It already is a miserable season and we're half-way through. Had to laugh when someone said on an earlier thread, Moyes has had a bad start... a BAD START! The season is half over and we are barely on track for 40 points if we maintain our form, FFS! Wake up indeed!

But a lot of people don't take kindly to those sadly all too valid comparisons with the dead dog days of Water Smith.

At last, some 10 weeks late, people apart from T Marsh and Myself realise Everton are shite! The shite runs through the whole club, even the kids against Bate looked sluggish and clueless.

I posted an article after the Hull result and was told by 90% of the people on ToffeeWeb I was over-reacting! Wake up and smell the coffee, it's Moyes's team and Moyes's fault, poor old fucking Hughes had 18 months... Moyes has had nearly 8 fucking years!

So much for a happy Christmas after that shite today. And still people support Moyes and will make up any excuse to defend him 1 I listened to him on Radio Merseyside after the game and he said we played well today. Well that's exactly what Smith used to say after a crap defeat.

The best Christmas present for me would be for Moyes to leave. I know we won't be so lucky but half way through the season and 2 points above the drop is just not good enough.

Looks like it could be another record year of the shite type for Everton... do you realise we have kept a staggering two clean sheets so far this season, and those against the mighty Blackburn at home way back in September and the other away to Portsmouth in the same month. Every week, it's the same old story in defence, utter childish errors gifting the opposition a goal or more. Three points per game mean safety and one at a time means fuck all but trouble.

Well I thought we played pretty well today and looked a lot more like a top 6 side than Birmingham! The way they played was painful to watch & actually reminded me of many an occasion watching Everton. Negative unimaginative boring tactics. I don’t think you can say we did any of that today though.

The last few performances have been encouraging & for people to be talking about relegation is slightly over the top. We dominated a team way above (albeit in another false position) us. We do lack quality in the final third and that definitely needs addressing but c’mon, we played well today.

There were many positives today, but the bottom line remains 18 points from 17 games. The two points dropped today (despite scoring two goals) cancel out the two earned against Spurs and Chelsea.

There’s a new world out there. Man Utd, Chelsea and the RS can’t guarantee results. Man City spend untold millions and get draw after draw. (Then win and give the manager his cards.)

By far the most important thing for us is to adapt and succeed in this world for the next 21 games. Yes, it's survival and anything else — Europa and FA Cup is a luxury. And the PL players should be protected for their main job.

But there is no comparison between David Moyes bringing in Landon Donovan — captain and leading goalscorer of a current highly rated international team — and Walter Smith pinning his hopes on David Ginola and Gazza, purveyors of shampoo and meat pies.

Let's look on the bright side, come end of the season we won’t be bitching about Moyes, it’ll be some other second rate manager.

Moyes won’t be around for next season, his look of a dead dog in his interviews gives it away. He’s not sticking around beyond this season. He’s not gonna hang around to search for crap loan signings and Bosmans and have star players sold to raise funds to buy medicore players.

Two jobs up for grabs on Merseyside come May... who woulda thought that!

Sorry boys, this season there’s only Hull worse than us, the inevitable is here... the bell is tolling, it has been for years.

How many years would that be Charles?

There are a lot worst teams than us! Birmingham for one!
They played absolute garbage.

How are Birmingham worse than us James? Last time I looked they were 10pts above us in 7th place.

It’s funny that all these teams that are supposed to be worse than us, have either beaten us or got a draw.

Why didn’t we win today? Not because of Moyes’s tactics, the referee or bad luck. We lost because Fellaini, the boy who can do no wrong for some people, couldn’t be bothered to do his job and track back with Larsson when he score. Fellaini is slovenly and indisciplined. He lost us that game today.

Some of the negativity is unbelievable. This is nothing like the last dead dog days of Walter Smith. We’re a good side feeling the effects of being decimated by injuries and low on confidence. Some of the comments are ridculous. Only Hull are worse than us? We need a miracle to survive? To say we lost the game because of Fellaini is wrong on so many levels it’s not true.

Spot on Geoff, to all the posters saying that the injury situation is no excuse, have a look at Man U, they’ve been playing shite and got thrashed by Fulham... SAF’s excuse? Injuries.

To say that injuries to key players don’t effect a team’s performance is ludicrous, not only do you miss the quality but also the cohesion of a settled team.

And as for being the second worse side! Blackburn, Burnley, Bolton & Wolves, Stoke are ahead of us. Not convinced? Well would you actually like to watch them week-in, week-out? (Admittedly it’s been painful watching us.)

And as for Charles King’s comment that we’ve been shite for years, I thought we’ve been best of the rest for the last 4 seasons, the rest of the country and all the statistics are also of the same misguided view.

There are numerous reasons why we didnt win today. I’d like to respond to James Stewart first: James, we played some really good football right up to Birmingham getting the equaliser, passing and moving and creating space all along the floor. Brum got the equaliser and we reverted to hoofing the ball long again. Cahill was a passenger again, Bily after he scored didn’t do much better, Osman kept getting bowled off the ball again and we invited them on and started defending deep.

Now all of these should be addressed by the man in charge of the squad and how they play, he didn’t do much of that, his substitutions reverted back to type; too little, wrong players replaced and too late. Cahill was having a mare yet stayed on, he should have gone first, Osman shortly afterwards, and Bily’s disappearing act should have given Moyes pause for thought in having had Coleman on the bench to at least have a go as outside right, Christ he came on with about 13 mins to go against Spurs and changed the bloody game, yet here I am and many more similarly moaning on the web about an obviously repeated bloody flaw.

The table doesn’t lie, we’ve used that very same line when we were grinding out anti-football results to claim fourth place. The trouble this season is we have only had two clean sheets in the league and they were back in September, if we can’t get 3 points per game at home we truly are deep in the shit and starting to rely on other results and teams being even more shite than we are right now. Will it come down to the team with the relegation fight in them?

Gavin, I agree with you totally. I have seen some encouraging signs in the last 3 matches though that weren’t there before. But we did revert to type you are correct.

I too was screaming for Coleman to come on. In fact, I would have started him. If players are picked on form and merit he deserves it surely!

Substitutions were very poor from Moyes today and throwing Vaughan on with 2 mins to go was a joke. Tactically, Moyes really does appear to be lacking in these cases.

The table doesn’t lie, you are right. On the flip side, though ,I can’t imagine anyone would swap any of our players for Birmingham’s. It is a false position. I don’t believe we will be anywhere near going down. I do believe Moyes has been one of the main problems though.

I have no time for those "supporters" who think we are shit and today was just more of the same. No time for those folks who are forlornly stuck supporting a crap team, etc... and are aching to support the beautiful game exemplified by Arsenal.

We played beautifully for most of the first half. We have a team that can be great: the problem is not with players being donkeys. We played a lot of inspiring play along the ground. The problem is not with our manager: Moyes has assembled a team that is capable of greatness.

I think the problem is with timing and confidence: we are coming good late and with low confidence. Today looked like a great team grinded into a draw with a shit opposition. How many times have you seen Chelsea run out of ideas against crap? Today that was us.

After that high-falutin’ stuff, I have one imperative: going forward, we need to stop conceding or we are screwed.

I knew it would be 1-1, it always is against the Brum.

First half our passing was crisp and Ossie even looked good in his preferred position of centre-mid. I was praising Birmingham to my mates as to how well they were closing us down. They are playing like we did 4/5 years ago. One shot on goal but put it away.

No doubt people will have to find faults in players, the usual suspects will be trawled out, Hibbert, Ossie, Cahill and Fellaini, and be blamed even though their goalscoring attack came down our left.

Birmingham are a decent side on a good run so full of confidence; we haven’t won at hom in months and but for a dodgy decision should have been 2-0 and cruising.

I am pissed off with a point but the football is getting better and I no longer dread going the game, the winning attitude is slowly returning to the players and hopefully should click into place soon. Fingers and toes crossed...

Let's face facts, lads, the writing went on the wall the moment the moaning KEIOC started their trumped-up effort to stop us getting a new stadium. It was said at the time that we needed to take this opportunity in order to bring in investment so we could move forward.

No multi-millionaire is going to buy a football club and then have to spend possibly £250 million on a new stadium. You were told by the chairman and manager that if it didn't happen we would slide down the leagues into oblivion, well that's what's happening!

We have no money for players, if we had the new ground we would have had it and more, so I hope all the Warren Bradleys of this world are happy to destroy Everton FC.

And no, we cannot rebuild Woodison, we can't afford to, so the bed's been made now, stop moaning, you had your chance now we must all lie in it, bring on the Championship cos we are on our way.

So, Anthony, we are going to be relegated because of KEIOC. Nothing to do with the tactical ineptitude of our coach or the dreadful mis-management of last summer? Interesting theory.

Andy, the simple fact is that, when we lost the investment the managers head's gone down — he dosent seem as interested anymore.

As for summer mis-management, we had no money for players and Moyes held out for all he could for Lescott, the same will happen this summer when we will have to sell possibly Pienaar etc because we cannot deal in good transfers anymore. I will give it to you regarding Moyes's transfers, he does dither quite a lot, but we are scraping the barrel... we are even borrowing an America with no Premier League experience to save us, that must be bad.

But, eh, it's no use moaning about what could have been etc , now we must get behind the mighty blue boys and hope Dithering Dave decides to play with two strikers... if he does, we might even score more goals.

We can't rely on Arteta and Jags cos they will have no effect after being out too long, so Moyes needs to be bolder especially at home, we can beat Sunderland and Burnley cos if we don't then its curtains.

Anthony, who didn't buy pay for new players during the close season last year? Who didn't buy new players during this close season? Are you really that gullible to believe KEOIC are directly responsible for the lack of income streams at Everton Football Club? How many years has BK been supposedly "looking 24/7" or is that KEIOC’s fault too?

Take a trip to Liverpool City Council’s planning department and ask, as it’s information in the public domain, to see Everton’s planning application for Stanley Park, whilst you are there ask for a box of sparks for your grinder, a tin of tartan paint and the long wait because that’s all you’ll get waiting to see it.

The club have fucked up with a ridiculous doomed plan which was on behalf of a supermarket and not the other way around. Read if you would the documents from the DK hearing, again all in the public domain of the "deal of the century" and "economic miracle" attached to it’s funding enablement from Tesco.

If DM’s head has gone down, it has been from the bullshit he was fed last season by Billy Liar and again this season, remember the "we will get players in early" bullshit from Elstone? If that wasn’t from BK himself then why didn’t BK sack him for such a blatant PR fuck-up?

Earning £67,500 / week means that the Manager’s head does not go down. It stays up .... if only to read his banmk statement.

As mentioned before, one dodgy decision it would have been 2-0 and we would have gone on to score more. Since the 2nd half against Hull, subsequent performances look like we have enough to get out of the current position. There are worse sides than us aruond (these are obvious to everyone without naming them all), which is why we won’t go down.

Far too negative lads. As stated already we played like a top side early in the game and, had it not been for a woeful decision by the lino, we would have been 2-0 and coasting. Interesting how those stating that relegation is coming also ignore a perfectly good goal disallowed.

Players are slowly coming back now and we are beginning to look like the side we are capable of being again. Moyes will have them firing in the New Year and I truly believe we will go on an unbeaten run and propel ourselves back to the 6th/7th places. Look at Spurs' situation from last season, are they really that much better than us?

As for the injury situation, you only have to look at Utd to see how much it affects even the best sides. I am not a Moyes apologist and some of his decisions baffle and infuriate me, but neither am I defeatist / pessimist.

This situation will turn itself around and I feel that we will end the season a lot happier than our dear neighbours across the park.

Happy Christmas you lot.

Gavin, some very good comments, and an overall decent summary of why we didn’t win the game. However, you missed the incorrectly ruled out goal, the dismal shots on goal in the second half from Pienaar (2), Osman, Baines and Saha and the referee missing a blatant handball late in the 2nd half.

As for us reverting to hoofball, I’m not gonna say we didn’t play any long balls forward, but we still played along the ground in the main and even if you think we invited them on after their goal, it didn’t make much difference as they had just one more effort (off target) in the remainder of the game.

As for players, again, I mainly agree with you — Cahill was very poor, Bily not much better (his very well taken goal aside), but I must have missed all the occasions where Osman got bowled off the ball, as I thought he had a decent game considering he’s been out for over 2 months. That said, it was him (and not Fellaini) who should have picked up Larsson — instead, he ran with the attacker (Benitez I think) instead of leaving him to the defenders. I thought Saha was below the standards he has set this year whilst Baines had his best game of the season IMO.

And can we stop all this with Coleman? Almost every week, I see a comment on TW about ’square pegs in round holes’ and then people are advocating him playing in midfield (he is a defender). He had a very good game against Spurs (where he came on after about 13 mins Gavin, not with 13 to go) and seems to have a lot of potential, but that doesn’t make him the answer to all of our problems.

Finally, as for the table not lying, I agree. Does this not then mean that there are currently 5 teams worse than us, and not the one that people keep claiming?

I do believe that Moyes has finally got his head out of his arse and it doesnt matter Too much who is playing as the spirit is back in the last 4 or 5 games.

My only concern is that we cant keep a clean sheet but look at the so called sky 4.

They’re not having a good time of it either.

We just need a lucky win against Sunderland to take some of the pressure off and then watch the return to form.

I certainly believe we are a top half team even with our current injury crisis.

Many people here write as though they are rich Arab owners of the club.

Never mind that our 3 first choice centre-backs are out (Man U lost 0-3 without theirs), our decimated midfield is only coming together (Pienaar, Osman & Bily (suspension), Neville, Rodwell, Arteta still out), and first choice strikers struggling to regain full fitness (Saha, Yakubu, Vaughan).

5th placings in 2 seasons, 1 League Cup semi-final, 1 FA Cup final, European football in 3 straight seasons don’t make up for no trophies.

Draws against 3rd and 1st placed teams, totally outplaying a team on a 5-game winning streak are shite performances.

Oh! and no Arab owners too.

A business decision must be made. MOYES OUT.

Stewart, disallowed goal and bad decisions aside as all they are is today’s chip papers, the FA will never go back on what's been. Osman when he went out to the right instead of the middle of the park disappeared and just got the ball taken off him schoolboy style.