Just a side note - not a question of whether the buy outs have turned out successful (Pompey for example) but more a question of why we dont even get any concrete enquiries!

We are NOT for sale, thus the reason for there being no concrete enquiries. Anyway, even if we were, who in their right mind would want to buy the Aldi’s of the football world! Everton is not an attractive club with an attractive stadium with star quality players hence being a little like Aldi — although buying their bog roll in bulk is great!

Because we’re not for sale.

So where will our money come from to sign Messi?

You beat me to it Ciaran are we for sale?

Hi Jamie,

If you look back through the archives, you’ll find a post from someone who claimed that we were approached by Munto before they eventually ended up at Notts County. From what I remember, the poster railed against Bill Kenwright for either being too stupid to recognise how honoured Everton were to be approached, or too arrogant to even give them the time of day.

There but for the grace of god, eh... not that anyone will give Kenwright credit for spotting a shower of chancers when he sees one (and maybe it takes one to know one!).

Man City aside, how many of these takeovers in recent years have actually been a success? Either the clubs haven’t prospered, or the fans aren’t happy (or both in Liverpool’s case). Man Utd (the latter), Aston Villa (the former), Portsmouth (both), West Ham (both), QPR (both) etc. etc. etc.

I think, unless you get an Abramovich-style billionaire on board, takeovers are pretty doomed these days. All you end up doing is spending bigger sums of money to achieve the same level of success (Aston Villa, Spurs, Liverpool et al). God knows Bill isn’t perfect, but be careful what you wish for!

I read the story regarding Notts County’s comedy ownership issues and thought it was a reason not to sell to a group of dubious overseas investors.

Depends on how much you want to believe Kenwright; however, there were stories that he met with the consortium that bought Notts County and who are now bailing, but walked away as he didn’t trust their intensions.

The answer to the question, why can’t we find a buyer, is that the kind of buyer Kenright wants doesn’t exist, which basically echos Ciaran’s statement that we’re not for sale.

I’m with you Decland. None of the take-overs you mention have had a happy ending and in the present economic climate their future doesn’t look too rosy either. I doubt that BK looks at things that way but then that’s another story. A billionaire is no good — unless you can give him instant success and a return on his investment. What we need is a billionaire who is potty about footy — i.e. Abramovich or maybe his son, uncle, father in law etc.

The Kenwright apologists will point out the failed ventures in terms of investment in football clubs, but the fact is that the investment was there to be negotiated with. Even Kenwright himself admits that at any one time he’s in contact with multiple parties, but throws them all away.

That is because, simply, Everton Football Club is not for sale in the traditional sense, because Kenwright holds so much power and stability that he can pick and choose the offers.

It would take a ludicrous bid to part "Blue Bill" from Everton, something like an Abrahmovic bid, because he’s looking to make a collossal profit from us. That is a double-edged sword, because on one hand it guarantees we won’t get a Portsmouth type of takeover, but on the other hand it guarantees we won’t get NO type of takeover, because the investment Kenwright wants simply doesn’t exist — especially given the amount of additional investment Everton would need post-takeover.

Put bluntly, we’re not for sale and we won’t be for the foreseeable future; by that, I mean the next 10 years.

If, as you say, Lee, we won't be sold in the next 10 years... where will that put us in footballing terms?

Being completely honest, it just means we’ll be hanging on mid-table in the Premier League for 10 years — Goodison's demise is vastly oversold to the public, as it can still seat people and Evertonians will come and watch the lads, no matter how archaic it has become as a ground.

We’ll be stagnant, basically. In my personal opinion, it’s very unlikely that Everton will win anything at all in the next 20 to 30 years the way things currently are — because English football is being shaped by the economic activity that is taking place right now, and we’re missing the boat.

Declan,

Happy Endings? Man Utd have won 3 titles and a European Cup in the time following the Glazer’s takeover. Despite the initial uproar, the fans are fairly settled and couldn't give two shits providing their club maintains its position as an elite club in world football.

Villa, their fans are delighted. They’ve made huge progress since Lerner came onboard and allowed O’Neill to buy well.

City fans are obviously very happy.

Chelsea fans are obviously very happy.

Sunderland fans are very happy with Ellis and Bruce’s leadership.

Be careful what i wish for? I wish for another summer of stagnation and watching great players go to inferior clubs with superior ambitions. That’s one wish very likely to happen...

To use an apologist’s own weapons against them - Declan can you tell us what makes you think you know exactly what went on at Notts County? There is a hell of a lot more that went on behind the scenes than just what has been posted in shitty red tops. Ask yourself why one key player involved in the sale, Peter Trembling, used to do for a job and why he left that employer?

As Phil quite rightly pointed out, how disasterous has it been for Man Utd? How upset are Villa fans? How disheartened are Man City? There have been many threads recently asking a straight forward question as to whether or not BK is actually selling the club and I’ve not been able to find HIM actually say it himself, I can find plenty of tripe using the phrase "investment" which is very different and you should ask yourself if that word rather than "for sale" is the instant QED to why Everton haven’t been sold.

I’ve also said as others have that if BK was to sell the club tomorrow for £30m he would have made £10m profit on his original borrowed £20m he bought the club with, a £1m per year profit isn’t bad, or give him some greed and say double his money £40m with a profit of £2m a year. Investors won’t give you a penny unless they get tangible returns — not half-arsed promises and what-ifs.

We are not for sale. It’s as simple as that. Certainly not while the Kirkby fiasco is still up in the air anyway.

Maybe Notts County are up for sale as the people involved want to buy Everton and cannot be involved with 2 Clubs simultaneously.

I don’t know enough about the owners of Notts County to possibly comment whether that would be a good thing for Everton, but stranger things have happened..... Watch This Space! hahahaha

EFC is not a sensible business proposition. Neither is any other Premier League club. The return on investment for any of them is meagre to non-existent.

The people who have bought the clubs have no hope of making a profit except in the unlikely event that the value of the club increases during the period of their ownership. That can only happen if the more popular "brands" are allowed to sell their own TV rights. Since that’s controlled by a majority of the chairman of the less popular "brands" they shouldn’t hold their collective breath.

A Jock told me that winning the SPL gets you £1m whilst relegation from the EPL gets you £17m. Don’t know how true it is but the difference, whatever it is, is all about TV revenues.

Souness was banging on about meltdown for LFC and everyone in the press thought it was OTT. Really? Without the cash and the exposure that CL involvement bring they will not be able to pay the wages. If they can’t pay wages they won’t be able to sign better players. If they can’t sign better players, etc.

If people really understand all of this they would appreciate the miracle that’s been going on financially at Goodison Park in the past 7 years.

Leaving the Blues out of it and looking at the future, why do people write off change in the current pecking order so easily?

Chelsea are coming to the end of an era in terms of ageing players, English players who give you something essential in the PL. Will the Russian be prepared to drop another £200m to keep up?

I’ve mentioned LFC.

Arsenal have benefitted from Wenger’s ability to pick up exciting young cheap talent and sell them on. What happens when he goes and the flow dries up?

Man U are currently able to play any combination of their squad and look equally good but they are way below what they were capable of in recent times and, in my view declining slowly. What happens when Ferguson retires or worse, stays beyond his shelf-life?

Good management and sound financial support that doesn’t leave the club in a hole will continue to move EFC forward. Personally, the last thing we need is a shady sugar daddy. Maybe when BK talks about "investment" he is talking about securing a bit more cash to go into the structure that has been operating in recent years rather than a big buyout where little of the cash would go into improving the team.

Well there’s a pointless discussion with people securely dug into a trench from the beginning.

Bearing in mind I’m not actually stating an opinion on Kenwright, the OP makes a ridiculous assumption, namely that finding a buyer is automatically a good thing. This seems to be a stick that Kenwright haters want to beat him with.

Kenwright has repeatedly talked about finding the right kind of buyer. Using the example of clubs who’ve found buyers (hooray!) only for those buyers to sell them on pretty sharpish (oh... hang on) makes Kenwright look like more of a good thing, not less.

Portsmouth are a disaster, West Ham are struggling badly and Notts County are 4th in League 2 having achieved absolutely nothing and are about to change owners again. Man United, Arsenal and Liverpool were all established Champions League clubs already and so I’m afraid we don’t really compare to them in the first place.

We do compare to Villa, Man City and Sunderland however, so I suggest the discussion focuses on comparisons with them. Sunderland seem to have found incredible sums of money in the last few years, and only this season have spent it well (not to say I told you so but Cana’s turned out okay for them).

Man City is a bit of a freak event, and is comparable only to Abramovich’s purchase of Chelsea, did we have a chance of attracting those investors? I’ve no idea.

And Villa are going for the steady, stable progress route, a model I would suggest they’ve learned from Everton, consistently the 5th best team in England for the last few seasons.

Having rambled on a bit my two main points are:

1) Some of you are way over the top in your assessment of evil Bill Kenwright and his dastardly holding us back for his own selfish reasons in the face of genuine offers from people who would take us forward; there’s just no evidence that that is happening.

2) Taking anything from that Notts County story as relevant to our situation is ridiculous.

Who would buy Everton Football Club — and why?

Why does the Abu Dhabi Investment Group own MCFC? Why does Abramovich own CFC? To make money?

Pornographers, drug barons and money launderers are always on the lookout for a safe place to stash the cash. A PL club? Surely not — we have such ’fit and proper’ rules to guard against that surely. Ho bloody ho.

The Abu Dhabi one still interests me. OK, so they have more legit money than they know what to do with. Buy MCFC, peanuts, offer £XX million for Kaka, petty cash, etc. But why? I have my own thoughts on this matter which I will keep to myself.

In these threads I have been taken to task for being suspicious of ’overseas’ buyers. As with any potential buyer, I would always wonder why they wanted to own this club. To make money? To transform it into a super business model which in a — 'scuse me — Tesco manner will show the rest of them how its done?

Investment? In a PL context, can anyone explain what that means?

'It would take a ludicrous bid to part "Blue Bill" from Everton, something like an Abrahmovic bid, because he’s looking to make a collossal profit from us.' — Interesting viewpoint.

So is it

a) he sees Everton Football Club as a money making opportunity and something to set him up to buy an island in the Carribean Or
b) he is a lifelong Evertonian and if he wants his beloved club to really be successful, wants a shedful of money invested into the club

Take your pick fellow Toffeewebbers. I know if it was me which would be the reason if I was in Bill’s position as to why I haven’t sold.

We don’t know which it is —- and maybe we never will.

So Mike, BK says he is looking for the right kind of buyer, but he also then says he is looking for investment, which one is it?

I dunno. Maybe its both. What’s your point?

Sorry Jamie, not meaning to be obtuse, but you’ve rattled off a long list of clubs that have changed hands and just one of them, Villa, can remotely be seen as either successful or relevant.

What is your point exactly? What if Kenwright saw through many of these chancers? people like you just assume he’s screwing up somehow by mere dint of Everton not changing hands.

Perhaps you’d have liked a nice billionaire like Mike Ashley to have taken over (I bet you would), and then installed Dennis Wise as Director of Confrontation and overseen our drop into the championship. Maybe you’d prefer to have someone buy the club and have the fans pay for their loan through higher prices, giving absolutely nothing to the club.

Or maybe you’re just so dissatisfied with Kenwright that you’ll take absolutely anybody, Notts County’s owners (who make the CIA look transparent), or perhaps a few fake arab billionaires a la Pompey (on verge of administration), or perhaps Flavio Briatore could transfer some of his Latin flair and craziness from QPR to Goodison and sack managers every 6 months. Or, I know, how about an Icelandic billionaire who’s actually skint and we end up being owned by 13 insolvent banks and then propositioned by 2 porn kings.

You appear to be one of many on ToffeeWeb who despise Kenwright so much that you never stop to consider if it could actually be worse.

Of course it fucking could. Just ask the fans of Portsmouth, West Ham, Liverpool, Leeds, Nots County, QPR and even Man Utd (who are feeling the pinch because the have to find more money each season just to pay the interest (not the principle) on the Glazers’ loans).

As always, be careful what you wish for. Some silver linings hide big black clouds.

Keith Glazzard - Just how long do you think it will take Abramovich to get a return on his £800m investment in Chelsea? You do not buy a club with a stadium that holds 40,000, then buy almost every payer you want at crazy prices, then put most of the players on basic salaries of over £6m a year (with a squad of over 40) if you want to make money.

Chelsea has a unique setting and is a plaything. It may also have other less transparent uses for its owner.

Alan - I’m only a lowly economist, not a tax lawyer, but I think we are saying much the same thing here.

Abramovich has a saleable asset in West London should the likes of Putin (a dead ringer for Tony Hibbert) come after him. He has the four most expensive yachts in the world, I am told. Why, I don’t know. They may be depreciating, but I would guess that Putin can’t touch them or his CFC holding...

Emirate states in East Manchester? Oil runs out one day. Real estate doesn’t. I have no idea what this business organisation is doing, but I’ll bet that MCFC is a very small part of it.

So back to my usual question — who do we want to be bought by? And why?

With the amount of fuck-ups Kenwright has made, who is he to decide who are the right people to buy and run our club?

In theory Ste it is his choice. Or is it Sir Phillip’s (Green).

Nice to know that Alan is shifting the paradigm in an attempt to shore up Mr Kenwright's position.

Phil Martin, you missed out Spurs, they are doing quite nicely under ENIC.

The Kirkby project would have made Everton a much better prospect to investors yet it caused Bill to be unmercifully hammered over it.

Now that Kirkby is no longer an option Bill is still being unmercifully hammered but this time it is for NOT making a better prospect to investors.

There seems no pleasing some people, especially when they carry some kind of pathological hatred for the man.

Has Ste seriously just asked the question, to paraphrase — ’How can the owner of this club decide who owns it?’

Totally devoid of fuck-ups in my life — as Ste must be himself — I have personally vetted everyone who has offered money to buy my former homes to make sure that they wouldn’t change my tasteful decor.

That’s the way to treat them.

Dick: It's nothing personal, but would you have any respect for Bill, if he was your boss at your place of work? If he was my boss I would have absolutely no respect for him at all. Why? because he is incompetent — two failed ground moves says it all.

Keith, Kenwright has made so many mistakes during his tenure I wouldn’t trust him were anything is concerned. Anyway, with his reputation for money grabbing, I reckon he’d sell to anyone if he was offered well over the odds, so I don’t fall for the ’waiting for the right people’ bollocks.

BECAUSE WE ARE NOT FOR SALE!

David O’Keefe, I knew around 20 people who at the time were working for BK and you’re right, no respect given or received.

I find it quite funny and ironic that those giving the ’Kenwright is a liar’ song and dance, then go and post their own lies regarding his position on selling the club.

The position of those who think he is the devil incarnate has now changed from ’he refused to put a value on the club’, to ’he is asking too much, and trying to make a huge profit’. It’s very easy to make these throwaway statements to support a negative viewpoint. And it is much easier to dismiss these points as nonsense, when there is nothing to back it up except ’I reckon’.

To go back to the original post, I find it incredibly contradictory that those who think BK is bad for the club are willing to see us put in the hands of someone without the clubs interests at heart. It's amazing that people point out that Pompey have had new owners as if they are somehow better run than us, even though they now sit at the foot of the table, having sold all their best players. I won't even comment on the comparison to Notts County as it is quite frankly ridiculous.

So Phil Martin, using your logic, you are BK and you haven’t a pot to piss in and have blagged your last loan from your friends and the club are falling behind season by season due to your inability to do the basics. You know the stuff, marketing, merchandising, off field income streams and seek opportunities to make profits.

Then again as "he is one of us" you would take the stance that stagnation and having to sell players just to stand still is ok? Want to buy some magic beans?

Dan, to use your apologist logic, can you prove the club is for sale and not for "investment" and how for how much? Bollocks eh? Try to prove your point as not being a lie.

Sorry, Dan, but you're at it again. How can somebody saying Kenwright refuses to put a value on the club be deemed a lie?

And what's this "the position has changed" garbage? — whose position has changed?

There are many people who want Kenwright out, not all for the same reason. He has fucked up on so many fronts, you can take your pick.

It may suit people like yourself Dick/Alan/Neil to believe there is some sort of body, "The anti-Kenwright Brigade" out there, but there isn't.

People's opinion of Kenwright is very much mirrored by their opinion of his DK project. The anti-DK Evertonians didn't all want it knocked back for the same reason, all sorts of individual groups had all sorts of different reasons and because there was so many reasons and so many groups, the project was deeply unpopular.

Forget this idea of an "anti-Kenwright group" — think individuals, thousands and thousands of them. Contrary to what you believe, very few of us actually hate BK, but many of us want him gone... for so many different reasons.

A bit late in the day I know, but just to pick up on Phil and Gavin’s points / questions to me.

Phil: maybe you’re speaking to different Utd fans to me (very likely considering how many of them you’ll find). The ones I speak to are anything but happy with the Glazer family, and the enormous debt that Utd have been put in as a result of that takeover. They are also very unhappy with the sale of Ronaldo and lack of subsequent investment, and their inability to compete with Real Madrid on the transfer front this summer. Now, granted, some fans will never be happy, but to suggest that Utd is one big happy ship with the Glazers at the helm is nonsense.

Again, with Villa fans, the ones I speak to are not "delighted" as you assert. They are genuinely upset that they are not making fast enough progress under Lerner / O’Neill, and think that City and Spurs have now overtaken them, despite the sizeable investment.

Gavin: I see that you like to use "logic" in your posts quite a lot. So, "logically", tell me where in my post I intimate that I have inside knowledge of what went on at Notts County? All I know is what I read: Notts County fans feel they’ve been badly lied to (having surrendered a supporters trust ownership model to bring in this investment), the promised riches that lured Sol and Sven have failed to materialise, and the club is now up for sale again.

My post was pointing out that a previous poster had ridiculed Kenwright for not having the good sense to sell Everton (or seek investment from) the group behind the eventual takeover of Notts County. If you criticise someone for getting things wrong, you should perhaps also give them credit if they get something right.

"Logically", can you tell me where exactly I say that I am a Kenwright apologist? For the record, I’m not. I’m an Everton fan. I think Kewnwright has been a better owner than Peter Johnson, and that’s about as far as I’ll go. Don’t accuse people of being something they're not, despite what your "logic" may intimate to you.

"Logically", where in my post did I say that the Utd takeoever had been "disastrous", or that City were "disheartened"?

Gavin, with the greatest of respect as a fellow Blue, "logically" pull your head in mate because you’re making an arse of yourself. Is Everton up for sale? Scrape together £100m and go to talk to Elstone and Kenwright, give them the £30m that you assert would represent a fair profit and pledge the other £70m to the club for transfers. Also pledge to bankroll a new stadium and continued transfer activity and see what they say. I’d imagine you’d be the new owner of Everton Football Club in fairly short-ish order. Then we can all "logically" start the "Gavin is a liar" song.

Ahhh...

The old classics pop up... "be careful what you wish for"... "it could be worse therefore don’t advocate change"... and my all time favourite — "Bill has the club's interests at heart"


Sweet..

Michael, How about some sort of new year gesture to the TW family ?
Annually — preferably January 1st — you could ask the congregation to select the cliche they hated most and want banned.

Say the word and I’ll open a book...

"Be careful what you wish for" would be installed as the immediate odds-on favourite.

Alan Kirwin, "You appear to be one of many on ToffeeWeb who despise Kenwright so much that you never stop to consider if it could actually be worse."
-------------------------------------------------

I don't and have NEVER said that I don't like (or like for that matter) Bill Kenwright. If anything, I applaud the guy for trying his best for the club and helping it get rid of Peter Johnson who was more than happy to let us go down the toilet. At least Kenwright has a passion to put things right by being a blue.

My point, which you obviously missed, was aimed at the fact that all these clubs (some much smaller than ours) attract interest almost immediately, yet Everton does not. Why?

I don't think the question states or purports to a fact in anyway as to whether I have an allegiance or hate for the current regime.

One more thing — if you point to my comments about the board in relation to Kirkby as a piece of evidence of me ’despising’ Kenwright, then think again. I only describe the Kirkby debacle as just that... a debacle and a mess that was poorly handled by those in charge. Again, never mentioned whether I hate or love Kenwright.

I wouldn’t worry about Alan’s comments Jamie... He appears to have some kind of cognitive dissonance (that phrase again) regarding Kenwright...

He’ll acknowledge that we have problems — for instance the disaster that was Kirkby — yet has some kind of double bind against laying the blame for these problems where it clearly belongs.

And anybody who does... apparently ’hates kenwright’....

Emotional stuff, eh...

I don’t think anybody should worry about anyone. What is this nonsense? The comments herein are called opinions, no?

I have cited every club mentioned in the article, except one, as being an example of a fuck up. Oh yes, they changed hands, and....fuck up. So what are we actually discussing here? Why are some people so mortally wounded by the phrase "be careful what you wish for"? It has simple connotations, easily explained by the results of change exemplified at other clubs. It’s aimed at people who just spout "Kenwright out" without any thought as to who or what might replace him.

I know facts can be incredibly inconvenient at times. But Ciaran, rather than discuss me (clearly one of your hobbies), why not discuss the article? Now there’s a revelation. There’s a list of clubs cited as evidence of things happening elsewhere (presumably meant to support the argument for change) but not at Goodison.

For the avoidance of doubt, here’s a few facts to finish on. I am not and have never been against a change of ownership from Kenwright. However, I am also smart enough to realise that whilst change can be exciting, it can also bring great risks (just ask fans of Newcastle, Leeds, Portsmouth, Notts County etc etc).

I am not in favour of billionaire owners. I am however in favour of clubs paying their own way. It’s a simple concept. Your income comes from trading as a sporting enterprise and you have access to that money only, or any secured capital investment that may be appropriate for stadium or whatever. If you only get gates of 30,000 compared to 75,000 then clearly there will be potential gaps. Such is life.

I do not believe in owners buying cubs and saddling all the debt on to the fans, that disgusts me. I do not believe in billionaires dropping in and bringing half the Brazilian team to the club either. I am also profoundly in favour of fan ownership or part ownership, as enshrined in Germany.

So, for me, the issue is not necessarily Kenwright. It’s the system. Kenwright has not covered himself in glory. But there are worse around. And if you really are stupid enough to question that suggestion, again, please just take another look at Leeds, Newcastle, West Ham, QPR, Notts County and Portsmouth. The idea that these have all been held up to support the argument for change is beyond bizarre.

That. Ciaran, is called a point. What’s yours?

Emotive word, Hate. I doubt many people actually "Hate" BK. I don’t hate him, but I do believe he is either incompetent or is working to his own agenda.

Either choice dictates that it's not in the best interests of Everton FC that he continue.

It's worth remembering that he has led the board to Kirkby despite the many holes in the concept and bending of regulations by Tesco.

So lets see.. if he didn’t know Tesco was breaking the rules he should have. If he did know then he was complicit in the scam... Is that incompetent or just being a chancer?


Do I "Trust" BK for telling the truth?? Not in a million years. That's the problem, his credibility is shot to hell.

But I still don’t hate him..

Guys please, the mailbag post was asking why Everton never seems to attract attention but teams like Notts County do..? That was the ’point’.

Dont get personal with each other — I don't really care if you like or dislike Kenwright, it's not really that relevant unless you can argue that the reason we are not getting interest is because Kenwright (with evidence, i suppose) is preventing approach.

If we believe that Keith Harris is on the case looking for a buyer, then we can safely assume that Kenwright is all up for selling. End of. That's the evidence on the table and we have nothing but hearsay and rumour to the contrary.

Going back to the original point, with the above in mind, why don't we attract interest, yet other clubs can? My second reply to this states that I wasn’t looking into the success of buyouts either — I was asking why we don't get interest from investors but other clubs clearly do.

David O’Keefe

I think that Jon Woods actually holds the majority of shares at Everton FC.

That would make it his decision as he has more ’votes’ than any other share holder.

So we could get someone worse Alan? Of course we could. We could also get someone better. Just an opinion.

Do I believe that BK will find someone befiting EFC? Based on what?? Pots of money, but not wanting to own the club?

Someone please explain to me quite simply because I have a headach, What is the basis for ANYONE to invest in the club as opposed to buying it? What is their incentive and what is their return based on? What do we have that could interest anyone to "invest" in the club and leave the current status quo in place??

The SALE of the club just means someone buying all the major shareholders shares. If they are not for sale then the only option IS investment. Circular route back to the above comments, Why bother?

I will bang the drum again because, despite my headache, it's important. If BK and the other directors sold the club for a modest but good return on their investment, it would give the club the benefit of capital being available for improvement.

But thats a trade off too far for some I think. It's when the head rules the heart for BK

Jon Vincent Woods - Number of appointments = 50

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22199839/The-Extent-of-Evertons-Debt

That would suggest that Mr Woods pulls the strings...?

"That. Ciaran, is called a point. What’s yours?"
-------------------

My Point? That you’ve got cognitive dissonance regarding Kenwright... anybody has a go at him on here (as the are entirely within their rights to do) and you immediately pop up with your assinine ’KENWRIGHT HATERS’.....

As for your appropriation of the phrase ’be careful what you wish for’...It’s based exclusively on negatives and lacks any balance whatsoever... the positive club acquisitions have been noted above. I don’t feel they need any further discussing.

Oh and I don’t have a hobby related to picking on you... I simply pick on what I think is wrong. As you say - opinions...

Kenwright is hapless and this club could do with a change. Simple as that.

If a new owner turns out to be a twat, then so be it... that possibility however, does not in any way validate the continuance of a poorly performing regime...

Which is the sole basis of your argument.

’Jon Vincent Woods - Number of appointments = 50’
That would suggest that Mr Woods pulls the strings...?
----------------------
Number of appointments is not the number of shares...is is the number of appointments to the board. I think it’s an annual count.

Christine, I don’t follow your point re if Kenwright & co sold out for a modest profit then it would give the club the benefit of available capital. I’m afraid the two are entirely unrelated.

Buying shares has nothing to do with working capital. If someone or something did come in and both buy up all relevant shares AND clear debt AND make some funds available for team building then I don’t think there’d be many if any nay sayers.

But with the exception of Randy Lerner, Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour, all the other examples quoted are usually of the leveraged variety, where the buyer pays more or less sod all themselves and gets the fans to pay for their privilege of buying the club.

The examples of Liverpool and Man Utd are, to me, disgusting. Two hitherto solvent football clubs saddled with enormous debt, funded by the fans, to enable the owners to benefit. That’s a risk and one that could sink a club of lesser resources like Everton.

Oh and can we just clear up something on here. People like Ciaran McGlone operate under the idea that the more you repeat something the more it becomes true. It doesn’t, if it starts out as bollocks it remains bollocks. So please, Ciaran, do point out where I have used the phrase 'Kenwright haters'. And if you can’t, be kind enough to apologise for being a over-sensitive fantasist.

My comments don’t even support Kenwright. The reality is that the exact converse of what Ciaran McGlone says is usually the case. I can take or leave Kenwright, I just look at the bigger picture & can see problems as well as benefits. But some just want him out regardless. It is those over-sensitive little flowers who need to reign in their emotions before exploding on to here in a frenzy of faux indignation.

Hypocrisy AND fantasy is a very unappealing trait. Even in an Evertonian.

Sorry Jamie, but surely when you asked the question "why can't we be sold?" you knew this would turn into a Kenwright thread.

Alan, it's not the phrase that’s irritating, its the amount of times it's actually used on this site, it's virtually guaranteed to pop up shortly after Bill Kenwright’s name is mentioned; besides as has been pointed out, its based solely on the negatives.

Just been reading more about Pete Winkleman; he’s secured that the Heineken Cup later stages will be held at his stadium (provided Northampton saints qualify); he has applied for license to build a casino next to their new stadium, along with host of bars and restaurants; and he expects to get the go-ahead as a possible World Cup venue... all this week!

Take a look at where Winkleman and Kenwright were 10 years ago, the Milton Keynes man may well have committed football's greatest crime, but while Everton suffer through Kenwright's inertia, The Dons are advancing at a staggering rate.

Winkleman isn’t a billionaire and he’s a disageeable little git, but EFC is crying out for somebody with his sort of drive and "can do" attitude.

Alan, SIngle quotes indicate a paraphrase, not a quote...

Don’t be so sensitive...

"People like Ciaran McGlone operate under the idea that the more you repeat something the more it becomes true. It doesn’t, if it starts out as bollocks it remains bollocks."

Indeed... like your favourite phrase... ’be careful what you wish for...’

Oh by the way...does this not qualify as a nod to Kenwright hating?

"You appear to be one of many on ToffeeWeb who despise Kenwright so much that you never stop to consider if it could actually be worse."

Jamie, Kenwright has most shares (8,754 at the last count), follwed by Earl (8,146) then comes Woods (6,623).

Christine: "If BK and the other directors sold the club for a modest but good return on their investment, it would give the club the benefit of capital being available for improvement."

---

Not sure what tou mean by that, Christine. The DIrectors would be selling the shares they have bought, and pocketing the money (or giving it back to Sir Philip Green!).

There is NO capital benefit to the club in that transaction.

Dave, agree with you about Winkelman.

Hated what was done to Wimbledon. A good friend of mine has followed them all the way through, and as AFC Wimbledon and they are nearly back, which is fabulous. MK Dons also returned all the trophies to AFC, which is nice.

But you’re right, Winkelman has had a vision and somehow has delivered upon it, way ahead of what I personally thought was possible. I’ll just say what I’ve sad many times, I am not a Kenwright apologist (another favourite word on here). Everton doesn’t just need empathy and tradition, it needs vision and drive.

I understood Kenwright & the club’s motivation for Kirkby, as distinct from agreeing with it. It just unravelled into nonsense with so many holes. But I was mainly put off in the end by the fact that we were mere passengers and not the driver.

I am aghast that there hasn’t been a knocking together of heads with regards to Merseyside’s situation with stadia, finance etc. It smacks of personality issues as much as logic. LFC are over £300m in debt and proposing to build a stadium that would cost £400m. Really? how? Many kopites suggest they don’t need Everton. Really? What nonsense.

Everton is possibly the ideal co-tenant. We may not have cash in the bank, but we are capable of filling 50,000 or more for games. The revenue stream that Everton could co-generate in a joint stadium would be phenomenal. This is where the vision is lacking in my view. Why stop at the ceiling when you hit the stars?

It is fairly clear that, contrary to the notions of many on TW, nobody has SERIOUSLY come forward with a proposal to take Everton forward. The idea that it’s happened even once and there was no media exposure whatsoever is fatuous. Your mention of Winkelman, Dave, is probably the first time on here (that I’ve seen) where someone has made a comparison worthy of study. He has delivered and done so without fabulous resources. It clearly can be done, but for all sorts of reasons, no doubt some due directly to Kenwright, and Johnson, and Wyness, and even Elstone, we seem to be frozen to the spot.

Elstone, if he had a vision, is afraid to take on Kenwright. Kenwright has no financial room for manouvre whatsoever and I’ve little doubt is feeling increasingly uncomfortable. But he can’t just cut and run, what would be the point? What a pity there isn’t a blue Winkelman somewhere. What a shame Macca can’t be motivated to dip in, buy the club, sort debts out and appoint a Winkelman type to run it.

The reason I’ve been relatively sanguine about Kenwright is because a) it really could be worse, and b) I sense no buzz of excitement anywhere else for Everton. if there was we’d have heard.

Sometimes in life doing nothing, whilst it may seem like dithering, is actually a sensible interim solution.

Ciaran, again, any comments, opinions, points etc on the topic in question? Or are you just a comma chameleon? Just wondering :)

Michael Kenrick,

What does ’number of appointments’ mean then - is that not the share percentage? I have not seen this before, and embarrasingly I am a director of two companies...! :D

Michael, I think I didn’t make myself very clear, must have been the headache...

If a prospective buyer of EFC came along he would have to pay the key shareholding Directors of the club for their shares.

It is the value of those shares that can be the stumbling block for any new buyer. If he (she) had to pay out £200M for those shares AND a further £150M for a new development then the total cost could be significantly off putting and therefore restrictive on possible available capital that the new purchaser would have to inject funds to redevelop the club.

My point was that if the directors took the view that a modest return or even double their investment then it would free up the capital any new buyer would have to make available to invest in development.

So if a new buyer had "ringfenced" (love that word) £200M as the total he or she would invest then all he currently would be doing is buying a problem and leave little if any capital to do what is needed.

Panadol works wonders but not all the time