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Good business
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I was listening to a discussion on 5 Live last night when the subject of Joleon Lescott came up. Some interesting comments were made."City wanted Terry and they got Lescott". "They needed a Ferrari and they bought a Fiesta".
A bit harsh, perhaps, but there is little doubt that his confidence is in bits and playing in the World Cup seems quite unlikely.
Frankly, I feel little sympathy for him. It was great business for Everton marred by the fact that it wasn't done in June. I still feel, however, that after the sale of Jeffers it's the best sale Everton have ever made. I can't think of anything that tops those two deals.
Andy Crooks, Posted 15/12/2009 at 09:53:58
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Andy, you’re referring to the Monday Night Club on 5Live. I tend to catch it most weeks myself. Messrs Motsen, Claridge & other guests are usually worth listening to.
On reflection the Lescott deal was sublime business for Everton. But let;s not forget that the combination of Lescott and Jagielka was almost unassailable for us. It used to be news of we conceded just 1 goal, so regular were our clean sheets (as Claridge pointed out). Now 3 per game has become the norm.
Our issue is Distin. he started well but has regressed to as bad as I thought he was at Pompey & latterly at City. I was very surprised that we had to pay £5m for him at his age,when Spurs were able to pick up Nico Krancjar (an excellent footballer) for less than £2m.
On form I don’t think Distin or Yobo deserve their place in the team. Heitinga and Neill set some sort of marker last week. But I’d like to see Mustafi & Duffy given a run out soon.
Can’t recall who it was that, astutely in my opinion, pointed out that we’ll probably not experiment much if at all with the line up on Thursday, despite it being a dead rubber. Having obviously regained some spunk and belief in the past 2 weeks, on this occasion Moyes can be forgiven for keeping the momentum going. In this vein, I also would not play Cahill. Like others he does not warrant a starting place on form.
And in all honesty, if a club is bonkers enough to offer £20m or more for Jack Rodwell then It would also be good business for EFC. I think we could do much more with £20m than just with young Jack, excellent as he potentially is. That said, I don;t think he’ll go.
Lescott may not fulfill expectations at City. In which case he could return and, as nobody is going to pay anywhere near £24m for him, a fee of perhaps one third of that would do it. Just a minor problem with wages :)
On reflection the Lescott deal was sublime business for Everton. But let;s not forget that the combination of Lescott and Jagielka was almost unassailable for us. It used to be news of we conceded just 1 goal, so regular were our clean sheets (as Claridge pointed out). Now 3 per game has become the norm.
Our issue is Distin. he started well but has regressed to as bad as I thought he was at Pompey & latterly at City. I was very surprised that we had to pay £5m for him at his age,when Spurs were able to pick up Nico Krancjar (an excellent footballer) for less than £2m.
On form I don’t think Distin or Yobo deserve their place in the team. Heitinga and Neill set some sort of marker last week. But I’d like to see Mustafi & Duffy given a run out soon.
Can’t recall who it was that, astutely in my opinion, pointed out that we’ll probably not experiment much if at all with the line up on Thursday, despite it being a dead rubber. Having obviously regained some spunk and belief in the past 2 weeks, on this occasion Moyes can be forgiven for keeping the momentum going. In this vein, I also would not play Cahill. Like others he does not warrant a starting place on form.
And in all honesty, if a club is bonkers enough to offer £20m or more for Jack Rodwell then It would also be good business for EFC. I think we could do much more with £20m than just with young Jack, excellent as he potentially is. That said, I don;t think he’ll go.
Lescott may not fulfill expectations at City. In which case he could return and, as nobody is going to pay anywhere near £24m for him, a fee of perhaps one third of that would do it. Just a minor problem with wages :)
I don’t think Distin has been too bad. Yobo has been the major problem. He is incredibly error prone and gifts the opposition a goal a game. Distin’s problem is he’s not good enough to cover Yobo’s mistakes in the same way Jagielka or Lescott could.
I predicted to a friend who’s a Man City fan Lescott would get found out. He was comfortable at Everton because Moyes plays so defensively and even the attacking players contribute defensively. It makes it tight for the opposition and hard for them to break us down. That meant no one got a run on Lescott and the opposing attackers had always been slowed down before Lescott needed to react. He gets nowhere near that sort of cover at City and is blatantly exposed. Also Lescott used to get goals for us from set pieces, which I’m sure added to his value. He doesn’t seem to be doing that now.
I was disappointed to lose him but looking at it now I’m delighted we got so much for a very average player.
I predicted to a friend who’s a Man City fan Lescott would get found out. He was comfortable at Everton because Moyes plays so defensively and even the attacking players contribute defensively. It makes it tight for the opposition and hard for them to break us down. That meant no one got a run on Lescott and the opposing attackers had always been slowed down before Lescott needed to react. He gets nowhere near that sort of cover at City and is blatantly exposed. Also Lescott used to get goals for us from set pieces, which I’m sure added to his value. He doesn’t seem to be doing that now.
I was disappointed to lose him but looking at it now I’m delighted we got so much for a very average player.
The word at Everton was, that Yobo especially, and Lescott to a lesser extent, were great one-on-one defenders but bad communicators and organisers, ie, they needed a Stubbs or Jags alongside them to make it work. My feeling is Lescott does not have this at City alongside Toure who probably falls into the same description.
City may have been better holding on to Dunne of all people, their defending has been woeful this season and has cost them a lot of points that would put them close or in the top three now. Overall, good business... but we do miss him. When is Jags back?
Mr Kirwan... let me start with this point: "I was very surprised that we had to pay £5m for him at his age, when Spurs were able to pick up Nico Krancjar (an excellent footballer) for less than £2M.".... unless Nico could play center back, he was useless to us. It’s called holding us up because they knew what we needed, and had to have. Krancjar was surplus at Pompey and as they can’t pay anyone’s wages, getting rid of him for £2M was fine.
Rodwell is going to be great... 'going' is the operative word there. He currently isn’t.
Now, about Duffy and Mustafi... what??? Which match do you want them to start? A Prem match? Really?
And Cahill... wasn’t it he who popped up to get the second against Spurs?
Rodwell is going to be great... 'going' is the operative word there. He currently isn’t.
Now, about Duffy and Mustafi... what??? Which match do you want them to start? A Prem match? Really?
And Cahill... wasn’t it he who popped up to get the second against Spurs?
I do not think Krancjar would have been useless to us, seems like a strange comment.
Lescott - good money but not keen on Distin, I think £5million too much and would have had Dunne back any day of the week for same amount who I think is far superior to Distin.
Lescott - good money but not keen on Distin, I think £5million too much and would have had Dunne back any day of the week for same amount who I think is far superior to Distin.
Krancjar..Useless?
Far be it for me to defend Mr Kirwin..But he’s spot on.
Maybe there wouldn’t be so many defensive problems - and defensive injuries for that matter, if we had a midfield that could hold the ball up and take the pressure off the back line - instead of constantly givign the ball away and inviting waves of attacks...And Krancjar certainly would’ve contributed to avoiding that..
Distin is a good player, and so is Yobo....The amount of pressure on them over the last while because of a non-existent midfield is where the problems came from..
Far be it for me to defend Mr Kirwin..But he’s spot on.
Maybe there wouldn’t be so many defensive problems - and defensive injuries for that matter, if we had a midfield that could hold the ball up and take the pressure off the back line - instead of constantly givign the ball away and inviting waves of attacks...And Krancjar certainly would’ve contributed to avoiding that..
Distin is a good player, and so is Yobo....The amount of pressure on them over the last while because of a non-existent midfield is where the problems came from..
I don’t think Lescott will be worrying too much, bigger bank balance and about 10 places better off in the league. May not be going to South Africa but can’t see him being that downbeat when driving around in one of his many supercars.
Tony, If I were Lescott, no amount of flash cars would make up for missing the World Cup. How much money can anyone spend? I didn’t begrudge him his move and as has been said he’s been well and truly shown up, at City and for England.
Andy, I doubt he will shed many tears into his diamond encrusted hanky.
When you need a center back another midfielder IS useless. At the time, we had more midfielders than slots. Thru injury, that has diminished, but I think Nico is a fine player, not a useless player, just useless to us at that point in time.
For all the slagging we gave Pip, he’s the one we really miss in marshalling the forces.
For all the slagging we gave Pip, he’s the one we really miss in marshalling the forces.
Roger, I seriously doubt any of our recent poor results would have been any different with Neville in the team. It’s just too easy to say that they would and many seem to be following this train of thought.
As for Krancjar being useless to us! That is just plain stupid. He is an excellent footballer who for me is not dissimilar to Bily. And let's not forget Bily cost us £7m more. I would take Krancjar everytime for a third of the cost.
Roger Domal - Did you really intend your reply to be so obtuse? Krancjar is an excellent footballer at a good age. Distin is an OK defender in his 30’s.
As for Cahill, one goal (and no disrespect to TC, but a rather fortunate one due to a Baines mishit) does not make up for almost 20 below par games. Are you seriously suggesting that it should? Cahill’s form does not warrant a starting place, even with 1 goal against Spurs.
As for Duffy & Mustafi, did I say Premiership anywhere? We have a dead rubber in the Europa and an FA cup game against Carlisle. Having said that, our defence has been so shaky of late that I don;t see what we’d be missing by giving at least one of these kids a chance.
I’m interested in hearing your arguments against this?
As for Cahill, one goal (and no disrespect to TC, but a rather fortunate one due to a Baines mishit) does not make up for almost 20 below par games. Are you seriously suggesting that it should? Cahill’s form does not warrant a starting place, even with 1 goal against Spurs.
As for Duffy & Mustafi, did I say Premiership anywhere? We have a dead rubber in the Europa and an FA cup game against Carlisle. Having said that, our defence has been so shaky of late that I don;t see what we’d be missing by giving at least one of these kids a chance.
I’m interested in hearing your arguments against this?
As much as getting £24m for Lescott was good business and Distin is an adequate replacement at £5m. The problem at the time was that Moyes knew that Lescotts head had been turned and hadn’t pre-empted the issue by signing a centre-half BEFORE the Arsenal game. If this has happened we could have saved ourselves a fair amount of cash & loss in morale,
But that said, I think Distin is a stop-gap while Duffy & Mustafi develop or we sign a young defender with some potential in much the same way we did with Lescott.
I think Duffy will start alongside Hibbo on thursday as we don’t have any other options as Neil & Heitinga are unavailable. It will give him the opportunity to put himself forward if a CH spot becomes free in the new year when Yobo goes to the African Cup of Nations.
But that said, I think Distin is a stop-gap while Duffy & Mustafi develop or we sign a young defender with some potential in much the same way we did with Lescott.
I think Duffy will start alongside Hibbo on thursday as we don’t have any other options as Neil & Heitinga are unavailable. It will give him the opportunity to put himself forward if a CH spot becomes free in the new year when Yobo goes to the African Cup of Nations.
Alan, I agree Cahill’s form hasn’t been the best this season but its hardly suprising considering he’s played in 4 different positions,and none of them his correct one. Yet he’s just got on with it and not complained.
Are we all forgetting that we were actually a very good team defensively with Jagielka and Yobo at centre back? Lescott actually first impressed, rose to prominence, and was selected by England as a left back due to having been shunted out there by the other two being such a good combination. As mentioned above, Yobo is a very good defender but Jagielka is the important one when it comes to organising. I would suggest that Jagielka and one of Yobo and Distin will be a good partnership, maybe even Heitinga. Neill is also experienced there, although I’m far from convinced about him in that position.
Oh and we would have benfited massively from having Krancjar, we would still benefit massively from having him right now.
Ciaran, are you suggesting that in "our selling is very astute" that you are a Kenwright fan after all?
Be careful, you might actually praise Bill.
Be careful, you might actually praise Bill.
At what price would any of you have Lescott back for?
I can’t believe the amount of praise Yobo is getting. He cost us the derby, the Hull game and wins against Wolves and Stoke. We would be sitting mid-table looking at a European spot had that joker not been playing.
I can’t believe the amount of praise Yobo is getting. He cost us the derby, the Hull game and wins against Wolves and Stoke. We would be sitting mid-table looking at a European spot had that joker not been playing.
Looking further into Nico... I agree with those who say he WOULD have made a difference. However, in researching it a little further, doesn’t it strike some as odd that Pompey refused a bid of £12 million for him (denied by some) and ’Arry, while in charge down there, says he won’t sell him for anything and then he turns around and grabs him for £2.5 million(???) when he leaves for Spurs??? Collusion?
Redknapp is not the most upstanding of managers, and a little bit of a cheater. I’m not sure how he ended up for the cut rate of £2.5M. Anybody?
Anyway, I’m sure Distin was value for £5 million at the time, and there probably wasn’t a lot out there at the time.
Roger, I’m sure he was nearing the end of his contract, and had said he wanted to move on, so Pompey had no choice but to let him go on the cheap. Probably the steal of the season from old 'Arry.
I think it’s time that Rodwell was moved to CD because that’s his best position (so we’re told) in readiness for Jags coming back. If it all works out (and at the moment it’s a big if), that could be the best CB partnership in the Prem.
Andy
Do not stop there as they went for Kaka in January and got Bellamy then went for Eto’o and ended up with Adebayor. All that money and hot air and zero achievement nothing but a joke.
As for Krancjar he is decent, nothing more... he appears to me to go missing when the chips are down. I remember one time we beat Portsmouth 3-0 last game of the season and Arteta and Pienaar ran rings around him. In the recent 2-2 draw he was, save for one or two passes, fairly anonymous.
Do not stop there as they went for Kaka in January and got Bellamy then went for Eto’o and ended up with Adebayor. All that money and hot air and zero achievement nothing but a joke.
As for Krancjar he is decent, nothing more... he appears to me to go missing when the chips are down. I remember one time we beat Portsmouth 3-0 last game of the season and Arteta and Pienaar ran rings around him. In the recent 2-2 draw he was, save for one or two passes, fairly anonymous.
Alan Kirwin,
Do you really have to slate Tim Cahill every time you post. If the team was picked on form then we would field two or three players as most have been below par. As stated above Tim Cahill has been playing all over the place for the team and although he hasn’t been on fire I don’t think his form has been that bad. He certainly does deserve a starting place in the team in my opinion.
Do you really have to slate Tim Cahill every time you post. If the team was picked on form then we would field two or three players as most have been below par. As stated above Tim Cahill has been playing all over the place for the team and although he hasn’t been on fire I don’t think his form has been that bad. He certainly does deserve a starting place in the team in my opinion.
How can you say his goal against sSpurs was lucky?? The ball came at him at great speed and the skill required to guide it past the keeper into the net is something that grandstand critics like you could only ever dream of.
Matthew, since when was Kenwright responsible for negoiating the price when we flog players? Isn’t a certain Mr Moyes paid to make those decisions?? And as for Alan Kirwin, the fact he sticks up for Kenwright yet slaughters Tim Cahill at every opportunity tells you everything you need to know.
The sale of Lescott certainly was good business... for BK and the board who didn’t have to spend a penny of their own money on buying new players.
In fairness in August we needed a centre half more than anything else.
However the point shouldn’t be missed that Krancjar was probably on a huge wage at Pompey that Spurs would either match or increase.
Everton wouldn’t.
However the point shouldn’t be missed that Krancjar was probably on a huge wage at Pompey that Spurs would either match or increase.
Everton wouldn’t.
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1 Posted 15/12/2009 at 14:32:28
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Other than Rooney I can’t think of anyone who has been let go for less than their value... and a large proportion of those have been sold at values that appeared to be far more than their worth...