I agree. Everyone is entitled to critizise the players

But our defence is currently conceding three a game, our midfield is creating next to nothing, the whole team is riddled with self doubt... and you want to slaughter the kid given the thankless task of leading the line single handed.

A disappointingly stupid post, how can somebody so obviously well educated get through life without establishing the difference between an excuse and a reason.

I agree that he’s woefully sort of form and confidence at the moment, but would anyone argue that his contribution to the team would be FAR greater if he didn’t have to play upfront, alone, with a midfield usually MILES away from him? The hoofball we often resort to doesn’t paint him in a awfully good light either..

At CSKA he was a different player, mainly because that was a team who liked to attack in numbers, and when you have a quality striker like Wagner Love playing up there with you you’re free to drop off, pick up the ball along the ground, link it up with a number of players who are right there to move it around, and produce more efforts on goal. The majority of his strikes CSKA were just like this. Go onto Youtube and have a look for yourselves. He’s certainly capable of finding the back of the net given the right setup.

I can’t knock his attitude either. He ain't the paciest, sure, so he aint gonna get around the pitch like, say, Pienaar does, but it’s clear that he wants to play for the club. So in that regard I support him.

Question for the statisticians among us though... how often was he caught offside at CSKA? Because he seems new to the rule that's for sure!

I just can’t believe he’s Brazilian at times, more like fucking Breeze Hill. Now i’m not saying that Brazilians have this god given right to be a top footballer but every other I’ve seen play can at least control the ball and make things happen but this lad just stinks the place out every week, and what's all the shit with praying every time he fucks up, the man upstairs ain't gonna help — even he’s give up on him.

Why did we even bring him back? Apart from a few lucky goals he looked poor last season.

My mate said on Sunday ’he’s just an 18 million Marcus Bent’ which I thought was dreadfully harsh on Bent as at least he led the line well, had pace and would get the odd goal for you.

Well said, Andy Crooks. It’s fine to have an opinion one way or the other. as long as we don’t run down our own players at the game there is no harm in stating an opinion. It beggars belief that someone would bag their own team at a game. It has a negative effect on the team and unless you enjoy watching us get beaten you might as well stay home and abuse the television.

Ellen West - yes your absolutely right, they are all shit... when it suits us!

I cannot believe Mike Gwyer.....if you have been watching since the 70s are you perhaps blind?

The reason I ask, and I have been watching since 1982, and from then till now, there are some players who to be honest are not fit to lace Jo’s boots. Jo is 21 years old for god's sake, he isn’t even the finished article yet. And this crap about him being Brazilian, I mean ffs... so what, since when has that had anything to do with well.....anything? It has nothing to do with whether he is a decent footballer.... or not.

In order for a player to score you need to create chances, chances in the main come from your midfield, who have a wee bit of creativity; we have next to none. Jo is just a middle of the road striker, nothing more nothing less, he will score a few, he will miss a few — get over it...! The manager picks him, he plays....

I’ll start worrying when we sign Brett Angel or Stuart Barlow (at least Barlow ran round a bit).

Jo is young so perhaps Moyes could turn him into a versatile defensive midfielder?

This kind of thing makes me embarrassed to be an Evertonian to be honest, long gone are the days when our fans could be claimed to be ’knowledgable’.

No, nowadays it’s a baying mob, looking to pounce on whichever namby pamby overpaid footballer decides to use technique and ability as his wares instead of running around like a headless chicken. When you’ve just done twelve hourse sticking labels on tins or something it doesn;t fit in with the way you think players ’should’ play I guess....

Personally I look at Jo and see a quality, quality footballer, exactly the type I want more of at Everton and I think we should sign him on a perm toot sweet.

22 years old, bags of talent, a great appetite for the game and exactly the kind of footballing talent that will help take us to the mythical ’next level’ when surrounded by players of a similar ilk instead of workhorses. Just the players we still have missing through injury would help, Arteta the conductor will raise the level of all our midfielders and, in turn, this will help Jo flourish.

Top sides operate with 4 forwards, not 1 or 2. Guess what, they don;t have 4 identikit strikers either. There is this idea called ’options’. I think it’s pretty clear to everyone that bright now Jo isn;t a 20 goal a season forward. What he does have though are other attributes that our nother forwards do not. His touch(yes, really), movement, running of the channels, hold up play and spacial intelligence are first rate.

When Jo was taken off against Liverpool, a like-for-like, one-for-one, swap...the team performance went to bits. The domination we had enjoyed fizzled out and our attacks became sporadic. I am not suggesting for a second that Jo is THAT important to the team but it highlighted perfectly the importance and effect of his ability to hold the ball and bring the midfield into play.

There will be those who will contrast that with the Spurs subs and say that proves the opposite...i’d have to disagree. You cannot compare bringing two forwards on, changing system and playing in a kitchen sink, nothing to lose style to the situation against Liverpool.

Go back to last season, Chelsea away. One of the most controlled, composed and comfortable Everton performances in many a year against a top side on their patch. Jo had everything bar the goal that night and his performance gave a beautiful insight into what could be. There were numerous performances of that quality from him last season as lone striker....with results going badly though, and with a new scapegoat required...who better to pick on than the laid back Brazilian who doesn;t actually belong to the club!! I hate to say it but I think his colour also comes into this....it’s funny how none of the white lads are ever labelled ’lazy’. Shit maybe, but never lazy....I wonder

Maybe one day, if it ever happens, and Everton do start to hit the heights and compete then those of you whop have been starved of quality football for so long will finally hear the sound of a penny drop and realise what it is that makes top sides tick and what it is that sperates them from the rest. I can tell you now, it isn’t running around like a headless chicken and it isn;t employing forwards purely based on how many goals they score.

Jo is a top player and a top lad and he will continue to enjoy my full support and best wishes.

Stick their words down their throat Jo lad, just like lazy shit Yakubu has with his goals and just like ’too lightweight’ Stevie Pienaar has with his undeniably magnificent displays.

Maybe then, maybe when it is put beyond all doubt you will be ’ok’.

Ciaran, totally agree with you about Jo, (shhh don’t tell anyone), also agree with the right to criticise bad players and bad performances.

I do however think that some people criticise certain players regardless of performance. A certain Hibbo springs to mind, maybe your critics on here should point the finger at that lot instead.

I have to say that a lot of the criticism against Jo is unfair. He works hard but has no speed, has some clever skills but not as good as Saha. So far this season we have been desperate and that is why he plays. Saha cannot play a whole game due to his suspect injuries; and Yaks... well will he ever be the same? Who else is there?

Man City are the ones who have egg on their faces, they paid big money for him and he is basically a flop in the Prem. They will lose big time when they sell him. We should send him back down the East Lancs in January and try to get someone else on loan — dare I say Beattie? Or even Robbie Keane who is out of favour again at Spurs.

"Jo is a top player"...........Are you serious???? Hes fuckin pants!!!! I 1st watched Everton in 1973 (1-0 win against Arsenal) and I've seen some duffers in the intervening years but I'm struggling to think of too many who were as bad as this joker. At least it wasn't us who paid £18 million for him... what were they thinking??? CSKA must've laughed their cocks off when that particular cheque cleared!!!

"Personally I look at Jo and see a quality, quality footballer, exactly the type I want more of at Everton and I think we should sign him on a perm toot sweet"......hang your head in shame!!!!

I feel like Ciarán McGlone with all this cut and pasting!!!!

Here’s my problem with Jo; he has the ability to be good. There are the Tony Hibberts and the Leon Osmans of the world who aren’t the best footballers but they play their hearts out whenever they’re on the pitch. Jo, on the other hand, is lazy. He could be as good as Saha, i think, if he tried as hard as everyone else. I play pickup games at my college at least 4 times a week and I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone as lazy as Jo in any of those games. It is truly pitiful that he is getting playing time in the best football league in the world, I don’t get it.

With Osman being out the side the vultures have been circling the Goodison Park changing rooms looking for their next victim, and it looks like they’ve found it in Jo. Okay, I'm not his biggest fan but he’s only 21 and still has a lot to learn, and anyway, he won't be with us next season.

Very funny Ellen, John Holmes and agree with Jamie’s description of the type Jo is (including the shite bit).

I’d like to see more of Baxter and more of Agard too. And whilst shot down at start of season, I’d be more inclined to try Jo outwide.

Makes me laugh that people assume that because some have stopped slagging off a player because they’re not playing, then they’re suddenly "not as shit".

Let’s face facts - Osman is mediocre, Hibbert is below mediocre and Jo is barely a footballer. He must have had one blinding game in Russia in front of a City scout, and that’s about it!

There’s another explanation, of course. And that is he can’t play well because the Everton side as it is cannot accomodate his style of play as we’re depleted and lack quality.

That WOULD make sense - if he actually showed glimpses of quality that suggest he would thrive on better service (e.g. like the impressive Saha does.)

Unfortunately, he looks like he couldn’t kick his way out of a wet paper bag, even when afforded acres of space.

Evertonians generally don’t needlessly slate players, but they’re brutally honest (apart from the odd bleeding heart, "get behind the lads no matter what" types). Being brutally honest, there are players in our senior squad who are nowhere near good enough to be in an Everton side supposedly pushing for the upper echelons of the division - or in the case of Hibbert and Jo, not good enough to be depended on in a relegation fight at this level.

Take a deep breath, the guy is only a loan player after all. He’s not great but some of the attacks on him here are a tad over the top.

Complain if we decide to splash cash and buy him. The only reason the guy starts our matches is our better strikers, while skillful have the bodies of old men.

I’m pretty sure our comments on this site do not impact morale in the squad. I’d also imagine what we say has no impact on our manager’s decisions. Nor will our comments decide whether Moyes stays or goes. So I don’t think we have to worry about our opinions being so important that they may demoralise a player or the squad or the club.
I also think it is fine to use this as a forum to vent frustration about a player or a team performance. I don’t think that means you are not a supporter of the club.

Personally, what I really find useful on this site is thoughtful match analysis. In terms of analysis, what I’m looking for is a better understanding of what significant things are happening on the pitch in any given game, what developments people are seeing over a number of games, and what might address the problems people identify. I’m trying to get better at figuring out what is really working and identifying the real adjustments that are needed to improve things.

For example, there were a load of folks who decided Fellaini was crap at the start of this season. And who concluded that he could not play well with Cahill. During the Bolton game, I concluded he was crap and should be sold. And he WAS crap against Bolton. And Fellaini and Cahill WERE rubbish during this game. While these critiques were being aired, however, there were folks on this site that argued that both players could work on the same team if Fellaini were dropped deep and Cahill stationed in a more attacking role. Well, it turns out that was the more thoughtful and insightful analysis.

It appears a lot easier to evaluate than to analyze. Obviously we can slag everyone in the team off and rotate as folks put in crap performances. But will they have the authority of historical hindsight? Or will they look like knee-jerk and reactive calls?

And Jo is only on loan.

It’s no good slagging Jo off, the last time I looked David Moyes picks the team. What do you want Jo to do when his names on the teamsheet say " hey boss don’t play me I’m shit" Don’t think so. OK he’s not great but we’ve got him till at least the end of the season so get used to it. The Yak won’t be match fit till 2013 and Saha will be in and out like a blue arsed fly.

"No problem with criticism but don’t get on the players back at the match. "
---------------------

This I completely agree with, however this forum is not the match.

"and you want to slaughter the kid given the thankless task of leading the line single handed"

------------------------------

Yes I do dave...Perhaps you can explain the difference between an excuse and a reason whenever he falls over, gives the ball away, misses the target from 6 yards, misplaces a pass or runs a different direction from the way the pass is going...

Are you really suggesting there’s mitigation to be found for these personal innabilities? He can’t kick a ball because he’s up top on his own? Really? Dear Dave please explain..

I know you think you’re king of the underdog - but as the article states - when you gonna come to your fucking senses?

Neil Steele,

Priceless..

Having a go at those slating Jo..as lacking knowledge..then coming off with this classic..

"Personally I look at Jo and see a quality, quality footballer"

Quality.

"I hate to say it but I think his colour also comes into this....it’s funny how none of the white lads are ever labelled ’lazy’"

--------------------------

Oh dear....Neil steele. Shame on you.

I suppose it would be pretty pointless resenting such a defamatory statement from someone with such limited intelligence..

Mark Hill.

Hey cool it.

You like Jo I do not.

Just responding to a couple of your comments; “there are some players who to be honest are not fit to lace Jo’s boots”. Being helpful, I will ask you to name just one (I am waiting to hear Madar, no chance; he had a bit of weight about him. Amokachi, no way he got two goals against Spurs in FA cup semi. Barlow, nah I feel confident about handling a debate re Barlow V Jo).

“Jo is 21 years old….” And what does that mean. This is the EPL, the best and most expensive league in the world; he is an 18 million pound forward earning tens of thousands a week. It’s his job FFS.

For your info my reference to him being Brazilian is that you tend to think of craft, skill and balance when you mention the words Brazilian footballer. I guess we can leave Jo out of that sentence.

But hey, I guess I could have been a bit over dramatic, so I will leave out the “F” words when knocking our Jo in future. Additionally, I’m also aware that he will be here for one year only - Moyes has his faults but I’m sure he will have nothing to do with Jo come next May.

Lastly, please be aware, I also think Neill is a clumsy, lazy twat and Hibbert, though blue to bone, is a liability. We do have good un’s but that’s another discussion.

He needs to learn the offside rule; he needs to ask Saha how to shoot with power; he needs to ask the Yak how to not get brushed off the ball; he needs to stop getting over-excited when the ball comes near him, making him fall over; he needs to ask Arteta how to control a ball first time; he needs to ask Saha again how to get a shot on target; he needs to go back to City at the end of the season — I'd rather have Beattie at the moment... at least he would nut a Chelsea player on Saturday!

"King of the underdog" lol - I like it

"Perhaps you can explain the difference between excuse and reason" OK I’ll give it a go...

This kid grew up playing a different type of game, Yes, other South Americans have come to Europe before, but how many at such a tender age? in Brazil the strikers are revered, the game is all about keeping possession, looking for that one opportunity where a slide rule pass will release him, thats how he grew up. Can you imagine the culture shock? He doesn't have a partner, his service usually consist of Hibbert/Yobo/Jags/Distin launching a ball over his head, telling him to "get after that".

When he's not wrestling with the Zak Knights of this world — often just to try to prevnt him getting a clear header, he’s racing people like Ashley Cole to get to a ball that's heading towards the corner flag. His job should be made easier when the midfield arrives to support, only these days it doesn't arrive, his shooting is often feeble because he is exhausted, he falls over because he gets overpowered, he’s been asked to play the Drogba role, only he’s about 3 stone light.

Don't expect him to be Saha, he’s 10 years less experienced. He’s desperate to please.and will very often become over-anxious when opportunities finally come his way.

Whether it be in a Royal blue shirt, or even in this league, you can be very certain of one thing. This kid WILL come good.

In the meantime, if you're not happy with his performance, blame the manager, he asks too much from this kid.

Right Dave,

You’ve made a good case for the support to him being terrible..and him not being used to it...

Now can you make a case for his clear personal innabilities...you know, the stuff he does when HE has the ball...situations where no-one else can reasonably be implicated?

If you can do that, I’ll be impressed.

Because that was the issue I actually addressed.

Dave, I think that’s a pretty good analysis of why we’ve not seen the best of Jo. I fear that if the crowd continue to get on his back it will destroy him and, as you say, we will see him being good somewhere else.

"we will see him being good somewhere else. "
---------------------

Aye, Russia maybe!


I’d be willing to make a sizeable wager (for charitable purposes) that Jo will not make it at any club in the Premier League.

You obviously missed the bit about exhaustion and anxiety. Have you got any idea what it takes to play up front on your own in the EPL? These kids are not machines and if they expend all their energy chasing or challenging high brainless balls, how can we hope for them to be sharp and ready when the opportunity arises.

Gerd Muller used to say, "somebody else can do the donkey work" when opportunities present themselves, I want to be razor sharp, not exhausted.

Der Bomber would not have entertained the idea of playing for Moyes.

Dave.

Discussion aside.

Jo and Gerd Muller in the same breath!!!

Are you Jo’s agent?

Mike, I wasn't putting them in the same league/breath, I was relaying the thoughts of one of the games truely great strikers...

Was he wrong?

Gerd Muller - no comment required. A true striker. The Yak, 12 months ago, had a similiar view regarding "donkey work".

Jo - I doubt he would be any good if you left him in the penalty area with no opposition, no offside rules and the ball placed for him, hence not passed to him. Guess this covers any required "donkey work".

Really Dave the above is all laughable as Jo will continue bossing our front line till either Saha, the Yak or Anichebe are fully fit.

’You obviously missed the bit about exhaustion and anxiety
Have you got any idea what it takes to play up front on your own in the EPL ?’
--------------------

So he regularly fails to hit the target from six yards..because he’s anxious, and tired? And this anxiety and tiredness is so prevalent that you think that’s an acceptable mitigation for his performances — from when he joined this club a season and a half ago?

I guess I should re-write the article then... It’s not a matter of not wanting shit strikers in our team, it’s a matter of not wanting ’wee willie winky’ strikers who are so tired and anxious that they look completely out of their depth..

I stand corrected, the poor guy is tired and emotional...

CHRIST.

Totally agree with Dave Wilson. Football is a totally different animal in different leagues. Jo has never played in a 4-5-1 before coming to England.

Being asked to control the ball with your neck or even mid-height with no chance of being able ot lay off with one touch due to being isolated isn’t his fault.

Ciaran, how many times have you seen that arise rather than having 3 different options so that defenders cannot get too tight as they may leave space in behind?

He makes basic errors at times which is terribly frustrating but he has played a different style since he started football to the hurly burly of the Prem. He may not come good, neither did Forlan but he may go on to achieve great things in other leagues.

To assess the guy on the dross that has been served up in open play from Everton this year is knee-jerk to say the least. Give him 10 starts with a forward partner and then evaluate him.

I find your outlook on Football to be very one dimensional and simplistic and your tone with people that have contrary points of view quite condescending considering the negativity you constantly espouse.

You can over-analyse this one to death Paul..in a search for justifiacation..

.....but the bottom line is that I am judging him on what he does once he gets the ball...

And the end result is invariably poor..

Ciarán, how do you define "making it"? There are a few, now I’m not yet one of them, who think he’s making it at Everton. Maybe David Moyes is one of them.

I’m merely stating the blindingly obvious - at least to those who understand the game.

If you run a striker into the ground, he will not be able to perform his primary duties to the best of his ability, Jo is just like every other lone striker, but he has the added handicap of a pedestrian midfiled to back him up,

The FACT is the more you put on him the less likely he is to be able to perform.

Never played the game eh? I would never have fucken guessed

I try not to get involved in discussions like this because (like Jo) I am on a hiding to nothing, some people have pre-determined opinions and nothing will change their minds - not even better performances by said players.

Now Jo has widely been acknowledged as playing his best few games this season over the last week - so lets have a thread slagging him off shall we!

We’ll start with the basics — Jo didn’t set the price tag — that’s what someone else pays, he can’t help it, it’s not his decision. Simialr to Fellaini, what people have paid for him means nothing (it's mainly cos he’s 21 and has lots of potential anyway!).

Secondly, you can’t have watched the last few games if you believe all you’ve written Cieran, as the (offside) goal against Liverpool, the hold-up play for Bily's goal in Athens, and some of his movement and play in the first half against Spurs where excellent.

Ok, sometimes his touch lets him down, but as a striker myself, I have often found that when you get isolated, rather than just controling the ball and holding on to it, you feel you have to do more, so you try to do too mcuh with your first touch as otherwise you will be closed down and lose the ball anyway!

Offside too often — ok a problem, but this is often caused by him starting his run too soon, which could equally be the fault of the midfield player not passing the ball soon enough. Anticipation is learnt by playing frequently with the same players, nothing else, so chopping and changing midfield and forwards means this will happen occasionally.

As for the comment about failing to hit the target from 6 yards, well you show me the frequent examples when he has done this under no pressure and not with a quck snapshot. He hasn’t missed a hatful of glorious chances to score, he has missed a few decent efforts that he has created himself.

So I say lay off Jo and see him for what he is — not what you think he should be!

Without question he is the worst player I have seen in an Everton Shirt and I have been saying it since about 3 weeks after he arrived. He can’t tackle, can’t head the ball, no pace, no strength and as such can’t take anyone on. About as bad a set of attributes you could give a centre forward in England.

Seems a happy fella though... GET RID QUICK!

"I’m merely stating the blindingly obvious - at least to those who understand the game"
---------------------

No, you’re not. You’re stating your opinion... backed up by irrelevant evidence — that simply doesn’t even start to address the questions I asked you..

And don’t pull the old "those who know the game" ballicks with me... As if your opinion is gospel.. It isn’t — and neither is mine... they’re simply opinions. Mine has a self-evident basis - yours requires a somewhat contrived analysis of the game, and avoids the basic issue..

As for the ’you haven’t played the game’.... Maybe those who have played the game and were deemed not at the required level - automatically have more sympathy with such a player, and are ill equipped to make such a hard nosed analysis...eh Dave?

Chris Briddon - your analysis of Jo’s performance against Spurs seems to be in the minority — not mine... Have you watched the last few games?

So its merely my opinion that, if you work a striker into the ground, you won't get the best out of him?

That’s hardly what I said.

It’s merely your opinion that this is the reason why he continually and consistently fails to do the things any striker should be able to do.

Nice attempt though.

When you’ve established the difference between reason and excuse; get to work on the blindingly obvious and an opinion.

I shall ask again - Based on Jo’s performances for us in the second half of last season, who was unhappy to see him sign on loan for another year??

Be honest and look back at the games he played last season and the goals he scored. Most pundits saying he looks like a player under Moyes etc etc.

He had lost all confidence at City!

Again, I know that based on this seasons peformances he has looked less than convincing; however, does he just need a couple of goals, get his confidence up and maybe finish the season like the last??

I know constructive comments are not always welcome here but I thought I would try!

And by the way, just to address your little tangent — suggesting he’s been worked into the ground — is just balls.

Apart from the fact that he rarely moves... We don’t actually play with a flat midfield as you well know. When we have the ball, we effectively play with a front 4 - so how anyone can say Jo is isolated in attack is beyond me...

Now you may have a point in regards to our reversion to hoofball... but again, I’ll point you to the premise of the article... it is about how JO PERFORMS WITH THE BALL WHEN HE GETS IT!!!!!

Jo is utter shite.

"I shall ask again - Based on Jo’s performances for us in the second half of last season, who was unhappy to see him sign on loan for another year??"
--------------------------------

I think he has been poor for the entire time he’s been here..and I’m on record (on this site) as having that opinion...

So I simply don’t accept your assertion that he was good during the second half of last season... You're contrary to what I've seen with my own eyes..

So me, for one...

Dave,

The ’blindingly obvious’ - and your OPINION that the blindingly obvious is the reasoning for JO’s poor form are not the same thing...

Don’t ask people to learn subtleties you’re having difficulty with yourself..

I wonder if Jo would be any good playing in the the Arsenal team?

Just a thought..

Christian, you can put me in the unhappy bracket aswell.
Also, at the risk of facing the editors wrath, I think I can speak for Peter Mchugh aswell.

Gareth, I can not understand why you think Peter would fall into the unhappy bracket!

Ah well I guess I am fighting a losing battle.....So I will move on to my next campaign... Bring back Franny Jeffers.

Any support for that one?

You come on here excercising your right to talk shite, nobody denies you that right, you were even supported by the editor, who lets face it, after his recent "Galoot" post was hardly likely to oppose you.

But be of no doubt, shite is what you spouted and just as you have a right to spout it, others have a right to expose it,

Even at such a young age Jo is a Brazillian international, he has scored 92 goals in 162 games for CSK, Corintians and Everton, he is one of the most expensive youngsters on the planet, he hasn't even begun to reach his true potential, yet you — someone who admits to never having played the game — feel qualified to slaughter him.

Go find a quiet area and ask yourself why so many strikers with very good records come to play for Moyes and end up half the player they were when they first arrived.

If you come to the conclusion that Moyes doesn't know how to utilise their talent and tries to turn them into something they are not — usually packing mules — you will be on the path to enlightenment, you will also have identified the real problem here.

I’m one of those infuriating people that Ciaran dislies, and refers to in his latest rant, sorry I mean, post because I always encourage and believe that encouragement is the only thing that makes people better at what they do - football or otherwise.

As a result I usually get shot down in flames for it, but there you go, positivity never did me any harm.

As for Jo - well he’s a good player, but not playing well, and I believe he has the ability and could (yes, could) come good. While we have no other fit strikers he’s clearly our best option, even if he does struggle with barn doors & banJo’s (you see what I did there?)

As we’re on the subject of poor players, could I possibly highlight the player who I believe is the worst player to pull on a blue shirt in my lifetime? Ladies & Gentlemen, I give you..........Mr Dan Gosling! He has zero ability, and is an absolute shocker of a player who scares the hell out of me every time he plays.

I was genuinely pleased when he pulled up against Athens - and there goes my positivity out the window eh.

Like Ellen said, everyone on Evertons books is shit, and we have nothing to live for anymore.

Goodnight.

In actual fact, Jo has improved in effort and pace the last couple of games but why oh why is he always off side?

In actual fact, Jo has improved in effort and pace the last couple of games but why oh why is he always off side?

In actual fact, Jo has improved in effort and pace the last couple of games but why oh why is he always off side?

In actual fact, Jo has improved in effort and pace the last couple of games but why oh why is he always off side?

Nothing like repeating yourself is there? Don’t know how that happened... I am obviously not as good on the computer as I thought I was!!! Just like Jo isn’t as good at football as he thinks he is !!

Dave that old chestnut about strikers not performing under Moyes is bollocks.
Yakubu a perfect point - scores goals everywhere - including here by becoming the first man to score 20 since Peter Beardsley. Saha still scores.
Johnson was less than proficient at palace, wasn’t here and isn’t at Fulham. Ditto James Beattie at his present and former clubs.


Brazillian international - irrelevant. So is Lucas.
Also irrellevant is his goalscoring record in the powerhouse leagues of Rusia & Brazil.
Moyes tends to getsthe best out of decent players if they wany it - ask Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar e.t.c.
This lad is a pure joke of a footballer and it is at our expense.

Dave,

I will be in doubt as to the ’shite’ level of my opinion...if you don’t mind.

At least until someone can provide any compelling argument to contradict what I’ve posted...You’ve been asked several times to provide that reasoning...and you’ve stooped to telling me I haven’t played football, blaming Jo’s personal deficiencies on the rest of the team, the time old classic of purporting yourself to be an expert...and hence, right, and now your indicating that it’s Moyes fault!

On the basis that he ruined what previous strikers? A Limited AJ or Beattie...or a wasteful mcfadden?

Dave,

Once and for all....If you fancy explaining why Jo is not to blame for his poor touch, shot and vision...please feel free..

I’m sure with your great knowledge and understanding of the game you could come up with something that’s a little more tanglible than ’anxiety’ and ’tiredness’..

Still pissing myself at those two...


ps: When you’re doing this, please remember that this is not the Russian league, a popularity contest, or that the measure of a footballer is based upon how much some fool is willing to pay for them!

James,

You always give people encouragement? yet in the next paragraph you hammer Gosling?

Really?

P.S I don’t dislike you...I don’t know where you got that one from. Pull yourself together man...Differing opinion is healthy.

Another vote for Gosling being the worst Everton player.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say ever but definitely the current one.

I agree with the point of the OP’s post Jo is rubbish but the "He’s got the touch of a rapist" part, well you sound like someone who reveals in hurling verbal abuse at those that are in some way irriatable to you Ciarán, which you do quite a lot on TW. Jo is a Man City player lets send him back and give some of youngins a try, couldnt hurt, we might even unearth some more gems.

I should qualify that for anybody who missed Mr Neill Steele’s rather edifying post...

Anybody who suggests, without any evidence whatsoever - that the opinions expressed in this article and the resultant posts are driven by racism - needs a good boot up the arse.

Amusing the posts and replies, a few questions:

Why can’t a player who is 6’ 2.5" not jump for a header?

Why does a 6’ 2.5" 22 year old go down at the drop of a hat when players of a much smaller stature not?

How many goals are acceptable from a striker per season? 10? 15? 20?

Everton didn’t pay £18m for him but how much is he costing in wages for goals returned? I ask this as Dunc is often written about as costing so much per goal delivered.

Dave, so not being able to actually control a ball, is that down to being tired?

Not being able to hit a barn door, is that being down to being tired?

Getting caught offside, numerous times in a game, is that being down to being tired?

I dont need to call a player bad by using the term rapist, since when is that a footballing term mate? What did you mean by that exactly? Care to explain? "the touch of a rapist"??? No I still dont get in, enlighten me please?

Yet another Cairan-type battle thread [sigh!...]. A few points:

Anthony Doran: Google "touch of a rapist" (with quotes).... What tops the list? Urban Dictionary: "Someone whose first touch in football is utterly wank!"

While distasteful at a certain level, it is an established "urban" phrase... Go Figure! So Cairan was spot on with that.

Second: Dave Wilson and this "if you understand the game" shite. Honestly, I am going to ban people who stoop to using that pathetic claim as a plank for their opinions (and yes, Cairan is spot on again — all you are spouting is opinions). Wind your fucking neck in please.

And finally a serious warning to Neil Steele: racism is abhorrent... but accusing others of racist overtones as yet another way of denigrating an opinion you disagree with with is utterly contemptible and is not acceptable on this website.

Now I’m deleting the more stupid responses above... if you people can’t play nice, I will take stronger action.

When we originally were being linked with Jo, I must admit to being extremely excited at the thought of some Samba magic at Goodison.

Then reality struck!
Jo is not Premiership material.
Ciaran’s quote "Touch of a rapist" Completely sums him up.
We are a long ball merchant team most of the time, and with him leading the line it clearly does not stick.
People argue he is not suited to our style of football - Fine I can buy that a bit.
But if he is not suited to our style - Get him fucking out of our club, as we will not change our style for him.

Sorry I dont read the ’Urban Dictionary’ Michael, TW has become quite a place for vulgar persons and their slang terms, more power to you! Good luck reading your Dictionaries lads ;)

Post deleted? ;)

I think many of us, myself included have over-reacted this season to the very disappointing run of results all started by the disastrous opening day and the Lescott affair.

Many of the players have gotten stick sometimes unfairly and sometimes over the top. Yes, they are the ones earning the big paydays and yes they should be producing their best. Some of them are doing just that but sadly for some of them it’s not good enough for what we want at Everton.

Moyes is also to blame despite the injuries. Some of the players don’t know what postion they are supposed to play and some of them are just not suited to the positions they play in.

Moyes has been using a band-aid process in recent weeks far more than any other manager in the Prem. We are not expected to get anything from Chelsea this week so let’s give the stick a rest. On the January front I don’t think Donavon is going to help matters apart from the fact he will be an extra experienced body like Neill and Hetinga.

"Touch of a rapist" has deffo been around since the early 90s. we used to call Andy Hinchcliffe "Sutcliffe". Ho ho ho.

Mr Doran, stop being so precious, yer great nance.

Jo could be the star in the Blaxploitation version of Bambi on Ice (I am not a racist). And what’s with the gloves? He must have froze his arse off in Moscow...

Gareth, you talk about the "powerhouse league "of Russia. Well, how would you fancy the current Everton eleven against CSK? In fact, how would you fancy them against Corinthians?

Dave Wilson, despite your reasoned arguments you are wasting your time on this one. Time will tell, and Ciarán, despite the fact that I agree with you more often than not, prepare for a mighty helping of humble pie. Jo will come good.

So

when I state that the extra burden Moyes places on a striker will very definitely have a detrimental effect on his ability to perform, I’m not stating the blindingly obvious, I’m merely expressing an opinion . . .hmm

However

When Ciarán whines about "glass half full brigade’s unending reservation" "despite the bleeding obvious" you wholeheartedly agree with him. ?

And its not OK to question the judgment of somebody, who by his own admission has never played the game,
but its ok for the guy who has never played the game to tell anybody who disagrees to come to their fucking senses ?

The problem with football supporters is that players go from hero to zero from game to game, and most of us have got very short memories. I remember when Chelsea first got Drogba, everyone including the so-called experts like Hansen were calling him a dog poor touch no awareness etc etc, and asking why Chelsea bought him. And at the time it rung true he was only famous for his diving. 3-4 years on who wouldn’t want him in their side?

Jo may or may not be a success at Everton, but will that be his fault? He’s currently asked to be a Sharpe/Ferguson target man, and he won’t be that while he’s got a hole in his arse. What we do know about him is that he’s scored shed loads of goals in Russia, and has impressed a good number of football coaches. And to the poster that said he was the worst striker that he’s seen at Everton, you obviously don’t get to the match very often.

Sorry you take such offence to my point Michael. I have not accused anyone of racism, I have merely asked the question. I find it strange that only black players at Everton are ever labelled ’lazy’....seems stereotypical to me and I hear it all too often.

Furthermore, from where I sit in the Gwladys St I have heard clear outright racist comments so please, don’t pretend it doesn’t go on.

If anyone did think I was levelling an allegation at them personally then I apologise for that, I make no apology for asking a question about a subject that you obviously class as ’taboo’ though. I have crossed no line and made no accusations, if racism isn't a subject you want mentioned on your site then put it in the t’s and c’s, give me more credit that using it do denigrate an argument though, that is bang out of line.

Andy Crooks, what has a potential match between Everton and CSKA/Corinthians got to do with it? Zip. My point is that it is far easier to score in those leagues than it is in the Premier League.

The problem is, Neil, as soon as you even suggest a connection like that, you automatically stigmatise use of the term such that no player of colour can be called lazy because to do so means you are a racist, and effectively neutralizes any discussion of what may be a perfectly valid observation. That is the effect, whether intended or not, and I'm asking you to be a little smarter about making such associations.

Yes, there are racists at Goodison Park; that’s a different thread.

Is Jo’s languid style of play and seeming inability to chase a ball something — anything — to do with the colour of his skin? ... Why even go there?

Neil, you will probalby find that most Evertonians are still Knowledgable, especially the ones who can see that Jo is fucking shite!!!

I agree Ciaran. Fuck me, never thought I'd say that...

Neil, Nyarko was lazy. One of Yakubu’s characteristics is laziness - but something he’s worked on under Moyes. Jo is definitely lazy, but breaks into a trot every so often in recent games.

But on the flip side, Berbatov is lazy. Kris Boyd is lazy. Van Nistelrooy is lazy. By the by, they’re white.

It’s the type of footballer that comes under criticism - nothing to do with skin colour. It is simply coincidence that those types of players at Everton recently and currently happen to be black.

Think about it, nobody accused Kevin Campbell, Joleon Lescott or Danny Cadamarteri (lol) of being lazy.

Don’t want to prolong this thread any longer as it’s been done to death - but the suggestion that you need to have played the game to Dave Wilson’s level in order to comment on a player’s capabilities is probably the most bizzarre thing I’ve ever heard.

Fancy doing your own article on this suggestion Dave?

I’d love to hear the responses to that...

I agree ciaran. Fuck me, never thought id say that
--------------

Don’t worry Simon - it’s a regular turn of phrase..

The most bizzarre thing you’ve ever heard?

You have lead a sheltered life.

I’m busy today, but if Michael will put it out I think can put together a pretty convincing argument.

I too would love to hear the responses.

Haha..

Glad you’ve taken up the gauntlet Dave.. Never one to shirk from a challenge. I just hope you don't succeed — because effectively it means the death of football opinions — and that Jason Mcatteer knows what he’s talking about...

P.S I have played football for underage league teams... I just never played it to any level as we were not allowed to play ’garrison games’ in school — And therefore I concentrated on my national sport....

Ciaran - if you were to read my post again, you’d find that I’m self aware enough to have mentioned the fact when I stated ’I was genuinely pleased when he pulled up against Athens - and there goes my positivity out the window eh?

Fair enough Michael, I appreciate your response and I appreciate your honesty.

I can only reassure you of my honest intentions.

What I see right now are baseless criticisms that are speading like wildfire, many of the people making them clearly either not watching the player from a seat inside the ground or just follwing the lead of others.

Maybe I am taking it all to heart too much but I am a massive fan of Jo.

I think he is a superb footballer and he should be given support and encouragement, not a slaughtering for being incapable of performing the nigh on impossible.

In recent weeks I have heard him lambasted for not kicking the keepers head in on 60/40 againsts, for failing to control balls 10 feet over his head, for being unable to flick the ball on to himself and outmuscle 2 defenders and for failing to score goals despite being given fuck all service.

Maybe the racism thing was a bit close to the bone but I am hurt by some of the direct comments I have heard from some people who sit near me that fall precisely into that category. If and when I identify them I will do the right thing, of that you can be sure.

In the meantime I just wish people would give the kid a chance, honestly, I am baffled by this one.

Beattie, I agree, load of shite. Jo is exactly awhat Everton should be about though, technique over tenacity, give the lad a break and he will shine, mark my words...

He’s had a year and a half — how long do you want us to give him a chance for?

The criticisms are not baseless... your optimism however, is!