ToffeeWeb - Season 2009-10

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Council Talks

Apparently Everton are to sit down with Liverpool City Council next week to start discussions on a new ground. Let's hope Warren Bradley has some real solutions. I'm not sure what this will be but here's hoping for a solution everyone can get behind.
Chris Williams, Chester Posted 30/12/2009 at 10:27:46

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James I'Anson
1 Posted 30/12/2009 at 20:27:34

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Everyone will get behind it apart from Bill. He’ll expect everyone to bend over backwards for Everton because HE’S got no money. Then he’ll announce that the £78M we had for Kirby didn’t exist. It was just a means to an end. Anyway, what’s it got to do with him, he’s just the chairman

Maybe his pal Phil will see this new stadium as a new opportunity, where Bill can remain as his puppet for a while.

Nigel McKergan
2 Posted 30/12/2009 at 17:43:53

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On the stadium, I know we have spent a lot of money on plans etc to move to Kirkby but has anyone seen any feasibility studies carried out in trying to improve Goodison Park? You would have thought this would have run concurrently with any proposed move as a back up?

Surely the Bullens Road stand could be modernised, along with the others and add another tier to the Park end. Maybe this has all been thought through I just haven't seen it.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
3 Posted 30/12/2009 at 20:45:16

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Interesting that the studies done by ~~Terry~~ Trevor Skempton and Tom Hughes on redevelopment of Goodison Park (do a search on ToffeeWeb) have been largely ignored by the Club. I suppose in order to maintain ’face’, they will continue with the story that redevelopment of Goodison Park is too expensive... and Neil Pearse will tell us we haven’t got the money. Which is what this is really all about, Nigel.

James I'Anson
4 Posted 30/12/2009 at 20:57:42

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The consultants employed by Everton to tell us Kirby was great are also the same consultants that tell us it would cost more to buid a new Bullens Road than it would cost us to build the cow shed. I feel they had more to gain at Kirby.

As Colin Fitzpatrick suggested in an interview, maybe the best thing Everton can do right now regarding new stadiums is to hire a new consultant. I concur.

Dan Brierley
5 Posted 30/12/2009 at 21:02:47

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Michael, is it really to save face? If it was possible, why would the board not do it?

James I'Anson
6 Posted 30/12/2009 at 21:10:21

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Dan,
Maybe it’s not as lucrative.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
7 Posted 30/12/2009 at 21:11:11

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I think they painted themselves into a corner on this... if you recall, they even claimed at one point (I think it was pre-DK) that there had been a feasibility study and that it had concluded redevelopment was too expensive; however, those in he know asserted that no such document existed at the time, and if it ever did, it was put together hastily by some paid lackey to toe the party line.

I can well believe that more external money would be available for a new build, rather than for redevelopment — may be substantially more — and I feel that is the reason for their persistent reluctance to consider redevelopment. But, as others have pointed out, our peers in the league have down it... although now Spurs are bucking that trend. And those studies show it can be done for a reasonable price.

Quite simply, the will is not there, and the easiest line to stick with is "redevelopment is too expensive". After all the lies about DK, do you really expect the club to be believed on this point?

Richard Dodd
8 Posted 30/12/2009 at 21:54:03

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Good to see that the Club came good with it’s undertaking to make ’an important announcement’ on this issue even if it did take at least five phone calls from me to get them to go public on the matter. I do so hope they will include the people from KEIOC in the discussions.

Stephen Kenny
9 Posted 30/12/2009 at 22:14:09

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It’s not Warren Bradley’s responsibility to find real solutions' it’s Bill Kenwright's. Something he has failed to do over and over again. I believe he owns the club about as much as I believe the club issued a statement on the matter at Richard’s say so.

Gavin Ramejkis
10 Posted 30/12/2009 at 22:26:33

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The easiest way to get a true costed feasibility study on redevelopment of Goodison Park would be to put the task out to tender, thus giving more than the one sided quote provided by Tesco’s puppet. Trevor Skempton should not be ignored on this subject with his previous experience at St James’ Park, equally other contributers such as Tom Hughes and Colin Fitzpatrick will concur there is mileage in looking at GP beyond the earlier dismissal by the club. Enabling could be there if the Park End was reworked to include something like a hotel/leisure complex that could also be used by visitors to the stadium in Stanley Park.

Frank McGregor
11 Posted 31/12/2009 at 01:02:14

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Sorry to hear the so-called Evertonian Warren Bradley is going to now sit down with the Everton Board to lay his cards on the table, what a joke. All you are going to get out of this performance is a shared New Stadium with Liverpool and hopefully in the distant future they will agree to let us play there.

Forget about the "pie in the sky" idea of re-building Goodison. We are now witnessing the end of Everton as a totally independent football club thanks to the likes of the parasite Warren Bradley and council. We will still be in the City but only as a memory. I can see it now... we will be playing in Red and Blue stripped shirts and the supporters wearing red and blue scarves.

Matt Traynor
12 Posted 31/12/2009 at 01:39:25

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From tomorrow, it’ll be the same shit, different year.

Happy New Year to Toffees everywhere.

Brendan O'Doherty
13 Posted 31/12/2009 at 03:38:03

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Very strange this announcement was made on the same day as LCC stated that they expected the new LFC stadium to go ahead this April... odd, or deliberate?

David Johnson
14 Posted 31/12/2009 at 06:18:48

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Bill prefares pipe-dreams. They cost fuck all and you can heap the blame on the council when they bite the dust AGAIN. He gets to stay in power and has the perfect excuse for doing absolutely fuck all to maintain Goodison. Fucking clever innit.

Eric Myles
15 Posted 31/12/2009 at 08:59:07

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Frank, as Stephen Kenny has pointed out, it’s up to Bill Kenwright to find us a new/redeveloped stadium and the funding for it, not Bradley, and he has failed so far 3 times now.

Should your ’predictions’ be realised it will be Kenwright’s doing and nobody elses.

Charlie Percival
16 Posted 31/12/2009 at 09:18:46

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I'm happy if Bill says, "Right this is our situation: we need £20 million (on top of what we have to redevelop Goodison)".

I'm sure most fans would be willing to put in like a tenner/fiver/quid each to stay at Goodison.

I know it sounds stupid cos we don't actually personally get an investment but we will have pride and keep Everton where it belongs.

Am I stupid or would anyone else do this too?

I hope if this happened, Bill wouldn't buy Robbie Savage with it!

Have a good new year Blues.

Charlie Percival
17 Posted 31/12/2009 at 09:26:47

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Sorry, Can I add that I know the cost of the game is immense enough these days but this would be a seperate issue, ie, our Heritage.

I'd even go as far to say, raise the prices of tickets by a couple of quid and season tickets by £20-30 as I'm sure if fans knew the reason for the (one season) price rise, they would get behind it at all costs (no pun intended).

Brian Waring
18 Posted 31/12/2009 at 09:22:37

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Frank, Warren Bradley had offered to sit down with the club numerous times while the Kirkby debacle was going on, but because of the agreement in place with Tesco, they wouldn’t.

Tony Williams
19 Posted 31/12/2009 at 09:58:54

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Is this the same Warren Bradley that almost cancelled the Beatles Festival last year due to incompetence... allegedly. What a shining light he has been for the last few years...

Matt Traynor
20 Posted 31/12/2009 at 09:59:00

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Frank, these things never work out. It’s like polls: "would you be prepared to pay X if it meant we’d save (insert good cause here)".

People will say yes for the feelgood factor, but do sweet FA about it. And to be honest, I think asking fans to stump up more cash towards redeveloping Goodison is a loser straight away. Remember the "debates" about the last stadium proposal? People deriding Goodison / Walton as a shithole? Will they agree to pay extra to stay there?

We’ve just got rid of one can of worms. FFS let’s not open another!

Whatever happened to the Peel rumour from way back? Oh that’s right — they’re still pissed at our Chairman over the Kings’ Waterfront debacle so won’t deal unless he goes. That’s that one struck then.

Incidentally, years back, I used to play football in London with, amongst others, a couple of Sunderland fans. When their new stadium was being built, Sunderland offered fans (from anywhere in the world) the chance to have your name engraved in one of the bricks for 25 quid (I think it was). Would be interesting to find out how much that raised. I remember these two soft lads bought one each, and one for their wives / kids etc.

Matt Traynor
21 Posted 31/12/2009 at 10:04:41

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PS Previous post was supposed to refer to Charlie Percival’s point, not Frank’s!

Not even started on the ale yet!

Gavin Ramejkis
22 Posted 31/12/2009 at 10:44:16

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Matt, they have named bricks at Ibrox too as my mate got one as an Xmas present years ago from his Mrs. They aren’t real bricks either, just a fake front placed over the existing brickwork. Strangley, that too is a Archie Leach stadium which has retained it’s classic bits, criss cross stands etc.

Frank, nowhere in this country should it be correct for a public body to fund a private company’s project(s) with taxpayers' money. The council are there to act as intermediary between themselves over council owned land and third parties who may be able to offer regeneration funding as a component and to deal with enabling companies as they can offer incentives for new businesses coming into the area or creating new jobs.

The buck with Everton stops firmly in the lap of BK; the council will be very weary of dealing with him with his past performance on the KD project but they have still offered.

Robert Daniels
23 Posted 31/12/2009 at 12:05:15

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I don't understand why people are having a go at Bradley, his hands have been tied due to Kenwright's deal with Tesco.The council gave us the Kings Dock project and our beloved chairman fucked it up, so the buck stops with him.

As for redeveloping GP, why are they so insistent that it cannot be done? We are now back to Kenwrightland now — you know, he's behind you, Fortress Sports Fund... in truth,, more bullshit.

I just hope that the minutes of the meeting with the council will be made public so we can get near the truth of what is being proposed and get away from this party line shit that the club keep giving us.

Hopefully someone with a bit of impartiality could be there so we could actualy believe what the club says, as I believe most people take any soundbites from the board with an extreemly large dose of salt. After all the lies we deserve the truth at last.Dont hold your breath.

Norman Merrill
24 Posted 31/12/2009 at 13:08:30

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I suppose with all the cold weather of late, we should appreciate the chance of some Hot Air directed to the Blue faithful.

Ste Traverse
25 Posted 31/12/2009 at 18:40:12

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Robert, the reason calamity Kenwright wants a new stadium rather than re-developing Goodison is because he knows when he sells he’d get more money for the club with a new stadium rather than a re-developed Goodison.

With a bit of vision, of course GP can be done.

posted for <'i>Rupert Sullivan by the<'i>
Editorial Team
26 Posted 31/12/2009 at 20:12:22
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Having just read the article on the Official Everton Website, I am disgusted to read the comments of the EFC PR machine — yet again, that bunch of witless wonders choose to spurn an opportunity and foul their own bleedin’ nest! The comments from Ian Ross beggar belief, in the paragraph below he holds his hand out for help from the council whilst at the same time intimating that they [the council] are going to be about as helpful as a chocolate teapot:
“Of course, it does remain to be seen if the City Council can provide us with the level of help and assistance which we will require if we are to locate to any new stadium within the Liverpool boundaries but we will enter these preliminary talks with a measure of optimism."
All I can say is that, if this is EFC’s idea of going in to talks with the council which they hope will be constructive, then they are well wide of the mark — and if they do not think the talks will be constructive then what the fuck are they playing at??!!
I can only imagine that they are SO bitter that they cannot see beyond their own arseholes — the petty minded little incompetent idiots.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
27 Posted 31/12/2009 at 20:16:16
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I too have been dubious of their pretentions but I do think you are over-reading this and over-reacting somewhat. Ross’s comments are reasonable and could represent a reasonable attempt not to "big up" the opportunity beyond what it currently represents, which is an exploratory meeting where both parties "lay their cards on the table".

Remember, there is plenty of ’previous’, with both sides no doubt holding grievances, so I think we have to acknowledge that not only is what Ross says both reasonable and accurate in the circumstances, but that the Club PR machine is being sensible this time by not ’bigging this up’ as the imminent Deal of the Century or whatever.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Robert Daniels
28 Posted 31/12/2009 at 23:36:06
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Ste Traverse... Yes mate, you're probably right, and I love the calamity Kenwright comment, that sums him up perfectly.
Anyway, I would just like to say Happy New Year fellow Blues and at least the death knell that was Kirkby has gone forever. Thanks for all the people at ToffeeWeb for airing everyone's views even when we sometimes don't all agree... sorry, I mean most of the time.
We are Everton — fourth most successfull club in England, the People's Club and this is our voice, and together we can speak as one.
FUCK THE RED SHITE. See you in 2010.

Gavin Ramejkis
29 Posted 01/01/2010 at 10:15:43
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Michael, the trouble with the "previous" you mention is that I personally can find little wrong from the LCC side. Everton have never applied for planning permission on Stanley Park; three stays of execution over KD to make payment failed; and no interest before to sit down and discuss opportunities.
I’ve read some howlers on this website as to how LCC have failed Everton but have yet to see any proof of them definitively failing Everton. I’m not saying LCC or any politician for that matter is perfect as they have their own agenda, which is to remain in the role they have been voted into.
What has something like the Beatles Festival got to do with negotiations with Everton? Any council and especially one for a city has so much in-house fighting going on that there is on most councils, this scale they become more magnified. Do you think the councils in London are all sweetness and light over the Olympics work?

Dave Roberts
30 Posted 01/01/2010 at 12:03:06
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Quite frankly I don’t see anything coming out of these talks except for another push at a shared stadium which LFC will not be happy to pursue as they now appear to have got the funding for the Stanley Park development of the New Anfield. They do not need or want Everton involved (and probably never did).

Bradley has already stated there will be no gifts of land or financial assistance of any other kind from the Council-tax payers of Liverpool and, without enabling development (a la Tesco or another) there is not a snowdrop’s chance in hell of a new stadium being built.

These talks will go nowhere. Bradley has offered them because he said he would as part of the LCC propaganda against DK and, as a politician dealing with a touchy subject, he cannot renege. Everton are attending to see what he has to say. In the end, nothing worthwhile will be said except a reaffirmation that there are sites available in Liverpool (which we know already) but the Club cannot afford them nor afford to build a stadium on one of them.

It will be as simple and as disappointing as that. You read it here.

Neil Pearse
31 Posted 01/01/2010 at 15:59:47
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Dave, you are completely right. The LCC got what they wanted for their city retailers by stopping Kirkby, and now they have to make at least a gesture towards the collateral damage — us. Maybe they will feel guilty enough to come up with an actually practical site with some financial support. Without money, it will all simply be more political grandstanding.

We desperately need something, so let’s hope....] I wouldn’t advise anyone to hold their breath — or watch any spaces.

Happy New Year guys, and let’s hope we have at least turned the corner on the pitch. I’m much more hopeful there.

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