We'll... ignore him is kinda what we did after the derby and another passionate, heartfelt diatribe that was — as people have pointed out previously — basically a rehash of previous invective and rhetoric. He may be reeling from that... or he may have been forced to just accept that we're not very good.

Funny how we a more attacking mindset coincided with holding Chelsea on their turf though... and how, sand the sneaking suspicion that a little bit more attacking determination on the break could've won the game for us...

Ah well... apparently such thoughts are "negative".

Sorry, I’ve never met a ’true blue’ yet who wanted his team to get beat - something Tony has wished for a few times since I’ve been on here... If you don’t believe me - check out some of his copy.

He’s said ’I hope we get beat’ and ’I hope we get knocked out’ more times than I can remember...

Personally, I take the word ’support’ very seriously. Criticism, I can live with; even unjustified criticism; it all leads to debate - but as soon as you say ’I hope we get beat’

Well - you ain’t any kind of supporter I can identify with.

Kevin, I’m sorry but I could see the point Tony was trying to make when he said those things. He was desperate to wake the subservient masses who accepted the mediocrity and piss poor excuses. I know it’s hard for you to understand but that’s how it read to me. Like him or loathe him, agree or disagree, he does have a viewpoint he isn’t scared to share.

I’ve already mentioned this in another post but... remember how everyone had us beating Burnley, Wolves, Fulham, Hull, Stoke, Bolton & Fulham not too mention a draw againts the Gunners. Yeap that’s a grand total of just 2 points from the above. So to be fair to Tony he’s got plenty of back up for his opinions. Yes we have got a little better, but let's just wait until we are actually above Burnley, Blackburn and then go onto the next stage trying to catch Stoke & Birmingham.

Any man who spends his hard earned cash following the club through Europe and so on deserves an opinion in my eyes — and he does.

Kevin Sparke raises an interesting point about the extent to which a fan’s contempt for a particular tactic or personality should erode the normal hope for victory and success. I know that my absolute contempt for Walter Smith brought me to the brink sometimes. I never actually wanted us to lose – ever – but, because I so badly wanted Smith to be sacked, I was just that little bit ambivalent whenever a particular result meant he was going to keep his job for at least another week.

It is cancerous, eating away at your enjoyment. In Smith’s case it was not something I had to deal with very often for obvious reasons. The fact is that either your opinions are justified by results or they aren’t. It’s your opinion you have to let go of if results say you are wrong and not hope for the results to change to justify an opinion you’re holding on to in the face of all the evidence. That’s a mistake fans often make and I’m sometimes as guilty as anyone.

He is currently flat out in the gym getting ready to solve our injury crisis.

’Wake the subservient masses’... ’accept mediocrity’

Firstly Gavin, you’ve been reading too much Das Kapital mate. It sounds like you’re trying to pin some sort of Che Guevara type revolutionary persona on the guy. I’ve been watching Everton for nigh on 45 years and I’ve yet to meet a ’subservient mass’... just a bunch of supporters who fervently want us to win. (Tony excepted, of course 1 he said it... not me.)

Secondly, all this ’accept mediocrity’ bollocks — do you really think there is a single Evertonian who wouldn’t want us to dominate domestic and European football? So, we’re nowhere near that — we might never get there; the regime in charge might never take us there.

As a supporter what can you do? Boo the place down when we get beat? Chant ’Moyes out’ with other like-minded discontents? Write to the Echo; ToffeeWeb; Blue Kipper expressing your discontent?... even stop going to the game and withholding your revenue from the club?

What you never ever do is say ’I hope we get beat’ — to me, that is the most disrespectful thing you can ever do to your fellow blues who are spending their hard earned cash following them hoping they win — unforgivable; totally unforgivable.

Tony made some good points amongst the childish invective; particularly regarding the Kirkby move — but he didn’t half spout some bollocks too. Saying he ’hoped we got beat’ was a low water mark as far as I’m concerned.

I agree that all fans should be able to view their opinions and at times Tony Marsh has valid points but my problem with him is that he never posts anything positive. I cannot ever remember a positive post from Tony Marsh and Everton have had some good times recently.

Finishing 4th, reaching the FA Cup Final. Finishing 5th twice on the trot. Bringing through some of the best young talent in the country. All these have been ignored by Tony Marsh who seems to delight in looking for the downside to everything.

He’s a decent poster but by always being negative, his opinion means nothing. He strikes me as a fan with a chip on his shoulder and I for one don’t miss his presence on this website.

Variety is the spice of life. It's all about opinions and as long as there is a modicum of decency it should be a free for all. There have always been different opinions - Whittle or Husband, Mountfield or Watson, Pearson or MacKenzie. Things would be pretty dull if it was all "Moyes out" or "Moyes is the best thing since sliced bread".

So far as I’m concerned, Tony is a true blue and one of the best contributors to this site. I’ve yet to grasp the benefits of positive thinking, without the basic quality first.

After almost eight years, Moyes's sides still seem to have a great deal of difficulty in passing and finding their own players.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Tony isn't scratching his head in amazement at all the fuss about two lucky draws.

It is very apparent to me that Marshy is a real true blue and a "diamond geezer". IMO he has always had the best interests of the club at heart but does tend to wear his heart on his sleeve.

I agree with many of his viewpoints except the harsh treatment of Hibbert and Osman but nevertheless always understood where he was coming from.

To me he is the sort of man you could go out for a pint with argue all night about the rights and wrongs of EFC and end the night shaking hands and going home feeling the better for it.

Don't let us all talk about you, Tony, get your arse back on here and speak for yourself again...

We all (mostly all) miss you.

When Tony was saying he wanted us to get beat, I think he was trying to, rightly or wrongly, get people to see a bigger picture. I don’t think, as Peter Fearon also touches on, that he really wants us to get beat.

We were playing a game not too long ago and getting beat 2-0 when I said to my pal, assuming its game over, that I hope we get twatted so that people will realise it’s time for Kenwright to go.

We were playing Tottenham. Maybe I was just crying it in.

Oh my god, I’ve seen it all on Toffeeweb now. Marshy hasn’t posted for a while so let’s have a post about him not posting!

Personally I don’t miss him or his posts as they always came down to the same thing, namely, Moyes is a shit manager, Kenwright is a crook and we are a nine-man team as Ossie and Hibbo are shite.

I am with Kevin Sparke on this one. I have never ever hoped "we get beat" and I never ever will either. I don’t support Moyes, I don’t support Kenwright — I support Everton. A lot of the time I hate Everton for what they do to me but other times I love them — Sharpy’s goal at Anfield in 1984 remains one of the best moments of my life. The point is I take the word "support" seriously.

Blind support is no help whatsoever.

Sometimes the emperor has no clothes and it needs to be pointed out.

A true friend is one who’ll tell you the truth regardless, supporting a footy team is a bit the same in my book.

Tony’s a wheel in the diversity cog at this website, and for me he’s the single most entertaining read — every time. Not necessarily the best written or most thought provoking, but exceedingly entertaining. And frankly, and I’ve said it before, that is what makes this particular website so fantastic. The myriad of opinions is simply fantastic.

How drab would it be to read and re-read the same point of view? It’s diversity that’s the spice of life, and Tony does his part quite well in this microcosm. Not even sure if I’ve used that word correctly, but you get the point.

The question to be answered is do you cross a line hoping for defeat as a catalyst for a shake-up? I think not. But the reader seeing such a wish by the writer surely would take into account the emotional aspect and reactionary compass of the writer.

And take that comment with a grain of salt.

Where our club is concerned, I admit to moments of despair that lead me to hammer the old keyboard... but not once in 60 plus years as an Evertonian have I wished us to lose.

It is noticable that Tony’s main support comes from like-minded doom-mongers who use the ins and outs of a cat's arse in their desperate attempt to disparage all things Everton.

If those doom-mongers could find the tiniest morsel of praise for anything blue it would add credence to their position but sadly that seems unlikely.

If, for these people, supporting Everton is one long miserable joyless/hopeless experience, why in hell's name do they bother? More to the point, why do they use TW to further spread their miserable miseries?

Dick

Do you actually get to the match.....ever?

I can’t claim 60 years an Evertonian but the half century is knocking on the door and I’m still attending GP. Not many away days now but I never miss a home game.

Watching Everton over Moyes reign has been tortuous to say the least. As a blue, probably foolishly, I stil believe in Nil Satis etc., the current set up falls far short of that maxim.

From the dross served up by Moyes to the proposed shed in Kirkby it seems we have become small time these days. After almost 50 years, 39 as a season ticket holder, I feel quite entitled to express my dissatisfaction with today’s Everton.

I’m not miserable but the club is in decline and it needs to be said. All the positive thinking in the world ain’t going to change the downward spiral. Even worse, the paucity of style and ambition is not only in the reality but apparently within the psyche of the club’s owners and many of it’s fans too just now.

Nothing personal.
Cheers
Tom

He’s behind you...

Made you look? Probably not... but Tony did/does, no matter whether you agree with him or not - he certainly has a way of causing some interesting debate.

Whilst he’s notorious for his forthright "negative" opinions, the complete binary opposite of Comical Doddy, have both become victims of their own notoriety. Tony Marsh gets bayed at the moment Everton string a couple of results together, Ossie scores a goal or Hibbert does anything even remotely creative. He’s heckled the moment he writes anything that doesn’t shit on everything and everyone and ranted at the moment he returns to form. So he becomes a parody of himself, his "Fagan" role versus Richard Dodd’s pantomime dame.

The rest of us fill in various roles — some on more definitive sides of the fence in some scenes, sometimes with speaking parts and other times just watching from the wings. Lyndon and Michael interject from the box every so often to keep the show moving. Ultimately though we’re all led by a story composed by the promising, yet hard up, young writer D Moyes and the ultimate luvie-darling, Kenwrigtht, directing this performance.

All that said, the "Oh yes it is", "Oh no it’s not" of the TW pages do feel a little less colourful without Tony’s insight — in my opinion.

Tom Collie, sorry mate, but as a younger fan (26), IMO, the club was in decline from about the late 80s onwards. The last 8 years have been the most enjoyable for me as a fan as we have been back at the top at least challenging for honours, and I’ve been able to get abroad to watch the Blues as we have been regulars in Europe recently. Don’t know what planet you’re on, but the last decade has seen steady improvement after 15 years of nothingness (1 FA Cup aside), and I would not class that as decline.

Kevin, not far behind with 40 years and subservient masses read those like Doddy happy to accept the tripe served up by BK, those "mustn't grumble" merchants because plucky Everton have injuries, blah blah blah.

Well, probably like yourself, I froze my arse off when the crowds got down really low in the late 70s / early 80s but the team kept trying... Christ, I enjoyed the 70s more than now as, but for the dark side, we were a bloody good side even then.

Funny how I’ve had my politics second guessed and now my literature consumption; I’ve read lots but across the board not just the blinkered, compartmentalised and labelled tripe.

Out of interest, the subservient point is a particular bugbear of mine, where I have seen far too many cap-doffers accept the shite they are fed as they know their place in my lifetime and I personally strive to enlighten those that will listen and make their own mind up and not be force-fed shite just because those telling them wear a nice suit or carry some poxy title.

Can’t say I miss him. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but when it gets personal and the insults start to come out I think thats crossing the line, and I’m afraid to say I've seen plenty of these from TM.

Also the endless negativity from Tony Marsh is boring.

Stewart I’m not a spaceman, I live in the same world as you. Just that I’m a bit longer in the tooth and I still don’t know it all.

The big difference between you and me is that I’ve seen the Blues when they were really good. Sadly for you younger guys, you’ve not. Fingers crossed for you that you will see a decent Everton set-up one day. Come to think about it, I want to see another good side before I fall off my perch.

Hopefully you will have the pleasure of witnessing a great Everton side. When/if that time comes about for you, you’ll realize just how lacking the current regime is.

Until then I fully understand why you’ll continue to feel that I’m talking out of my arse... snag is, I’m not really. Still if it helps you cope with the Moyes dross, crack on mate.

I’m with Tom Collie, Gavin et al on this.

Most of us have at sometime, ’lost it’ and said things we never in a million years want to come true, from the anatomically implausable, "stick it up your arse" to "eat shit and die" or "I hope you drop dead" etc etc... and Marshy’s "I hope they lose" did not, I feel, mean exactly and literally that — more along the lines of "it would serve them right if the Team / Moyes, keeping on the way they are, lost on Saturday".

There are many of the younger supporters who, having only seen the utter dross that was the 90s, think that a couple of seasons over-acheiving is magic, but only through a lack of anything else to compare it with and a few more mature people who should have a better perspective due to having actually seen a decent team. (I won’t say "should know better"... but if the cap fits!)

Perspective; that's the thing, I have seen many crises — personal, local, national, and international, football, financial or political — and almost all of them have had to go way past where action was required to be taken in order to justify, to either self or the public, just how serious it is or was. The one we are still having the after shocks with now is a case in point; I feel it is the nature of the Human condition to ignore things and hope they go away.

During the dire relegation battles, I myself thought that it wouldn’t be the end of the world if they got relegated (because at least ’they’ would hopefully be shocked into doing something and we will rise again ever stronger) not that I wanted it, but hey if it’s going to happen well let's make the best of it and get some benefit out of it.

Marshy and me and others whom I would never dream to speak for, HAVE seen decent teams... DO know what proper football looks like... and are not of a mind to be told that this ’xxxxx’ and ’n’th position, even due to all the usual reasons, is — not only as good as it gets — but is as good as it is GOING to get.

If this is the top then it stands to reason that the only way is stagnation and or a downwards direction.

As I said before, I don’t speak for anyone else but as a supporter, player and coach (well down the food chain), I can get a lot of satisfaction about the recent results W, L, or D coz of the effort put in and correct attitude displayed.

But as the Gunners find out every now and then, that if the effort etc is not there to add to the joined up football, then it is all for naught.

Turned in to a bit of a rant / ramble but I hope you get the point.

Tony Marsh is alive and well and posting under the name of James Reade!!!!

Hey Gavin,

Didn’t mean to come across as a smart arse re the ’subservient masses’ quip. It Just reminded me of sociology lectures I had in the 1980s. Personally I couldn’t give a toss if your reading materials are Das Kapital or Das Boot... immaterial

But if I want to be optomistic in my support — why the fuck shouldn’t I be?

I’ve read on these pages time and time again that people like me have had the ’wool pulled over our eyes’ are ’Kenwright’s dupes’ are ’killing the club’ etc etc etc

What utter, utter bollocks. I pay my cash to watch the match to see us win and hopefully be entertained and when we’re not doing well the last thing I want to read is some dick telling me it’s my fault for ’accepting mediocrity and he hopes we get knocked out of the cup/europe/league’.

That’s my gripe — be as miserable, depressed, unhappy as you like; it’s your call — pull the team, the manager, the chairman to bits on these pages and others - again your choice.

But don’t ever tell me that it’s all my fault as a supporter for being ’optimistic, glass half-full, deluded, or a dupe’ and you ’hope we get beat’. I’ve lost jobs because of Everton FC and the club means as much to me and people like me as it does to you habitual miserablists... don’t ever forget that.

Amen, Brother Kevin.

Christian, as it has been suggested, Tony Marsh is an anagram of Oh my rants.

My money is on us going on a 10 match unbeaten run, putting us firmly in the top 7.

Getting to at least the semi finals of both the FA and Europa cups and going on to win at least one.

Meaning Moyes brings back the first silverware in 15 years with his shrewd transfer dealings and outstanding tactical brain (especially bringing on Osman in the last few minutes to score the winner in the final), making him a cult hero forever.

This success brings in investment which then takes us forward to compete with Europe's elite once more!!

RIGHT IF TONY IS STILL WITH US, THERE IS NO WAY HE CAN RESIST.

Come on Tony you know you want to....

Is anyone going to write a post titled "Ground control to Richard Dodd"? I miss his posts too.

The thing I admire about both Marsh and Dodd is they’ve always stayed true to their beliefs. Marsh has never wavered in his hatred of Moyes and Dodd has never changed his stance on how much he loves Kenwright. I’m sure the 2 of them are household names now amongst Evertonians.

I’d like to wish them both a Merry Christmas!

Er...Hello!

This is outrageous. Whether he is negative, positive, realistic or unrealistic etc is not an excuse to post a whole thread on this guy (or Richard Dodd either).

He comes on here, in his own time, to air his views about the club he supports. I don't often agree with him but that doesn’t mean that I have some right to ridicule or express my opinion of the guy for being upfront and honest about his views. It's an EVERTON site, about the club only.

This post, albeit that some reponses are positive, is out of order and should not have been allowed really. The site, for me, is ALL about the differing views/opinions of Evertonians (we all get wound up now and then... me more so than others!) so please, keep the personal stuff out — it's not fair.

Jamie,

Relax fella, listen this whole site is based around people expressing their views and others agreeing or not as the case may be.

Tony has enjoyed for a long time stoking up debate and reaction. I think you will find he will be most pleased to have caused such debate based on his many inflammatory posts!

Also I think you will find that on the whole although people love to disagree with the man, most of us actually quite like and enjoy his post.....ummm hang on have I read this somewhere before.

So in summary Tony spent many an hour trying to get people to discuss his views and well here we are...

Jamie.... WTF? You’ve been spending too much time at the Emirates, mate!!

As for Tony, I agree with much of what he says, it’s just the way he says it that I find a bit OTT.

Whilst I agree with him over Kirkby and most off-the-pitch matters, I don’t agree about Moyes or some of our players.

Tom Collie makes a valid point about those of us who watched Title winning teams, went to Rotterdam and Wembley etc, having a wider perspective. Unfortunately, though, in those days money wasn’t everything as proved by Man Utd, who went 25 years from 1968 to 1993 without winning the League despite having more money than everybody else through their massive crowds. They even got relegated in 1974.

So I sort of agree with both Tony and Tom, whilst I find others like Jamie R and Ciaran rather baffling at times, and always find the likes of Jay, Gavin and Chad entertaining.

It’s the diversity that makes these pages interesting.

Tom Collie, I began my Goodison experience (sans my Evertonian dad's shoulders) the year before we were relegated. For the following 25 years, I never missed a home game and went to at least half of each year's away games.

Having kids of my own caused me to focus on what's best for their future. That led to emigration to Australia and here I have been since the 70s.

The tyrrany of distance has not dimmed my love of all things Everton. I could tell some tales about very primitive efforts picking up faint BBC radio signals just in the hope of hearing our name.

To cut it short, Tom, I hope you recognise that I am not some kind of fly-by-night or glory hunter.

Haha...It’s been a while since we’ve had any glory hunters Mr Fearon...

In fact, I suppose I could technically be considered part of the last glory hunting generation...

But I guess my subsequent 25 years of hell .. count as some sort of mitigation..