No. Pull yourself together lad, you’re better than this...

We went right at Liverpool and yet lost. And I’m sure lots of lower league teams went at their superior opponents, yet no one other than Leeds won... so, do a Moyes and play percentages :)

Totally different kind of game, Des. Leeds had nothing to lose, the public expected them to get hammered and they went out with a attitude, "Well, let's at least try to make some game of it." Man Utd could and should have scored at least 4-5 goals in the 2nd half.

Everton will go to Arsenal with a plan to try nick a point, but we don't want to get hammered and take another blow on our confidence, especially after Carlisle yesterday.

Des, I was thinking the exact same thing while watching.

We always play defensively against the top sides and look at the results, always getting beat and sometimes getting thrashed.

Why not go out there and give it a go?

What have we got to lose?

Plus, we always hear, particularly from Moyes, that we need money, Champions League football etc to match these teams but on the day it’s just 11 men against 11 men. Belief is much more important.

So so true, Des... but many won't like what you say. Moyes is a Grade A Shithouse when it comes to tactics on the football field. If you don't believe me, WHY on earth would any Premier League manager go 4-5-1 at home to mighty Carlisle?

Don't give me injuries either, because if our reserves aren't a match for a Div 3 outfit then they shouldn't be our reserves, should they?

United were rubbish. Leeds gave them loads of chances and they wasted them. The number of times Leeds passed the ball to a United player was horrific and if we had passed that poorly people would be on here slating the players.

Something I have noticed over the years is that teams like United often take their foot of the gas against what they consider to be inferior opposition, and that is when they get beaten. Only one United player put in a proper shift today, God I hate saying this, and that was Rooney; the rest of them were a joke. But you never see that when they play Everton or the rest of the big four.

They must think we are a threat, even if we don’t.

As Nick says, we went right at Liverpool... and yes, we did lose but how wonderfully different to previous encounters. Bily’s open goal miss plus Reina's wonder saves from Cahill and Fellaini could have swung that game.

Mike Oates could easily have substituted Leeds for Everton in his first paragraph. The 6-goal humiliation at Goodison suggests a similar fate is on the cards at the Emirates. That is unless we adopt a different approach. I would rather go down fighting...

I didn’t take too much notice of the game, a cup-tie between the current champions and a third division side (in old money). I saw that the visitors put on a plucky display and got a 1-0 victory. They could have sealed it towards the end, or lost 3-1 if some £100,000 a week players had done their jobs properly.

I believe what we saw today is called the magic of the FA Cup. God help us if we have to be relegated several times and wait for years on end for a chance to get a day in the sun as the plucky underdogs.

ps: Manchester United should count themselves lucky that they are permitted to play in the FA Cup, having previously shown the competition such contempt.

Erm Des, it was a complete one-off. A freak result, the first time Fergie has ever been beaten by lower league opposition. Leeds were well up for it; Man U thought they could just turn up and that would be enough. If they played that game another 100 times, Man U would win every time.

The difference is hunger, really. It wasn’t a complete one off at all — you just saw a side go for the throat with nothing to lose. (I was very, very impressed again by Beckford in particular.)

In the Premier League, too many sides want to pick up a point at best against the Sky Four. Liverpool benefit from this most... possibly the worst Liverpool side in 10-15 years, yet the likes of us will turn up at Anfield and try to keep it tight for 60 minutes before daring to go forward.

All the Sky Four have shown that they have a soft underbelly this season, IF you actually go at them from the off. If you "keep it tight", they break you down as they learn on the training ground.

That’s the difference — under Moyes, we play dour defensive football and celebrate narrow losses against the bigger sides because "we played well". Bollocks to that. We should give them a run for their money, like Sunderland, Burnley etc have done this year.

For final proof, look at the FA Cup final — early goal from Saha, sat back for 88 minutes afterwards and lost easily.

Well then, Lee, if you were right and Leeds played with that hunger every week, they would be back winning the Premier League in no time. The truth is they won't because, 9 times out of 10, the better side will win.

The only reason Leeds had any chance was because Berbatov is a luxury player who tends to just stand around, Evans and Fabio are average Prem players, Gibson and Obertan are Championship standard players and Welbeck is a League 1 player. The team has been based on a solid defence of Ferdinand, Vidic, Evera, and Van der Sar and match winners like Ronaldo and Rooney who tend to carry the rest and win games on their own. Payers like Giggs and Fletcher fill in the gaps.

With only Rooney on the pitch for the majority of the game, Leeds had the best chance of pulling off a shock.

Enough of this talk; now it's time for no ifs or buts opinions.

Do we aim for a low-scoring game, with a draw looked on as a success, or do we try to blitz them from the start?

I am for the blitz.

Doesn’t matter what we think, Dick.

Moyes will only ever go for the jugular when he’s forced into it — like at Chelsea where his more defensive midfield players were injured and he was forced to go 4-4-2. It would be nice to think he was encouraged by that performance and in the absence of Van Persie and Fabregas he would "try to blitz them".

It’ll be interesting next week, Moyes would usually have us playing from back to front thus avoiding being outplayed in the middle of the park. But despite their obvious weaknesses, Heitinga and Neill are not for hoofing it and they are too long in the tooth to change now and Hibbert’s injury may well mean the "Raging Bull" is finally released.

It's all about who’s available, Moyes usually has to have his hand forced to be adventurous. I suspect we may be in for a pleasant surprise next week.

Ian Tunstead, bother doing a bit of research before you think about what Leeds did yesterday. How many games have they lost this season and how are they playing their league football? Man Utd played shite but it doesn’t detract from the fact Leeds played attacking football and showed Man Utd’s defence as what it is; frail and susceptible to mistakes. If you don’t attack a team with any sort of purpose or intent, how the hell are you going to score?

Nick, maybe if Moyes did percentages and realised if we have a go at the top four teams away, one day we will eventually win a game over a course of seven years.

The list this season of teams going there and having a go is endless and a good few have come away smiling.

We’re currently a side that is devoid of fit, in-form strikers. Even if we wanted to go for the jugular, all-out attack just isn’t an option right now.

Two questions:

1. From what I have seen and read, Leeds deployed 4-5-1 formation, with Beckford as a lone striker and Becchio in Cahill’s role, and Manchester 4-3-3 in the latter stages, does this mean that 4-5-1 is a superior one?

2. Couldn’t help but notice that Manchester were in very experimental squad, missing almost their entire back 4 and Van der Saar, and their midfield consisted of youngsters without any Premier League degree. I know that injuries and suspensions don’t matter and are only excuses for Moyes, so I would like to ask whether another dour Scot is past it and is so tactical inept that whenever he has some players missing – Fulham (the entire back 4 again + 2 key midfielders) and Villa (the same), that he is caught like rabbit in lights and can't beat even a League One side. FFS?!?!?

Leeds showed that it can be done. And I wouldn’t even say they rode their luck because they outplayed United and should have been two up before stoppage time anyway.

Moyes would never go to Old trafford in attack mode and with all due respect he only went 4-4-2 at Chelsea because he was literally forced to. He is so negative it is unreal.

You guys are so blinkered its unreal.

Why should we change tactics and do something completely different to normal that has a slim chance of success? The way we have palyed the last few years has been successful far more times than it hasn’t been, but just because a League 1 team win at OT means our whole philosophy needs to change.

What would you then say if we went gung-ho and lost by 5 or 6 — you would be the first to criticise.

We play to our strengths, which against Arsenal at the Emirates doesn’t involve all-out attack, as they are the best counter-attacking team in the country and will slaughter you on more occasions than you might nick a win.

We have had decent performances on a number of occasions (and the occasional good result) against the top 4 in recent years which most people tend to forget, and remember the 6-1 defeat to Arsenal on the opening day (with seriously mitigating circumstances involved).

If you don’t mind, I will stick with the tactics of the man who got us into the top 6 the last couple of seasons rather than a couple of people who watch one game and decide they know better, thanks.

"Des, it was a complete one-off. A freak result, the first time Fergie has ever been beaten by lower league opposition."

Uh. May. Zing.

Come on Ian Tunstead. If you are going to make such claims then please do some research — or dust down that fragile memory. One of the two.

Coventry beat Man Utd at Old Trafford in the Carling Cup 2 seasons ago, Southend beat them 1-0 at Roots Hall in 2006, and York City famously won 3-0 at OT in the first leg on the 1995 League Cup tie (winning 4-3 on agg). While these were all in the League Cup rather than the FA Cup, they do at least provide a precedent.

Gavin, the fact is for all their passing, it was a hoof or long ball over the top that caught Man U out, and to the one Leeds player on the pitch who is potentially Prem standard.

As it happens, the day day Bill Kenwright called Moyes about offering him the Everton job, Moyes was on his way to scout Beckford. Just goes to show Moyes has a good eye for spotting talent.

’’How many games have they lost this season and how are they playing their league football?’’

Erm what league are they in? I doubt they would be doing what they are doing if they were in the Prem.

’’Man Utd played shite but it doesn’t detract from the fact Leeds played attacking football and showed Man Utd’s defence as what it is; frail and susceptible to mistakes.’’

On the day they were shite because they had their reserves out who are shite, which is why they have been found out recently, being beaten 3-0 by Fulham and beaten at home by Villa for the 1st time in many years. If Everton played Man U now, our approach would be very different to how it has been in the past.

Man U are only prooving the obvious — that even the best squads in the world can struggle when put through a bad injury crisis. If you lose most of your back 4 (which is what has happened to us), you do become ’’frail and susceptible to mistakes’’ and if you lose your most creative players (which is what has happend to us), you are not going to create as many chances, which causes your team to play shite. It’s not rocket science.

Sorry, Andrew, I meant to say FA Cup but who takes the League Cup seriously anyway? It is a cup for the reserves. As it happens, apart from a couple of players like Rooney and Berbatov, that was Man U Reserves that got beat by Leeds.

Cheer up lads, I've never met as much depressed people in my life. Any wonder Goodison is so quiet these days. Cheer up, it's 2010 — don't you know it's great being a Toffee.

Des, I’m not envious of a League One side and feel for you if you are.

Ian, "what league are they in" and who was in the draw last night, Man U or them? Not surprised Moyes was scouting him as he looks like a decent player, but where is he playing, Ian, and how long has DM been at Everton?

You admitting it’s not rocket science kind of contradicts your point on it being a one off Ian, you can only play against the 11 players the other side puts out, Leeds did this and irrespective of what league they are in, again irrelevent as they won, and beat Man Utd fair and square by playing attacking football, supposition about how they would fare in the Premier League after one game either way.

Did you go on Saturday Ian? Only have to ask as you might want to think what league Carlisle are in and how close they came to beating us if that shot that hit the crossbar would have gone in, they attacked and for big portions of the game showed us up, Premier League or not.

You misunderstand me, Gavin. When I say it’s not rocket science, I am saying any weakened side including Man U will struggle to perform to their highest level. Man U have been struggling a bit recently because of injuries to key players. Some of the players that have replaced the better players are just not good enough. I would be very surprised of some of their reseves like Welbeck make it at Prem level.

9 times out of 10, the team with the best players will win. However, any team can beat any other on their day. Leeds caught Man U at the right time. Leeds were at full strength, full of confidence and well up for it. Man U on the other hand were only playing 1 or 2 of the best starting 11, they were out of form and weren't really up for it. If you put Man Utd’s best 11 out there, I doubt it would be Leeds in the hat.

DM was scouting Beckford when he was manager of Preston, who are a Championship side, but he was young and potentially Prem standard, I don't understand your point? It's all ifs and buts Gavin, Carlisle hit the bar because of a great save by our keeper, we won fair and square.

How many other giant killings were there this weekend or any other FA cup weekend? That fact shows that they are freak matches that would happen once in every 10 games.

So what are you saying, that we should get the Leeds manager to take over at Everton because he would have us playing attacking football and beating the likes of Man U and Arsenal every game?

No, Ian, what I and several others on numerous threads have said is that they are fed up sick of DM’s one-trick pony way to play football. I can count on one hand the number of times he has not played 4-5-1 and how many times he leaves substitutions until within the last 10 minutes of a game and how many times we have left any player outside our own area when defending a corner, thus any clearance comes straight back as another attack?

Ian, the point I’m trying to make is how predictable DM is and how many managers have seen through the one-trick pony show and are outplaying us and beating us. Percentage football is just one method — not the only method.

Will try not to repeat myself nor score points. These were simply Sunday afternoon musings as I watched a Man Utd home game which was not going to plan.

I admired the approach of the away team and tried to reconcile that with what we would have done in the circumstances. It is certain, in the context of previous encounters in recent years, that we would have struggled to cross the half-way line. That is my belief anyway. I’m sure many of you would accept that. We know this for sure because of our defensive mentality in all away games against Sky Four.

If we approach all such games in the same fashion i.e. defend/don't risk putting players forward, do we not realise that the opposition are also well aware of this? Surely, in order to try and win a game, we must carry a (some) threat to the opposing defence?
Do we?

Gavin there are lots of occasions in many sports including football when a team or individual will not change their approach. Why change a tried and tested formula that has got the desired results? Arsenal and Man U will not change their style of play no matter who they are up against because it works for them. Their players suit the system and it gets the best from their players.

How can David Moyes play 2 up front when he barley has 2 fit and trusted tsrikers at the club?

I also believe our midfield has a lot players more suited to playing in a 5 man midfield, Neville Cahill, osmen and Fellaini.

Who cares if he makes subtitutions in the last 10 mins if it get the results? Yet again Moyes got his substitutions spot on with both changing the game and playing a part in 2 goals. Moyes wants the opposition defenders to be as tired as possible so his subs can have the optimum impact. 2 games on the run it has worked yet you still complain.

Des, for what it’s worth, I fully agree with you: my sentiments entirely. Ian completely misses the point , which is that the entire attacking ethos is foreign to Moyes. We could not set up to play a game like that because Moyes hasn’t got the first clue how to go about doing it. He hasn’t got the right spirit or make-up to coach or inspire attacking football, whether he has the players at his disposal or not.

So no, he won’t be doing anything like that at Arsenal on Saturday — not because it’s something he has considered and rejected, but because it is completely anathema to him, and thus his players are totally incapable of playing like that. For an Everton manager, that, to me, is fundamentally abhorrent.

ps: Ian, I do wish you'd stop writing "Osmen". It looks to me like a bad anagram of 'Semen' and is faintly offensive in this context.

O-S-M-A-N.

Surely not that hard to grasp, is it?

The defeat of Man U by Leeds yesterday is further evidence that the Premier League is not as strong as some people seem to think and that the lesser teams do not need to follow the Big 4 or now the Big 5 or 6 in trying to make the 'big' signings to progress but rather shape a team with good players who will gel together into a great team.

The Premier League is packed with great players but hardly any really good teams and they are found out time and time again by lower division clubs whether they are playing a full strength team or not.

Only Wenger and maybe O'Neill and Hodgson seem to have any idea on how to build a balanced team with a proven system without spending vasts amounts of money.

Michael

Osmen or Osman I don't care, he’s shite, you know who I mean.

Also how can Moyes play attacking football if most of his attacking players are injured? I must be imagining things because when we have had a fully fit squad to pick from, I have seen with my own eyes Everton playing attacking football with the stand-out game being 7-1 against Sunderland.

I agree Moyes tends to be a little cautious (especially when he has no attacking players to pick from) and makes his teams hard to beat, but he will adopt an attacking formation when he NEEDS to. What is wrong with that? Moyes is a defensive-minded manager, he was a defender, what do you expect?! As long as over the course of the season the team progresses, that is the most important thing, which is what this club has done overall with Moyes in charge.

Am I envious of Leeds? No. Absolutely not.

What’s funny is the irony of this post. For Leeds, read Carlisle. For Manure, read Everton. And yet many overlook the fact that the reigning champions of England are out, whilst we have a home draw in the 4th round.

And finally, can anyone please explain to me why they still consider Cahill to be a midfielder? He is a forward. And he played up front with Vaughan. So we did play 4-4-2, only cos some of you still think Cahill is a midfielder, you jump on this as Moyes playing 4-5-1 at home to league 1 opposition.

Ian, nevermind Moyes wanting the opposition to tire out — how about he attacks from the start? I will agree with on one thing though and that is our opinions on Osman.