielder in English football. He was playing as deep as Neville when he played centre midfield last season.
Pienaar, on the other hand, is more attacking and better in the final third. He can’t keep hold of the ball like Mikel in deep positions but he does have more vision and creativity in the final third.
It is like comparing Xavi and Iniesta, two ’creative’ players who excel in different areas of the pitch.
The formation Dave Wilson mentions would be an interesting one to see. If we are looking to move Pienaar into a more central position, then for me, it’d have to be behind the main striker, in Cahill/Fellaini’s position. Two holding midfielders behind him (Rodwell, Arteta) and Anichebe and Bilyaletdinov outwide.
Anichebe gave a really good account of himself outwide last season and with that much quality and creativity in the midfield his pace, power and robustness would be much more effective than having someone like Osman, Fellaini or Cahill out there.
In terms of who should play central/wide midfield etc, I really hope Fellaini can develop into a good defensive midfielder over the next season or so, which will allow Cahill to move back to his attacking midfield role, because frankly he’s been fairly poor in a deeper role this season, and for me Arteta has to be the playmaker, with Peanuts and Billy out wide. The good thing about Arteta/Billy/Peanuts though is that they can all interchange, each is capable of playing across the midfield, which gives us a few options during a match, without having to necessarily use subs.
Get Pienaar signed up before the World Cup, in fact before Christmas!!
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1 Posted 03/12/2009 at 03:01:20
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