The Mail Bag

The myth of new stadium = investment

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I've no link at present to back this up but the word around Manchester is that Man City are looking to move to a new stadium. This is because they don't own Eastlands and therefore their stadium does not create revenue for the club. For anyone who knows their geography of Manchester, a site has been found in the Ashton Moss area. I think City's owners are calling Manchester Council's bluff to get them to sell the stadium to the club but either way it's a massive pay out from their owners to acquire the stadium.

It's funny because having read a lot of posts on here and other forums from the pro-Kirkby brigade it seems that having a new stadium guarantees a rich Arab owner yet City's owners are having to fork out for a new stadium. In which case why are we any different from them in terms of investment? Perhaps we just have a stubborn chairman trying to line his own pockets? Someone on here made a good point the other day — our stadium may be old but we're willing to fill it week in week out so what does it matter?

If City do relocate, perhaps Kenwright will propose we move to Eastlands!
Alan Clarke, Manchester     Posted 12/12/2009 at 06:06:40

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Gavin Ramejkis
1   Posted 12/12/2009 at 17:00:47

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Alan, there are a lot of folk posting on these pages:

don’t want an Arab, Asian or American owner

do want an Evertonian owner

doyou know any Evertonians with dead dinosaurs buried in their garden? - if too subtle for some aka humungous oil fields
Stewart Oakes
2   Posted 12/12/2009 at 17:08:21

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The City of Manchester Stadium, also known as COMS or Eastlands, is a stadium in Manchester, England. Originally designed as part of Manchester’s failed bid for the 2000 Summer Olympics, the stadium was built for the 2002 Commonwealth Games at a cost of £110 million. After the Games, it was converted for use as a football ground and became the home of Manchester City F.C., which moved there from Maine Road in 2003 after signing a 250-year lease.

The above is from the stadium site, i would think it would cost a fair bit to get out of that lease.
Gavin Ramejkis
3   Posted 12/12/2009 at 17:19:14

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Stewart, those Arab chaps aren’t short of a few bob and supposition they could probably pay to get out of the lease or worry the council into selling it to them either way they get what they want.
Keith Glazzard
4   Posted 12/12/2009 at 18:42:29

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Well Alan, having lived in Ashton-underLyne and South Manchester I know quite a bit about this local geography.

First thing first. Ashton Moss is in Tameside (it used to be in the County of Lancashire). It isn’t, nor has ever been, in the City of Manchester. How the owners of MCFC could dream of taking the club out of ’The City’ is beyond me.

The IKEA built just down the road has created massive local traffic problems. No planning application can possibly survive.

The tram plan out to Tameside (after people had been rehoused and their dwellings bulldozed) was knocked back. There is talk of five or so years hence.

Who knows how much the MCFC owners will pay for the City of Manchester Stadium. It's still petty cash for them to build a new one.

And they couldn’t give a toss whether its in the City of Manchester or not.
Dennis Stevens
5   Posted 12/12/2009 at 19:52:56

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Yes Alan, It is indeed a myth. Anyway, considering there is much hand-wringing about who could possibly be suitable to supercede Kenwright, I’d much prefer the sort of owner who appreciates what the club is at Goodison Park and wants to redevelop that than one who has no interest in Everton but might have been tempted if we had moved to a new stadium in Kirkby.

I’m hoping the next change in ownership will bring in a person or people who want to build the club up over the longer term, both as regards the team — the stadium. My impression is that the current board consists of individuals who either can’t do this or aren’t interested in the club in the long term.

tony stanley
6   Posted 12/12/2009 at 23:25:53

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I couldn't agree more with Dennis Stevens, instead of the "People's Club" they should paste his comments on the side of the stand.
Dick Fearon
7   Posted 12/12/2009 at 23:41:46

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Give it a rest will ya, at least until you have other than rumours to express your dislike of Blue Bill.
Dennis Stevens
8   Posted 13/12/2009 at 03:37:15

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Nothing to do with Blue Bill, Dick — I don’t dislike him as I don’t know him. He himself admits he doesn’t have the wealth now needed at the head of a Premier League club, so regardless of anything else Kenwright cannot personally take the club forward.

The question is whether the Board as a whole can or will do so, or can we expect some changes to bring in new Board members (new owners?) — otherwise, the club risks stagnating.

Ste Traverse
9   Posted 13/12/2009 at 04:19:24

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Of coarse it's a myth that new stadium equals investment, it's just Kenwright's deluded fans who are seduced by ’tales from the Boys Pen’ that believe that rubbish. We are more attractive at Goodison.
Dick Fearon
10   Posted 13/12/2009 at 05:51:48

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Dennis, The man himself freely admits that he nor his board have sufficient wealth to take the club forward. What I find hard to understand is why he comes under so much criticsm because of it.

I accept your word that you personally do not dislike him and appologise for including you with other posters who make no secret of their dislike of the man. Do you agree with me that in the case of other posters, that dislike does look a bit like personal animosity bordering on hatred.

Ste Traverse
11   Posted 13/12/2009 at 06:41:23

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Dick, the reason Kenwright and his muppets on our board get so much criticism is when you see clubs nowere near our size, history, tradition and support getting takeovers or investment you know something is wrong. For me these beauts were waiting for their golden egg off Kirkby. The selfish lot deserve massive stick.
Dick Fearon
12   Posted 13/12/2009 at 08:36:32

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Ste T, all I ever want is legitimate criticsm of the man. All I ever get is uncorroborated rumour and inuendo.

I put to you the same question I have unsuccesfully put so many times to others. Name one multi millionaire who has made an offer to buy out BK. Take your time, Ste; experience has taught me not to hold my breath waiting for an answer.

Gavin Ramejkis
13   Posted 13/12/2009 at 09:03:36

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Dick, using your own logic can you prove they haven’t withouth a shadow of a doubt and with documented evidence? How about Lerner? Come on Dick, you always decry those who dare have a go at BK but show us your evidence to prove your point. I am still to hear any apologist supply any evidence.
Phil Roberts
14   Posted 13/12/2009 at 09:04:57

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Dick,

A better question is name me one multi millionaire who has offerred money to BK and which making Everton Football Club better and not just making even more money is behind the bid.

BK does need a new PR guy and someone with a staple gun to weld his mouth shut. We all believe that he is not selling because the money HE is going to make is not big enough. I can believe this of the other board members because they are the ones with the money and they want the money.

But no one seems to consider, if you were in Bill’s position, what would matter more to you: enough money to buy an island in the Caribbean and not see Everton every week — or grinning from ear to ear when the new owner supports David Moyes to the extent that a League and Champions League double could get boring at some stage, but 5 has been nice so far.

His main problem is not that he holds on to the club but that he spouts forth such rubbish. If he came out and said the club is only for sale to someone who is going to invest in players, not to any guy with a few hundred million of bank loans, then we would believe him but doing so would also scare 99.999999983% of potential investors away.

Dick Fearon
15   Posted 13/12/2009 at 09:50:10

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Ste, I am still waiting.

Gavin, do not think for one second that a potential genuine investor would keep quiet if he thought Bill was holding out for more money. Or do you think Bill holds an exclusivity clause over such things?

Phil, you come up with a name after all I posed the question. You can all wriggle about as much as you like but I will continue asking that same simple question about naming the investor.

Gerry Dignam
16   Posted 13/12/2009 at 10:00:33

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Please Colin, can you give me some info re Green Lane. Where and when was this mentioned — was it by the club, council or KEIOC? Please do not get our hopes up to be let down. If this is true, around Stoneycroft area would be great for our club, in the middle of our city is where we belong. The Ring Road and motorway is close by — what a lovely dream... if only!
Gavin Ramejkis
17   Posted 13/12/2009 at 13:29:10

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Dick, BK bought the club with £20M he borrowed; since then the club have hocked everything off besides players’ contracts — all on record so even you would find it hard to dispute that. He has owned the club for ten years or so, selling for £30M would give him £1M profit per year which isn’t bad and certainly better than he would have gotten putting his borrowed money into a bank.

If he sold for £40M then he would potentially walk away with £20M clear profit given he hasn’t invested a single penny into the club beyond buying the shares — also hard to dispute as that's also on record and the DK hearings in black and white that NOT ONE major shareholder in Everton FC would be willing to sell or dilute their shares or spend a penny of their own money on the club.

Now, given your clamour for evidence, how does all that stack up so far? How much did recent clubs sell for? Even at £40M, Everton — with their recent footballing exploits of successive fifth placings in the EPL, a reasonable manager who desperately needs to add to his squad and not sell to buy, two Wembley appearances — yet not a single takeover? You honestly believe from your armchair that the clubs which have been bought and sold over within the last four or five years were better prospects than Everton at footballing success and thus image/profile?

Think hard about the lack of use from BK himself of the phrase "Everton is for sale", think of how it has been said by his CEO, yet not by him, then how often you have heard him saying he is looking for investment?

Not sure if you have any comprehension of how anyone with wealth would want to invest their own hard earned with little return such as overall control — it just doesn’t happen. Investment of £20M would buy you what at the club? Ownership — as that is what BK paid for it? Half-ownership — on what terms?

Dick, you actually used the statement that no-one at the club can take it forward, then why not sell? What price for their shares? Surely let them give up this propaganda patronising avalanche of bullshit about loving the club, if they did they would sell for the sake of the club and not themselves, why not say we need to make such and such before we move on — I’d appreciate them actually showing they have a spine in doing so instead of the lies.

Why would a potential buyer bother broadcasting that they made enquiries about buying the club only to be told it isn’t for sale or it is for far greater than they are willing to pay for it? Have you ever gone to buy something then found out it cot too much and told everyone you know? The argument of this telling tales like a chastised brat is a nonsense Dick.

Ste Traverse
18   Posted 13/12/2009 at 15:32:40

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Dick, You ask me to name a multi-millionare who has tried to buy out Kenwright. What I can do is quote Elstone in his kipper interview a few months ago when he admitted there had been a "steady stream" of interest in the club over the last few years, but nothing came of any of them, probably because the club became unavailable when the idiots signed that Joke exclusivity agreement!
Chad Schofield
19   Posted 13/12/2009 at 15:11:01

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Dick, I remember there being mention that Lerner had said he’d attempted to purchase Everton but was rebuffed. That seemed to stem from this article: (http://www.toffeeweb.com/season/08-09/comment/mailbag/mailbagitem.asp?submissionID=9809) which in turn seeems to have come from this (http://www.nsno.co.uk/comment.php?comment.news.3862) pretty lame article. I say pretty lame as it puts words into David Moyes mouth and has no reference (nor could I find any other article quoting Lerner online).

No smoke without fire, well certainly it seemed that he was interested along with the mystery Russian.
http://www.everton.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=25181
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=411178&in_page_id=2

I would say though Dick, that most people with the kind of clout needed don’t tend to run off crying to the press if they don’t get what they want. It would show weakness that they cannot buy whatever they want and probably be seen as a failure in their eyes — which unsurprisingly most people do not revel in.

I’ve seen people argue that prospective buyers would shout from the rooftops, but don’t you think that’s a little like telling tales to the teacher? How would it help them? Would other clubs want to talk to them after they’d done that? Would it encourage the current owner to sell?

Once you’ve got past those, you’ll possibly suggest that Jordon et al have publicists who pass stories or the whereabouts of their A-Z list clients to the press. Football agents too drum up interest in their clients by using the press. So obviously anyone wanting to purchase Everton would apply pressure through the press, right...?

Well, the story would only be worth going to the press with had there been some advance and they were beginning to negotiate — no matter what the story says.

Dennis Stevens
20   Posted 13/12/2009 at 21:24:15

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Quite understandably, many Evertonians are and have been somewhat frustrated by what are deemed to be failures at Board level. As the Chairman, Kenwright is the man who takes the flak, although as he is not in direct control of the majority of the shares he is restricted in what he can do individually — he has to reach a compromise with the rest of the Board in order to get their support.

I’d be surprised if we don’t see some changes at Board level sooner than later but, due to the complexity of the main shareholdings, it may not be the simple case of a straight-forward take-over and a new owner coming in. I wouldn’t even be surprised if some Board members sold up and control of the club moved into the hands of a new Board member, but Kenwright remained on the Board even though no longer Chairman. After all, this is football — anything’s possible !

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